No, It's Trumps fault they were on high alert and had their fingers on all manner of triggers.
Trump is not solely to blame, nor is Trump blameless in this.
This absolving Iran of its own responsibility is stupid. Full stop. Trump could have threatened to nuke Iran and it wouldn't have mattered. You're a country with military intelligence on high alert, not some child wandering down the street who got spooked by a stranger.
No, It's Trumps fault they were on high alert and had their fingers on all manner of triggers.
Trump is not solely to blame, nor is Trump blameless in this.
Do you want America to regime change Iran?Absolutely. Iran deserves absolutely no benefit of the doubt whatsoever.
Evil government that's increasingly been warmongering in the region. Why the hell is the first thought of people here to jump to "nope not me I'm not trusting US officials".
Bloody hell.
Do you want America to regime change Iran?
Because if not, why are we talking about them like that?
America never tried to have peace with Iran, I don't think it's impossible, and I think it's worth a try.
Has this been posted yet? Looks a lot like a SAM strike, if it's from the incident as suggested.
Has this been posted yet? Looks a lot like a SAM strike, if it's from the incident as suggested.
No, we didn't. We had a deal where the US would withdraw some sanctions and in return the Iranians would stop seeking a nuclear weapon. The whole proxy war business with Iran funding and supplying Shia terrorists against American allies was specifically something that was cut out of the nuclear deal because the Obama administration prioritized nuclear nonproliferation over the much harder (and probably impossible) task of solving the Sunni-Shia conflict.
I don't think it's true, and I don't know how you can be so sure since the US never ever tried it.It's as impossible as peace between Palestine and Israel.
Iran wants to spread its tentacles throughout the region. It's been doing so for decades, more brazenly so in the last few years.
Nope, just going around PPRuNe, but it lines up with reports from U.S. intelligence that heat signals commensurate with a SAM strike were detected. Telegram is also huge in Iran and how a lot of grassroots media and information dissemination happens, so makes sense that's where it'd be getting shared.We just posting videos from random twitter accounts? Has anyone credible confirmed this video?
This doesn't look credible to me. Looks like target practice or the interception of a rocket/artillery, based on what I'm familiar with. Other videos showed the plane falling to the ground as an extremely bright ball of flame.
U.S. fighter jets have much more sophisticated anti-SAM defenses when compared to a commercial airliner, so no, it's not clear it would've been shot down (but seems Iran would've tried, and who can blame them).So if that jet was a US fighter then it would have been shot down. Guess Iran wasn't playing
That doesn't matter. You're missing my point. In a history of conflict, pointing to one part of the chain of events to assign blame is ridiculous....especially when you can point to something more direct (I.E. Iran's incompetence). We went to war because we wanted to (and made up reasons to do so), not because of anything specific Iraq did.
So in this analogy, the wife (Soleimani) is an innocent, unrelated party?
The missile barrage was a direct result of Trumps actions, but this incident is an indirect consequence at best. Iran isn't some scared kid waiting for a burglar to show up. Having your professional military personnel shoot down a slow moving civilian airliner at an airport is a colossal fuckup if true.
On top of the pictures of Russian anti air missle casings laying in the crash site from people on the ground. (Weapon system Iran obtained from Russia).People not believing this is disturbed. Some people in the other thread were theorizing about the different types of engine failure. It happened during a bombardment mind you, what a bizarre coincidence that would have been.
This doesn't look credible to me. Looks like target practice or the interception of a rocket/artillery, based on what I'm familiar with. Other videos showed the plane falling to the ground as an extremely bright ball of flame.
The training required to properly operate the system can take weeks or months, which may explain why the Malaysia plane was destroyed in the first place. The problem with the SA-11 is that it's difficult to properly identify and track targets, but easy to fire missiles. "The skill comes in knowing what you want to shoot at," says Cordes. That's because the SA-11's radar system shows the same "blip" for all different targets. The operator sees an aircraft's altitude, air speed, and vector, but not it's size or type, says Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Airliners broadcast a four-digit transponder known as an IFF code that identifies them as civilian aircraft, and the SA-11 system is capable of picking up that information. But the training that goes into properly identifying aircraft takes months, especially since the window for acquiring and firing on targets is just a few minutes.
Has this been posted yet? Looks a lot like a SAM strike, if it's from the incident as suggested.
Meh I don't think so. I mean you have all the news about fighter jets etc and then you hear a plane? I'd at least take a look.I don't know if the video is real or fake, but it's really strange that someone was there at 6am to accidentally record a video seconds before the incident.
The US is so good at getting into wars.
And the US has tentacles all over the globe.
I don't think there's any good guys here.
I don't think it's true, and I don't know how you can be so sure since the US never ever tried it.
I also think it's really not true that Israel is destined to just fuck the Palestinians forever, I grew up in Israel and I think peace is very possible, the US just need to stop enabling Israel's shitty ass right wing governments.
Fair point. I should have said potentially. But the intent was still thereU.S. fighter jets have much more sophisticated anti-SAM defenses when compared to a commercial airliner, so no, it's not clear it would've been shot down (but seems Iran would've tried, and who can blame them).
I don't know if the video is real or fake, but it's really strange that someone was there at 6am to accidentally record a video seconds before the incident.
It's as impossible as peace between Palestine and Israel.
Iran wants to spread its tentacles throughout the region. It's been doing so for decades, more brazenly so in the last few years.
There's no need to both sides this.
US does f***ed up shit and should absolutely get criticised for it.
Same with Iran. There's no point bringing up the US tentacles when Iran is almost solely to blame here.
You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I am not gonna agree with what I think is a really off view of the country I grew up in.We'll have to agree to disagree.
Israel will for the foreseeable future continue to openly as well as insidiously encroach upon Palestine to take it over entirely, in a similar way to what Iran would like to do eventually.
You are still not telling me what you want to do, but if we're planning on sanctions and bombs, I think we need to really stop pretending that we're doing it for the poor Iranian people, because they're not helped by that and they don't want that.Change doesn't just come from the government. It comes mostly from the people, and in both Israel and Iran there is great support from the people for expansionist policies.
I know it's popular to say "I blame the government, not the people" in threads like this, but I think that's just absolving "the people" of their responsibility in the government's crimes. This all obviously applies to the US as well before anyone tries what-abouting again.
Also, to throw fuel on the fire...there's an argument to be made that its in the US's best interest to sell this as an Iran fuckup because of how important Boeing is (by definition to big to fail) and they absolutely cannot afford another scandal.
He was the general of the Quds Forces, and probably has dozens of operations going at any moment.Presumably he had deliberate plans to attack Americans in the middle east which is why he was offed. Its not like they picked the guy for no reason
Meh I don't think so. I mean you have all the news about fighter jets etc and then you hear a plane? I'd at least take a look.
You're right, that's reasonable.Not strange at all, given the circumstances. People in Tehran were expecting to see American planes or missiles overhead.
The Treaty is Amity is not a peace treaty but rather a treaty of friendship that also contains provisions for resolution of disputes through the International Court of Justice. It also was signed two decades prior to the Revolution and only still exists because both the US and Iran have used the Article of the treaty where both agree to the jurisdiction of the ICJ while ignoring the part about friendly relations.
No? The military conflict long predated Trump.It's Trump's fault there was a military conflict in the first place, and that there was retaliation.
In plane crash threads everyone becomes an expert on planes and has decades of experience investigating crashes as well as the ability to piece together a plane engine with their eyes closed.And those who said this at first were mocked and called conspiracy theorists. Some people honestly thought it was a coincidence. Come on y'all... Really? That would be one helluva coincidence... Please.