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Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,145
Washington, D.C.
Realizing I'm never going to understand any Immortals praise. The game is competent and that's about it.

Immortals is too full of shit to feel like you're ever exploring or "discovering" anything. Nothing is interesting or special, because every 30 seconds you're finding something else. Doesn't work for me at all.
I mean, it's a Ubisoft game, so it's getting praise from people who like Ubisoft games.

I was gifted the game (since they don't get money from me) and I gave it a shot. It's better than most, as the world isn't as huge as the recent AC games. The combat is really fun and a lot of the shrines vaults have really good challenge. But it's just so bloated. Like, every four feet there's a puzzle or a vault or a race or a chest or some ambrosia. It still suffers from that "quantity over quality" approach. The writing is honestly pretty bad, too. The humor feels like a watered down of that Sunset Overdrive style of humor. Zeus feels like he was written by a high school student or something.
 

Zeroth

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
Realizing I'm never going to understand any Immortals praise. The game is competent and that's about it.

Immortals is too full of shit to feel like you're ever exploring or "discovering" anything. Nothing is interesting or special, because every 30 seconds you're finding something else. Doesn't work for me at all.
Not sure what the balance is, because one of the biggest criticisms of BotW is that it had too little things to find (as in, the rewards for exploration are not tangible other than the Shrines). Some folks prefer that minimalist approach as they like to explore for the sake of exploring, while others prefer to have incentives to explore.

Would a bigger, more diverse world with spread out rewards match what you want?
 

Cats

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
TBH I stopped playing Genshin because I felt like the open world was getting diminished down to gacha mechanics and resets, and started to shed off any semblance of similarity to BotW to go full gacha once you got far enough in.
Yeah, I agree. 1-25 adventure rank is fine since you're a greenhorn and everything seems new and cool as new content flows fast, after that though the big gacha grind starts and the veil is pulled away. It's almost 100% just waiting on dailies and burning stamina to carry you to AR50 when you can actually start caring about builds and gear seriously and the open world really loses all sense of purpose as "the big picture" is shown to you: all the gear in chests is pointless and you just went to get to domain farming asap, along with no real point to anything other than just getting a meta fire team to do abyss if you care enough about that current end game.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
TBH I stopped playing Genshin because I felt like the open world was getting diminished down to gacha mechanics and resets, and started to shed off any semblance of similarity to BotW to go full gacha once you got far enough in.
This is why I dropped it too. The world is pretty, but it loses its luster fast once you get on the gear and leveling treadmill. When you do the same few tedious boss fights every week (fuuuuuuuck that dragon) and spend the rest of your time burning stamina grinding resources or domains, it stops feeling fun real fast. The open world stops being appealing because you very quickly find that almost all the rewards in the world are largely inconsequential compared to boss and domain farming.

To top it all off, the way the world level goes up with you means that your character growth feels like running in place. Start off with hard combat encounters, grind to get stronger until it gets easier, and then when the world levels up, you're right back to struggling again. It feels like you're getting thrown back to square one to grind some more.
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,077
Seattle
I chose the term "vulnerable people" in that sentence for a reason. To clarify, I mean people who can't afford to get exploited by the game; whether that's by addiction or gambling, it doesn't matter. It sucks.
And I'm trying to clarify for you that those vulnerable people aren't the ones funding F2P games, the wealthy are. And that's true whether you're talking about gatcha games, or those with straightforward microtransactions.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,255
God, I want to like Genshin but I just can't over the character designs

It's too much anime and waifu stuff for me.

That shit sells though, I'm not dumb enough to deny it and there's so much art of said waifus
 

Dynamic3

Member
Oct 31, 2017
527
Unless it changes later on, everything I "discovered" in Genshin was just a bundle of experience, currency, and/or crafting materials.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,058
I honestly felt like the open world in Genshin felt pretty sterile...Valhalla's feels more alive, but to be fair I'm not loving that one either.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
Yep. Immortals would have been improved 1000% if it got rid of the Farsight
Hell no

directionlessness isn't a good thing. Just means I'm googling trying to find shit. Immortals doesn't quite have the same spark that BotW has but it fixes so many frustrating things like mapping, meaningful progression, better fast travel, usable mounts, no weapon durability, etc.

I don't want meander under the guise of exploration. That's just wasted time. Give me some guidance at least. You can still have a well formed world that feels natural and not like it was generated by an algorithm (see Xenoblade, GTA, RDR)
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
Assassins Creed games really are just a checklist of stuff you need to do, huge world but mostly boring and soulless. Honestly I remember playing the first few AC games (1 and 2) and when moving to a new area the architecture was considerably unique, I played Origins and thought that everywhere looked mostly the same (except for the Roman stuff).

I just finished Days Gone that has very little activities in the Open World, but I thought they were cool and helped you progress in the game (gain trust/moneyz from camps), I dont remember doing anything useful in Origins outside of the Main Story.
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,906
Germany
I mean, it's a Ubisoft game, so it's getting praise from people who like Ubisoft games.

I was gifted the game (since they don't get money from me) and I gave it a shot. It's better than most, as the world isn't as huge as the recent AC games. The combat is really fun and a lot of the shrines vaults have really good challenge. But it's just so bloated. Like, every four feet there's a puzzle or a vault or a race or a chest or some ambrosia. It still suffers from that "quantity over quality" approach. The writing is honestly pretty bad, too. The humor feels like a watered down of that Sunset Overdrive style of humor. Zeus feels like he was written by a high school student or something.

I feel like for me Ubisoft games at this point are a lost cause. Their design philosophy just is the antithesis of engaging to me. The result is usually an overwhelming boredom.
 

Sea lion

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
903
Lol at "Immortals has too many things to see and puzzles to do!" complaint.

Its better than meandering about in BotW for 15 mins only to find a Korok seed. The rewards in Immortals always benefit the player as they are currency for different upgrades. That and the fact puzzles aren't limited to the vaults like BotWs are to shrines and are dotted about the overworld is awesome. It has really encouraged my exploration. And no one is forcing you to use far-sight. I dont and I'm having a great time.

Despite all the content present it also manages to capture that sense of isolation and serene atmosphere too with the ruined villages and lush fields and forests and wildlife. Its a great game and I hope BotW 2 takes some lessons from it.
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,819
if anything, Ubisoft should learn from Breath of the Wild. Almost everything Genshin does that deviates from BotW is to its detriment.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
13,329
I mean, it's a Ubisoft game, so it's getting praise from people who like Ubisoft games.

I was gifted the game (since they don't get money from me) and I gave it a shot. It's better than most, as the world isn't as huge as the recent AC games. The combat is really fun and a lot of the shrines vaults have really good challenge. But it's just so bloated. Like, every four feet there's a puzzle or a vault or a race or a chest or some ambrosia. It still suffers from that "quantity over quality" approach. The writing is honestly pretty bad, too. The humor feels like a watered down of that Sunset Overdrive style of humor. Zeus feels like he was written by a high school student or something.
Yeah, absolutely agree with all of your points. The story stuff is particularly obnoxious. It doesn't feel like something that could be unironically written in the last decade, but somehow it was.
Not sure what the balance is, because one of the biggest criticisms of BotW is that it had too little things to find (as in, the rewards for exploration are not tangible other than the Shrines). Some folks prefer that minimalist approach as they like to explore for the sake of exploring, while others prefer to have incentives to explore.

Would a bigger, more diverse world with spread out rewards match what you want?
Personally, I didn't have any issue with BotW. Exploring found you interesting and unique locations, hidden shrines, unique armor, strong weapons, quests, crafting/upgrade items, inventory expansion items etc. I understand that wasn't enough for some people, but it was for me. I certainly wouldn't be against there being "more substantial" rewards, whatever those might be, but I didn't feel like the world was empty because I didn't get a 2% speed boost mod, or whatever, when I found a unique little pond. The distance between things made finding them exciting, rather than a complete non-event, which is what literally everything feels like in Immortals.

It's part of the reason I don't get why it's compared to BotW so much, there are clear differences in design philosophy. BotW constantly draws your eye to locations with the way the landscape is designed and structures are placed, and in the case of shrines, a scatter of light sources. Immortals is the equivalent of someone banging a drum and strobing multicoloured floodlights in your face in comparison.

It does simply come down to preference at some point, though. I'll take TES or BotW style exploration over the Vegas strip of flashing lights that is Immortals open world.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,293
Realizing I'm never going to understand any Immortals praise. The game is competent and that's about it.

Immortals is too full of shit to feel like you're ever exploring or "discovering" anything. Nothing is interesting or special, because every 30 seconds you're finding something else. Doesn't work for me at all.
Agreed, the game feels artificial and shallow (not to mention unoriginal) in everything it does. It's decent for a Ubisoft game, but compared to its peers it's pretty mediocre; it's completely lacking in nuance.
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
I like Genshin Impact but how exactly is it not a checklist of activities again? The amount of unique content in that game is incredibly low, while the majority of your playthrough will be spent killing the same enemies for chests or arrowing three balloons or completing time/enemy challenges.

It's addicting, but I find it fundamentally similar to games you'd describe as checklist-athons. And that's even before you hit the gacha wall.
 

Incite

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,407
I'm still waiting on controller support for Genshin or a cross save from PlayStation.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
13,329
Lol at "Immortals has too many things to see and puzzles to do!" complaint.

Its better than meandering about in BotW for 15 mins only to find a Korok seed. The rewards in Immortals always benefit the player as they are currency for different upgrades. That and the fact puzzles aren't limited to the vaults like BotWs are to shrines and are dotted about the overworld is awesome. It has really encouraged my exploration. And no one is forcing you to use far-sight. I dont and I'm having a great time.

Despite all the content present it also manages to capture that sense of isolation and serene atmosphere too with the ruined villages and lush fields and forests and wildlife. Its a great game and I hope BotW 2 takes some lessons from it.
It sounds like you enjoy the busy work, though. And that's cool, sometimes I do, too. I liked AC Odyssey and that game is 100% busy work, but that's not going to engage or satisfy everybody.

I personally don't enjoy running into a puzzle, or collectible, or enemy encounter, or challenge, or whatever else, every minute. I enjoy the down time, I enjoy the sense of finding something unique in the world because I had a suspicion about an object or area, not because I know if I walk forward for 30 seconds I'll find the next activity to check off. Looking across a littered landscape, wether in-game or on a map menu, and seeing 8 different things to go to doesn't engage me, it just makes me feel tired.

It's a totally different kind of experience.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Hell no, stay away from gatcha trash, no matter how muted the predatory mechanics are, its there to exploit unsuspecting players.

They have Immortal Fenix, just build upon it by using BotW or RDR2 as its baseline for open world design.
 

Yam's

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,040
I don't really get this statement. Genshin Impact has a few quests were they really use the world as a puzzle, but once you've completed these 2-3 quests, the rest is the usual checklist we get from most open world games. With very few enemies variation and most of the same puzzles spread out everywhere. I loved discovering the maps in Genshin, specially the second one, but it doesn't come close to the content an Assassin's Creed has to offer. And I don't only mean the quantity, but its variety too. I don't get how one can say that Valhalla's world is soulless when each area has its identity and bunch of side quests to flesh out the story and world. Even ruins are carefully crafted to tell a story of what happened, which lacks in Genshin were the lore is still very lackluster for now. Exploration in Genshin is also constantly interrupted by having to change a member of your group to clear a chest (which was something I hated in Xenoblade 2 too).

Genshin makes a strong first impression, but the more you delve into its world, the more you realize it's still lacking a lot of things to compete with the big open world games.
 

spartan112g

Banned
May 5, 2018
813
Immortals is just alright. I dropped it and went back to Genshin because the world is just much better. I love Greek mythology, but Immortals feels empty and lifeless in comparison to Genshin with enemies that aren't interesting and pretty boring combat.
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,755
I don't get how one can say that Valhalla's world is soulless when each area has its identity and bunch of side quests to flesh out the story and world. Even ruins are carefully crafted to tell a story of what happened, which lacks in Genshin were the lore is still very lackluster for now.

I wasn't going to say anything, but that last part is patently untrue. Genshin in fact has one of the best worldbuilding in any open world RPG. Every place in Genshin, be it a little village, be it a particularly pretty pond or a strangely formed mountain has its own story and lore. Each and every NPC you meet too has a backstory and their place in this world. You naturally learn it by just keeping your eyes open (great enviromental story telling), chatting to NPCs, doing story or side quests, reading the many books, letters or guides. There are literally travel guides and history books of Genshin's world to be found in the game. It is so detailed and rich, that even someone like I, who is very interested in it all, can't possibly soak it all up.
 
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Stuggernaut

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,902
Seattle, WA, USA
I tried Genshin, and I tried to like it, but the character designs and voices just are not my thing. Running around the world was nice and gave me that "BOTW" vibe I was craving. But in the end, Genshin just made me go replay BOTW.

Then Immortals came out and all the stuff I disliked about Genshin was gone (well, maybe not bad character voices lol), while all the stuff I did like was there. The world was big but not stupid big, the combat was fun (although controller mapped goofy) and the story was interesting while also silly. Most of all, it was (is) fun. I get the complaints, but it's still fun. I think if people customized the HUD more they would have more enjoyment maybe? Like I don't use the scanner/compass. I just organically wander around and find things (also the constant bombardment thing is exaggerated and really depends where you are on the map lol).. stuff you can find twinkles in the light so you can see it, blue spirits hint at secrets, plenty of alternative methods to explore.

I've learned though that you can't tell someone to like a game lol... they just have to try it. OP give Immortals a shot if you can ever get it cheap or find a demo, it's worth a peek. Otherwise, happy you are loving Genshin!
 

Yam's

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,040
I wasn't going to say anything, but that last part is patently untrue. Genshin in fact has one of the best worldbuilding in any RPG. Every place in Genshin, be it a little village, be it a particularly pretty pond or a strangely formed mountain has its own story and lore. Each and every NPC you meet too has a backstory and their place in this world. You naturally learn it by just keeping your eyes open (great enviromental story telling), chatting to NPCs, doing story or side quests, reading the many books, letters or guides. There are literally travel guides and history books of Genshin's world to be found in the game. It is so rich, that even someone like I, who is very interested in it all, can't possibly soak it all up.

You are right I completely forgot about the books as I didn't bother continuing reading them after a while, except for the journals when they were tied to side quests. As for your other points, I don't agree at all. The two areas are completely separated from each other and events from one don't affect its neighbour, most quests develop characters rather than the world and while most npcs are charming, I wouldn't say it's among the best worldbuilding a rpg has ever done ( I mean it cannot compare to the likes of Fallout: New Vegas, Dark Souls, Dragon Age, Planescape, Mass Effect). Now I didn't read most of the books, so I'll take your word for it, but I didn't find a cohesive and complex world while playing Genshin. It's a very fun sandbox with really great vistas, but that's about it, for me.
 

King_Moc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,126
Realizing I'm never going to understand any Immortals praise. The game is competent and that's about it.

Immortals is too full of shit to feel like you're ever exploring or "discovering" anything. Nothing is interesting or special, because every 30 seconds you're finding something else. Doesn't work for me at all.

Everything is 200m away from multiple other objectives, and the farsight picks up every object within 1km, even through walls. Its like they tried to copy BOTW, but just made the same map hoovering simulation as normal, only now you have to manually fill the map in first.

Also, everything is delivered as a joke, but whoever wrote it has literally no sense of humour.
 

Pharaoh

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,675
Man, I will never understand all the praise BoTW gets. That game has very little unique content to support the huge map. It's not much better than Ubi's signature bloated design.
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,755
You are right I completely forgot about the books as I didn't bother continuing reading them after a while, except for the journals when they were tied to side quests. As for your other points, I don't agree at all. The two areas are completely separated from each other and events from one don't affect its neighbour, most quests develop characters rather than the world and while most npcs are charming, I wouldn't say it's among the best worldbuilding a rpg has ever done ( I mean it cannot compare to the likes of Fallout: New Vegas, Dark Souls, Dragon Age, Planescape, Mass Effect). Now I didn't read most of the books, so I'll take your word for it, but I didn't find a cohesive and complex world while playing Genshin. It's a very fun sandbox with really great vistas, but that's about it, for me.

It is not just the books. Please don't try to paint it now as just some dry lore dump in text, which would be poorly done worldbuilding. The story and lore of Genshin's world is woven into everything you see, hear, read, experience in the world. You just have to go with open eyes and an open mind through the world, otherwise you will miss a lot of details.
Up in the mountains, where some other traveller before you apparently took rest, you'll easily miss the fallen tree trunk next to a cliff, which is just perfectly placed to sit down, relax and enjoy the beautiful view. Not enjoying that view, you'll likely miss that when looking closer, and when applying some imagination, the golden flower fields of the valley below look like the scales of some giant snake lying in the valley and wrapping around the mountain. Whithout this awakening your curiosity, you are probably not curious enough to speak with the people in the nearby village about it. Without ever speaking to them, you'll never learn from one old man, that in legend this valley is supposed to be the resting place of a giant dragon, slain thousands of years ago by the God of this land, turned to stone and forming the valley and the mountain. If you never learned of that legend, it won't ring a bell when a character casually and factually mentions to you fighting a dragon up in the mountains to the north some time ago. When this doesn't raise any suspicions...and so on. You get the gist.
Genshin's world is packed with worldbuilding like this. Sometimes there's on top of that also history books, novels, fairy tales or even travel guides, really well written by the way, fleshing out the game world even more.
 

golguin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,757
The open world of Genshin Impact doesn't have the same awe and mystery of BOTW, but it has aspects that BOTW can take and improve upon. I will say it's the 2nd best open world environment to explore. It has that same crafted feel of BOTW that games like Red Dead 2 don't have.

I will also say that as a FTP person I haven't spent any money on the game and yet I have around 14 characters and three 5 stars. I haven't felt any limitation or lack of content be staying free.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,994
yeah

the incredible soundtrack with a live orchestra and multiple mini-docs focusing on the fact that they're using orchestras from all over the world
the fully voiced story with new content being added every week
the amazing trailers they put out that are expertly cut
the translation from 2d -> 3d that, while not arksys level, is gorgeous
the reaction-team based gameplay that isn't really seen in any other fOr ReAl rpg
the ability to play cross platform on pc/mobile seamlessly

nothing should be taken

scum game played by scum people, such scum
 

DDrift

Member
Jun 9, 2019
733
Hmmmm AC's Open World shouldn't be similar to the Real World? So I guess this puts some limits on that.
 

Yam's

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,040
It is not just the books. Please don't try to paint it now as just some dry lore dump in text, which would be poorly done worldbuilding. The story and lore of Genshin's world is woven into everything you see, hear, read, experience in the world. You just have to go with open eyes and an open mind through the world, otherwise you will miss a lot of details.
Up in the mountains, where some other traveller before you apparently took rest, you'll easily miss the fallen tree trunk next to a cliff, which is just perfectly placed to sit down, relax and enjoy the beautiful view. Not enjoying that view, you'll likely miss that when looking closer, and when applying some imagination, the golden flower fields of the valley below look like the scales of some giant snake lying in the valley and wrapping around the mountain. Whithout this awakening your curiosity, you are probably not curious enough to speak with the people in the nearby village about it. Without ever speaking to them, you'll never learn from one old man, that in legend this valley is supposed to be the resting place of a giant dragon, slain thousands of years ago by the God of this land, turned to stone and forming the valley and the mountain. If you never learned of that legend, it won't ring a bell when a character casually and factually mentions to you fighting a dragon up in the mountains to the north some time ago. When this doesn't raise any suspicions...and so on. You get the gist.
Genshin's world is packed with worldbuilding like this. Sometimes there's on top of that also history books, novels, fairy tales or even travel guides, really well written by the way, fleshing out the game world even more.

This has more to do with you falling in love with the game though. Because with this mindset, I'm pretty sure any game can be the greatest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,762
Toronto, ON
I like Genshin a lot, incredibly impressed by this free game and how amazing it looks and plays. Story is also quite good for anime fantasy JRPG type stuff, nice worldbuilding and memorable characters. The gacha mechanics are really bad, it's unfortunate...those drop rates, whew.

Yeah I mean the thread is about Ubisoft

SarcasticMammothBuzzard-size_restricted.gif
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
There are far to much focus testing and tuning in Ubisoft games.

Its honestly surprising that nobody has able to figure out what made Zelda great and tried to replicate it.

I've only briefly played Genshin Impact but BOTW was so good because it steered you in the world naturally using iconic looking things in the geography and the shrines.

This gave a far better and bigger sense of exploration than anything Ubisoft has ever done which basically provides you with a big map full of Icons that you mindlessly travel too plus a world full of empty lifeless NPC's to provide some fake level of immersion. It makes for a rather boring experience where you just taxi yourself between missions.

This is not exactly something that would present itself in focus testing though.
 

Efejota

Member
Mar 13, 2018
3,750
I haven't played any open world games from Ubisoft, but the way Genshin Impacts gateways progress did upset me... You basically have Paimon telling you to go back when approaching certain areas for no good reason and taking control away from you for a moment, so I have fallen from a couple of cliffs because of that. I prefer how Botw locks it by stamina and missions.
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,077
Seattle
I haven't played any open world games from Ubisoft, but the way Genshin Impacts gateways progress did upset me... You basically have Paimon telling you to go back when approaching certain areas for no good reason and taking control away from you for a moment, so I have fallen from a couple of cliffs because of that. I prefer how Botw locks it by stamina and missions.
Those are zones that don't exist. Essentially, the edge of the map (for now).
 

chipperrip

Member
Jan 29, 2019
433
And I'm trying to clarify for you that those vulnerable people aren't the ones funding F2P games, the wealthy are. And that's true whether you're talking about gatcha games, or those with straightforward microtransactions.

Oh, sorry, I interpreted your other post in a harsher tone because I didn't get why you were addressing funding so specifically. You're still either handwaving my clarified issue, or you missed the ocean for the whales (apologies to Joeyro).