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U.S. Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer calls for either the 25th amendment or impeachment
- Thread starter Regulus Tera
- Start date
IANAL, but the general idea is that Pence invokes the 25th and Trump says no you and then Congress has 21 days to either override (never happening) or confirm Trump is still President. Meaning the House could just sit on it until the 20th at which point it becomes moot. This would also theoretically prevent any further pardons.
Yeah, all they need is Pence and a majority of Cabinet members to strip Trump of his powers for 2 weeks. Congress could then run out the clock for the remainder of the term.
This really needs to happen, like now.
As always, Republicans will quickly look at the split polling numbers from their ever radicalizing base and go into self-interest damage control. Meaning they will avoid it completely or begin blame-shifting/downplaying like the last impeachment.
Id say the only way this works is the 25th amendment, whereby Republicans get to of course play the game they love to play with Trump, which is as bad faith ally that will gladly advance his extremism to ingratiate themselves with the extremists in order to stay in their graces and hold onto power, but with more and more resignations it's just going to mean fewer and fewer non-sycophants and loyalists to carry such an action out.
Trump literally asked for Pence's head on a platter yesterday. Pence has political aspirations he has no desire to tank. And after all he's done the pardon would get challenged this time
The 25th Amendment, proposed by Congress and ratified by the states in the aftermath of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, provides the procedures for replacing the president or vice president in the event of death, removal, resignation, or incapacitation. The Watergate scandal of the 1970s saw the application of these procedures, first when Gerald Ford replaced Spiro Agnew as vice president, then when he replaced Richard Nixon as president, and then when Nelson Rockefeller filled the resulting vacancy to become the vice president.
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
25th Amendment
I think it's likely. Senate Republicans suck but they were directly affected by this latest stunt. Most of them except for skidmarks like Cruz and Hawley want him gone ASAP
They ain't that friendly. Trump apparently constantly belittled Pence throughout his time in office, and as of yesterday Pence is furious with Trump. The party is beginning to turn against them because now they've let the political equivalent of Frankenstein's monster loose, and many pundits/politicians are beginning to look to Pence for leadership. They're ready to buck him if it comes to that.
Lindsey Graham is such a fucking flip-flopper you never know if he's gonna put Trump's balls in his mouth or take a shit on him.
Anyone who pardons him will be in for it. I doubt Pence would do this for the man who literally tried to kill him yesterday.
Thanks. I really hopes she's going to impeach and not waste our time.
Good. This needs to be done. Trump can not remain in office.
A huge part of Schumer's issues were that he was in the minority and had to careful to not imperil Senate chances. Now that we've won the Senate we'll see a stronger Schumer.
A huge part of Schumer's issues were that he was in the minority and had to careful to not imperil Senate chances. Now that we've won the Senate we'll see a stronger Schumer.
Trump literally sicced a mob onto Pence for daring to do his job properly in counting the votes.
Pence is not going to pardon him now.
So Pence could invoke the 25th amendment... Trump disagrees... 6 days later congress convenes for upwards of 21 days. And that's the end because Trump has 13 days left.
If Pence invokes the 25th amendment, Trumps presidency is effectively over.
Fuck, you need 2/3rd of the senate and house if the president fight this.
This will never happen.
Yeah, I wouldn't expect the Senate to remove him. The 25th is the best route for early removal, which is why I begrudgingly support it. Though we should focus on ensuring a transition of power exists and nothing like yesterday is encouraged to happen again either way. Trump will be out in two weeks regardless.
Yeah, hard to tell overall but there's no benefit at all for him to defend trump at this point so that probably informs what he's going to say.
Thanks. That flowchart a few posts down covers it pretty well too.The 25th Amendment, proposed by Congress and ratified by the states in the aftermath of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, provides the procedures for replacing the president or vice president in the event of death, removal, resignation, or incapacitation. The Watergate scandal of the 1970s saw the application of these procedures, first when Gerald Ford replaced Spiro Agnew as vice president, then when he replaced Richard Nixon as president, and then when Nelson Rockefeller filled the resulting vacancy to become the vice president.
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
25th Amendment
www.law.cornell.edu
My biggest hesitation with either route is Pence deciding to immediately pardon Trump for all Federal crimes once he has been removed.
On the other hand, it has to be done for public safety at this point, and being the first president removed by impeachment (or to simply be impeached twice by the House) would actually set precedent and force Senators to go on record.
Once Trump theoretically responds saying he is fit for office and his cabinet/Pence write a second letter disputing that fact Trump loses access to all Presidential power. The 21 days still remain for the House to make a decision but Trump does lose his powers during that time.
Just adding some clarification.
pence and trump may not be on good terms but pence also has absolute zero backbone and will do whatever seems like the best play for his team, he's a slimy professional politician only there to play the game and clearly has no trouble demeaning himself considering he spent the last 4 years babysitting, it's not like trump's behavior is a surprise to him, he knew exactly what he was signing up for and he did it with a smile, he's a spineless servant of republican interests
I wouldnt trust him for a second to do the right thing here or to even stand up for himself
the only reason he finalized the votes yesterday is because he literally had no power or choice over the matter and knows it
i will be shocked if he shows any spine regarding trump, dont count on it
I wouldnt trust him for a second to do the right thing here or to even stand up for himself
the only reason he finalized the votes yesterday is because he literally had no power or choice over the matter and knows it
i will be shocked if he shows any spine regarding trump, dont count on it
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He's getting impeached again almost certainly. Probably not removed, though.
If this doesn't happen, the US keeps the door way too wide open to future — both near and far — incursions on truth and democracy.
I fear that Republicans will allow it, as they have openly and continually done in behavior and policy up until now. They probably want it gone but things just moved too alarmingly quick, whereas the Republicans have made an effort to slowly erode it so they can slowly normalize it, too.
I'd love to be wrong. The US has been so wrong in particularly the last 4 years that loving to be wrong is kind of my whole schtick now.
I fear that Republicans will allow it, as they have openly and continually done in behavior and policy up until now. They probably want it gone but things just moved too alarmingly quick, whereas the Republicans have made an effort to slowly erode it so they can slowly normalize it, too.
I'd love to be wrong. The US has been so wrong in particularly the last 4 years that loving to be wrong is kind of my whole schtick now.
People saying "it won't happen" are missing the point.
You push for consequences to this shit. It would be an absolute dereliction of duty for congressional officials to turn a blind eye to what occurred yesterday and the President and Republicans' roles in it. Passivity is an invitation for escalation.
So punish this shit, and when Republicans block it, have them own the acts.
You push for consequences to this shit. It would be an absolute dereliction of duty for congressional officials to turn a blind eye to what occurred yesterday and the President and Republicans' roles in it. Passivity is an invitation for escalation.
So punish this shit, and when Republicans block it, have them own the acts.
Went against his wishes because he had no fucking choice. Remember that. If he did have the ability to do something he probably would have
It's a fair question, but I think there's three main reasons:
- Short term: stop him from causing more damage with the days he has left.
- Long term: stop him from running for office ever again in the future. Like the first point, it's unlikely to work, but if it did, it would at least have this benefit.
- Longer term (and this one is key: accountability. It shows that as president and elected official, you can't do this shit free of consequences. Even if no conviction follows the impeachment, that will be entirely on the GOP for being spineless, but you gotta keep due process going.
...Huh. Wasn't expecting that. Interesting...
Its of course political to some, but some people are genuinely worried about the safety of the country and its people. Mike Pence was basically acting president yesterday. Trump over the last few weeks has checked out completely and only shown up to incite violence. It may be a short span of time but some sort of leadership is needed.
Correct.
That's why I think they might go through with it this time. Remove that threat.
I believe in my heart that if Dems didn't control the House, yesterday's objection votes would've gone much differently.
If the majority of congress were on board it could be done in a few days. Unfortunately the house republicans are 80% Trump diehards
Hey, he unfollowed Trump on Twitter for a few minutes, I'd say he at least has one vertebrae.
Pence has become meat to the MAGAts. Some were specifically were looking for him when they raided congress yesterday, as they know Trump sees him as a traitor.
Pence will be normalized by the libs as a hero by doing just one simple thing. He already knows Trump has divided him and has banned some of his staff from the White House. The man holding that place is dangerous, and if Pence doesn't even see that -- and traditional Republicans clearly do now - they're bending over for the fascist wing of the party.
Sometimes you just have to stand up against certain shit. This in no way can be left as-is, imo.
