Ukraine International Airlines jetliner was accidentally shot down by Iranian missiles (UP: corroborated by Canada, Iran admits to it)

Skel1ingt0n · Jan 9, 2020

There was a thread a while back about a homeless person who stole a wallet, and then got punched so hard he died (or something like that), and the thread was filled with people blaming the victim who's wallet was stolen and thew the punch.

I'd love to cross compare that with people in this thread who suggest this is the USA's fault and not Iran's.

/end my thoughts that are barely worth the two cents

Kinthey · Jan 9, 2020

Sems4arsenal said:
Kinda weird that someone would be filming this random night sky.

According to people in that twitter thread the plane was hit by multiple projectiles. So they probably started recording after the first explosion

HellforLeather · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
Which they wouldn't have done if Trump hadn't just assassinated one of their generals.

Just...wow. This thread has certainly delivered....not sure what yet, but its delivered.

Trice · Jan 9, 2020

Fuck Iran. Bunch of fucking wankers

Sems4arsenal · Jan 9, 2020

Kinthey said:
According to people in that twitter thread the plane was hit by multiple projectiles. So they probably started recording after the first explosion

So they fired multiple missiles at a commercial plane? Fucking monsters.

Absolutely heart braking

mario_O · Jan 9, 2020

Avitus said:
The missiles involved aren't powerful enough to destroy the structure of something the size of a commercial airliner.

I find that hard to believe. The structure of a plane is very weak. For any kind of missile.
Also, most passengers were iranian citizens. Why would they do that?

Coyote Starrk · Jan 9, 2020

I am genuinely confused as to why some people seem to think Trump doesn't have some measure of blame for this considering he was the one that started all of this shit. Obviously Iran is to blame, but Trump has blood on his hands as well.

This seems like common sense to me.

Dreams-Visions · Jan 9, 2020

HellforLeather said:
Just...wow. This thread has certainly delivered....not sure what yet, but its delivered.

This

EnronERA · Jan 9, 2020

mario_O said:
In the videos I've seen you see a plane on fire coming down until it crashes. No expert, but I don't think a missile would do that. It would destroy the plane mid-air, and we would see the pieces falling down.

My expertise of how AA artillery works comes from random programs on history channel and Ace Combat games, and even I know this isn't how they work lol

Goodacre0081 · Jan 9, 2020

Elven_Star said:
One question remains though. If the plane was hit by a missile, why didn't it explode mid-air? The first video which was published shows a fire and then crash to the ground like 30 seconds later.

Deleted member 62028 · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
I am genuinely confused as to why some people seem to think Trump doesn't have some measure of blame for this considering he was the one that started all of this shit.

I mean what the hell?

Probably because he didn't

DonnieTC · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
I am genuinely confused as to why some people seem to think Trump doesn't have some measure of blame for this considering he was the one that started all of this shit.

I mean what the hell?

Last month there was that attack on the US embassy and the rocket that killed a US civilian contractor and injured 4 other US service members that might have also escalated things.

maabus1999 · Jan 9, 2020

Avitus said:
The system in question is fully IFF capable.

If it's a SA 15 it would depend what version and if they upgraded it as the original IFF was more of a military only version as it was designed in the Soviet era. An investigation would determine that. Normally for a unit like that they should get a queue from a more integrated defense system that is tracking ADS signals and civilian traffic. Someone screwed up in that chain.

Avitus · Jan 9, 2020

Goodacre0081 said:

Worth noting that the missile used on MH17 had a warhead about 5 times larger than the one that would have hit this 737.

LookAtMeGo · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
I am genuinely confused as to why some people seem to think Trump doesn't have some measure of blame for this considering he was the one that started all of this shit. Obviously Iran is to blame, but Trump has blood on his hands as well.

This seems like common sense to me.

Nah Im with you. He didn't fire the missile that hit the plane but his sloppy dick swinging lead to this shit.

ElectricBlanketFire · Jan 9, 2020

mario_O said:
In the videos I've seen you see a plane on fire coming down until it crashes. No expert, but I don't think a missile would do that. It would destroy the plane mid-air, and we would see the pieces falling down.

You wouldn't see pieces of a plane falling out of a dark sky on a cell phone video.

julian · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
I am genuinely confused as to why some people seem to think Trump doesn't have some measure of blame for this considering he was the one that started all of this shit. Obviously Iran is to blame, but Trump has blood on his hands as well.

This seems like common sense to me.

I don't get it. It's like they've wiped out the last week or think it was a year ago or something. Nobody is saying Iran is blameless. I'm very confused how one could reach that conclusion by anything being said.

myzhi · Jan 9, 2020

I know rightfully that many people have issues with US Intelligence, but when it comes to detecting missile launches and airborne explosions, they can pick them up any around the world, especially if it's an area they are concentrating on. Weren't the US first to report a Russian missile down Malaysian M17 flight too?

Kay · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
I am genuinely confused as to why some people seem to think Trump doesn't have some measure of blame for this considering he was the one that started all of this shit. Obviously Iran is to blame, but Trump has blood on his hands as well.

This seems like common sense to me.

yeah this is Iran's big fuck up but weren't just randomly on high alert.

I guess since my question is 'would have happened with a president or administration who wasn't donald trump and the republicans' and since my answer is somewhere between no and hard to say he has a share in the blame

Coyote Starrk · Jan 9, 2020

julian said:
I don't get it. It's like they've wiped out the last week or think it was a year ago or something. Nobody is saying Iran is blameless. I'm very confused how one could reach that conclusion by anything being said.

Exactly. Nobody is saying that Iran is blameless. They are just pointing out that if Trump hadn't killed their general then none of this would have happened.

And now there are random low post accounts coming out of the woodwork to excuse it all as if the US did nothing wrong. Its baffling.

Deleted member 11413 · Jan 9, 2020

Skel1ingt0n said:
There was a thread a while back about a homeless person who stole a wallet, and then got punched so hard he died (or something like that), and the thread was filled with people blaming the victim who's wallet was stolen and thew the punch.

I'd love to cross compare that with people in this thread who suggest this is the USA's fault and not Iran's.

/end my thoughts that are barely worth the two cents

The fact that you think that it WASN'T the fault of the man who beat someone to death proves your thoughts aren't even worth 2 cents.

Scuffed · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
I am genuinely confused as to why some people seem to think Trump doesn't have some measure of blame for this considering he was the one that started all of this shit. Obviously Iran is to blame, but Trump has blood on his hands as well.

This seems like common sense to me.

Had Iran been under active siege at the time I would agree with you but this operation of theirs was done at thier leisure so they had plenty of time for precautions. This is on them.

Dreams-Visions · Jan 9, 2020

Scuffed said:
Had Iran been under active siege at the time I would agree with you but this operation of theirs was done at thier leisure so they had plenty of time for precautions. This is on them.

yep.

Coyote Starrk · Jan 9, 2020

Scuffed said:
Had Iran been under active siege at the time I would agree with you but this operation of theirs was done at thier leisure so they had plenty of time for precautions. This is on them.

But that's the entire point of what i am saying. Yes they are at fault. They fucked up and that's on them. I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying is that none of it would have happened at all if Trump hadn't tried to start a pissing match with them by assassinating one of their top military leaders. That's on Trump. That's his fault. And as a result of that move Iran decided to go of the offensive to save face and then this tragedy happened.

SirMossyBloke · Jan 9, 2020

Avitus said:
Worth noting that the missile used on MH17 had a warhead about 5 times larger than the one that would have hit this 737.

Was it also the type to proximity detonate iron shrapnel?

Edit: On the 737 I mean.

Deleted member 43084 · Jan 9, 2020

Twitter is currently in a semantics war over who is to blame.

Lausebub · Jan 9, 2020

The person firing the missile, the officials deciding not to halt all commercial flights and Trump is to blame. The former two more than the latterin my opinion.

ItsBobbyDarin · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
Exactly. Nobody is saying that Iran is blameless. They are just pointing out that if Trump hadn't killed their general then none of this would have happened.

And now there are random low post accounts coming out of the woodwork to excuse it all as if the US did nothing wrong. Its baffling.

And if that general did not commit a lot of war crimes, then Trump would not bomb him. It's a stupid take, this is all on Iran.

DonnieTC · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
Exactly. Nobody is saying that Iran is blameless. They are just pointing out that if Trump hadn't killed their general then none of this would have happened.

And now there are random low post accounts coming out of the woodwork to excuse it all as if the US did nothing wrong. Its baffling.

I think most people who are disagreeing with you is because your post frames it as if everything was fine until Trump decided to kill their General. Maybe their General would still be alive if our embassy wasn't attacked. But then you can say well maybe our embassy wouldn't have been attacked if we didn't launch strikes against Syria and Iran that killed 25 Iranian military personnel. But then you can say maybe we wouldn't have launched those strikes if a rocket didn't end up killing one of our defense contractors and injuring 4 other US military personnel. Things have been screwed up in Iran for a while and trying to pinpoint an exact point where escalation truly "began" is near impossible.

Coyote Starrk · Jan 9, 2020

ItsBobbyDarin said:
And if that general did not commit a lot of war crimes, then Trump would not bomb him. It's a stupid take, this is all on Iran.

So it's okay for the US to kill foreign military leaders as long as they are bad people and damn the consequences?

The fuck kind of logic is that?

Deleted member 5359 · Jan 9, 2020

I don't understand why there was commercial air traffic being allowed to take off and land when Iran was on high alert.

Kay · Jan 9, 2020

ItsBobbyDarin said:
And if that general did not commit a lot of war crimes, then Trump would not bomb him. It's a stupid take, this is all on Iran.

I'm sorry, but you don't actually believe this right? that Donald Trump wouldn't have assassinated him if he wasn't a bad guy.

finalflame · Jan 9, 2020

Scuffed said:
Had Iran been under active siege at the time I would agree with you but this operation of theirs was done at thier leisure so they had plenty of time for precautions. This is on them.

Bingo.

ItsBobbyDarin · Jan 9, 2020

And is Trump or Obama to blame for the plane that got shot down over crimea?

Do we blame the US also, for the plane that got shot down during the cold war?

Bryo4321 · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
Exactly. Nobody is saying that Iran is blameless. They are just pointing out that if Trump hadn't killed their general then none of this would have happened.

And now there are random low post accounts coming out of the woodwork to excuse it all as if the US did nothing wrong. Its baffling.

If Iranian militias didn't attack the us embassy before the drone strike this wouldn't have happened either. It was definitely an idiotic series of escalations.
I totally get your point, but at the end of the day Iran blew up a plane in their own air space with their own weapon systems.

HellforLeather · Jan 9, 2020

Damn you Trump!

Why didnt you air drop pamphlets on how to properly operate a SAM and how to correctly identify civilian aircraft at the same time when you bomb the general!?

gutter_trash · Jan 9, 2020

Iran are a bunch of jerks for not ordering all commercial flights to remain grounded while their S-A-Ms were activated

bunch of jerks

Huey · Jan 9, 2020

Posts placing the entirety of the blame at Trump's feet are just as absurd as those saying he shoulders none of it. This was a response to an unprovoked assassination of a general that prior administrations had deliberately not carried through on because of the risks. Collateral civilian loss of life is one of the major dangers of provoking unstable incompetent governments. No one should be saying Iran is not responsible for this, but no one should be saying Trump is blameless.

DazzlerIE · Jan 9, 2020

https://twitter.com/_austrian/status/1215377490966974494

Austrian Airlines halting flights to Iran

Coyote Starrk · Jan 9, 2020

HueyFreeman said:
Posts placing the entirety of the blame at Trump's feet are just as absurd as those saying he shoulders none of it. This was a response to an unprovoked assassination of a general that prior administrations had deliberately not carried through on because of the risks. Collateral civilian loss of life is one of the major dangers of provoking unstable incompetent governments. No one should be saying Iran is not responsible for this, but no one should be saying Trump is blameless.

100% this

julian · Jan 9, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
Exactly. Nobody is saying that Iran is blameless. They are just pointing out that if Trump hadn't killed their general then none of this would have happened.

And now there are random low post accounts coming out of the woodwork to excuse it all as if the US did nothing wrong. Its baffling.

The posters trying to paint this as some natural escalation of what's been happening between Iran and the US is certainly interesting.

Jag · Jan 9, 2020

Blade Runner said:
I don't understand why there was commercial air traffic being allowed to take off and land when Iran was on high alert.

It's a fuck up all around. Either bad communication or they didn't want to telegraph their intentions not thinking that some random SAM operator had an itchy trigger finger.

I don't recall if the Tehran air defenses have ever been fired in defense (since the Iran/Iraq conflict). Iran usually operates on other territories.

Mudcrab · Jan 9, 2020

Shugga said:
Ah yes the country that assassinated a general in Iraq last week is trustworthy on this matter.

I mean I guess they were this time

Avitus · Jan 9, 2020

SirMossyBloke said:
Was it also the type to proximity detonate iron shrapnel?

Edit: On the 737 I mean.

Yes, the SA-15 primarily counters smaller targets like cruise missiles, drones and the like. Fighter planes are actually very lightly armored if at all so it doesn't take much fragmentation to bring them down. A civilian airliner has a lot of redundant systems and protection measures like self sealing fuel tanks that would make it unlikely to be destroyed in place but very likely to lose control/be consumed by an onboard fire. It wouldn't cause instantaneous in-flight separation like a lot of people are arguing. The effect is essentially like a really large hand grenade going off next to the fuselage. Depending on the angle of attack, it may have killed the pilots outright like MH17.

Titanpaul · Jan 9, 2020

Fuck Trump and fuck the Iranian administration. They're both reckless and their actions ended with the deaths of civilians.

Deleted member 58401 · Jan 9, 2020

A plane crash is about as horrific as it gets, but to realize the passengers were likely well aware of what was happening as it happened makes it feel even worse.

For what, too? In this whole conflict, both sides just kept losing. Literally, I can't think of anyone on either side who is better off today. The main outcome for everyone on earth is that everything is less stable.

I get that Trump didn't blow up this plane. Suggesting he did is either wrong or a gross oversimplification of a few year's worth of hostilities with Iran. But it's hard not to think of, say, the last minute or so of life for the people on that plane and not imagine that asshat eating meatloaf and ice cream at Mar-a-Lago.

It's a pretty stark reminder that he is totally fucking clueless. Too bad half the country doesn't know where Iran is on a map or care. Because this would be a good lesson on the consequences of electing idiots.

Coyote Starrk · Jan 9, 2020

julian said:
The posters trying to paint this as some natural escalation of what's been happening between Iran and the US is certainly interesting.

Yeah I don't get the people acting like what's happened is just how it goes or whatever. None of this has been normal. None of this is justifiable in any way.

Deleted member 43 · Jan 9, 2020

Kay said:
I'm sorry, but you don't actually believe this right? that Donald Trump wouldn't have assassinated him if he wasn't a bad guy.

Well, I mean, otherwise he just would have just been a random dude, so......yeah? I think it's safe to say if Soleimani was a flower shop owner, he wouldn't have been specifically targeted for assassination.

poros1ty · Jan 9, 2020

There's a lot of blame to go around for this one, obviously including the both the Trump administration and Iran for getting us to this point. But then you also have blame to be placed on the airline who thought it was fine to fly into a conflict zone, risking the lives of a plane full of passengers.

Zip · Jan 9, 2020

Avitus said:
The warhead the missile uses is relatively small, it wouldn't detonate the plane in a cartoonish manner. The point is to bring the plane down, not destroy it in place. The primary method is through fragmentation. It might not have been enough to immediately detonate fuel but rather cause leakage of fuel and hydraulics that the plane eventually succumb to, along with the loss of flight controls.

People were likely fully cognizant of what was going on the whole way down and that's horrifying.

Seriously. Especially with a little one of my own now, just thinking of the kids on that plane makes me very sad.

Ukraine International Airlines jetliner was accidentally shot down by Iranian missiles (UP: corroborated by Canada, Iran admits to it)

What year is this?

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