• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

MrCarter

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,509
The goverment that fucked up pretty much everything covid related approves a vaccine within 8 days while the others take 3-4 weeks seems totally legit

That's not how it works. As long as they went through the right approval processes just like the vaccine went through preliminary stages of tests then that's all that matters. If this works as well as we expect then I'm glad they approved this as quick as possible.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
that right there is a dictatorship

Whilst I don't think any vaccine should be made compulsory for the average person (far better for it to be done via consent), it's a bit of a different matter when the nature of your work brings you into contact with extremely vulnerable people.

If you travel to certain parts of the world, you're required to have a vaccine.

I don't think that's a dictatorship - just a public health measure.

Frankly, if one was so opposed to a vaccine that they'd refuse to have it, then they just have the option of working in a different field.

That's not how it works. As long as they went through the right approval processes just like the vaccine went through preliminary stages of tests then that's all that matters. If this works as well as we expect then I'm glad they approved this as quick as possible.

Yes, the MHRA have said that they started preparations on this in June.
 

Kyonashi

Member
Oct 24, 2017
864
UK
Very sus of this, as some others have mentioned. With the loosening of regulations due to Brexit and the incompetency shown by the government in all other respects I have little faith this rush-to-market is the product of innovation but rather cutting corners.

I'd desperately love to be wrong but it very much feels like the Tory government knew they needed a win and were willing to take dangerous risks for the PR of it all.
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,957
UK leading the charge is some top horse shit, all we've done is give the world a lesson in how not to handle a pandemic
 

MrCarter

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,509
Saying that immunising yourself against the raging pandemic should be necessary before treating vulnerable people isn't dictatorship, its simply common sense.

Awful lot of FUD being spread by you in this thread.

Yeah it's weird take. I'm not sure which health care worker wouldn't get the jab.

I'm kinda envious of UK health workers and politicians right now.

Despite the shit show of the tories flailing about during the pandemic, on this day, I am slightly proud of the U.K. This would help millions of people (mainly the vulnerable) get back to some sort of normalcy.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Very sus of this, as some others have mentioned. With the loosening of regulations due to Brexit and the incompetency shown by the government in all other respects I have little faith this rush-to-market is the product of innovation but rather cutting corners.

I'd desperately love to be wrong but it very much feels like the Tory government knew they needed a win and were willing to take dangerous risks for the PR of it all.

Way I see it is that it would be one heck of a risk for any government to take for a bit of PR.

Besides, it'll only work if people choose to have it - that won't happen if concerns start emerging because of any corners being cut.

So then they'd have a situation of a) the vaccine not being safe, and b) a lack of significant uptake
 

Video Kojima

Banned
Apr 5, 2020
2,541
BionTech is owned and run by a Turkish-German Muslim couple.

British trying to take credit for the vaccine is unbelievable.
 

MaffewE

Member
Feb 15, 2018
936
Very sus of this, as some others have mentioned. With the loosening of regulations due to Brexit and the incompetency shown by the government in all other respects I have little faith this rush-to-market is the product of innovation but rather cutting corners.

I'd desperately love to be wrong but it very much feels like the Tory government knew they needed a win and were willing to take dangerous risks for the PR of it all.
Well, within the next four weeks or so, the US and EU will also be deciding on their approvals. And unless you're over 80 or in a care home, or severely clinically at risk, you won't be getting it before that. So if they give the okay too, then does that help?

If they'd approved the AstraZeneca one today, I'd have agreed with you. But not so much on this one.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,642
Very sus of this, as some others have mentioned. With the loosening of regulations due to Brexit and the incompetency shown by the government in all other respects I have little faith this rush-to-market is the product of innovation but rather cutting corners.

I'd desperately love to be wrong but it very much feels like the Tory government knew they needed a win and were willing to take dangerous risks for the PR of it all.
I'd buy this take if no other regulatory body was anywhere near sanctioning this, but it's going to be getting sign-off around the world very, very soon.
 

WhovianGamer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,033
The smallpox vaccine that eradicated smallpox had less testing and was less safe than the vaccines being tested currently.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
This is the same brit government that decided to let kids starve cuz of "reasons"

They're fucking brain dead.

Well, they relented due to public pressure.

But any backlash to a dodgy vaccine would be monumental in comparison.

Also worth pointing out that this based on scientific research and is not a policy decision.

(I do get your overall point though).
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
1,134
1. At medical school I had to get a shit tonne of vaccinations (and proof of the ones I'd already had) just to be allowed into any clinical environments. If that means dictatorship we've been living in it for a while.

2. Legit surprised at the amount of anti-vax rhetoric popping up on here, especially now some have decided it's politically convenient.
 

Kyonashi

Member
Oct 24, 2017
864
UK
Way I see it is that it would be one heck of a risk for any government to take for a bit of PR.

Unlike Brexit?

Well, within the next four weeks or so, the US and EU will also be deciding on their approvals. And unless you're over 80 or in a care home, or severely clinically at risk, you won't be getting it before that. So if they give the okay too, then does that help?

Like I said, I'd love to be wrong. If it ends up being affected and keeps this at-risk people safe, I'll happily eat my words. But there have been no signifiers in recent years that the current government in power is efficient or well-organised, so news like this makes me raise an eyebrow first and foremost.

I'd buy this take if no other regulatory body was anywhere near sanctioning this, but it's going to be getting sign-off around the world very, very soon.

You may be right and it's down to the fact that the research bodies doing the most work on it happen to be British universities - in that case it becomes more a thing of the current party-in-power taking credit whilst also underfunding those research and medical facilities which is additionally insulting. That would still mean the vaccine could be effective which is positive though.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,755
You know I'm generally first in the queue for some Tory bashing but this isn't the time for it. This is a really important step forward and not a sly political move.
 

Snarfington

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,933
2. Legit surprised at the amount of anti-vax rhetoric popping up on here, especially now some have decided it's politically convenient.

Yep. This shit is a plague and I don't really want to see it here, it's very disappointing. As rollouts start around the world I think this site is gonna need a clear policy on handling of antivax talking points.
 

Alien Bob

Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,498
It's okay, the UK deserves a win. Let them have it. It'll probably be the only one for the next decade or so.
 

Deleted member 4367

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,226
1. At medical school I had to get a shit tonne of vaccinations (and proof of the ones I'd already had) just to be allowed into any clinical environments. If that means dictatorship we've been living in it for a while.

2. Legit surprised at the amount of anti-vax rhetoric popping up on here, especially now some have decided it's politically convenient.
There's been idiot anti vaxxers here since March.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,755
1. At medical school I had to get a shit tonne of vaccinations (and proof of the ones I'd already had) just to be allowed into any clinical environments. If that means dictatorship we've been living in it for a while.

2. Legit surprised at the amount of anti-vax rhetoric popping up on here, especially now some have decided it's politically convenient.

Not good enough. Deleted.
 
Last edited:

MaffewE

Member
Feb 15, 2018
936
You may be right and it's down to the fact that the research bodies doing the most work on it happen to be British universities - in that case it becomes more a thing of the current party-in-power taking credit whilst also underfunding those research and medical facilities which is additionally insulting. That would still mean the vaccine could be effective which is positive though.

Wait, are you thinking of the wrong vaccine? Because this one has nothing to do with the UK - developed by a German firm, following research by not-British scientists, distributed by a US company, from depots in Belgium. The only thing we've done is approved it.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,574
You may be right and it's down to the fact that the research bodies doing the most work on it happen to be British universities - in that case it becomes more a thing of the current party-in-power taking credit whilst also underfunding those research and medical facilities which is additionally insulting. That would still mean the vaccine could be effective which is positive though.
This was funded by the german goverment and made by german-turkish scientists. You're mixing the vaccines up.
 

Timmm

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,896
Manchester, UK
UK poliEra has always had a hardcore of extreme left posters and unfortunately conspiracy theories are rife in that community. Corbyn's own brother has been leading anti mask protests. Conspiracy theories and Anti Vax rhetoric isn't just a right wing problem.

It's disappointing but not really surprising considering anti Semetic conspiracy theories were allowed to take root in the Labour party under Corbyn's leadership. Anti vax rhetoric isn't a huge leap from there once you're already on your way down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.

And yet its Garfield the shy-Tory doing these conspiracy theories
 

carlosrso

Member
Oct 27, 2017
828
Ipatinga, Brazil
Congratulations on UK. Unfortunately we don't have the structure in brazil to conserve this vaccine throughout the country (3rd world problems) but it is good to see a light in the end of the tunnel.

I know he is a POS but just to commemorate the ocasion here is:

 

8bit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,390
Very sus of this, as some others have mentioned. With the loosening of regulations due to Brexit and the incompetency shown by the government in all other respects I have little faith this rush-to-market is the product of innovation but rather cutting corners.

I'd desperately love to be wrong but it very much feels like the Tory government knew they needed a win and were willing to take dangerous risks for the PR of it all.

It's apparently been fast-tracked for approval through EU law, which will no longer apply to the UK after Jan 1st. Approvals after this sound as if they would be more complicated due to Brexit, not less.
 

Maxximo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
User Warned: Insensitive Commentary
Should be mandatory for health care workers.

As a medical doctor i'm happy the brits are gonna beta test it for us. Good luck!
 

MaffewE

Member
Feb 15, 2018
936
Back at the beginning of this year, I could never have foreseen the sheer hatred I'd have for the bastardization of the term 'beta test' by December.

Seriously. Everyone. Stop it.
This is not an 'early access' game. It's not 'awaiting a patch', or 'needing the bugs to be ironed out'.
This is actual real life, looking to protect real people from real disease, real pain and real death.

Sorry, I understand that some just use such terms to put a bit of distance in between them and the pandemic, so as to cope better with it mentally. But there's the potential that such wording, such terminology could have a real impact in harming the flow of any vaccination process.

In my life, my parents, step-dad, wife and sister-in-law are all going to be in this phase (supply issues pending). They're not 'beta testers', they're people who will now hopefully be less likely to die.
 
Last edited:

HMD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,301
2. Legit surprised at the amount of anti-vax rhetoric popping up on here, especially now some have decided it's politically convenient.

I think people are rightfully apprehensive about mRNA vaccines, I would take the Oxford vaccine over the mRNA vaccines if I had the choice, purely because it's not an mRNA vaccine.

Please read:
edwardnirenberg.medium.com

mRNA Vaccines and COVID-19

The anti-vaccine disinformation machine is tireless and with everything happening with COVID-19, a reasonable person without specificā€¦
 
Last edited:

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
And yet its Garfield the shy-Tory doing these conspiracy theories

What theories am I peddling? Just said NHS workers should not be forced to vaccinate if they choose not to. Not really sure how that is a terrible opinion.

In fact knowing this board if the tories had turned round and said all nhs stuff must take vaccine or not work the rhetoric would change.

Should they vaccinate if they have access to vulnerable people. Sure, but should they be forced to. I don't believe they should
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Not my fault IF they rushed the approval process. From my strictly personal point of view i'm glad we have some time to see a greater number of results from practical use.

Of course i hope everything goes the right way.
Well my wife will be one of the first who gets this as a nurse. But of course it's fine to talk about it like it's the day one drop of AC Valhalla because you're a medical doctor.
 

Singher

Member
Apr 10, 2018
300
I think people are rightfully apprehensive about mRNA vaccines, I would take the Oxford vaccine over the mRNA vaccines if I had the choice, purely because it's not an mRNA vaccine.

Jesus Christ. Care to explain why? Are you gonna back this up with research or just use gut feelings
 

Singher

Member
Apr 10, 2018
300
What theories am I peddling? Just said NHS workers should not be forced to vaccinate if they choose not to. Not really sure how that is a terrible opinion.

In fact knowing this board if the tories had turned round and said all nhs stuff must take vaccine or not work the rhetoric would change.

Should they vaccinate if they have access to vulnerable people. Sure, but should they be forced to. I don't believe they should

NHS workers are already forced to vaccinate. These fucking vaccines are as safe as any other vaccine. This is just getting annoying.
 

Vashetti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,567
What theories am I peddling? Just said NHS workers should not be forced to vaccinate if they choose not to. Not really sure how that is a terrible opinion.

In fact knowing this board if the tories had turned round and said all nhs stuff must take vaccine or not work the rhetoric would change.

Should they vaccinate if they have access to vulnerable people. Sure, but should they be forced to. I don't believe they should
NHS workers have access to vulnerable people, hence why they're required to take other vaccinations.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,472
What theories am I peddling? Just said NHS workers should not be forced to vaccinate if they choose not to. Not really sure how that is a terrible opinion.

In fact knowing this board if the tories had turned round and said all nhs stuff must take vaccine or not work the rhetoric would change.

Should they vaccinate if they have access to vulnerable people. Sure, but should they be forced to. I don't believe they should

Man, most NHS workers aren't allowed to wear anything above the tiniest plain earrings, or even a wristwatch because it causes an unacceptable risk of an infection, let alone skip a vaccine for a disease that brought the entire world to a standstill.

This board is widely pro-vaccination because that's what keeps people safe, not because a tory said it or not. The problem is tories are typically against things that help the common people which then causes this board to be against them, not the other way around.
 

kradical

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
UK poliEra has always had a hardcore of extreme left posters and unfortunately conspiracy theories are rife in that community. Corbyn's own brother has been leading anti mask protests. Conspiracy theories and Anti Vax rhetoric isn't just a right wing problem.

It's disappointing but not really surprising considering anti Semetic conspiracy theories were allowed to take root in the Labour party under Corbyn's leadership. Anti vax rhetoric isn't a huge leap from there once you're already on your way down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.

Garfield is a Tory, but any excuse to attack the left I guess (bonus points for somehow weaving anti semitism into your attack).
 

HMD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,301
Jesus Christ. Care to explain why? Are you gonna back this up with research or just use gut feelings

Because it's new, not yet entirely proven technology. I don't think that's a very radical take. I personally know MDs that share this view. I don't doubt that it's safe and as I said I would 100% take whatever vaccine is available, but if I had the choice I would take the more conventional vaccine.

Please read:
edwardnirenberg.medium.com

mRNA Vaccines and COVID-19

The anti-vaccine disinformation machine is tireless and with everything happening with COVID-19, a reasonable person without specificā€¦
 
Last edited:

laoni

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,725
In fact knowing this board if the tories had turned round and said all nhs stuff must take vaccine or not work the rhetoric would change.

Tbh I don't think it would? I dunno about how it is in the UK, but here in Australia, just studying anything health related (at my university at least) is enough that you need to supply evidence of your vaccinations (requiring the full schedule + yearly flu) by having them as an adult and getting them signed off and dated or by showing evidence of immunity by titre, as well as a TB test. For my course I also have to seek out and be vaccinated for one of the ones that isn't on the regular schedule. Every year I need to provide evidence of having my flu shot.

Ensuring that you're fully immunised is, well, kind of part of the responsibility of being a health care worker, both for your patients and for yourself.
 

MaffewE

Member
Feb 15, 2018
936
I think people are rightfully apprehensive about mRNA vaccines, I would take the Oxford vaccine over the mRNA vaccines if I had the choice, purely because it's not an mRNA vaccine.

A quote from another of the articles from 'person more clever than me', which should hopefully ease such concerns to some level:
Much of the concern about mRNA vaccines has had to do with their novelty, but the reality is that this is a fairly extreme mischaracterization. The first instance of naked mRNA inducing an immune response was demonstrated in 1990 with mice and research into the concept has been ongoing since. Under ordinary circumstances it can take decades for a vaccine to make it from bench to bedside so it isn't especially surprising that we do not have them in routine use yet. The major problem with nucleic acid vaccines in general has not been their safety, but their efficacy. It's quite challenging to get any nucleic acid vaccine reliably in a cell and doing the things you want it to do, especially RNA. However, some studies have demonstrated very promising results. There has for instance been an mRNA vaccine tried that encoded rabies envelope glycoprotein which demonstrated protection against rabies in pigs upon challenge with the virus supplied directly to the brain and excellent antibody responses as well.

Another concern raised has been the idea that mRNA can somehow alter the host's genome. That would actually be super cool and be huge for gene therapy (and I could finally give myself the giant bat wings I've always wanted) but this is not so. This is ordinarily impossible except if there is also a reverse transcriptase enzyme present that produces DNA from the RNA template, which is how retroviruses work. There is no such risk with any mRNA vaccine candidate. mRNA vaccines act entirely within the cytosol of the cell- they do not go near the nucleus where all the DNA is. That's actually a major advantage of RNA-based vaccines over DNA ones.

Another concern I've heard raised is the possibility of long-term consequences that do not present until years after vaccination. This is the ever-present specter that the anti-vaccine movement likes to toss out with every vaccine and is honestly a mythical entity. While vaccines can vanishingly rarely produce conditions that become chronic (e.g. Guillain-Barre syndrome), these manifest soon after vaccination. As I've discussed before, Shoenfeld's syndrome has no good evidence to support it. mRNA inside the cell is extremely short-lived. A great deal of work has been done to come up with new ways in mRNA pharmacology to make it last longer without having to give another dose and much progress has been made in that regard but nonetheless, mRNA is an incredibly unstable molecule. In fact it can degrade itself if exposed to even a little bit of heat or base and for that reason has to be stored at- 80 Ā°C (which is why no mRNA vaccine candidate is likely going to be the fix for COVID-19 in lower and middle income nations).

Some individuals have also zeroed in on the importance of interferon responses in the action of mRNA vaccines and raised questions about autoimmunity. The fact of the matter is that interferons represent an extremely effective and ubiquitous mechanism to deal with viral infection and while aberrant interferon signaling does play a role in some autoimmune diseases one has to hold this in context: virtually every viral infection you encounter is going to elicit the production of interferons. This is how we evolved to deal with viruses. If somehow you find yourself in the position that you are on the brink of autoimmune disease and all that's needed is some interferon to kick that into gear (and we have no way of knowing who such individuals are) then the reality is avoiding an mRNA vaccine is going to do essentially nothing to modify your risk of developing that autoimmune disease. You are bound to develop an infection at some point which will produce those interferons.

With COVID-19 specifically, there has been concern raised based on previous vaccines against coronaviruses for Th2(/Th17)-mediated immunopathology due to a vaccine. This is definitely a valid safety concern. The absolute worst thing that could happen from a vaccine is that it not only fails to prevent the disease but actually causes more severe disease upon encounter with the pathogen. But here there is excellent news: mRNA vaccines produce a highly-Th1 polarized immune response with minimal Th2 or Th17 activation. Thus given what we know about COVID-19 and vaccines against its related predecessors, it is quite rational to pursue an mRNA vaccine-based platform.
Note it was written pre-trial results, hence the disclaimer at the beginning.
edwardnirenberg.medium.com

mRNA Vaccines and COVID-19

The anti-vaccine disinformation machine is tireless and with everything happening with COVID-19, a reasonable person without specificā€¦
 
Last edited:

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
There is no reason to mistrust the vaccine, as far as we have seen it will be working as intended and both the EMA/FDA should give approval soon as well, just not as fast as the MHRA. It is the rollout and the chosing of the people to vaccinate where the Tories might fuck up.