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Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,141
From the article you quoted I keep seeing Full Self Driving Capability and Full Self Driving Suite of Hardware. Here one too

"Musk says that buying a car that cannot upgrade to full self-driving is like "buying a horse instead of a car in 2019.""

I'm not really seeing one that outright say this is unassisted full self driving. Even the feature complete quote broke it down pretty well for the different levels of FSD.

Elon is selling snake oil here.

Full Self Driving is a tech term that means the car doesn't need a driver to supervise.

There are currently no legal ways to do that right now (outside of test programs). Congress has been looking at making laws to allow full self drving but they have failed to agree on safety issues. Without any legal definition of what technology a car needs to be full self driving Elon can say his cars will be FSD because that term hasn't been legally defined.

However Elon can't guarantee any Tesla can upgrade to be driven on a road unsupervised. Or what people expect from FSD. For example if Congress decide all FSD cars need LIDAR then Tesla is screwed because they don't have it.

All of those have the person saying they hit the brakes and it didn't help.... except that's how most user error happens, they think they are hitting the brakes but are hitting the gas pedal and when the car accelerates they panic and just "brake" harder. Cars will brake if you hit the brake and accelerator at the same time... meaning if they really were hitting the brakes the car could not accelerate. Unless there is something wrong with the brakes too. Seems highly odd brakes and accelerator would be broken at the same time for so many people.

On a standard car that would be true but Tesla has a computer that tells the car to go faster or go slower. Breaking and accelerating are essentially the same action.
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
What does this even mean?

It's inherent there isn't an investigation. But if everyone on Yelp said the car moves when your foot is on the brake... I'd look into it a tiny bit.

I just looked at the model three reports predating this action by a guy that admits he's shorting the stock. However .. seems to be some issue that multiple people in a minority are bothering to make reports on the site for.

Look at my posts here.. I'm not exactly anti Tesla.. and have 100 dollars of my cold hard cash down on a cybertruck.

But.. it doesn't look like it's just people being stupid and flying into cars for no reason.
I'm saying the people that would go on and write a complaint here aren't exactly the most reliable sources. Sure, investigate, but them almost all being user error wouldn't surprise me. Thread title is disingenuous as fuck though.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,889
On a standard car that would be true but Tesla has a computer that tells the car to go faster or go slower. Breaking and accelerating are essentially the same action

I would think pressing the accelerator tells the computer to speed up the motor RPMs and the brake pedal engages regenerative braking or friction brakes depending on the car speed and other factors.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
I'm saying the people that would go on and write a complaint here aren't exactly the most reliable sources. Sure, investigate, but them almost all being user error wouldn't surprise me. Thread title is disingenuous as fuck though.
Agree thread title is click bait. But again.. people that take the time to post reviews over years about this problem tho? Let's just say I chose another processor when I was building my PC due to common issue reviews of overheating.. even though everyone was saying their using the thermal paste.. it's just.. yeah people are morons. But why risk it if another product lacks the issues. The timing of this is suspect. Re Tesla being more valuable than gm and Ford..but looks like there may be a low-key issue..enough to look into. And I'd rather that. As a Tesla future pre owner..

But you have to be a specific kind to spend the time for a detailed report. And many are explaining normal functioning until it weirds out with the brake engaged...
 
Oct 28, 2017
967
To those saying user error. There have been multiple reported incidents where autopilot was engaged and the car accelerated.

Telsa also continues to oversell its autopilot feature which is not up to the standard of true autonomous driving and still requires the driver to have their hands remain on the wheel.
Tesla clearly advertises autopilot as a service that requires driver attention.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
User Warned: Inflammatory Point of Comparison
Telsa fanboys are so delusional. Truly the Trump supporters of the car enthusiast world.
 
Feb 1, 2018
5,083
https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1020726_a-short-sad-history-of-so-called-sudden-acceleration

"Since then, government data show that injuries due to "speed control" issues have been reported for more than 100 separate vehicle models. But no car has ever been proven to have a design defect that would cause so-called sudden acceleration."

This repeats every couple of years.

It's called "pedal confusion" and it's a well known psychological phenomenon, there's actually research about it
 

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Telsa fanboys are so delusional. Truly the Trump supporters of the car enthusiast world.

Except most Tesla short sellers/haters are actual climate change deniers and obviously conservatives. You should see the tweets they make about Greta Thornburg etc...

Tesla fanboys want to see the world done with oil for good. What complete assholes.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
This is what happens when software engineers make cars

tbf pretty much any modern car is controlled by the computer, and yes other makes do have similar issues. I remember Jeep had that issue with them somehow coming out of park. It killed that Star Trek actor dude.

edit: nvm, guess it was just a confusing shifter and people leaving it in neutral.
 
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Argyle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,054
On a standard car that would be true but Tesla has a computer that tells the car to go faster or go slower. Breaking and accelerating are essentially the same action.

As I mentioned earlier, the brake pedal is mechanically connected to the brakes. The computer can't stop you from applying the brakes if you are pressing down on the pedal. There is also no regen on the brake pedal unlike other EVs which have "blended brakes" - on Teslas the brake pedal applies friction brakes, full stop.

Agree thread title is click bait. But again.. people that take the time to post reviews over years about this problem tho? Let's just say I chose another processor when I was building my PC due to common issue reviews of overheating.. even though everyone was saying their using the thermal paste.. it's just.. yeah people are morons. But why risk it if another product lacks the issues. The timing of this is suspect. Re Tesla being more valuable than gm and Ford..but looks like there may be a low-key issue..enough to look into. And I'd rather that. As a Tesla future pre owner..

But you have to be a specific kind to spend the time for a detailed report. And many are explaining normal functioning until it weirds out with the brake engaged...

I haven't read all the complaints but I mean...there are apparently people who are very motivated to post stuff on there. There's one Tesla short that searches through car auctions for wrecked cars and posts an NHTSA report for the VIN of every Tesla he finds up for auction reporting the "accident" and claiming the cars are unsafe.

Edit: source: https://ww.electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-fale-complaints-suspension-nhtsa-keef-wivaneff/
 

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
As I mentioned earlier, the brake pedal is mechanically connected to the brakes. The computer can't stop you from applying the brakes if you are pressing down on the pedal. There is also no regen on the brake pedal unlike other EVs which have "blended brakes" - on Teslas the brake pedal applies friction brakes, full stop.



I haven't read all the complaints but I mean...there are apparently people who are very motivated to post stuff on there. There's one Tesla short that searches through car auctions for wrecked cars and posts an NHTSA report for the VIN of every Tesla he finds up for auction reporting the "accident" and claiming the cars are unsafe.

Edit: source: https://ww.electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-fale-complaints-suspension-nhtsa-keef-wivaneff/

This is blatant market manipulation to get a headline out of the NHTSA, no matter how frivolous it is, just the headline will cause the algos to tank the stock. Can't believe it's legal, scumbags.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
A bug in software most likely.

Or a malicious actor, that got something in an update somehow

Audi went through a similar issue in the US about thirty years ago and it turned out it was drivers license doing it because they assumed the auto positions were where they were on a Buick. I'm simplifying a little but that was the ultimate conclusion. Human error based on confusion and assumption.

I'd also remind folks of the Firestone no wait Ford explorer no wait Firestone no wait... Etc rollover crisis. The initial complaints are just that.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
As I mentioned earlier, the brake pedal is mechanically connected to the brakes. The computer can't stop you from applying the brakes if you are pressing down on the pedal. There is also no regen on the brake pedal unlike other EVs which have "blended brakes" - on Teslas the brake pedal applies friction brakes, full stop.



I haven't read all the complaints but I mean...there are apparently people who are very motivated to post stuff on there. There's one Tesla short that searches through car auctions for wrecked cars and posts an NHTSA report for the VIN of every Tesla he finds up for auction reporting the "accident" and claiming the cars are unsafe.

Edit: source: https://ww.electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-fale-complaints-suspension-nhtsa-keef-wivaneff/

Sure. But If it's nothing it just costs a billionaire a few million dollars in legal stuff. Hardly going to cripple him..

And if there's something to it. Consumers are better off.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
The plight of network connected and software driven vehicles.

They might benefit from have some features of these cars independent/redundant and cut themselves off from software automation during certain scenarios

Hopefully they can get this figured out quickly

And the idea of a malicious actor somehow doing this to peoples cars is another level of scary but seems more like a bug at this point

All cars are software driven, and there are tons of recalls and manufacturing glitches in existing automobile models all the time.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,141
Both my wife and I's teslas don't mess up. I suspect human error. It's probably like winter tires: there are some folks who don't understand winter tires don't mean you can accelerate like normal on deep snow or on a hill like normal and expect not to spin out.
 

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Sure. But If it's nothing it just costs a billionaire a few million dollars in legal stuff. Hardly going to cripple him..

And if there's something to it. Consumers are better off.

You know every Tesla employee even janitors are compensated with stock. It's not just elon these short and distort manipulators effect, that's the goal here to tank the stock. Not to mention regular joes investments.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,438

PoppaBK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,165
Sure. But If it's nothing it just costs a billionaire a few million dollars in legal stuff. Hardly going to cripple him..

And if there's something to it. Consumers are better off.
Read the article I posted, it took Audi 15 years to get their sales back to the same level as before a 60 minutes bullshit hit piece on them. Meanwhile some asshole makes millions wasting the NHSTA's time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
Audi went through a similar issue in the US about thirty years ago and it turned out it was drivers license doing it because they assumed the auto positions were where they were on a Buick. I'm simplifying a little but that was the ultimate conclusion. Human error based on confusion and assumption.

I'd also remind folks of the Firestone no wait Ford explorer no wait Firestone no wait... Etc rollover crisis. The initial complaints are just that.
While true, and most likely, I would described autonomous cars like jurrasix park. All the major issues of a car manufacturer anda software company.

I really hope Tesla succeds however, as we need to flip to e cars asap, and get a real entry level ev put there. I.e. the kia Rio 5d, cheap mass produced everyone buys it and gets the country's mind set fine with them
 

Gpsych

Member
May 20, 2019
2,895
I actually have had a sudden braking issue while on autopilot in my model 3. However, I'm fairly certain this is because of how C-DOT lists speed limits on I-25 in Colorado. There are two spots in Denver where my Tesla will suddenly hit the breaks as it thinks the speed limit suddenly decreases to 45 MPH from 65 MPH. It only lasts for a second as less than a tenth of a mile later it goes back up to 65. Still, I'm sure it was frustrating to drivers behind me. I suspect it's some sort of leftover from previous construction areas that are now completed.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
Washington
On a standard car that would be true but Tesla has a computer that tells the car to go faster or go slower. Breaking and accelerating are essentially the same action.

One thing to keep in mind is that even if this happens, just stand on the brake pedal. The brakes can always provide enough braking force to stop the car, even if the throttle is wide open. Even in a Tesla, where electronics can apply the brakes without your intervention, the electronics can't prevent you from applying the brakes which are still mechanically connected as in just about every other car.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
You know every Tesla employee even janitors are compensated with stock. It's not just elon these short and distort manipulators effect, that's the goal here to tank the stock. Not to mention regular joes investments.

Tesla isn't going anywhere with 127 cars maybe having a problem... I'm not going to cancel my cybertruck... Because of this news..
Read the article I posted, it took Audi 15 years to get their sales back to the same level as before a 60 minutes bullshit hit piece on them. Meanwhile some asshole makes millions wasting the NHSTA's time.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
The headline makes it sound like 500,000 vehicles experienced unintended acceleration.

Currently there are 123 vehicles alleged to have experienced this.

The number refers to the number of vehicles manufactured in the period covered.
 

Mr.Awesome

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
3,077
These types of clickbait articles are very obvious attempts at stock price manipulation and you're all getting worked

Critical thinking, how does it work?
I don't have a dog in this fight but my stock market news subscription yesterday said something to the effect that this petition was being pushed forward by holders of a massive short position in TSLA. So yeah that would appear to be true. Short sellers have lost billions on TSLA in the last month alone.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
The headline makes it sound like 500,000 vehicles experienced unintended acceleration.

Currently there are 123 vehicles alleged to have experienced this.

The number refers to the number of vehicles manufactured in the period covered.

It seems like it's just based on what or whatever complaints? Did the stock shorter actually find cars with faulty sensors?
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Phoenix, AZ
Read the article I posted, it took Audi 15 years to get their sales back to the same level as before a 60 minutes bullshit hit piece on them. Meanwhile some asshole makes millions wasting the NHSTA's time.

While I'm sure that had an impact on Audi sales, the fact that the cars were pretty unreliable also had an impact. I mean, there's barely any pre 2000 Audi's left on the road these days, and the same was true even 10 years ago.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
While I'm sure that had an impact on Audi sales, the fact that the cars were pretty unreliable also had an impact. I mean, there's barely any pre 2000 Audi's left on the road these days, and the same was true even 10 years ago.

The cars got scrapped in disproportionate numbers because of the scandal and a leaky coolant filter is not the same as a car that suddenly kills grandpa by smashing itself unbidden through a wall.

And I still see 5000s here and in Europe. And PLENTY of Audi 80s and 90s. (Model not year)
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917
Tesla announced Q4 earnings call for Jan 29. Elon is tweeting pictures of meteors hitting dinosaurs. Pretty sure it's going to be a positive announcement.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Phoenix, AZ
The cars got scrapped in disproportionate numbers because of the scandal and a leaky coolant filter is not the same as a car that suddenly kills grandpa by smashing itself unbidden through a wall.

And I still see 5000s here and in Europe. And PLENTY of Audi 80s and 90s. (Model not year)

Well, people don't scrap perfectly working cars. Well, I should say they don't get scrapped, as scrapyards will sell them instead.

As for Europe, I'm also guessing that people take better care of their cars there. They were more unreliable than their fellow European rivals of the time, and there's not many left even compared to similarly low selling cars, at least here in the US. Same for VW's of that era as well, they just weren't very good.
 

Waaghals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
859
I am fundamentally skeptical of "unintended acceleration"-complaints. Most of the time they are just the driver pressing the wrong pedal.
The car accelerating when locked and with nobody in it seems very strange, though.

Edit: The whole Audi-thing was a hit piece. 60 minutes modified the car so they could get it to accelerate even when the brake was depressed.
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917
I'd also like to point people to this post back in 2018 when similar accusations were made. For those of you saying "lol software people making cars."


It likely has happened in other vehicles, you likely just had time to correct the mistake in your pre-EV vehicles. Unlike their sluggish ICE counterparts, the Model S/X/3 will immediately respond to a throttle request. You don't have the same time to react, consciously or unconsciously, to the mistake before action is taken by the vehicle. In the case of the S/X/3, you're likely to have moved the vehicle a significant distance prior to figuring out that you screwed up, where in an ICE, especially an automatic, the engine is likely to rev and gears need to be changed, yada yada, in response to the throttle mash... generally enough time to realize your error. I've almostmade a pedal misapplication mistake several times in the past with multiple different vehicles... fortunately not in any catastrophic situation. We're not infallible creatures. You get in a zone of habit, feel like you know what's going on, and when something unexpected happens you'll swear you were doing everything normally the way you've done it 10000 times before, when in reality you just screwed up. It happens.

Tesla's accelerator pedal is actually the exact same drive-by-wire pedal used in several other manufacturer's vehicles. It's highly proven technology over decades. Nothing special at this point. No Tesla secret sauce here. Just two hall effect sensors with slightly different curves for redundancy and position validation. If they don't agree, the car doesn't move. If one has an issue, the car reduces power and gives an error. I've personally never seen one of these throttle assemblies have a problem because they're literally as basic as these things can get. It's plastic, a spring to return the pedal to rest, and two hall effect sensors for positioning. They're rock solid on reliability and used in millions of vehicles.

Tesla's side for sensing this goes even further to improve safety. They have two independent systems monitoring and logging the pedal sensors, isolated from one another. They both log the read position from both sensors. If anything doesn't exactly agree, the car doesn't move, gives an error, and reduces power to the point where you can barely do 0-60 in a minute.

The autopilot side of things also is not capable of accelerating the car at any major speed. The AP system just tells the motor, "this is how fast I want to be going and this is how quickly I want to get there" and the inverter firmware maps out a curve to get the car there based on the data, clamped internally to extremely reasonable values as far as acceleration goes. (Deceleration is another story, since AP is capable of commanding full regen and full braking.) The fastest AP can do 0-60 on its own is pretty pathetic, overall. I've tried it. The car will not launch even when commanded to go to 90 MPH at max longitudinal acceleration rate. It just gradually ramps speed, just as if you were at a light behind a vehicle with AP engaged. Nothing sudden about it.

I went a step further and modified the section of inverter code that limits the acceleration rate. No dice. The two other systems inside the drive unit immediately sent the system into limp mode when I tried to command massive acceleration digitally. To be able to do a full digital launch with no pedal application I had to modify the firmware in three different systems to bypass probably two dozen different safety checks. Long story short, it's simply not possible for the car to command massive acceleration on its own.

Going even further, the throttle map for acceleration is super accurate. It can interpolate 2^16 throttle positions with reasonable accuracy... which is impressive, since the ADC is technically something like 10-bit, and we're working with a throw distance of maybe a couple of inches at the end of the pedal. (Edit: Correction/clarification: The crosscheck ADC is 10-bit, the primary is actually 16-bit and doubled for redundancy on each input... so the throttle position is actually read 8 times in hardware for comparison.)

Finally, if the brake is applied, three different devices report this. There's the brake pedal switch, the iBooster, and the ESP modules. All are able to sense and report brake pedal application, and the three systems in the drive unit accept these in a binary OR fashion (if any report the brake is applied, the brake is applied). If the brake is applied even a tiny bit, the car is incapable of accelerating at full power. At best, if the accelerator is already pressed, the car will apply something like 5% of power for about a second before fully cutting power due to both pedals being applied. Those that think they had their foot on the brake and suddenly accelerated, try it yourself. Go somewhere safe with open space in front of you, apply the brake, and mash the accelerator. You'll either go no where, or at most move at super low power for less than a second (depending on the exact internal state of the system, which would be too complicated to get into full detail here).


Overall, I have a lot of beef with Tesla over many things... but this is one aspect where they did their homework and did it right. I'd argue that Tesla's throttle setup is probably at least twice as safe if not more than any other drive-by-wire throttle system out there. There are some many independent checks that it is just impossible for the car to do something like full acceleration without the drive explicitly commanding it, either intentionally or unintentionally, via the throttle pedal.


Of course, humans are going to human... and thus never fully accept responsibility for their actions or mistakes when there is a way to push that onto someone or something else. But my advice is to just get over it, keep the car in chill mode, and move on. In this particular case, your wife made a mistake, caused some damage to the vehicle, and that's the end of it. No sense trying to argue otherwise... especially in the case of a Tesla vehicle with its extensive logging and redundancy. Should someone ever take such a case to court and try to go against the data, I couldn't see how a reasonable judge or jury could possibly see this as anything other than what it is.

This guy went further and offered anyone $1,000 to give him the data where a failure occurred, no one has yet.

That "paper" about sudden acceleration being related to encoder failure is complete garbage and has no basis in reality.

I've debunked it elsewhere around here, but probably buried.

Immediately you can reject the entire thing when it says that the encoder and accelerator pedal share a 5V source. Tesla's design doesn't do this, even in the earliest inverters. In fact, Tesla outputs all six lines for the accelerator pedal directly with no sharing (Power 1, Power 2, Return 1, Return 2, Sense 1, Sense 2). Almost anyone can debunk this paper in 5 minutes by crawling under their car, pulling one connector, and testing a few things with a continuity meter.

Let's say that in some imaginary world, somehow this failure mode exists (it doesn't), and it can drag an accelerator pedal sense line, or both, to 5V. Welllllll... there are hardware and software interlocks on the accelerator pedal sense that then immediately reject (as if the pedal were not pressed, ie 0%) the input from the pedal. The pedal has TWO sensors, both with different outputs, that have to match. 5V and 5V doesn't line up with the expected output. Tesla goes even further than is even necessary here (since the software is perfectly capable on its own to detect this discrepancy). The hardware side of the pedal sensor has a clamp where if either input exceeds their expected voltage by a reasonable range, it'll disable the sensing of it, throw a code, and it doesn't even make it to the software side (sw sees 0% press).

So even if you believe the encoder failure nonsense, you can also debunk this by simulating such a failure: just unplug your accelerator pedal, and short pins 6 to 4 and 1 to 3 on the car side... which would put the 5V reference outputs from the motor into the sense lines for each of the sensors in the pedal. If you want to make it a shared 5V reference, short 1,3,4, and 6 all together. Regardless, I'll bet ya the car doesn't suddenly accelerate...

Any takers on my bet yet?
I'm fine with this being investigated though. Obviously, mistakes in cars can happen and if something is wrong I'd want to know and see it fixed. I'm just not going to jump to conclusions with such little detail and clear bias on the lawsuits part. Doesn't mean they'll be wrong, but does make it suspect.
 
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Dralos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,072
Not a Tesla fanboy by any stretch but I thought that in the past this was mostly just people accidentally pressing the accelerator. I think it was Toyota that had a bunch of issues and a lot of them were found to be operator error. Could be wrong though, just going off of memory.
I was about to post this. But good they look into it.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Well, people don't scrap perfectly working cars. Well, I should say they don't get scrapped, as scrapyards will sell them instead.

As for Europe, I'm also guessing that people take better care of their cars there. They were more unreliable than their fellow European rivals of the time, and there's not many left even compared to similarly low selling cars, at least here in the US. Same for VW's of that era as well, they just weren't very good.

You are welcome supply comparative receipts for your claim.







Oh and one more anecdote for the pile - I had a five cylinder turbo - only car I could afford when I first moved to the states and in five years I had to change the oil and replace a four dollar cable.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
Washington
Oh and one more anecdote for the pile - I had a five cylinder turbo - only car I could afford when I first moved to the states and in five years I had to change the oil and replace a four dollar cable.

I don't think it was a 5000 but we had a 1994 Audi something (I think equivelant of what today's A3 is). that we just sold last year. Had more than 200k miles (and we bought it with highish miles too) and was pretty reliable. Biggest problem it had was user maintenance error (husband put on the timing belt backwards which blew the engine... he then ended up fixing the engine). I think the coolant system blew at one point too (that's when my husband bought a newer audi and kept it as a second car for me to drive in the snow). I called it the green monster cause nothing stopped it. By the time we sold it it had gotten slow, needed a bearing, engine light kept going on, but it kept going. Sold it to an Audi fan who last we heard was still enjoying it. Replaced it with a newer Audi which hopefully will last us just as long (and is much faster and a station wagon, Yay!) <- because my husband is nice and knows I'm terrified of driving in the snow but prefer small/compact/sporty cars. Though the wagon is fun and faster than my car but my car is still smaller and I love that small car feel.

I've always heard the steroetype of Audis being unreliable. But honestly, my husband prefers them so we've gone through a few and so far I haven't actually experienced that to be the case. Though my husband works on his cars himself and knows audis pretty well so it may be he knows how to keep them maintained well.

Anyways, back to the subject nothing I"ve read so far has me convinced this isn't user error. In fact that quote of people's experiences with the "sudden acceleration" some one posted has me more convinced it is user error. IT seems every one said they were hitting the brake pedal and the car would accelerate... which is the same symptom every other scare about sudden acceleration has had and every single time it turns out panicking humans are not good at realizing that they are hitting the gas pedal. I don't know why people keep falling for this shit.

Sure, investigate it but unless investigation comes up with solid evidence I'm going to remain highly skeptical. And I'm certainly not going to condemn the car manufacturer until it's proven this time it actually is different and the sudden acceleration is for the first time ever not user error. It's also interesting that it's hitting Tesla this time, a company that has a leader who has a lot of people who hate them... seems there would be motivation to try to make him look bad (don't get me wrong, I don't like Musk, his whole ordeal with those kids stuck in the cave has me convinced he's a narciccist but you can't deny that there are a lot of people who would love to make him look bad. I'm guessing my dad is jumping for glee about this news, he loves hearing bad things about Musk. I just wish he didn't hate Musk for all the wrong reasons <- republican and doesn't believe in global warming).
 
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Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I don't think it was a 5000 but we had a 1994 Audi something (I think equivelant of what today's A3 is). that we just sold last year. Had more than 200k miles (and we bought it with highish miles too) and was pretty reliable. Biggest problem it had was user maintenance error (husband put on the timing belt backwards which blew the engine... he then ended up fixing the engine). I think the coolant system blew at one point too (that's when my husband bought a newer audi and kept it as a second car for me to drive in the snow). I called it the green monster cause nothing stopped it. By the time we sold it it had gotten slow, needed a bearing, engine light kept going on, but it kept going. Sold it to an Audi fan who last we heard was still enjoying it. Replaced it with a newer Audi which hopefully will last us just as long (and is much faster and a station wagon, Yay!) <- because my husband is nice and knows I'm terrified of driving in the snow but prefer small/compact/sporty cars. Though the wagon is fun and faster than my car but my car is still smaller and I love that small car feel.

I've always heard the steroetype of Audis being unreliable. But honestly, my husband prefers them so we've gone through a few and so far I haven't actually experienced that to be the case. Though my husband works on his cars himself and knows audis pretty well so it may be he knows how to keep them maintained well.

timing belts used to be the equivalent of a McGuyver booby trap that you could only defuse by replacing them at exactly 59,999.9 miles. One more foot and BLAM the entire marque explodes simultaneously. Even Hondas.

I'm on my second Audi- 2017 A4 and I'd have gotten the AllRoad but the virtual cockpit was one year behind the sedan.

my new dream car is the upcoming absolutely ridiculous RS6 avant.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
Washington
timing belts used to be the equivalent of a McGuyver booby trap that you could only defuse by replacing them at exactly 59,999.9 miles. One more foot and BLAM the entire marque explodes simultaneously. Even Hondas.

I'm on my second Audi- 2017 A4 and I'd have gotten the AllRoad but the virtual cockpit was one year behind the sedan.

my new dream car is the upcoming absolutely ridiculous RS6 avant.

The timing belt broke cause he installed it wrong (he was replacing it as maintenance and guess had a brain fart. He realized his mistake soon as he turned the car on but it was too late by then. He's not incompetent by any means at all, in fact I'd say he's probably more competant than most people, but anyone can make a mistake).
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Phoenix, AZ
You are welcome supply comparative receipts for your claim.







Oh and one more anecdote for the pile - I had a five cylinder turbo - only car I could afford when I first moved to the states and in five years I had to change the oil and replace a four dollar cable.

My only receipts is working at a VW dealer (we serviced a lot of audi's for some reason too) and seeing the problems they had, and any VW product really through the 2000's.

I'm not debating that the unintended acceleration thing hurt sales, only that their cars weren't very good from my experience compared to their rivals. Like I said, it could be that just most people didn't take care of them, but from what I've seen I certainly wouldn't buy one.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
Washington
My only receipts is working at a VW dealer (we serviced a lot of audi's for some reason too) and seeing the problems they had, and any VW product really through the 2000's.

I'm not debating that the unintended acceleration thing hurt sales, only that their cars weren't very good from my experience compared to their rivals. Like I said, it could be that just most people didn't take care of them, but from what I've seen I certainly wouldn't buy one.

I think they do require people to take care of them. It's one fo those things that take care of it and it will last you a long time but don't and it will be a piece of junk. I think it is better a car for people who know about the cars and maintenance vs. some one like me who just wants her car to work (I love my Toyota. But my husband loves his audis he's had and I've loved the older ones he lets me use for snow cars and maintains himself). I will say his audis keep running but they do seem to have small issues more often (though my toyota probably won't start now cause it's been unused for a week in cold weather. they designed it to hold too small of a battery for the little things it needs when it's off and if you don't put a trickle charger on it, it will kill the battery in 2 weeks in warm weather tops, 1 week in cold. And it is almost clockwork reliable about this trait).
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
My only receipts is working at a VW dealer (we serviced a lot of audi's for some reason too) and seeing the problems they had, and any VW product really through the 2000's.

I'm not debating that the unintended acceleration thing hurt sales, only that their cars weren't very good from my experience compared to their rivals. Like I said, it could be that just most people didn't take care of them, but from what I've seen I certainly wouldn't buy one.
I bought a used a6 2.7t once... Mannn it was so cool when it worked. Turbos and tranny went.