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Oct 25, 2017
16,258
Cincinnati
3000 is a massive number. Hell, it's more employees than the entirety of Bethesda/Zenimax (2,300 employees) spread over 9 or so gaming studios.



I honestly have no idea how that would work exactly, but it's a possibility.



I don't think they do, especially for such a small number of problem games. I'd much rather they put those man hours and resources towards new games.

Well, the hope is that they would work more like the Xbox BC team and do more than just PS4, I also don't think it would have much interference with making new games as the people on that team would probably have a different skill set than someone making new games from scratch.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
I don't think they do, especially for such a small number of problem games. I'd much rather they put those man hours and resources towards new games.
Do you think ms has its first party developers working on bc testing?

Sony creating a dedicated team to bc would be a good thing imo.
 

Deleted member 13077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,513
Yeah, it's bizarre that people keep denying a statement from Ubisoft on their official website. Ubisoft are listing particular games that won't work on PS5. What more clarification do people want? The publisher would never put up a statement like this on their website if they aren't sure of it. Even if the games boot up on PS5, they clearly have some serious issues that would make even Ubisoft classify them as incompatible. The publisher would never call their own games incompatible on a platform unless there's a good reason for it, because losing potential sales is the last thing a publisher wants.

I believe this is true.

What I don't get is why;

a) this is literally just coming to light now, when that list has been out for a while

and

b) why there hasn't been some sort of effort to either clarify what the issues are or put out some sort of joint comment with Sony as to what this all means.

Just dropping the list and then going dark when they know it will contradict information already in the public sphere and raise numerous issues is fucking amateur hour.
 

Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,158
Dang, AC Syndicate is secretly the second best AC game behind Unity.

They didn't mention Watch Dogs: Legion. I thought they said it was a free ps5 update?
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
I believe this is true.

What I don't get is why;

a) this is literally just coming to light now, when that list has been out for a while

and

b) why there hasn't been some sort of effort to either clarify what the issues are or put out some sort of joint comment with Sony as to what this all means.

Just dropping the list and then going dark when they know it will contradict information already in the public sphere and raise numerous issues is fucking amateur hour.
It's Friday evening in Europe, people went home by now.
 

NewDust

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,586
Dang, AC Syndicate is secretly the second best AC game behind Unity.

They didn't mention Watch Dogs: Legion. I thought they said it was a free ps5 update?
Games with next-gen upgrade at no additional cost to next generation of consoles

For these games, you will be able to upgrade your version to the next generation at no additional cost: from Xbox One to Xbox Series X|S, or from PlayStation®4 to PlayStation®5. And you will of course keep your progression (see above on Cross-Progression).
- Watch Dogs: Legion
- Assassin's Creed Valhalla
- Immortals Fenyx Rising
- Riders Republic
- Rainbow Six Siege*
No worries
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Do you think ms has its first party developers working on bc testing?

Sony creating a dedicated team to bc would be a good thing imo.

I'm guessing Sony already have a dedicated team (who else would be doing the claimed testing?), It's likely just not as large or comprehensive as Microsofts.

But whether first party studios are doing BC work or not is sort of besides the point, they'd still be exhausting resources to said team of BC developers/testers, resources that could go elsewhere instead (eg towards growth for existing or new studios and new games).

It's all about priorities, Microsoft clearly place more priority on BC than Sony do, hell, the launch line ups and marketing around next-gen have been partially exemplary of that. With Microsoft putting a massive amount of focus on BC, and Sony on newer titles.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
Dang, AC Syndicate is secretly the second best AC game behind Unity.

They didn't mention Watch Dogs: Legion. I thought they said it was a free ps5 update?

Yeah, that's in the same blog post. It's getting a native PS5 build with a free upgrade from the PS4 version. (The PS4 version presumably also works in BC mode if for some reason you don't want to upgrade it - it's not on their list of incompatible games, and IIRC, Sony made it a TRC for new PS4 games to work without issue on PS5 at some point in the last year).
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,116
Amalthea
tumblr_p67h27fTg71vj8ggto1_540.gifv


Very much doubt there will be any Kinect support.
Mhm, the Kinect had a hardware reservation on the Xbox One. I don't know if it still persists today or if it was made smaller but it had an impact on development. Kinect ain't comin' back, use yours like a webcam for Zoom calls!
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,048
Melbourne, Australia
Noooo, Everybody's Golf needs to work.

I really hope this is all just overblown. It would be absolutely baffling for Sony to publicly announce "only these ten games won't work" fully knowing there are heavy caveats to that claim, and lots of other games are in unplayable states. It's just asking for bad PR...
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,680
don't think they do, especially for such a small number of problem games. I'd much rather they put those man hours and resources towards new games.

I'm Imagining Shu, Cerny and Jim Ryan all having a drunken lock in trying to complete 4000 games and logging bugs rather than doing their actual jobs.
 

Vanquished

Member
Oct 16, 2020
75
Hoping to see what functionalities don't actually work or if it's the whole game not working at all sooner rather than later.
 

pure

Member
Jun 18, 2019
236
Germany
Regarding the "BOOTABLE" and "COMPATIBLE" tags from the store API: These are probably just to display different texts regarding the store listing. As people have pointed out there is one which warns of errors in the game. We'll see what that means, but people should now by now that Sony is always very careful in their statements (PSN name change for example).

Whats up with the Ubisoft games I have no idea. We'll have to wait and see.
 

Deleted member 9857

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,977

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,092
Shame. I hope this doesn't end up applying to any games I have or want to play.

Big respect for all the work MS put into the Series X BC.
 

TheChrisGlass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,605
Los Angeles, CA
I wonder if this has more to do with the Ubisoft Connect platform change than anything else.
Syndicate, to this day, still has major server issues in the game with claiming some community-triggered items.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
Sony puts out an article implying all games but 10 will work.

Ubisoft throws out a further 10 or so, and now we suspect about 100 games are just "bootable".

Come the fuck on, Sony. Which is it?
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,685
Sony puts out an article implying all games but 10 will work.

Ubisoft throws out a further 10 or so, and now we suspect about 100 games are just "bootable".

Come the fuck on, Sony. Which is it?
I pretty sure in their announcement article they directly mention some games might have issues.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,019
Woof, this doesn't bode well. If this is true there's bound to be other exceptions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,756
If I'm not mistaken they had a site listing unexpected errors or issues for ps2 and ps1 games on OG PS3 models, especially for the small batch of fat PS3 systems that played ps2 games thru emulation
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,019
If I'm not mistaken they had a site listing unexpected errors or issues for ps2 and ps1 games on OG PS3 models, especially for the small batch of fat PS3 systems that played ps2 games thru emulation
There's always been exceptions, there's PS1 games that don't play on PS2 even. The concerning part is Sony not being upfront/totally accurate about it.
 

Arn

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,728
In honesty none of the excluded titles are personally of interest to me. This news does not impact me personally when I do pick up a PS5.

Saying that, the idea that perhaps Sony were knowingly hiding the truth about the extent of their backwards compatibility support is distasteful. I felt the same when they belatedly revealed the platforms for Spider-Man and Horizon.

In isolation it's small but when you zoom out it's not a good look.
 

Grindlefly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
175
I hope this is incorrect. Was looking fwd to finishing Star Trek Bridge Crew and Syndicate on ps5. Wondering about powering through them now instead
 

TheGift

Member
Oct 28, 2017
669
Central California
If this is true, its pretty shady on the part of sony for saying there's only 10 ps4 games that won't work on ps5. They never said it was on devs to check games themselves.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
There's always been exceptions, there's PS1 games that don't play on PS2 even. The concerning part is Sony not being upfront/totally accurate about it.

In fairness, every PS4 game on the store seemingly has a note around PS5 BC, with a specific different disclaimer about potential errors or unexpected behaviours on the titles Ubisoft mentioned (and some more besides). Granted, it would be nice to have a list all in one place, with more specific detail on what the issues are, but warnings beyond the normal legalese are being published for some games, and Sony did say there would be some games like this (beyond the list that don't play at all on PS5).

I think where Sony would be more seriously at fault from an info point of view is if, indeed, these games, and others with this disclaimer about 'errors', are actually very fundamentally broken and unplayable. Then there's the valid argument that they should actually be on Sony's list of incompatible games. And that's the crux of the apparent mixed signals between Sony and Ubisoft here, and what could do with clarifying.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,350
I wonder if we'll ever get to a point where we buy a license to a game and can play on whatever device we choose (Steam, PS, Xbox, etc...). Kind of like how I subscribe to Disney+ and can access it via my phone, my TV, my computer, etc... Publishers might lose a bit from people who double dip, but that'd be a fairly small number, I'd think. It'd be relatively easy for them since everything is moving to digital anyway. Whatever system is first to log x number of hours would take their 30% cut of the pie so I wouldn't think it would cause the platform owners much frustration either.
 
Script to find all games with bottable TAG
Jan 26, 2019
9
If anyone's interested in trying to find what games are marked as bootable by psn, I can write bad python scripts all day.
Anomaly 2
Daylight
Dead Nation™ -黙示録-
Dead Nation™: Apocalypse Edition
Doki-Doki Universe™
DYNASTY WARRIORS 8: Xtreme Legends Complete Edition
Entwined™
Geometry Wars³: Dimensions
Hardware™: Rivals
How to Survive: Storm Warning Edition
KickBeat Special Edition
Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris
LittleBigPlanet™3
LittleBigPlanet™3 (EU)
LittleBigPlanet™3 (GB)
LittleBigPlanet™3 (LATAM)
LittleBigPlanet™3 (US)
MLB® 14 The Show™
MLB® 15 The Show™
Nobunaga's Ambition Souzou
Pinball Arcade
PixelJunk™ Shooter Ultimate
Project CARS
Pure Pool™
RIGS™ Mechanized Combat League
RISK
Senran Kagura ESTIVAL VERSUS
Super Stardust™Ultra
The Tomorrow Children™
Velocity®2X
リトルビッグプラネット™3
信長の野望・創造
小小大星球3
真・三國無双7 Empires
真・三國無双7 Empires 共闘版
真・三國無双7 with 猛将伝
真・三國無雙7 with 猛將傳
鬼斬(おにぎり)

Here's the script:
Python:
import requests
import urllib
if __name__ == '__main__':
    #go here: https://library.playstation.com/recently-purchased?smcid=web-store%3Aen-us%3Aweb-toolbar-my-playstation%3Agame%20library
    #in dev tools should see a get to something like:
    #https://web.np.playstation.com/api/graphql/v1/op?operationName=backwardCompatibility...
    #copy the cookies here:
    cookies = 'cookies go here'
    cookies = cookies.split(';')
    cookies = [c.split('=') for c in cookies]
    cookies  ={c[0]:c[1] for c in cookies}
    session = requests.Session()
    #Copy that https://web.np.playstation.com/api/graphql/v1/op?operationName=backwardCompatibility... link from above
    #and replace the title ids list after 'variables=' with {}, leave the other params (extensions, version, persistedQuery, etc..)
    url = 'https://web.np.playstation.com/api/graphql/v1/op?operationName=backwardCompatibility&variables={}&extensions=%7B%22persistedQuery%22%3A%7B%22version%22%3A1%2C%22sha256Hash%22%3A%22hashgoeshere%22%7D%7D'
    bootables = []
    #I'm doing this in 250 title chunks at a time, only did first 1000 to test.
    for i in range(1, 1000, 250):
        ids = ['CUSA{}'.format(str(j).rjust(5, '0')) for j in range(i, i+250)]
        titleIds = '{{"titleIds":"{}"}}'.format(','.join(ids))
        urlWithIds = url.format(urllib.parse.quote(titleIds))
        r = session.get(urlWithIds, cookies=cookies)
        j = r.json()
        data = j['data']['backwardsCompatibilityRetrieve']['titleBackwardsCompatibilityList']
        for title in data:
            if title['category'] == 'BOOTABLE':
                bootables.append(title['titleId'])
    #https://ps4database.io can give the title from the title id
    #note that requests are limited to 500/hr
    names = []
    for b in bootables: 
        try:
            r = session.get('https://ps4database.io/dataApi?id={}_00&env=NP&method=meta'.format(b))
            j = r.json()
            name = j['names'][0]['name']
            names.append(name)
        except Exception:
            print('could not get data for {}'.format(b))
            continue
    #There are different title ids per region remove duplicates
    names = set(names)
    names = sorted(names, key=lambda x: x.lower())
    #write to file
    with open('bootableTitles.txt', 'w', encoding='utf-16') as f:
        f.write('\n'.join(names))