• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,801
Right, so we can agree it's just a company/publisher buzzword, and that it doesn't mean that games like "The Witcher 3" or even "Age of Empires 2" were LIIIIIIVE SERVICE games because they had expansions?

:)
Funny that you bring up AoE2. The Definitive Edition for now is definitely being ran as a service. It may be a short-lived one as they transition to working on AoE3 DE, nevertheless, they are doing events and challenges and holidays and what not right now. :)
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,561
Remember how The Witcher 3 recieved not only 2 expansion packs, but a ton of free DLCs and updates?
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,314
Despite this, folks are still gonna throw money at ubisoft for the next ghost recon like nothing happened, they wont learn, we continue to get burned.
Tbf, Breakpoint was a major reason for Ubisoft's recent stock hit and multiple games getting delayed.

If anything, it's Ubisoft who learned a lesson.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,134
Remember how The Witcher 3 recieved not only 2 expansion packs, but a ton of free DLCs and updates?

CDPR deserves mad kudos for treating players like humans. but at the same time that kind of game allows for it

won't be surprised if two years from now i load up cyberpunk mulitplayer with a bunch of ubisoft-ish buy this now prompts
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,102
Chicago
Ubisoft massacred Ghost Recon with this game, I really don't see a way back into my heart no matter how drastic their changes are, they quite literally spoiled the franchise wholesale.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,314
I wonder if that is why they baking Watchdogs 3 a little bit more?
I believe they said it was cause they're having trouble with the "legion" system. The rest of the game delays seem to be a response to Breakpoint since all of them were supposed to release in the first half of this year. Gods and Monsters was supposed to release this month.

I don't usually like Ubisoft cause I think their approach to game design is too cynical, but I'm glad to see the company trying to satisfy GR fans with this immersive mode.
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
I still can't understand how a solid 8/10 game became a 5/10 thing. I was excited to get the game at some point in the future and was surprised the reviews were that terrible.
 
My biggest surprise entering this thread was learning that there are players thinking that Wildlands is better than breakpoint. Like what?!

You can be mad all you want towards Ubisoft and the way they are handling the game post-release, but let's not be crazy and say that the first game was in any way better than it's sequel.

I just bought the game in the latest sale on PSN, and after having completed the 3rd act of the main mission, I for sure think it's miles better than wildlands. The gameplay alone is leaps and bounds better.
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
My biggest surprise entering this thread was learning that there are players thinking that Wildlands is better than breakpoint. Like what?!

You can be mad all you want towards Ubisoft and the way they are handling the game post-release, but let's not be crazy and say that the first game was in any way better than it's sequel.

I just bought the game in the latest sale on PSN, and after having completed the 3rd act of the main mission, I for sure think it's miles better than wildlands. The gameplay alone is leaps and bounds better.

i couldn't wholeheartedly disagree more.
 
i couldn't wholeheartedly disagree more.

Welp, I guess thats it folks, let's wrap it up, lebGun goesnt agree.
But seriously, at least do explain why you don't agree.

The driving alone is better than in wildlands. The added gameplay features like it's camouflage prone position and being able to carry injured players are enough to make the game feel similar yet better and improved. I don't see how you can genuinely prefer the first one. It's either nostalgia messing with you, or you're being dubious for the sake ot it because of a simple reason like not liking enemy drones.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
My biggest surprise entering this thread was learning that there are players thinking that Wildlands is better than breakpoint. Like what?!

You can be mad all you want towards Ubisoft and the way they are handling the game post-release, but let's not be crazy and say that the first game was in any way better than it's sequel.

I just bought the game in the latest sale on PSN, and after having completed the 3rd act of the main mission, I for sure think it's miles better than wildlands. The gameplay alone is leaps and bounds better.
Wildlands PVP is worlds better than Breakpoint PVP. It's honestly heartbreaking how bad Breakpoint PVP was, because Wildlands' Ghost War was probably the best 3rd person tactical shooter experience in the past decade. The decision to carry your SP class into PVP alone completely ruined how the game plays.
 
Wildlands PVP is worlds better than Breakpoint PVP. It's honestly heartbreaking how bad Breakpoint PVP was, because Wildlands' Ghost War was probably the best 3rd person tactical shooter experience in the past decade.

"Wildlands PVP is worlds better"

Oh here we go, let's just judge a whole game based on it's pvp, even though the game is meant to be experienced as a coop PVE in the first place.

I have not played the PVP in either game. When I judge a game, I do so with the intent of playing the game the way it's first meant to be played. A pvp mode in itself isn't even something I'd usually recommend unless it's game is geared towards it in the first place, which breakpoint isnt.

"worlds better" hehe, that's funny considering PVE has a huge world to kick around in and do activities in, whereas PVP...
 

TinTuba47

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,794
XX
-
My biggest surprise entering this thread was learning that there are players thinking that Wildlands is better than breakpoint. Like what?!

You can be mad all you want towards Ubisoft and the way they are handling the game post-release, but let's not be crazy and say that the first game was in any way better than it's sequel.

I just bought the game in the latest sale on PSN, and after having completed the 3rd act of the main mission, I for sure think it's miles better than wildlands. The gameplay alone is leaps and bounds better.

I don't hate Breakpoint, but I much prefer Wildlands. The squad mechanics are cool. The world is better, feels more lived in. No stupid annoying drones. The enemies aren't bullet sponges, the villains in Wildlands are a lot better.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
"Wildlands PVP is worlds better"

Oh here we go, let's just judge a whole game based on it's pvp, even though the game is meant to be experienced as a coop PVE in the first place.

I have not played the PVP in either game. When I judge a game, I do so with the intent of playing the game the way it's first meant to be played. A pvp mode in itself isn't even something I'd usually recommend unless it's game is geared towards it in the first place, which breakpoint isnt.

"worlds better" hehe, that's funny considering PVE has a huge world to kick around in and do activities in, whereas PVP...
I wasn't judging the whole game...
I was just saying the PVP is much better.

Also, considering the majority of Wildlands' post-release content was geared towards PVP, you can bet your ass it was supposed to be a big part of the game.

That said, I think Wildlands' PVE was better as well. I wrote a lot about it in the Breakpoint OT on release, but the tl;dr is that they actually reduced the variety of side activities available, and dumbed down a lot of the gameplay (see: taking down convoys in Breakpoint vs Wildlands).
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
I bought it since I had a coupon, Gold Edition ended up for 15$ in my local currency. Hopefull they can turn this around, its not like the game was some Anthem situation.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,777
Detroit, MI
Spending all this time and resources on game's like this or anthem seem ill advised since the console gen is almost over.
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
Welp, I guess thats it folks, let's wrap it up, lebGun goesnt agree.
But seriously, at least do explain why you don't agree.

The driving alone is better than in wildlands. The added gameplay features like it's camouflage prone position and being able to carry injured players are enough to make the game feel similar yet better and improved. I don't see how you can genuinely prefer the first one. It's either nostalgia messing with you, or you're being dubious for the sake ot it because of a simple reason like not liking enemy drones.

The map is significantly less diverse than the previous one. The driving is even worse than before. Gun play is poorer. The drones suck. The crafting sucks. But most importantly, tracking missions and making me go to that terrible ass base and forcing me to walk (can't run) to pick up missions is god awful.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,276
Yeah no shit, like every other game.

So The Witcher 3 was a GAAS title?

Yes. That's the industry term.

You can make up whatever junk criteria you want, but the industry defines GAAS as a title that is developed and monetized beyond the initial point of sale. That is, you're not finished with the title once it goes gold, you're finished once you move the last dev off the team.
 
OP
OP
SJRB

SJRB

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
4,861
"Wildlands PVP is worlds better"

Oh here we go, let's just judge a whole game based on it's pvp, even though the game is meant to be experienced as a coop PVE in the first place.

I have not played the PVP in either game. When I judge a game, I do so with the intent of playing the game the way it's first meant to be played. A pvp mode in itself isn't even something I'd usually recommend unless it's game is geared towards it in the first place, which breakpoint isnt.

"worlds better" hehe, that's funny considering PVE has a huge world to kick around in and do activities in, whereas PVP...

You are unnecessarily hostile. There's no need for that.
 

Real

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,419
My biggest surprise entering this thread was learning that there are players thinking that Wildlands is better than breakpoint. Like what?!

You're in a thread describing the blowback Ubisoft is getting for postponing an emergency content fix for a game that has been objectively panned for not being as good as its wildly hot selling successor. Breakpoint is bad. So bad, in fact, that it forced them to change their entire studio's approach to development.

Let's try that again. Ghost Recon: Breakpoint is so bad, that it forced Ubisoft to delay THREE OTHER GAMES.

Wildlands wasn't flawless, but there's a reason it was one of the best selling games of the year when it came out and this one was sold for $15 within a month of release.
 
Last edited:

RyuCookingSomeRice

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2020
1,009
Yes. That's the industry term.

You can make up whatever junk criteria you want, but the industry defines GAAS as a title that is developed and monetized beyond the initial point of sale. That is, you're not finished with the title once it goes gold, you're finished once you move the last dev off the team.

Honestly I'm done debating this stupid term. It's just a made up word by publishers to easily get it across to investors that they are continue to invest in a single title beyond the initial development.

That doesn't retroactively make games like Age of Empires 2 which had a few expansions, a Game as a Service. Lol.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,409
FIN
Ubisoft massacred Ghost Recon with this game, I really don't see a way back into my heart no matter how drastic their changes are, they quite literally spoiled the franchise wholesale.

Ghost Recon was massacred last-gen with those atrocious Advanced Warrior(?) shooters. What IP really was stopped being a thing long, long time ago.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,728
My biggest surprise entering this thread was learning that there are players thinking that Wildlands is better than breakpoint. Like what?!

You can be mad all you want towards Ubisoft and the way they are handling the game post-release, but let's not be crazy and say that the first game was in any way better than it's sequel.

I just bought the game in the latest sale on PSN, and after having completed the 3rd act of the main mission, I for sure think it's miles better than wildlands. The gameplay alone is leaps and bounds better.

The few things Breakpoint does better are negated by the terribly implemented, superficial, completely undesired RPG elements, and the lack of meaningful improvements in key areas. The driving is better? Maybe, but frankly, it's still shit. The game shipped with bugs that were already fixed in Wildlands for god's sake. The AI was improved in a stealth scenario, but in a going loud scenario it was somehow.... worse. The story, despite being hyped up as "dramatically improved", as Ubi even casted Jon Bernthal to play the villain, was fucking terrible anyway. Better than the first? Shit.... I don't even think that. See, the first game has the most vanilla story of all time, but at least the game knew how to get to the point. In Breakpoint, there's just so much completely uninteresting, meandering dialogue. Even dialogue choices at times, but why? Who even wanted that?


The RPG bloat just felt like bait for microtransactions, because it sure as shit didn't feel like it added anything interesting to the gameplay. At least with something like AC Odyssey, which also got accused for leveraging its RPG elements for microtransactions, felt like it was actually developed with the RPG elements as its core design element. With Breakpoint, it just felt tacked on. People were arguing what enemy levels actually affect because it was so unclear from the actual gameplay. Also, adding a bunch of bullet sponge machine enemies is probably the last thing anyone wanted.

Oh, and the game also shipped with no AI teammates. I have no idea if they have been added yet, but come on. Obviously these games are intended to play in coop, but taking away the feeling of being in a squad, is just a really bone headed move. There should have been an option to rely on squadmates or just go lone wolf mode with assist drones from the start.

And then there's the game world - no doubt that Breakpoint's world can look incredible, but it's got nowhere near the grounded, lived in feel of Bolivia. A massive step back if you ask me.

Wildlands was nowhere near the perfect game, but it was easily the best base clearing coop game. And it still is, I'd say.


"Wildlands PVP is worlds better"

Oh here we go, let's just judge a whole game based on it's pvp, even though the game is meant to be experienced as a coop PVE in the first place.

I have not played the PVP in either game. When I judge a game, I do so with the intent of playing the game the way it's first meant to be played. A pvp mode in itself isn't even something I'd usually recommend unless it's game is geared towards it in the first place, which breakpoint isnt.

"worlds better" hehe, that's funny considering PVE has a huge world to kick around in and do activities in, whereas PVP...

Your attitude to people replying to your post is leaving a lot to be desired, honestly.... PVP was a hugely praisd aspect of Wildlands. I haven't played it myself, but I've seen lots being disappointed with the Breakpoint implementation.
 

60fps

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
3,492
I wonder where this live service thing will go in general, at least for games. Maybe it will eventually implode? You're basically paying full price for an incomplete game and it lies in the hands of the developers if the game you paid for turns out well in the long run or not.

If you think about it rationally it's kind of crazy.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,144
Imagine posting in this thread trying to spin this as negative coming from Ubi, the single AAA company that actually does fix their games in situations like that.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,144
Do you want to present the case why companies should wait for the deadline to announce the delays?
Do you want to present the case why it matters? It's not a new game release people have preordered or anything, it's a fix. Patches get delayed. This is the most absurd nitpick I've ever read, every other company wouldn't fix the fucking game in the first place.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Do you want to present the case why it matters? It's not a new game release people have preordered or anything, it's a fix. Patches get delayed. This is the most absurd nitpick I've ever read, every other company wouldn't fix the fucking game in the first place.

Yeah, people might be anticipating the patch and make plans for it. Fuck any company which delays game/expansion/dlc/patch at the release date. Simple as that: it is a move which shows poor communication with the customer.

Bethesda is working on F76, EA is working on BF2/Anthem, Capcom turned things around with SFV, Sony has improved Days Gone and GTS, Microsoft salvaged SoT and MCC. Even Konami has worked on their Metal Gear Survival updates. Could you tell me which companies don't fix their games?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,311
It's not like the dev team can just go talk about the game whenever they want. Whenever there are any updates, it has to go through a few departments for approval. I'm sure they're not happy they'll probably have to crunch more trying to fix a game while its player base throws a lot of angry comments at them.

It's fair to be angry/upset about the game not being up to expectations, but it's not like this is what they wanted either.

Well, no one is saying that "Games as a Service" means "Games as a Live Service." I really don't understand how terrifying this term is for you folks. It's just an easier way to describe products. Yes, any game that has content updates after release is a GaaS. That doesn't retroactively make The Witcher 3 or Age of Empires 2 bad games. Marvel's Spider-Man was GaaS, but God of War wasn't. With that description alone, you can say the first game had DLC, and the other didn't.

What you're talking about when you say "live service" is Live Ops. That is an entire department inside studios, and they're in charge of creating daily/weekly/monthly content. And these help support the more traditional form of content (DLC and expansions), as well as patches. But not every game needs that model.

To sum up, every game with Live Ops is GaaS, but not every GaaS has Live Ops.
^
 

DoughBoi

Member
May 7, 2019
115
can't help but to feel that it might be too late to salvage Breakpoint anyway. I think the game was far too much of a turn off from the get go to a lot of people.

As a long time Ghost Recon fan, there's nothing to save here in my opinion. The very core of this title was off-putting and no amount of updates could change that. I'd much prefer that they take the L and correct course with the next GR title.
 

2CL4Mars

Member
Nov 9, 2018
1,710

Yes "they were much are"

Anyways, surely you can point me to a Triple A publisher that are as good at releasing mediocre games and than fixing them after the fact as Ubisoft?

Let's see
Assassin's creed Unity
The Crew, with the sequel being another mediocre game, or has it been "fixed"?
Rainbow six Siege
Ghost Recon Wild Lands
For Honor
The division
& any other you want me to add?

And now Breakpoint or rather it's their latest one, but in a year it's going to be great!
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,144
Yeah, people might be anticipating the patch and make plans for it. Fuck any company which delays game/expansion/dlc/patch at the release date. Simple as that: it is a move which shows poor communication with the customer.

Bethesda is working on F76, EA is working on BF2/Anthem, Capcom turned things around with SFV, Sony has improved Days Gone and GTS, Microsoft salvaged SoT and MCC. Even Konami has worked on their Metal Gear Survival updates. Could you tell me which companies don't fix their games?
Poor communication would imply they didn't communicate it. This is reaching. And no, none of those companies REALLY fixed a game like Ubi has besides MS on SoT and MCC, and MCC took literal years. Sea of Thieves didn't even really need fixing, it just needed more content. Pretending SFV or Days Gone or F76 are in the league of stuff like Siege is preposterous.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Poor communication would imply they didn't communicate it. This is reaching. And no, none of those companies REALLY fixed a game like Ubi has besides MS on SoT and MCC, and MCC took literal years. Sea of Thieves didn't even really need fixing, it just needed more content. Pretending SFV or Days Gone or F76 are in the league of stuff like Siege is preposterous.

Poor communication implies that it is done poorly, it was communicated at the worst possible time.
No communication would imply that it wasn't communicated.

You said companies don't fix their games, only Ubisoft does, it was a factually false statement. Just admit that it is a bullshit statement and stop digging these subjective brackets of what a "fixed" game is disqualifying other games.
 

Okii

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
I'm excited to see what this patch offers, can't have anymore bad press than they already have so they should take their time and make it right.