UK car sales website CarWow drove several electric cars until they ran out of electricity to test ranges with some interesting results

[Fatoy]

Also, just so the US folks can understand my complaints about EV pricing, a Tesla Model X starts from about $85,000 in the USA, but the same car is the equivalent of $109,500 in the UK.

And yes, obviously the Model X is a luxury vehicle, but there are essentially no non-luxury BEV SUVs available here apart from the, fairly small, e-Niro and Kona electric. The EQC, i-Pace, e-Tron etc. are all extremely expensive cars.

 

[danowat]

Also, just so the US folks can understand my complaints about EV pricing, a Tesla Model X starts from about $85,000 in the USA, but the same car is the equivalent of $109,500 in the UK.

And yes, obviously the Model X is a luxury vehicle, but there are essentially no non-luxury BEV SUVs available here apart from the, fairly small, e-Niro and Kona electric. The EQC, i-Pace, e-Tron etc. are all extremely expensive cars.

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I saw an e-pace the other morning, lovely car, googled the price, over £70k, Christ on a bike.

 

[Fatoy]

I saw an e-pace the other morning, lovely car, googled the price, over £70k, Christ on a bike.

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Jaguar really painted themselves into a corner by naming a previous, much cheaper car the E-Pace. The I-Pace is the electric one.

 

[danowat]

Jaguar really painted themselves into a corner by naming a previous, much cheaper car the E-Pace. The I-Pace is the electric one.

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Yeah, lol, the electric one I should have said!

 

[Fatoy]

Yeah, lol, the electric one I should have said!

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Easy mistake to make, given every other manufacturer uses "E" to signify an electric car!

 

[Culex]

I know it was because of costs, but if the Kona was AWD, I would buy one RIGHT NOW!

 

[DrM]

I know it was because of costs, but if the Kona was AWD, I would buy one RIGHT NOW!

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too bad that even new Kona Hybrid is not AWD

We will see when Hyundai announce the next true EV mini SUV

 

[Box]

Watched this a little while ago, the thing that amazed me most was the number of charging stations there are in the UK now, I had no idea.

The fact some of them aren't push-able when they are dead is crazy to me, such an obvious flaw in a car you can't get running again with a jerry can.

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FWIW he mentions at the end of the video if there had been someone sat in the driver's seat it would have been pushable a short distance.

Can anyone explain the Tesla's tow mode to me? It's low-key blowing my mind over here :D

 

[octopedes]

How many miles could a theoretical hydrogen powered car drive before needing new fuel?

The range and charging time of electric vehicles is the one major thing keeping me from making the jump.

 

[Reckheim]

I just came in here to say I love Mat.

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Mat Watson is British national treasure.

 

[Box]

Thanks for the introduction OP. I let the playlist run and got to this drag race one. My mates and I have drag raced on several occasions on some land near here, and watching Mat trying to organise the line from within the car while dealing with a Volvo that won't stay in gear was so relatable :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_R92Obvbfc

E: Over T'd the Mat.

 

[Deleted member 6215]

How many miles could a theoretical hydrogen powered car drive before needing new fuel?

The range and charging time of electric vehicles is the one major thing keeping me from making the jump.

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Hydrogen is just another environmentally unfriendly option pushed by oil companies, it's bullshit.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

How many miles could a theoretical hydrogen powered car drive before needing new fuel?

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If I remember correctly it's about 400 miles for current models. A buddy of mine is developing a new high pressure refueling system with his team which would cut down refueling time significantly, so I'm pretty interested to see where the car industry is heading from here.

 

[octopedes]

Hydrogen is just another environmentally unfriendly option pushed by oil companies, it's bullshit.

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Is it more environmentally unfriendly than gasoline or less?

If I remember correctly it's about 400 miles for current models. A buddy of mine is developing a new high pressure refueling system with his team which would cut down refueling time significantly, so I'm pretty interested to see where the car industry is heading from here.

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That's interesting. I wonder how much fuel would cost compared to gas or electric if it ever made inroads (hard to believe at this point it would)

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Hydrogen is just another environmentally unfriendly option pushed by oil companies, it's bullshit.

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So big oil is pushing... water electrolysis?

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

The only problem with EV's and Mat Watson is that he can't bust out the stick of truth on them.

 

[nib95]

270 miles is enough, but I do worry that constant aggressive driving would destroy the maximum range. For me, as long as my car can do around 150-200 miles even with aggressive driving (the most I commonly do in a single journey), it should be ok, though there are rare times I'll do more than that.

I'm actually considering a Tesla or comparable electric vehicle for my next vehicle purchase, but the lack of sound is killing me. Had a go in a friends 2020 Model 3 Performance, and going from my car which is noisy and constantly pops, bangs and crackles, to something that is so rapid but dead silent, is sort of discomforting and eerie. Almost wish the car played electric engine swoosh and whine sounds or something, much like the Porsche Taycan does.

One aspect of electric cars that isn't talked about much is the cost of insurance, the quotes I had on the Tesla Model 3 and P100D's were super high, far more than comparably priced ICE cars. I guess because of the instant torque and speed, they're more prone to user error accidents or something, even vs powerful ICE cars. Hell, I got a cheaper quote on insurance for the Mercedes E63S than I did a Model 3 Performance, which is strange to me given the value difference.

 

[mescalineeyes]

The only problem with EV's and Mat Watson is that he can't bust out the stick of truth on them.

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He will find a way to poke them I am sure.

 

[Titik]

Or if you go on long trips, live in the middle of nowhere, need a larger vehicle, have no or limited supercharger acess, live in an apartment etc... You know, that stuff.

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How often does a regular person go on long trips? Live in the middle of nowhere? The apartment stuff I can give you, but I live In one and I was able to survive with my Fiat 500e just plugging into a regular wall outlet.

For all those other instances, just rent a car. I thought I would do that too but I never ended doing that because I decided to just take the bus/train/fly for intercity travel more than 200 miles. I also have a lot of friends and family that usually has a gas car if we decided to go on longer trips...

 

[Kernel]

Jaguar really painted themselves into a corner by naming a previous, much cheaper car the E-Pace. The I-Pace is the electric one.

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Funniest is the Audi e-Tron.

Given what etron means in French I guess they don't expect to sell too many in France.

So big oil is pushing... water electrolysis?

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Because they know we will be burning fossil fuels for a long time before they can make any significant amount of hydrogen via electrolysis.

And if you're going to make solar power to make hydrogen and then transport it and then store it why not just put that solar energy into the car??

Oh wait because they want us to keep visiting pumping stations and pay a shitload for hydrogen instead of charging for peanuts at home.

 

[Ryno23]

270 miles is enough, but I do worry that constant aggressive driving would destroy the maximum range. For me, as long as my car can do around 150-200 miles even with aggressive driving (the most I commonly do in a single journey), it should be ok, though there are rare times I'll do more than that.

I'm actually considering a Tesla or comparable electric vehicle for my next vehicle purchase, but the lack of sound is killing me. Had a go in a friends 2020 Model 3 Performance, and going from my car which is noisy and constantly pops, bangs and crackles, to something that is so rapid but dead silent, is sort of discomforting and eerie. Almost wish the car played electric engine swoosh and whine sounds or something, much like the Porsche Taycan does.

One aspect of electric cars that isn't talked about much is the cost of insurance, the quotes I had on the Tesla Model 3 and P100D's were super high, far more than comparably priced ICE cars. I guess because of the instant torque and speed, they're more prone to user error accidents or something, even vs powerful ICE cars. Hell, I got a cheaper quote on insurance for the Mercedes E63S than I did a Model 3 Performance, which is strange to me given the value difference.

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So my Model 3 is AWD not performances. But you absolutely need to shop around, some insurance companies just do not play nice with Tesla.

I had Geico... They wanted $250 a month for basic coverage. Went with progressive because for absolute max coverage in every category it runs me $80 a month for my Model 3...

How often does a regular person go on long trips? Live in the middle of nowhere? The apartment stuff I can give you, but I live In one and I was able to survive with my Fiat 500e just plugging into a regular wall outlet.

For all those other instances, just rent a car. I thought I would do that too but I never ended doing that because I decided to just take the bus/train/fly for intercity travel more than 200 miles. I also have a lot of friends and family that usually has a gas car if we decided to go on longer trips...

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Like have people seriously not looked at the Supercharger map? There is essentially nowhere you can't travel in a Tesla... And long trips are much much cheaper because even with the inflated rate of supercharging vs home charge, it's still probably at least half the price of gas.

 

[Mengy]

I watched the vid the other day. I knew the Tesla would of course win and by a big margin, but the Kia really surprised me to be honest.

Good video. It's sad how far ahead Tesla is over everyone else though.

 

[CelestialAtom]

When the hell did Kia get into the electric car game? I had no idea.

 

[Kernel]

When the hell did Kia get into the electric car game? I had no idea.

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They've been in it since 2015, the Soul EV was pretty good as far as a compliance car goes. The 2020 model goes really far now.

The Niro is pretty good I hear, good luck finding one though, they don't make a lot of them.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Because they know we will be burning fossil fuels for a long time before they can make any significant amount of hydrogen via electrolysis.

And if you're going to make solar power to make hydrogen and then transport it and then store it why not just put that solar energy into the car??

Oh wait because they want us to keep visiting pumping stations and pay a shitload for hydrogen instead of charging for peanuts at home.

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Hydrogen has advantages in range, refuel/recharge time and is still cheaper/easier to store than electric energy in most cases.

 

[raYne_07]

How often does a regular person go on long trips? Live in the middle of nowhere? The apartment stuff I can give you, but I live In one and I was able to survive with my Fiat 500e just plugging into a regular wall outlet.

For all those other instances, just rent a car. I thought I would do that too but I never ended doing that because I decided to just take the bus/train/fly for intercity travel more than 200 miles. I also have a lot of friends and family that usually has a gas car if we decided to go on longer trips...

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Pretty much anyone who lives in the midwest or in areas with long commutes (texas, Florida for example) or who drives for work where they can rack up hundreds of miles a week. There are plenty of places that don't have adequate charging support where there aren't any superchargers around or limited numbers. What's more viable for some people, fueling up an ICE in 2 minutes or waiting 20 minutes or more for a charger to free up and charging for another 20+ minutes? And that's before you get to said supercharger location. Glad the apartment charging worked out for you, but it's not doable for people that live in multi story apartments.

They are just not feasible for everyone.

 

[CelestialAtom]

They've been in it since 2015, the Soul EV was pretty good as far as a compliance car goes. The 2020 model goes really far now.

The Niro is pretty good I hear, good luck finding one though, they don't make a lot of them.

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I will definitely be keep an eye out for the Soul EV then, as I want to move to an electric vehicle soon, but the costs are still pretty high. I'm so excited for the advancement of these cars and the many benefits they provide!

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I watched the vid the other day. I knew the Tesla would of course win and by a big margin, but the Kia really surprised me to be honest.

Good video. It's sad how far ahead Tesla is over everyone else though.

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Tesla Model 3 LR winning wasn't surprising at all. Kia being able to compete with Tesla in sheer terms of range however was.

German premiums showed what happens if you stick your head into the sand for too long. Mercedes being the first who had to pull out was embarasing enough for a brand which claims "the best or nothing!", but even worse was BMW's performance. Because they didn't participate in the first place since they don't have a decent BEV w/o range extender except that ancient i3.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Tesla Model 3 LR winning wasn't surprising at all. Kia being able to compete with Tesla in sheer terms of range however was.

German premiums showed what happens if you stick your head into the sand for too long. Mercedes being the first who had to pull out was embarasing enough for a brand which claims "the best or nothing!", but even worse was BMW's performance. Because they didn't participate in the first place since they don't have a decent BEV w/o range extender except that ancient i3.

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To be fair, it is kinda stupid to compare luxury SUVs to sedans and compacts. But it's also stupid to launch these cars as your first "real" EVs.

 

[danowat]

Tesla are in a different league, it wasn't that long ago that people were giving it all "Pfftt Tesla, electric will never catch on", now everyone is playing catch up.

 

[Deleted member 8852]

Tesla Model 3 LR winning wasn't surprising at all. Kia being able to compete with Tesla in sheer terms of range however was.

German premiums showed what happens if you stick your head into the sand for too long. Mercedes being the first who had to pull out was embarasing enough for a brand which claims "the best or nothing!", but even worse was BMW's performance. Because they didn't participate in the first place since they don't have a decent BEV w/o range extender except that ancient i3.

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I do like the i3 though, it's just overpriced for a compact city car. It's what got me interested in electric vehicles the first time I saw one driving around.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

To be fair, it is kinda stupid to compare luxury SUVs to sedans and compacts. But it's also stupid to launch these cars as your first "real" EVs.

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It's not that stupid since all the cars which participated had comparable ranges (on paper), and that test was about ranges, only. So, I think it was a fair test, nothing more you can do in a non-experimental setting than they did to get comparable (!) results.

That said, once enough BEVs are on the market I'm sure there will be hatchback- / SUV-only tests at some point.

 

[Deleted member 6215]

So big oil is pushing... water electrolysis?

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The hydrogen produced by natural gas or other fossil fuels absolutely is.

Bonus points granted when producing the hydrogen needs more energy than the resulting hydrogen actually contains.

 

[SpecX]

Tesla are in a different league, it wasn't that long ago that people were giving it all "Pfftt Tesla, electric will never catch on", now everyone is playing catch up.

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I'm honestly glad Tesla came along and have done as well as they have. All automakers have had this mindset and then put out shitty electric cars or hybrids to prove their point.

Tesla is the only one that took the idea, put the concept in a normal or actually desirable designed car, and had the vision to build the infrastructure to support their vehicles.

I'm hoping the other automakers finally make a huge push in this market as they have the means to finally start pushing ICE vehicles out and making electric more the standard, but they seriously need to stop focusing on short term gains which will ultimately bite them all in the ass.

 

[Kaseoki]

Can't watch the video yet but I would be interested on how they performed the tests. Lights off, constant speed etc. My boss has a Tesla and he had to drive a constant speed or the car would not make its destination.

Still I would prefer hydrogen power cars instead.

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Earth doesn't have enough Hydrogen to have everyone driving cars with it. Creating hydrogen itself requires a lot of power so not really efficient.

 

[BAD]

There's too many cars here for me to do the research (Also it's late where I am lol) so I'll just post the percentage of claimed range that comes from the video.
Mercedes - 75% of claimed range
Audi - 81%
Nissan - 87%
I-pace - 76%
Kia - 90%
Tesla - 78%

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I feel like this is the real ranking. Who cares if a car that claims it gets 180 miles doesn't go as far as a car claiming 400? They don't really compare. But it's very telling to see that you don't get your money's worth on Tesla battery size.

 

[tangeu]

Hopefully this is a good place to ask: I haven't been following too closely but does anyone know if there are any rumblings on the horizon of battery tech that would make an EV viable for someone like me who takes semi regular 400 mile drives? (in a cold climate)

 

[turbobrick]

Hydrogen has advantages in range, refuel/recharge time and is still cheaper/easier to store than electric energy in most cases.

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This. Hydrogen does have advantages. I dont think its the future for passenger cars though. However I could see it getting used in other applications like semi trucks, as the fast refueling time would be a big advantage. Or other industrial applications.

 

[danowat]

Hopefully this is a good place to ask: I haven't been following too closely but does anyone know if there are any rumblings on the horizon of battery tech that would make an EV viable for someone like me who takes semi regular 400 mile drives? (in a cold climate)

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I listened to a radio program about battery tech last year, they were talking about sodium batteries, but I think the tech is like 10 years away from being consumer tech.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

I don't see how you can own an electric car if you don't own a house with a garage that you can add a charger to.

 

[Ryno23]

I feel like this is the real ranking. Who cares if a car that claims it gets 180 miles doesn't go as far as a car claiming 400? They don't really compare. But it's very telling to see that you don't get your money's worth on Tesla battery size.

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Now that is just a ridiculous statement when Tesla is so much more efficient, they're arguably the only company you are getting your money's worth for the battery size you are paying for. One test is not any sort of ranking it's a sample of 1 and a fun snapshot... But there's a hundred things that effects range like temperature, wind direction, going uphill/down hill, flooring it vs driving conservative, blasting heat, how much regen you are doing etc... That's why EPA is the gold standard that everyone agrees on to use. Tesla uses EPA rating to calculate range in vehicle so you can get a live snapshot if you're driving is more or less efficient than the rated range over the last 5, 15, and 30 miles and you can adjust accordingly to "get your money's worth"

Note that's chart is somewhat out of date for Taycan, it came in at 201 miles EPA he had the Porsche estimate of 250

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Bonus points granted when producing the hydrogen needs more energy than the resulting hydrogen actually contains.

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That's called energy storage. Feel free to show me viable losless alternatives.

 

[Lucreto]

Earth doesn't have enough Hydrogen to have everyone driving cars with it. Creating hydrogen itself requires a lot of power so not really efficient.

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Lithium car batteries only work for about 5 years before they need to be replaced. A growing number of car dealership refuse to take electric cars as trade ins if the car is 2 years or older. These batteries also can't be recycled.

 

[danowat]

Lithium car batteries only work for about 5 years before they need to be replaced.

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That is just not true, my Prius is 8 years old, still the original battery, still over 90%, there are Prius taxis with 300-400k miles on them on the original packs.

 

[Ryno23]

Lithium car batteries only work for about 5 years before they need to be replaced. A growing number of car dealership refuse to take electric cars as trade ins if the car is 2 years or older. These batteries also can't be recycled.

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That is completely bullshit. Tesla batteries for example are rated right now for 500,000 miles and their next generation for 1 million miles. Not many people drive 500k in 5 years lol Also the batteries can be fully recycled and are in crazy demand for wrecked/salvaged vehicles, you are spreading FUD.

 

[Marshall]

Lucredo quite literally lying and spreading FUD. How are your Tesla shorts working out for you you fucking loser?

 

[Priapus]

So big oil is pushing... water electrolysis?

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As of 2018, the majority of hydrogen (∼95%) is produced from fossil fuels by steam reforming or partial oxidation of methane and coal gasification with only a small quantity by other routes such as biomass gasification or electrolysis of water.[6][7] Around 8GW of electrolysis capacity is installed worldwide, accounting for around 4% of global hydrogen production. Developing affordable methods for producing hydrogen with less damage to the environment is a goal of the hydrogen economy. Electrolysis of water using electricity produced from fossil fuels emits significant amounts of CO2.

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Not saying hydrogen doesn't have a future but we are not nearly there yet.

 

[plagiarize]

I hope no one in the US is using those percentages, cause our range standards here are much more realistic (149 for a base Leaf US rating, 168 for a base Leaf UK rating).

I comfortably match or exceed my vehicles EPA rated 58 mile range. I've gone above the UK rated 70 mile range in perfect conditions, but this time of year that's absolutely beyond what it can do.

 

[tangeu]

I listened to a radio program about battery tech last year, they were talking about sodium batteries, but I think the tech is like 10 years away from being consumer tech.

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Thanks, that's kinda what I thought. Being in the market for a car next year at the latest I'll be sticking with my original idea of Prius prime plugin hybrid.

 

[Mengy]

Lithium car batteries only work for about 5 years before they need to be replaced.

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Wlhat kind of bullshit is this? LOL

I know several people with older Model S's and they all have the original batteries, and all are over 5 years old.