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Ukraine International Airlines jetliner was accidentally shot down by Iranian missiles (UP: corroborated by Canada, Iran admits to it)
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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Trump ordering the assassination of a high ranking official being an act of war, then threatening Iran with any retaliation being met with with disproportional response, then Iran actually doing a strike and being on edge all led to this.
Trumps stupidity created the whole scenario and Iran was incredibly irresponsible in not shutting down civilian airspace but this is what happens when you speak the way that the parties involved have been. Words matter, Trump put everyone on edge and I'm sure Iran was expecting a hard and fast strike after their attack on the bases, thus putting soldiers on edge and a simple miscalculation resulted in this.
When people are unpredictable or unclear in foreign diplomacy, people die, always.
Trumps stupidity created the whole scenario and Iran was incredibly irresponsible in not shutting down civilian airspace but this is what happens when you speak the way that the parties involved have been. Words matter, Trump put everyone on edge and I'm sure Iran was expecting a hard and fast strike after their attack on the bases, thus putting soldiers on edge and a simple miscalculation resulted in this.
When people are unpredictable or unclear in foreign diplomacy, people die, always.
This is one of those rare examples where yes both sides are at fault and there are no "good people" here
Ah so you are hung up on the word "peace". That doesn't change the fact that both our actions and their actions would have been in direct violation and liable for punishment in the International Court of Justice. That is no longer the case. The military conflict long predated Trump but when was the last time we directly attacked them or vice versa? Things were going in a positive direction. Please don't insult our intelligence by pretending what has transpired this past week has been par for the course the past few decades. Assassinating a top government official of a sovereign country is not normal. All this is moot because you really have to be willfully ignorant to pretend Trump doesn't share some blame for ratcheting up tensions.
Soooo the victim isn't the guy who was beaten to death? There's a lot of off-base posts in this thread, but this post is very near the tippy top.
The proper response would be to deescalate things. You know...so 176 innocent people don't die.
But hey, lets act like there's only one party involved in all this.... 🤷♂️
They're all to blame. It's 100% on Iran for shooting this plane down. The current administration also helped push the situation to where it was.
I'm constantly shocked by the degree of heartless dumbassery on display on this forum, and that post is like the perfect example.
Ah yes, the video I posted on the last page some people shouted at.
I was (gracefully and politely) unbanned, so maybe?
Iran should pay reparations and apologize to the family of the victims and ukrain, but i'm certain it will be used to justify violence against iran and war discourse.
My guess is that there were alot of things going on in the sky that night. I assume alot of phones were aimed up.
This has been said a million times already in this thread, but Iran had already shot at the Iraqi bases, and lots of people in Iran might have been expecting retaliation. In a world where we're all super connected to information and everyone has a smartphone, it's not odd for people to be filming the sky after hearing of outgoing missiles/potentially incoming retaliatory fire.
Plane was hit more than once, so people had their phones out. That's what I saw someone here mention.
My current takeaway is Iran is actually completely incompetent. Can't hit a single one of their actual targets, accidentally kills hundreds of innocents. Hard to imagine it isn't an accident caused by increased provocations. Their military is a bunch of incompetent fuck ups. People been talking them up too long, they're actually bottom tier apparently.
I don't know about all of those conclusions, but this should highlight just how quickly and seemingly easily a mistake can be made and just how much those mistakes can cost.
No argument here. Definitely agree both parties led to escalation, that was my point, both countries/administrations contributed to the current tensions in Iran.
I think their attack on the bases was designed to be sufficient to show that they won't be bullied but not so strong to prompt a response. I don't think it's a sign of incompetence although shooting down the airliner is. Russia and the US have both made the same mistake so it's probably best not to have civilian flights in the air when the military is on edge.
Iran actually hit the Iraqi bases pretty accurately, and by all accounts hit the areas where no one was. Also remember that attack on the Saudi oil facility a few months ago? Those were pretty precise strikes.
This however was a major fuck up. The airspace should have been closed and someone fucked up hard. Absolutely pathetic. That's what happens when all you care about is retribution.
So those poor fucking pilots literally tried to land the plane again after being peppered with shrapnel? Thats fucking heartbreaking. Damn.
From some of the more recent reports I've seen, Iran is cooperating fully with Ukraine over this incident.
Now yes, the appropriate thing to do would be for Ukraine to issue a formal apology and pay out those families for the loss of their loved ones. Further those responsible for ordering the strike should likewise face justice, though I myself am not knowledgable enough to say that this is something that would fall under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.
If reports are correct that the plane flew for several minutes as it tried to turn back to land are true, the pilots were well enough to try to land that bird. Just ran out of time with the fires.
They were deliberately aiming for minimal casualties w/ the Iraq stuff, it was designed to allow them to de-escalate while saving face.
It a simple matter of their ambitions/actions greatly outstripping and damaging their economy. Combine that with sweeping sanctions... I mean, people don't protest in the streets (as they were in November) in a place like Iran unless things are really bad.
Iran has the per capita GDP of Jamaica. They're worse off than Iraq even:
GDP per captia rankings
You believe they are skilled enough to do this while on the same day accidentally shooting a commercial plane out of the sky? I don't know.
Yes. They're two very different things. One involves planning and foresight, the other is a split-second response.
Those are two completely different situations. One has nothing to do with the other.
Trump orders killing of Iran dude
Iran is pissed, shoots at shit
Random People take a plane
Plane gets shot down
2020
Iran is pissed, shoots at shit
Random People take a plane
Plane gets shot down
2020
They absolutely are skilled enough to minimize casualties in a deliberate attack while also having a friendly fire incident.
All the latter would take is a faulty friend or foe transponder and a nervous operator...
Friendly fire is a reality of the fog of war. Its such a shame trump's unnecessary provocation culminated in this.
if it was the same number of military all hell would break loose but if it's an oops civilians seems people aren't as enraged bc it was an "accident"
I just don't understand firing that many projectiles and hitting a plane being anything other than pure evil.
you fired missiles. They kill things.
I just don't understand firing that many projectiles and hitting a plane being anything other than pure evil.
you fired missiles. They kill things.
An american vessel has shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988. Do you think the US Navy is unskilled?
Did they on the same day fire at a base and deliberately miss?
I mean, they've never shot down an airplane taking off from their own airport that's for sure.
No. No idea what that has to do with anything. The point is that even military superpowers like the US or the Soviets have done this very mistake before.
Why wouldn't it? There were no NOTAMs, and civilian air traffic still operates in this part of the world. Iran does have airports and passenger aircraft flying in and out..
if they misidentified the plane as an incoming missile or enemy aircraft they were trying to save lives by shooting it down. folks have a problem grappling with the concept of "accident". it's a tragedy.
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