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Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
My only receipts is working at a VW dealer (we serviced a lot of audi's for some reason too) and seeing the problems they had, and any VW product really through the 2000's.

I'm not debating that the unintended acceleration thing hurt sales, only that their cars weren't very good from my experience compared to their rivals. Like I said, it could be that just most people didn't take care of them, but from what I've seen I certainly wouldn't buy one.

You know a lot of this already so it's a general response to the phenomenon rather than your post.

Many audis and vw models are essentially mechanically the same vehicle. That's why you see so many. They use identical parts and materials - more VWs are sold so there are more vw dealers and service places do double duty - so you're seeing a disproportionate number of Audis for that reason in part.

Many models of each vehicle suffer identical service and mechanical issues as a result and the big differences tend to be in unique parts, electrical harnesses (as the vast number of late 90s and early Ought VWs with one sided light clusters can attest) and difficult or complex engine components like Turbos and oil pumps.

Another important factor in car reliability that is overlooked is region - both for assembly /fit/finish problems - as well as local weather conditions (Puerto Rico for example has a maintenance frequency that's often double elsewhere because of salt, heat, humidity and road quality).

And foreign cars are often disproportionately rated as unreliable in "emotional" polling like Consumer Reports, where users equate novelty with difficulty and parts availability with resilience.

The "initial quality" polls on Consumer Reports are sort of laughable as a result because the disproportionately older respondents and methodologies mean that a car with small volume dials gets hammered by credulous Mr Magoos.

I almost bought a VW Phaeton with the W12 Lamborghini derived engine for $10k - which is probably what it would have cost me per month in gasoline and oil changes.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,133
Lol did you make this up?

No. A software/hardware bug that says the accelerator is being pressed is indistinguishable from the accelerator actually being pressed. There is no secondary verification of the physical control on the motor itself.


For Tesla to be able to verify the difference between an electronic malfunction and a physical press they need to have the motor independently check the state of the accelerator pedal.

That paper goes further into what they think is going wrong with the control systems. They think components are resetting due to the identical time gaps between the accelerator being pressed indicating an electronic defect. They propose the motor output its speed to the controller to say "hey I am going this speed, do you agree?" and if they don't agree the system fails safe.
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917
No. A software/hardware bug that says the accelerator is being pressed is indistinguishable from the accelerator actually being pressed. There is no secondary verification of the physical control on the motor itself.


For Tesla to be able to verify the difference between an electronic malfunction and a physical press they need to have the motor independently check the state of the accelerator pedal.

That paper goes further into what they think is going wrong with the control systems. They think components are resetting due to the identical time gaps between the accelerator being pressed indicating an electronic defect. They propose the motor output its speed to the controller to say "hey I am going this speed, do you agree?" and if they don't agree the system fails safe.

That "paper" about sudden acceleration being related to encoder failure is complete garbage and has no basis in reality.

I've debunked it elsewhere around here, but probably buried.

Immediately you can reject the entire thing when it says that the encoder and accelerator pedal share a 5V source. Tesla's design doesn't do this, even in the earliest inverters. In fact, Tesla outputs all six lines for the accelerator pedal directly with no sharing (Power 1, Power 2, Return 1, Return 2, Sense 1, Sense 2). Almost anyone can debunk this paper in 5 minutes by crawling under their car, pulling one connector, and testing a few things with a continuity meter.

Let's say that in some imaginary world, somehow this failure mode exists (it doesn't), and it can drag an accelerator pedal sense line, or both, to 5V. Welllllll... there are hardware and software interlocks on the accelerator pedal sense that then immediately reject (as if the pedal were not pressed, ie 0%) the input from the pedal. The pedal has TWO sensors, both with different outputs, that have to match. 5V and 5V doesn't line up with the expected output. Tesla goes even further than is even necessary here (since the software is perfectly capable on its own to detect this discrepancy). The hardware side of the pedal sensor has a clamp where if either input exceeds their expected voltage by a reasonable range, it'll disable the sensing of it, throw a code, and it doesn't even make it to the software side (sw sees 0% press).

So even if you believe the encoder failure nonsense, you can also debunk this by simulating such a failure: just unplug your accelerator pedal, and short pins 6 to 4 and 1 to 3 on the car side... which would put the 5V reference outputs from the motor into the sense lines for each of the sensors in the pedal. If you want to make it a shared 5V reference, short 1,3,4, and 6 all together. Regardless, I'll bet ya the car doesn't suddenly accelerate...

Any takers on my bet yet?
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,133
Debunking the conclusions the author makes is fine. He might be wrong about the cause. It might not be an encoder failure.

The point is that the motor is not directly connected to the accelerator. Therefore Tesla's data cannot distinguish a system bug in accelator control and the driver making an input.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1020726_a-short-sad-history-of-so-called-sudden-acceleration

"Since then, government data show that injuries due to "speed control" issues have been reported for more than 100 separate vehicle models. But no car has ever been proven to have a design defect that would cause so-called sudden acceleration."

This repeats every couple of years.

I remember reading an article by PJ O'Rourke about Audi's doing this in the late 80s, and yes 'pedal misapplication is the most likely cause' was the conclusion then.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I remember reading an article by PJ O'Rourke about Audi's doing this in the late 80s, and yes 'pedal misapplication is the most likely cause' was the conclusion then.

Not just that, 60 Minutes who ran the damaging story, also made an air compression device to actually CAUSE it to happen, with no driver in the car, which wasn't even one of the alleged "conditions" from the people who had simply been jamming on the gas pedal.
 

Argyle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,054
Debunking the conclusions the author makes is fine. He might be wrong about the cause. It might not be an encoder failure.

The point is that the motor is not directly connected to the accelerator. Therefore Tesla's data cannot distinguish a system bug in accelator control and the driver making an input.

The "log data" in the paper you provided was provided by a customer who apparently had it verbally described over the phone with a Tesla engineer. Let's just say that it's not too likely that the data was transmitted completely accurately and drawing any conclusions from it is probably not a good idea... For example can we really assume that the change in pedal position really had no slope like a square wave based on a verbal description?

I think the guy who wrote the paper, who is a retired engineer who looks into sudden acceleration as a hobby, has his heart in the right place but he's also had several of his papers debunked because he makes assumptions about how the underlying system works without ever seeing it himself.

Edit: the software apparently explicitly rejects the pedal sensor jumping from like 0 to whatever with no transition.

There is no way for some error, wiring issue, voltage spike, short, or anything of the like to cause the pedal to report the correct value on both T1 and T2 and result in non-commanded acceleration. For every pedal position there is only one correct combination of T1/T2 that is valid and accepted. That's why the system is designed in this way. The system can crosscheck both tracks' values and always know if the reading is valid. Tesla takes this even further, and the software demands a plausible ramp to a higher value for an increase in pedal position to be valid. So, for example, you can't just inject 4V/2V on the tracks to get full acceleration. It would be rejected without a plausible ramp up to those values, even if such a ramp is only a handful of milliseconds (as it would actually take with a physical pedal). The behavior in the event that something doesn't check out is to cut power. No acceleration. (Edit: To note, it does NOT demand this for a *decrease* in pedal position. A drop to the 0% T1/T2 always appears to be accepted even if the immediately preceding sample is 100% application).

Let's put it this way. One of my projects has been to be able to make my Model S into a big RC car. To do so a ton of different safety mechanisms have to be overridden one way or another. Faking out the accelerator pedal has proven to be quite challenging, since the system has many ways to determine if even valid-looking values are produced by a physical pedal being applied and works to reject "fake" pedal values generated by a DAC even when they would seem plausible.

Source: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/3098344/

Edit 2: They of course can tell the difference between a pedal input and any possible software bug, and there are multiple fail-safes later in the system...

Tesla's logging is ridiculously thorough. Last I saw they were logging changes in both tracks of the accelerator position at up to 100Hz while the vehicle is in gear. Same with the brake pedal switch (also dual and redundant).

As for the software, all of the autonomous functions have interlocks that prevent usage at high torque command. You're not going to see a car summon at more than a couple feet per second because this is limited and crosschecked by multiple pieces of hardware. Cruise control has a defined max rate of increase in speed which is crosschecked in multiple places as well. Full acceleration by any autonomous feature is not possible.

The autonomous functions never show in logs as a pedal application, either. While cruising or summoning, if your foot is off the pedal the logged position is 0. If the logs say the pedal was pressed you can rest assured that the pedal is pressed.

Also, internally, the pedal position is measured thousands of times per second. It won't accept an instantaneous change from 0 to 100% without intermediate increases in position matching real world usage. Even if you do the fastest kung fu speed kick at the pedal from 0 to 100% the hardware will get multiple data points in between as it changes from 0 to 100% and can know for certain that it was indeed a physical pedal press.

Source: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/3137263/
 
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Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
How is this thread still not had a title change to something not completely misleading and clickbait? Like pointing out it was 123 alleged cars not 500,000 lol

Add it to the list of greatest hits Tesla threads that never got a title change such as:

"Tesla can't afford toilet paper"
"Elon Musk says Tesla will be broke in 10 months"

That were completely fabricated clickbait bullshit. Those were almost a year ago and still have people saying "I thought tesla couldn't even afford toilet paper" and "I thought Elon Musk said they were almost broke".... Can't wait to discuss all the Tesla's that were suddenly accelerating a year from now lol
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
How is this thread still not had a title change to something not completely misleading and clickbait? Like pointing out it was 123 alleged cars not 500,000 lol

Add it to the list of greatest hits Tesla threads that never got a title change such as:

"Tesla can't afford toilet paper"
"Elon Musk says Tesla will be broke in 10 months"

That were completely fabricated clickbait bullshit. Those were almost a year ago and still have people saying "I thought tesla couldn't even afford toilet paper" and "I thought Elon Musk said they were almost broke".... Can't wait to discuss all the Tesla's that were suddenly accelerating a year from now lol

I made that point earlier. There's no reasonable semantic argument for it "affecting 500,000 cars" when it's literally an allegation with no proof and the other 499, 877 cars may not be affected in any way beyond association. We wouldn't say "5 billion people affected by murder accusation"
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,860
Huh, it's weird that this popped up today. Went on a test drive of a Model 3 today and my wife was parking the car after we were done with the drive and it lurched forward suddenly and almost went into a pole. She claimed she didn't accelerate, but I didn't believe her until after reading this. She had to slam on the brake to keep the car from going over the curb, it was weird.
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,256
I made that point earlier. There's no reasonable semantic argument for it "affecting 500,000 cars" when it's literally an allegation with no proof and the other 499, 877 cars may not be affected in any way beyond association. We wouldn't say "5 billion people affected by murder accusation"
You would if you wanted to get clicks.
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,641
Canada
Huh, it's weird that this popped up today. Went on a test drive of a Model 3 today and my wife was parking the car after we were done with the drive and it lurched forward suddenly and almost went into a pole. She claimed she didn't accelerate, but I didn't believe her until after reading this. She had to slam on the brake to keep the car from going over the curb, it was weird.


This is more likely than not user error on her part, the car likely had creep mode on (to mimic the driving style of a standard ICE vehicle), and she probably thought she depressed the park button the stalk deep enough but probably only half clicked it and didn't actually put the vehicle in park (similar to the other stalk if you manually press on the windshield wiper)
 

Shirosaki

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
831
Huh, it's weird that this popped up today. Went on a test drive of a Model 3 today and my wife was parking the car after we were done with the drive and it lurched forward suddenly and almost went into a pole. She claimed she didn't accelerate, but I didn't believe her until after reading this. She had to slam on the brake to keep the car from going over the curb, it was weird.
Not trying to second guess your wife but driving a Tesla is quite different and I would be willing to bet the wrong pedal was pressed. Especially on a demo car.

Actually Dr. Evil's post is a more logical explanation. Completely forgot about Creep mode.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,650
I don't know a lot about teslas so this is the first I'm hearing they drive so differently with different modes and stuff for just standard driving, maybe it's just me but that seems like not the best idea? People have been driving for years with a brake pedal and accelerator pedal and knowing if you're in drive even just sitting there the car can move forward a bit if you release the brakes, like it's predictable car behavior. It seems like outside of their other systems which obviously also change behavior to maybe be too much at once? It seems like that would take a while to get used to.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I don't know a lot about teslas so this is the first I'm hearing they drive so differently with different modes and stuff for just standard driving, maybe it's just me but that seems like not the best idea? People have been driving for years with a brake pedal and accelerator pedal and knowing if you're in drive even just sitting there the car can move forward a bit if you release the brakes, like it's predictable car behavior. It seems like outside of their other systems which obviously also change behavior to maybe be too much at once? It seems like that would take a while to get used to.

That's what he's saying it does tho
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,650
That's what he's saying it does tho
What do you mean, the creep mode? Isn't there other modes too though, and it sounds like there's something regarding only using one pedal to drive?

I get having to reinvent the wheel when it comes to automated driving but damn that on top of the other stuff knowing how many bad and distracted drivers there are on the road seems like a recipe for disaster, you'd think changing so much would be more gradual. And that's not on teslas part as a foul necessarily, maybe the way their cars drive are better, but people can get in a driving groove after doing it so long and I can see how that would be an issue considering you don't need like special training or taking a class to buy one
 

Argyle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,054
What do you mean, the creep mode? Isn't there other modes too though, and it sounds like there's something regarding only using one pedal to drive?

I get having to reinvent the wheel when it comes to automated driving but damn that on top of the other stuff knowing how many bad and distracted drivers there are on the road seems like a recipe for disaster, you'd think changing so much would be more gradual. And that's not on teslas part as a foul necessarily, maybe the way their cars drive are better, but people can get in a driving groove after doing it so long and I can see how that would be an issue considering you don't need like special training or taking a class to buy one

So use the creep mode which drives just like an automatic ICE? I don't get it
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,650
So use the creep mode which drives just like an automatic ICE? I don't get it
People like to try features out and fiddle with stuff, especially if you're dropping a ton of money. Maybe people like both or use both and get confused. I was thinking about it as like maybe giving people multiple options to switch how a car fundamentally operates at will can lead to not great outcomes.
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917
People like to try features out and fiddle with stuff, especially if you're dropping a ton of money. Maybe people like both or use both and get confused. I was thinking about it as like maybe giving people multiple options to switch how a car fundamentally operates at will can lead to not great outcomes.

So electric cars that have more responsive features should just not have it anymore?
 

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
People like to try features out and fiddle with stuff, especially if you're dropping a ton of money. Maybe people like both or use both and get confused. I was thinking about it as like maybe giving people multiple options to switch how a car fundamentally operates at will can lead to not great outcomes.

Nah options are better. Creep mode mimics gas cars and is nice for making the switch to get used to at first... I never have used it I prefer the 1 pedal driving, but can see why some people might like it.

You can also for example on the fly switch regen mode between normal and low so the car will slow down less rapidly when accelerater is released. I always have it on normal to boost range and have the true 1 pedal driving and its honestly awesome but yesterday was snowstorm so set it to low and also set driving speed from normal to chill to reduce acceleration power. Options are nice.
 
Feb 1, 2018
5,083
Creep mode throws people off especially if the sales rep gives you the usual spiel about regen braking. I turned it off as soon as I got my car, Im used to my old EV (i3) and its aggressive one-pedal nature
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
Nah options are better. Creep mode mimics gas cars and is nice for making the switch to get used to at first... I never have used it I prefer the 1 pedal driving, but can see why some people might like it.
Not a native English speaker, so, when you're talking about creep mode, it's the feature when the car moves on its own while in D or R, if the brake is not applied, right?
 
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Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Not a native English speaker, so, when you're talking about creep mode, it's the feature when the car moves on its own while in D or R, if the brake is not applied, right?

Yeah exactly that. It will slowly move like a gas car would

Normally if no brake or acceleration pedal is pressed the car goes into "hold" mode to prevent say rolling up and down a hill at a stoplight... This might be where alot of these incidents are occurring. Car is in hold mode which seems like park... People think they have it in park... Accidently press acceleration and well with Tesla's instant insane torque you get the picture. There is an option to disable rapid acceleration from stop if car detects any objects close by... But it's hidden in the Autopilot menu so lots of people might have it turned off without even knowing about it.
 

Exodia

Alt Account
Banned
Jan 9, 2020
80
From the article you quoted I keep seeing Full Self Driving Capability and Full Self Driving Suite of Hardware. Here one too

"Musk says that buying a car that cannot upgrade to full self-driving is like "buying a horse instead of a car in 2019.""

I'm not really seeing one that outright say this is unassisted full self driving. Even the feature complete quote broke it down pretty well for the different levels of FSD.

Theres no such thing as an 'unassisted full self driving' that's like calling something an unwet water or a fire that doesnt hurt or a intense heat that doesnt burn.

Fully self driving is a term that means a driverless car or a car that doesnt need a driver.

You cant calls a ADAS (Advanced Driver Assistance System) self driving and then think nothing will come out of it.

Literally every one I work with in multiple jobs believed that Tesla was self driving and you could fall asleep in them. It was only after I talked with them that they were shocked that it wasnt true.

Now tell me this how does dozens of IT people believe something if the info being sent out isnt the reason that they believe it?

This is why there are so many people who sleep in their car on Autopilot because they believe the sayings of Elon Musk that their car is a better driver than them.

Finally Tesla is complicit by releasing those fake quarterly 'Autopilot safety report's claiming AP and Teslas are X times better than human.

The whole thing is sad because multiple people have died and been maimed over this
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917
Theres no such thing as an 'unassisted full self driving' that's like calling something an unwet water or a fire that doesnt hurt or a intense heat that doesnt burn.

Fully self driving is a term that means a driverless car or a car that doesnt need a driver.

You cant calls a ADAS (Advanced Driver Assistance System) self driving and then think nothing will come out of it.

Literally every one I work with in multiple jobs believed that Tesla was self driving and you could fall asleep in them. It was only after I talked with them that they were shocked that it wasnt true.

Now tell me this how does dozens of IT people believe something if the info being sent out isnt the reason that they believe it?

This is why there are so many people who sleep in their car on Autopilot because they believe the sayings of Elon Musk that their car is a better driver than them.

Finally Tesla is complicit by releasing those fake quarterly 'Autopilot safety report's claiming AP and Teslas are X times better than human.

The whole thing is sad because multiple people have died and been maimed over this

It's one thing to be misinformed if you don't own a Tesla, but you are told in a dozen different ways that you cannot take your hands off the wheel during auto pilot. People who are total idiots and sleeping during it are the same as drunk drivers or people who drive while texting, the ignore all the warnings and think they'll be fine.

Full self driving isn't even a default option. It's a $7,000 add on. When you get it, they tell you it's a beta and it doesn't allow any of the things you mentioned. This also has nothing to do with the claims in here.
 

Shirosaki

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
831
Theres no such thing as an 'unassisted full self driving' that's like calling something an unwet water or a fire that doesnt hurt or a intense heat that doesnt burn.

Fully self driving is a term that means a driverless car or a car that doesnt need a driver.

You cant calls a ADAS (Advanced Driver Assistance System) self driving and then think nothing will come out of it.

Literally every one I work with in multiple jobs believed that Tesla was self driving and you could fall asleep in them. It was only after I talked with them that they were shocked that it wasnt true.

Now tell me this how does dozens of IT people believe something if the info being sent out isnt the reason that they believe it?

This is why there are so many people who sleep in their car on Autopilot because they believe the sayings of Elon Musk that their car is a better driver than them.

Finally Tesla is complicit by releasing those fake quarterly 'Autopilot safety report's claiming AP and Teslas are X times better than human.

The whole thing is sad because multiple people have died and been maimed over this

I'm getting tired of having to explain a feature that people can easily research themselves. I can use a term such as unassisted full self driving when Tesla themselves advertise it as Full Self Driving Capability, which to me designates a limitation currently with the last word
That's a shame that your IT friends cant look at a website for the vehicle and when you build the car this is what it says.

Full Self-Driving Capability

  • Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
  • Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
  • Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
  • Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
Coming later this year:
  • Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
  • Automatic driving on city streets.

Look I could care less about autopilot and FSD. It's a cool concept which I use AP occasionally but I still prefer to drive myself. It's why I got a Performance model. Octodad touched on it again. It is heavily stated this is a BETA feature and the car literally becomes super clingy about keeping your hand and applying the right amount of force to the wheel to even keep it engaged at this time.

This thread is about unintended acceleration not the semantics of Full Self Driving and Autopilot. The thread title is still bogus and is such clickbait and should be changed to the actual number of vehicles that have been reported which I'm willing to bet are from user error. Each and everyone should be investigated though.
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,860
This is more likely than not user error on her part, the car likely had creep mode on (to mimic the driving style of a standard ICE vehicle), and she probably thought she depressed the park button the stalk deep enough but probably only half clicked it and didn't actually put the vehicle in park (similar to the other stalk if you manually press on the windshield wiper)
Not trying to second guess your wife but driving a Tesla is quite different and I would be willing to bet the wrong pedal was pressed. Especially on a demo car.

Actually Dr. Evil's post is a more logical explanation. Completely forgot about Creep mode.
Creep mode was turned off (I drove it first and set up all the options), and I think she's able to tell which pedal she presses. At that point she had been driving it for 15 minutes and was able to operate it as smoothly as any other car on the road.
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,641
Canada
Creep mode was turned off (I drove it first and set up all the options), and I think she's able to tell which pedal she presses. At that point she had been driving it for 15 minutes and was able to operate it as smoothly as any other car on the road.


Muscle memory is a hell of a thing though, when I first got my 3, I did a very similar thing and had the same experience of the car moving forward (seemingly) on its own. Turned out I had mistaken hold mode for park and accidentally pressed the accelerator pedal with the tip of my foot as I was exiting the car.

Likewise, I had to rent a gas car recently and I got out and walked away without shutting the thing off or locking the doors because that's what the 3 does automatically for me.

You don't realize things you're doing in a brand new vehicle with a completely different system for starting/stopping/shifting and its easy to go blind to the things you're 'used to', even after a 15 minute test drive.

It took me three full days to fully get used to my model 3 when I got it, and even after that there was a long period of learning to trust the car (autopilot) and figuring out the ins-and-outs of how the thing moved and operated under normal conditions.
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917

While accidents caused by a mistaken press of the accelerator pedal have been alleged for nearly every make/model of vehicle on the road, the accelerator pedals in Model S, X and 3 vehicles have two independent position sensors, and if there is any error, the system defaults to cut off motor torque. Likewise, applying the brake pedal simultaneously with the accelerator pedal will override the accelerator pedal input and cut off motor torque, and regardless of the torque, sustained braking will stop the car. Unique to Tesla, we also use the Autopilot sensor suite to help distinguish potential pedal misapplications and cut torque to mitigate or prevent accidents when we're confident the driver's input was unintentional. Each system is independent and records data, so we can examine exactly what happened.

But someone told me on here that Tesla can't tell if someone hits the pedal or the computer does it!
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
Came to here joke about marketing for the Sonic movie, with every Tesla getting a 'gotta go fast' update; but I seem to be a bit late.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,631
The "log data" in the paper you provided was provided by a customer who apparently had it verbally described over the phone with a Tesla engineer. Let's just say that it's not too likely that the data was transmitted completely accurately and drawing any conclusions from it is probably not a good idea... For example can we really assume that the change in pedal position really had no slope like a square wave based on a verbal description?

I think the guy who wrote the paper, who is a retired engineer who looks into sudden acceleration as a hobby, has his heart in the right place but he's also had several of his papers debunked because he makes assumptions about how the underlying system works without ever seeing it himself.

Edit: the software apparently explicitly rejects the pedal sensor jumping from like 0 to whatever with no transition.



Source: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/3098344/

Edit 2: They of course can tell the difference between a pedal input and any possible software bug, and there are multiple fail-safes later in the system...



Source: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/3137263/
lol did he make it up and look up the article after the fact?
 

Marshall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
I reported the thread title as misleading. Not sure if that's the OPs intention or not but hoping they or a mod can step in.