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U.S. may cut some Moderna vaccine doses in half to speed rollout, official says

Squarehard

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,895
finance.yahoo.com

U.S. may cut some Moderna vaccine doses in half to speed rollout, official says

The U.S. government is considering giving some people half the dose of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine in order to speed vaccinations, a federal official said on Sunday. Moncef Slaoui, head of Operation Warp Speed, the federal vaccine program, said on CBS' "Face the Nation" that officials were in...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com
The U.S. government is considering giving some people half the dose of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine in order to speed vaccinations, a federal official said on Sunday.

Moncef Slaoui, head of Operation Warp Speed, the federal vaccine program, said on CBS' "Face the Nation" that officials were in talks with Moderna and the Food and Drug Administration about the idea. Moderna's vaccine requires two injections.
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"We know that for the Moderna vaccine, giving half of the dose to people between the ages of 18 and 55, two doses, half the dose, which means exactly achieving the objective of immunizing double the number of people with the doses we have," Slaoui said.

"We know it induces identical immune response" to the full dose, he added.

Moderna and the FDA could not immediately be reached for comment.
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The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said it had administered 4,225,756 first doses of COVID-19 vaccines in the country as of Saturday morning and distributed 13,071,925 doses.
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TeenageFBI

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,242
Er, I'm under 55 and I would very much like the full dose.

I'm glad Biden's taking over soon. I could use a few years of relative sanity.
 
fragamemnon

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,846
to be honest, I can get behind this if the science is there and confirmed by someone outside of the administration.

The newer more transmissible variant is going to get more and more dominant and containment measures are buckling already. Every state has these inconsistent lockdown policies due to lack of federal support where you can do X clearly risky thing because it generates state/local taxes but can't do Y thing that is much safer.
 
Wanace

Wanace

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,020
How about they just get their logistics together? Put the country's best Factorio players on that shit jfc
 
Hollywood Duo

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,980
I'm not entries opposed to this if it really gets things moving and as long as the science is sound. We need to turn the corner as fast as possible then we can be more methodical.
 

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
10,774
between trying to force a vaccine approval (when it was already likely to happen) and now this, what the fuck are people supposed to think
 
Vanillalite

Vanillalite

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
Loud Wrong said:
The woman leading Biden's Covid team was just on CNN saying the science ISNT there. All this will do is increase the number of people who will opt out. Trust matters.
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It reminds me of the movie Road Trip when the kid asks about the shortcut. Then the reply is if everyone used it that it would just be called the way.

Like if the science were actually sound this would just be the normal dosage for that age group and not a half dose. None of this shit makes sense.
 
Tbm24

Tbm24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,329
I don't understand how this is presented/approved as a 2 dose vaccination and now when there's concern on speed of roll out, they're talking about chopping it in half.
 
Jarmel

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
New York
My understanding is that manufacturing in of itself isn't the issue, nor is distribution. It's the actual vaccination process after its reached the hospital or medical center.

This feels like a bottleneck you might fix after all the other issues have been resolved.
 
SapientWolf

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
Grym said:
yes confuse people more. kill more trust. that will help
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I think there are people willing to take a half dose now rather than wait. The important thing is that they're fully informed and that there's compelling data to support the updated dosage.

Ultimately, we don't want the case rate to exceed the vaccination rate for very long, because that means we're in a losing race with the virus.
 
Xando

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,323
Maybe they should use the 35 million doses they have stored wherever before cutting doses
 
SwampBastard

SwampBastard

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
11,040
ELy0UeG.jpg
 
Loud Wrong

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,074
SapientWolf said:
I think there are people willing to take a half dose now rather than wait. The important thing is that they're fully informed and that there's compelling data to support the updated dosage.

Ultimately, we don't want the case rate to exceed the vaccination rate for very long, because that means we're in a losing race with the virus.
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You won't see more people lining up for a vaccine they no longer trust.
 
chefbags

chefbags

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,289
Yeah clearly this is gonna go well. The fuckery of this administration is just beyond words.
 
MadScientist

MadScientist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
918
Thank god Biden is president in a couple weeks and we can have an administration that listens to the science again. We don't need half doses, we need better logistics in delivering the doses we already have. Also, we need to cut the debate on one vs two doses. There is not enough clinical evidence to get rid of a booster second dose. There is actually pretty good data suggesting less immunity without that second booster dose.
 
nekkid

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Might as well just use the same syringe on the two people next to each other in the queue. Save a bit of time.
 
Tapiozona

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
If a half dose gives the exact same results, I think it's a great idea. Even if it's less effective which apparently it isn't, getting more people immunity quick will end all this much faster than this slow rollout.
 
SapientWolf

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
Loud Wrong said:
You won't see more people lining up for a vaccine they no longer trust.
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The people that don't trust it yet aren't signing up to get it anyway. The people that do trust it but don't want the new dosage will still have that option. The people that do trust it and are fine expirementing with this new dosage now have a new and potentially faster option.

The only way this goes bad is if they change the dosage without informing people or do not offer the original dosage to the people who already signed up for it.
 
Loud Wrong

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,074
Amazing how quickly we transitioned from "We're testing too much!" to "We're giving people too much vaccine!"

SapientWolf said:
The people that don't trust it yet aren't signing up to get it anyway. The people that do trust it but don't want the new dosage will still have that option. The people that do trust it and are fine expirementing with this new dosage now have a new and potentially faster option.

The only way this goes bad is if they change the dosage without informing people or do not offer the original dosage to the people who already signed up for it.
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There's a whole lot of fence sitters for whom this would be the last straw. Like it was said earlier, trust matters, and the current administration is doing nothing but eroding that trust further at the worst possible time. That'll all change in two weeks. The head of Biden's Covid team said a half dose *might* work but there's no science yet to support it, so she won't support it until there is. She's right.
 
AndyD

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
Vanillalite said:
If this is true why wouldn't this just be the recommended dosage for that age group?
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Could they have initially gone with the easiest path in having an identical dose regardless of age/condition for maximum effectiveness, but in retrospect now trying to maximize distribution? I mean there's nothing wring with refinement as you go.
 
ty_hot

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
Depending on the immunity given it might actually be better for the whole population that more people get half the dose, than that double get the full one. Obviously everyone would prefer a full dose, but that means the double of the time to vaccinate everybody.
 
stew

stew

Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,188
Why 1/2 dose, and not 1/3, or 1/4, or 2/3? Why didn't the labs already try? We would need a ton of data for that.
 
Aaronrules380

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,472
SapientWolf said:
The people that don't trust it yet aren't signing up to get it anyway. The people that do trust it but don't want the new dosage will still have that option. The people that do trust it and are fine expirementing with this new dosage now have a new and potentially faster option.

The only way this goes bad is if they change the dosage without informing people or do not offer the original dosage to the people who already signed up for it.
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It's still dangerous because underdosing the vaccine might cause a selective pressure that leads to vaccine immune viruses. Basically the same fears about people not getting the second dose apply here- If this leads to a weaker but still existent immune response it might facilitate the growth and evolution of viruses the vaccine isn't effective against and ruin it for literally everyone
 

The Llama

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,026
If the science supports the claim that a half-dose gives the same level of immunity as a (current) full dose, then I'm all for it. However, I'm curious where that claim is coming from, as I don't think there is a phase 3 trial where they used half-doses, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. That said, I'm not super familiar with the approval process for different dosage levels - do you even need a full phase 3 trial, or do you basically just run a phase 1/2 trial and if the data is effectively the same its deemed ok?
 
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