No, It's Trumps fault they were on high alert and had their fingers on all manner of triggers.
Trump is not solely to blame, nor is Trump blameless in this.
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Ukraine International Airlines jetliner was accidentally shot down by Iranian missiles (UP: corroborated by Canada, Iran admits to it)
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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No, It's Trumps fault they were on high alert and had their fingers on all manner of triggers.
Trump is not solely to blame, nor is Trump blameless in this.
Absolutely. Iran deserves absolutely no benefit of the doubt whatsoever.
Evil government that's increasingly been warmongering in the region. Why the hell is the first thought of people here to jump to "nope not me I'm not trusting US officials".
Trump is clearly a dangerous idiot, but bloody hell Iran (-ian government) deserves every bit of shit it's gonna hopefully get.
Has this been posted yet? Looks a lot like a SAM strike, if it's from the incident as suggested.
Do you want America to regime change Iran?
Because if not, why are we talking about them like that?
America never tried to have peace with Iran, I don't think it's impossible, and I think it's worth a try.
In this case I believe they are telling the truth the plane was shot down. Saw another video where you could see a lit missile like object contact the plane. Then when you see how they lost total communication etc it had to be that. Absolutely awful all around. While Iran has a lot of the blame the trump admin helped exacerbate this issue for this to happen and both can be true. Iran is to blame and the butterfly effect of the trump admin exacerbating issues in the Middle East helped to make this happen.
It's as impossible as peace between Palestine and Israel.
Iran wants to spread its tentacles throughout the region. It's been doing so for decades, more brazenly so in the last few years.
The US is so good at getting into wars.
And the US has tentacles all over the globe.
I don't think there's any good guys here.
And the US has tentacles all over the globe.
I don't think there's any good guys here.
Both Trump AND Iran are to blame for this tragedy.
Boom, can't touch me.
We just posting videos from random twitter accounts? Has anyone credible confirmed this video?
Boom, can't touch me.
We just posting videos from random twitter accounts? Has anyone credible confirmed this video?
The missile barrage was a direct result of Trumps actions, but this incident is an indirect consequence at best. Iran isn't some scared kid waiting for a burglar to show up. Having your professional military personnel shoot down a slow moving civilian airliner at an airport is a colossal fuckup if true.
This doesn't look credible to me. Looks like target practice or the interception of a rocket/artillery, based on what I'm familiar with. Other videos showed the plane falling to the ground as an extremely bright ball of flame.
I don't think it's true, and I don't know how you can be so sure since the US never ever tried it.
I also think it's really not true that Israel is destined to just fuck the Palestinians forever, I grew up in Israel and I think peace is very possible, the US just need to stop enabling Israel's shitty ass right wing governments.
I also think if we don't want the US to go to war with Iran then maybe we shouldn't talk about it in terms like "spread its tentacles". If you think the US should go to a war with Iran to regime change it, you should probably say it so we can talk about it.
Nope, just going around PPRuNe, but it lines up with reports from U.S. intelligence that heat signals commensurate with a SAM strike were detected. Telegram is also huge in Iran and how a lot of grassroots media and information dissemination happens, so makes sense that's where it'd be getting shared.
I would guess that the aircraft didn't burst into flames immediately. The other videos of the aircraft on fire just before impact are fairly low to the ground. From the point of loss of ADS-B data to crash site is 2-3 minutes of flight time. This video only shows 15 or so seconds post alleged intercept.
Also, look at the following coordinates: 35.489244, 50.907144
Camera angle about north-northwest from there.
U.S. fighter jets have much more sophisticated anti-SAM defenses when compared to a commercial airliner, so no, it's not clear it would've been shot down (but seems Iran would've tried, and who can blame them).
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She could be the WORST person in the world; racist, sexist etc. But there's a decisive difference between animosity between us and actual direct action. One im just giving em the middle finger when I mow my lawn, the other im waiting for him to punch me in the face when I see her husband.
A fuckup that the US, with the greatest military in the world has personally done before killing hundreds of innocents. Shit happens, things don't work 100 percent of the time, and human error. Iran is gonna have alot of explaining to do but to pretend tragedies like this are outliers are false; its just we view airplane crashes as an abhorrent accident because it could happen to any of us but your business as usual friendly fire and innocent targets getting bombed we kinda shrug at when we are at war and people with weapons are on edge
On top of the pictures of Russian anti air missle casings laying in the crash site from people on the ground. (Weapon system Iran obtained from Russia).
Which is also corroborated in the reporting.
Well the bright ball of flame is short before impact. While its flying that's not the plane lights, thats the fire started by the attack in the Twitter video. If the video is genuine
Reading this about the Ukrainian flight it makes this terrifying to know how easy it is to shoot down passenger planes if Iran was using one of these systems.
I don't know if the video is real or fake, but it's really strange that someone was there at 6am to accidentally record a video seconds before the incident.
Meh I don't think so. I mean you have all the news about fighter jets etc and then you hear a plane? I'd at least take a look.
There's no need to both sides this.
US does f***ed up shit and should absolutely get criticised for it.
Same with Iran. There's no point bringing up the US tentacles when Iran is almost solely to blame here.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Israel will for the foreseeable future continue to openly as well as insidiously encroach upon Palestine to take it over entirely, in a similar way to what Iran would like to do eventually.
Change doesn't just come from the government. It comes mostly from the people, and in both Israel and Iran there is great support from the people for expansionist policies.
I know it's popular to say "I blame the government, not the people" in threads like this, but I think that's just absolving "the people" of their responsibility in the government's crimes. This all obviously applies to the US as well before anyone tries what-abouting again.
Fair point. I should have said potentially. But the intent was still there
Not strange at all, given the circumstances. People in Tehran were expecting to see American planes or missiles overhead.
Also, to throw fuel on the fire...there's an argument to be made that its in the US's best interest to sell this as an Iran fuckup because of how important Boeing is (by definition to big to fail) and they absolutely cannot afford another scandal.
Even if it ends up being shitty upkeep/conditions on the Iran side
Even if it ends up being shitty upkeep/conditions on the Iran side
You do realise that the Sunni v Shiite conflict has been ongoing for 1400 years right? Forget spreading tentacles in one region, the fucking Saudis have been spreading their filth all across the muslim world, and it's been Saudi influenced Sunni terrorists that have murdered thousands in the west. America are actual friends with those pieces of shit. Why would you think that Iran wouldn't attempt counter the existential threat to Shiites that Sunni despots pose?
Only one group here continuously performs acts of terror in the west, and the US is allied to their motherland. The Iranian regime is a despicable government, that exists in a sea of equally despicable governments. It ain't fucking Shiite groups blowing up concerts and running people over in vans in the west though is it? How come the US isn't targeting Saudi royals and other rich Saudi citizens that are terror financiers?
What? This is the perfect time to both sides this. They're both to blame. These fuckers keep escalating and keep flexing and it's fucking dumb.
Neither one gives a shit about their people when they keep putting them at risk over their bullshit war games.
You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I am not gonna agree with what I think is a really off view of the country I grew up in.
Sorry.
You are still not telling me what you want to do, but if we're planning on sanctions and bombs, I think we need to really stop pretending that we're doing it for the poor Iranian people, because they're not helped by that and they don't want that.
Not reasonable or plausible, given the track record of the plane and the details of the incident, regardless of a missile strike or not.
He was the general of the Quds Forces, and probably has dozens of operations going at any moment.
Sure, long term his demise might have some effect, if they can't find a competent replacement, but that's hardly given. Guy wasn't exactly the youngest, and I assume his second in commend knows the MO of the Quds Forces (Iran's CIA, simply speaking) well enough so that nothing will change about Iran's day-to-day operations on that matter.
So no, I don't see any argument that Suleimani's death has an immediate short term benefit for the US, or security in the region. And this kind of escalation, without a clear benefit, some plan, whatever, is really insane. Don't get me wrong, I don't give a shit that a murderous POS is dead, I'm worried that this kind of madness will continue. The Middle East is a powder keg, and no place for an idiot like Trump to play with fire
You're right, that's reasonable.
The Treaty is Amity is not a peace treaty but rather a treaty of friendship that also contains provisions for resolution of disputes through the International Court of Justice. It also was signed two decades prior to the Revolution and only still exists because both the US and Iran have used the Article of the treaty where both agree to the jurisdiction of the ICJ while ignoring the part about friendly relations.
No? The military conflict long predated Trump.
Trudeau just said multiple sources say Iran shot it down, including Canadian intelligence, so it's not just coming from the US.
"the evidence indicates the plane was shot down by an Iranian SA missile"
There it is.
A missile strike has always been the most likely cause by a enormous margin. There was no chance it was an engine failure. Not with how the airplane lost total control and fell apart in mid air.
yeah but you yourself said "trump didnt shoot down a plane" which was equally reductive as well as something nobody had actually said.
i understand your point however.
Trudeau said the evidence shows it was shot down by a SAM, possibly by accident.
I understand being skeptical of US officials, but since it's being corroborated by Canada.... yeah.
In plane crash threads everyone becomes an expert on planes and has decades of experience investigating crashes as well as the ability to piece together a plane engine with their eyes closed.
He just punted on the issue, gave a non answer, which is probably the smart thing to do
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