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GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,513
Ok so you go with fuel economy, is it just on new cars or are you rolling this back on existing ones on the road? A Dodge Charger is smaller than Ford Bronco in terms of overall height, but a Charger gets 30 highway to the 21ish of a Bronco. Yet a Charger is a long, wide, powerful car that is equally as unnerving to be near as a cyclist than the smaller overall base of a newer Bronco.



Not trying to be ins ome gotcha here, just genuinely want people to think on this rather than some broad sweeping thing like "tax em". Because as you've been doing, you're applying nuance to the blurred lines in many of the cars today.
Ok, I am not sure what the charger looks like has anything to do with this. The Charger doing 30 MPG means that it produces less CO2 than the Bronco so it's more friendly to the environment. There are SUV that product less CO2 than sedans and vice versa. Fuel economy is proportional to their CO2 footprint. It's really that simple.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,141
SUVs and trucks should be banned from all city centers. They demand too much space and make life more dangerous for everyone else.
 

dammitmattt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
246
So you NEED an SUV so you can take your dogs and kid long distances for recreational activities?

You clearly have never traveled with a toddler and large dogs. Do you know how much shit you carry around with a young child? And what's up with your idiotic assumption that this is for "recreational activities" lol. We're going to see family and friends, or we're going on vacation for a week at a time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,699
New Orleans
You clearly have never traveled with a toddler and large dogs. Do you know how much shit you carry around with a young child? And what's up with your idiotic assumption that this is for "recreational activities" lol. We're going to see family and friends, or we're going on vacation for a week at a time.
Maybe "3+ hour road trips" are unnecessary?

And how are vacations not recreational??
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,314
Wait. So, somebody lets the air out of my tires overnight and I'm supposed to go to www . youtube . com to find out why they did it?
"Hey Royalan, have you taken care of the deflated tyres yet? We have to pick the kids up from school."
"Not yet. I need to watch a few YouTube segments to learn my lesson first. Tell the kids to wait."
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
You clearly have never traveled with a toddler and large dogs. Do you know how much shit you carry around with a young child? And what's up with your idiotic assumption that this is for "recreational activities" lol. We're going to see family and friends, or we're going on vacation for a week at a time.

Flip the question a bit. How much stuff can you manage with? Probably a lot less than people take for convenience.
 

Jogi

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,445
Lol they are going after people's suvs?! 😂 Go after their private jets or the overconsumption of meat which are two massive environmental threats. It's like dousing a candle when your house is on fire.
 

toy_brain

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,207
I don't see the connection with the fanaticism that goes with the gun ownership debate, the whole tie to American mythology that's all manipulated and wrapped up with it. British people aren't as particularly attached to SUVs (compared to having a different car) in the same way that some Americans are to their guns..........
Oh its not a 1:1 thing at all.
I believe the kid these days say "similar energy" to try and get the point across, though Tendo might have been more on-the-money when they said its more of an attachment to personal property thing.
A (nice) car is a big investment. There is a lot of 'you' in that vehicle - at least a lot of the time and effort you spent to afford it, so there is that emotional attachment, which has been on full display in this thread.
The emotional investment in firearms may have different origins (less money, more lifestyle), but it seems to manifest in much the say way when threatened, at least judging by a lot of the replies.
 

Cow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,625
Using SUV ownership as a indication of wealth is bunk sorry can we stop doing it? People buy second hand cars and you can get suv's for <£5k that way and it's fairly common to get a loan to buy a 2nd hand car like that in the UK.

In general and with other similar actions. I'm starting to think that a lot of "activism" is just people using a cause to feel righteous and justify being an absolute asshole to individuals. Even groups like XR regularly fall into this, stopping the trains from running at canning town station was peak stupid even if I do think them gluing themselves to the doors of the hq's of banks and other polluting companies was great.



people don't often go on 3 hour road trips in the UK. It's a small country. Also most are probably more likely to get on a plane for a holiday here which is way more polluting. It would probably be better for the environment if we did encourage people to drive more for local vacations. Even better if we improved our trains and encouraged more use of then, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good

It says luxury SUVs in the article. There also appears to be pics on the sun site that include a G Wagon and a fairly new Range Rover.

You are having a meltdown over something that is rather tame. I am looking at the actions of these people and thinking it is not even close to enough. If you feel strongly about a cause, you do have to cause damage. There has to be a big financial cost and it has to be consistent before people start taking notice. Going around with signs isn't enough. Nobody takes notice or cares. Start causing damage, and you get attention immediately. That's how it works.

And yes, individuals who are part of the problem do need to be treated as such. Corporations and governments need to be held accountable. But so do individuals. You seem to have an issue with individuals being held accountable for their actions. It is not just hyper rich people and corporations that are a problem. Individuals are too. Normal individuals with normal jobs. Being a 'normal' person with a family going about life does not excuse you from this. The only people I can excuse are those living in poverty and disabled people.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
on twitter they are describing it as a 'jolly night out', which again feels really counter-productive in framing it as a fun group activity rather than something that needs to done.

 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,217
This board sure is pro-union, but I wonder if they people proclaiming to be have actually been on the receiving end of a labor strike in public transport or something. Guess what, it's inconvenient and you're not the one who's at fault for those workers' working conditions. I think some of the people here are full of it or would flip at the first sign they have to adapt their life ever so slightly to others' concerns.

It's been pointed out but this is also an area with good accessibility to alternate modes of transportation, personal and public. Not the same as the US which built for car commutes.
 
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Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
This board sure is pro-union, but I wonder if they people proclaiming to be have actually been on the receiving end of a labor strike in public transport or something. Guess what, it's inconvenient and you're not the one who's at fault for those workers' working conditions. I think some of the people here are full of it or would flip at the first sign they have to adapt their life ever so slightly to others' concerns.

It's been pointed out but this is also an area with good accessibility to alternate modes of transportation, personal and public. Not the same as the US which built for car commutes.

On the other hand though the only single reason they're going after peoples tires, a minor help to the environment compared to almost anything else, is because they themselves don't wanna be inconvenienced by doing something time consuming that would actually make a difference and interfere with their lives.

The real reason is that going after random peoples tires in the night is incredibly easy and has little chance of repercussion or interference for them.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,314
pretty big discussion from a very small action, seems like a success to me
I'd agree if anything important was being discussed about the actual issue. The major throughline of the discussion is about the people deflating tyres looking like fools here, and that's what's gotten this to 18 pages. That, and weird / intentional misrepresentations as to why everyday people might own SUVs (wealth, excess, etc).
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,300
I mean by this bar, you are a problem too everyone is a problem and we should treat everyone with distain because its impossible in our current environment to be good enough to avoid getting targeted and harassed by your own admission.



London has had weekly strikes since the start of the year. I'm okay with it i just plan around the strikes. and I'm not sure id describe Edinburgh as ideal when it comes to public transport, better than a lot of areas in the US sure, it has a tram and busses. but good enough to completely forgo cars? I doubt it.
It is always funny seeing the self-righteous setting a standard that not even they can live up to, and then chastise everyone else for not living up to that very standard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,209
Ok, I am not sure what the charger looks like has anything to do with this. The Charger doing 30 MPG means that it produces less CO2 than the Bronco so it's more friendly to the environment. There are SUV that product less CO2 than sedans and vice versa. Fuel economy is proportional to their CO2 footprint. It's really that simple.

Because part of this debate is around safety too, not just C02. These people also said they'll be coming after EVs and Hybrids, so they see "SUV" as a whole as a danger/threat.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,975
The anti-SUV crowd on Era is fucking hilarious. This isn't noble. This does nothing for climate activism. This is a purely selfish and idiotic endeavor by a bunch of edgy losers.

Wonder if people ever get tired of their performative bullshit that doesn't actually affect change. It's so pathetic.
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
I don't get it.

People need to be better at directing their energy and picking their targets. Instead of agitating SUV owners, get them on board by finding a common enemy. SUV, and vehicle owners in general probably don't particularly care for gas prices. Rally against the corporate greed and selfish fucks on top of these companies that make them too damn high, and that's also responsible for climate change to a notable degree.

There really ought to be like a huge movement against that shit. But instead people organize to dump air out of people's tires.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,975
ITT we're reminded of how vanilla many ERA pseudo-leftists are, with how infuriated they claim to be by some inconsequential minor direct action.

Direct action that does what, exactly?

This is a silly, most likely ineffective political gesture. No need to get upset.

Glad we agree it's performative bullshit by a bunch of privileged assholes.

Too many "ineffective political gestures" by so-called progressives who don't actually give a fuck about climate change, living standards, racial equity, social justice causes etc, etc, etc because to them this is all a game and the attention they seek is what they're really after.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
ITT we're reminded of how vanilla many ERA pseudo-leftists are, with how infuriated they claim to be by some inconsequential minor direct action. If I'm reading properly, they're only deflating, not slashing tyres and thus generating some inconvenience to seemingly privileged folks.

What's up with the "well you may need SUVs when you're living in the wilderness!" arguments too? The activists clearly state they're targeting urban residents that in the vast majority of cases don't need gigantic vehicles to move around.

This is a silly, most likely ineffective political gesture. No need to get upset.
If we agree it's both inconsequential and likely ineffective, what's the point if all it does is annoy people (with a chance of collatoral damage to the vehicles of those less able and a high chance of eventually causing traffic accidents) for a 'jolly night out'. This sounds a lot like 'pseudo leftists' too.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,606
Picking a random street in a wealthy neighborhood and tagging houses would be a more targeted form of 'activism'

It would also be just as dumb.

But sure keep telling yourself that some random strangers you know nothing about deserve this because you decided their vehicle falls into your laymen definition of increasingly arbitrary car classifications.

As other have pointed out there are SUVs that drastically range in size, weight, energy type, efficiency, safety features, etc.

Sure you can assume everyone that drives an SUV is a selfish asshole. You can also assume that everyone that eats meat is a selfish asshole, or everyone that participates in consumer markets is a selfish asshole, or anyone who owns a business is a selfish asshole.

At the end of the day, when you go around assuming everyone is an asshole, you are the asshole.
Everyone driving an SVU when it isn't an absolute necessity (which I'm not the arbiter of) is an asshole. Even if it's an emergency doctor.

It needs to be hammered down that SUVs are more dangerous and in particular lethal for pedestrians.
They cause more accidents and more accidents involving SUVs are lethal.

Like if someone smokes tobacco, whatever climate is fucked anyway and I'm no angel when it comes to that but if you smoke in the presence of non smokers w/o their consent or kids you're an asshole.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,504
Glad we agree it's performative bullshit by a bunch of privileged assholes.

Unlike SUV owners in this particular rich place they targetted

Too many "ineffective political gestures" by so-called progressives who don't actually give a fuck about climate change, living standards, racial equity, social justice causes etc, etc, etc because to them this is all a game and the attention they seek is what they're really after.

You just made that up. "You can't possibly care about X causes because you dislike SUVs"
 

Coen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
721
Antwerp, Belgium
SUV and truck ownership is inexcusable in this day and age. You don't need to drive a car like that all day, every day. Yes, it might be more convenient every once in while. But nothing's stopping you from renting a bigger model for vacations or day trips, there's even plenty of car sharing initiatives. I honestly don't care if you think you need to own one of those things, but at least have the decency to admit that the environment just isn't worth the inconvenience to you and stop trying to defend it by diluting yourself into thinking you really need one of those things.
 

Cow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,625
I mean by this bar, you are a problem too everyone is a problem and we should treat everyone with distain because its impossible in our current environment to be good enough to avoid getting targeted and harassed by your own admission.

Except I didn't say that. Infact, I talked about how certain people can be excused. This is about self responsibility. Taking self responsibility does not necessarily mean you are perfect, but we reward those who try.

Individuals do have to take self responsibility and try their best. This is the case for all issues we face. You seem to have na issue with asking individuals to take self responsibility.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,209
SUV and truck ownership is inexcusable in this day and age. You don't need to drive a car like that all day, every day. Yes, it might be more convenient every once in while. But nothing's stopping you from renting a bigger model for vacations or day trips, there's even plenty of car sharing initiatives. I honestly don't care if you think you need to own one of those things, but at least have the decency to admit that the environment just isn't worth the inconvenience to you and stop trying to defend it by diluting yourself into thinking you really need one of those things.

Again, these folks claim it's about climate but are also stating they will go after EV and Hybrid SUV as well. This means it's more of a safety issue. But, again, many of the suvs people drive are just 2" taller road height sedans. This isn't 2005 where everyone is rocking Escaldes and Aviators. There's just as many equally dangerous sedan/coupes due to power and size than there are giant SUV and trucks
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Germany
Until governments and politicians really push for a change, nothing will happen. Protests will most likely become much more violent and/or destructive... but what do I care in my car with the AC running at full power while the sun melts everything around me. The younger people that have to deal with the mess our generations leave behind will get very angry. Now Friday for Future and others are protesting peacefully, but I can totally see some of them loosing it in the future.

Take Germany respectively Berlin for example. I have a car (95% for vacations and longer trips) but otherwise my family is a public transport and bike family. I would love to buy an e-cargo bike (up to 25 km/h). I could probably replace everything I do in the city in my car with one. I would most likely even sell my car then (after living with one for a while to see how it goes) and fall back to rental cars and car sharing instead. These things are expensive. But they mean less cars on the road. People using them live a healthier live.

But guess what: sure, EVs up to 65.000 fucking Euro get subsidized with my tax money, but an E-Bike, GOD NO. That won't help the car industry in Germany, and the industries asses is where the politicians are stuck in with their heads. Deep deep inside!
Now they even subsidize the gas prices with 30 Cent / liter (Diesel less I think), and of course that's a lot of bullshit, too. Gas prices artificially climbed in the last weeks because of that. So in the end fucking Shell and Co. get the money. They also want to extend the A100 (highway) for 700 Million Euros (and it will be more in the end, as always). So even more cars. In 2022. WTF


All of this makes me incredibly angry. And even if someone deflates my car tires, this wouldn't make me nearly as mad as the whole situation of the human race speedrunning global warming.
 

aerach71

Member
Sep 25, 2018
584
Ireland
You clearly have never traveled with a toddler and large dogs. Do you know how much shit you carry around with a young child? And what's up with your idiotic assumption that this is for "recreational activities" lol. We're going to see family and friends, or we're going on vacation for a week at a time.

My dude, what do you think recreational means
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
SUV and truck ownership is inexcusable in this day and age. You don't need to drive a car like that all day, every day. Yes, it might be more convenient every once in while. But nothing's stopping you from renting a bigger model for vacations or day trips, there's even plenty of car sharing initiatives. I honestly don't care if you think you need to own one of those things, but at least have the decency to admit that the environment just isn't worth the inconvenience to you and stop trying to defend it by diluting yourself into thinking you really need one of those things.

Some of you live in such a small bubble that you think owning these vehicles isn't needed good grief. Have you tried to jam three 40-50 dogs, plus a family into a car? I guess I can just go rent a SUV when I want to go to a park for a hike… come on.

Not to mention everyone out there using their trucks to haul work material. I'm sure my uncle would have loved hauling his chainsaws and gas/oil canisters around in a car's trunk and backseat.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Germany
Some of you live in such a small bubble that you think owning these vehicles isn't needed good grief. Have you tried to jam three 40-50 dogs, plus a family into a car? I guess I can just go rent a SUV when I want to go to a park for a hike… come on.

Not to mention everyone out there using their trucks to haul work material. I'm sure my uncle would have loved hauling his chainsaws and gas/oil canisters around in a car's trunk and backseat.
Maybe this is a lifestyle our descendants simply won't be able to experience anymore then? Just saying, and I know that I'm as guilty as most others living my comfortable life with my family.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Maybe this is a lifestyle our descendants simply won't be able to experience anymore then? Just saying, and I know that I'm as guilty as most others living my comfortable life with my family.

I don't feel guilty, bc my personal use of a mid sized SUV isn't the problem. Just like my electric scooter isn't the solution.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,657
SUV and truck ownership is inexcusable in this day and age. You don't need to drive a car like that all day, every day. Yes, it might be more convenient every once in while. But nothing's stopping you from renting a bigger model for vacations or day trips, there's even plenty of car sharing initiatives. I honestly don't care if you think you need to own one of those things, but at least have the decency to admit that the environment just isn't worth the inconvenience to you and stop trying to defend it by diluting yourself into thinking you really need one of those things.

jesus christ

yes, some people drive trucks who don't need to drive a truck. some people also drive trucks who do need to drive a truck, yes, basically every day. there are people out there who, y'know, use their trucks for work. you know, like what they were invented for?

the solution isn't to handwave away any need people have for trucks and just assume it doesn't exist and then make weird absolute statements about how it's inexcusable that one size doesn't fit all, the solution is to build more efficient vehicles that meet people's needs, and that includes (some) trucks.

but i guess the people who work in, well, basically any of the trades are just "diluted" and irrational when it comes to their vehicle choice. if only you were there for each and every one of them, when they purchased their vehicles, to let them know what they actually need!
 

Coen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
721
Antwerp, Belgium
jesus christ

yes, some people drive trucks who don't need to drive a truck. some people also drive trucks who do need to drive a truck, yes, basically every day. there are people out there who, y'know, use their trucks for work. you know, like what they were invented for?

the solution isn't to handwave away any need people have for trucks and just assume it doesn't exist and then make weird absolute statements about how it's inexcusable that one size doesn't fit all, the solution is to build more efficient vehicles that meet people's needs, and that includes (some) trucks.

but i guess the people who work in, well, basically any of the trades are just "diluted" and irrational when it comes to their vehicle choice. if only you were there for each and every one of them, when they purchased their vehicles, to let them know what they actually need!

Okay, I might've been a bit harsh. I'm sure there are plenty of people who actually need something to carry something on a daily basis. Although, you know, you could also just get a Mercedes Vito for that, but lets disregard that fact. You know as well as I do that the extraordinary boom in sales of SUVs and trucks over the last decade isn't because of a sudden rises of people doing manual labour. The biggest part of people buying these types of cars are doing so because of status and lifestyle. And that's just not ok.
 
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Sparkedglory2

Member
Nov 3, 2017
6,410
Nah fuck this. Stuff needs to be done, but don't go around messing with peoples cars. You're just messing with their livelihood and means to go to work or whatever at that point.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
Not everyone stays home with the shades drawn. Cmon, this is really the argument now? Taking family to see family is unnecessary? Taking your family to experience something other than home is very necessary.
We can argue anything is necessary at this point and nothing will ever change. This is why we will never actually get anything done regarding climate change
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Okay, I might've been a bit harsh. I'm sure there are plenty of people who actually need something to carry something on a daily basis. Although, you know, you could also just get a Mercedes Vito for that, but lets disregard that fact. You know as well as I do that the extraordinary boom in sales of SUVs and trucks over the last decade isn't because of a sudden rises of people doing manual labour. The biggest part of people buying these types of cars are doing some because of status and lifestyle. And that's just not ok.

I own a mid sized SUV. My lifestyle includes going to parks to hike/kayak/paddle board and/or camping with my family including 3 medium sized dogs. That's "not ok" to you?
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
I generally dislike SUVs, I think too many people drive them for status and perceived safety only. But it's one of the more popular class types out there so making sweeping generalizations like I just did, as well as others here has done is not helpful.

SUV is sadly not a rich people vehicle anymore (in North America), and have replaced the mini-van, popular when I was growing up, as a car of choice for families who do need all that extra space to pick up the kids, or do recreational activities with the family on weekends.

The disconnect seems to be people who are perhaps single, unmarried, and living in the city somewhere, assuming a middle class saburban family 'doesn't need an SUV'. So all the recriminations around lifestyle is useless , wasteful rhetoric that makes one feel good but doesn't really move the issue.

If we want to have a discussion about lifestyles and environmental impact, let's also talk about the PS5 in your living room sucking up gobs of power.
The bigger question is where taxation and policy should target around lifestyle choices we all make.
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,255
The anti-SUV crowd on Era is fucking hilarious. This isn't noble. This does nothing for climate activism. This is a purely selfish and idiotic endeavor by a bunch of edgy losers.

Wonder if people ever get tired of their performative bullshit that doesn't actually affect change. It's so pathetic.

It's all performative all the time. Doesn't matter if your performative nonsense actually turns away people who are your fellows and support and very much agreeing with your cause. If you've pushed them away with your performance. You still win online!
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Germany
I own a mid sized SUV. My lifestyle includes going to parks to hike/kayak/paddle board and/or camping with my family including 3 medium sized dogs. That's "not ok" to you?
what is a mid sized SUV where you live? That would be a X3 or Rav 4 here.

I personally don't even have a problem with these cars. They are not bigger or anything than a Minivan. Just less practical and smaller inside