Two Namibian sprinters banned from Olympics 400-meter event due to the same testosterone rule that blocked Caster Semenya

[Loudninja]

Yeah they can fuck off so sick of this shit.

Namibian runners Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi were disqualified from the 400m event at the 2021 Olympic Games in Tokyo for having testosterone levels that surpassed International Olympics Committee regulations.

Reuters reported the Olympic hopefuls didn't score within the range of testosterone allowed to compete in women's events from 400m to 1600m.

World Athletics, the governing body of athletic competitions across the globe, dictates female athletes maintain a testosterone level below five (5) nmol/L.

"The results from the testing centre indicated that both athletes have a naturally high testosterone level," the Namibia National Olympic Committee wrote in a statement. "According to the rule of World Athletics, this means that they are not eligible to participate in events from 400m to 1600m."

The same testosterone restrictions disqualified South African runner and Olympic gold medalist Caster Semenya from competing in her preferred event, the 800m, to qualify for the 2021 Olympic Games.

Testing for testosterone levels at international sports competitions first occurred at the 1983 Pan American Games in Caracas, Venezuela to test for testosterone doping. However, Dr. Deanne Adkins previously told Insider naturally high levels of testosterone are not the same as the levels achieved by doping.

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Two Namibian sprinters banned from Olympics 400-meter event due to the same testosterone rule that blocked Caster Semenya

Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi were disqualified from the 400m event at the Olympics for having testosterone levels that surpassed IOC rules.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Futureman]

they have naturally high levels of testosterone and that's why they are banned? huh???

 

[SigSig]

when you are so transphobic, you'd rather ban cis women than rethink your dumbass discriminatory rules

 

[Ducarmel]

Is the European Court of Human Rights still reviewing the testosterone level ban, they need to rule on this faster. Its insane a rule like this exist.

 

[Wrapped in Black]

I want to know who comprises this International Olympics Committee. Ridiculous.

 

[Shodan14]

I want to know who comprises this International Olympics Committee. Ridiculous.

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Help yourself.

 

[MIMIC]

Can someone please explain the issue here? I'm genuinely confused.

 

[abby autopsy]

This is the gender critical future of feminism. Trash

 

[Chikor]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it's all seem to be black athletes.

Can someone please explain the issue here? I'm genuinely confused.

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The IOC set a limit to the allowed testosterone levels in female athlete that is below what some women have naturally.

 

[Vish]

Yay, more ethnic people banned from competing for no reason.

So much for it being the battle of the best in the world.

 

[JohnsonUT]

However, Dr. Deanne Adkins previously told Insider naturally high levels of testosterone are not the same as the levels achieved by doping.

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I agree naturally high levels are not the same as "doping". However, isn't there an issue that you cannot tell the difference between someone with naturally high levels and someone with naturally lower levels that "dopes" to push their levels right to the limit?

For the record the IOC is wrong here, but if they could test for doping they wouldn't need these seemingly random thresholds.

 

[MIMIC]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it's all seem to be black athletes.


The IOC set a limit to the allowed testosterone levels in female athlete that is below what some women have naturally.

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OK I see. I assumed that the word "naturally" was being used loosely.

 

[steejee]

Incredibly fucked up that the IOC is basically dictating people's natural hormone levels.

Imagine the shitstorm if they revoked all of Phelps' gold because his body dimensions gave him an unfair advantage.

 

[808s & Villainy]

I'm actually not sure the best way to determine who should qualify for men's and women's events. It seems testosterone works in the vast majority of cases, but there are exceptions and I have no idea how you handle those. Not to mention testosterone alone doesn't directly determine performance advantages, but they do need to do something because putting everyone in the same events would definitely be a shit show for most women

 

[Humidex]

It's the IAAF at fault here. They've been at this bullshit for years.

 

[Norse]

Should the olympics (or sports in general) have a seperate «class» for trans people? Just classes for men and women doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[Vamphuntr]

This seems rather excessive. What next they are going to ban people with specific genes or body morphologies that gives them an advantage? Link is pretty clear that they have a high normal level of testosterone which implies they have no control on it.

 

[TSM]

Should the olympics (or sports in general) have a seperate «class» for trans people? Just classes for men and women doesn't cut it anymore.

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No, the IOC established guidelines that are inclusive for trans people. Why should they be othered?

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Should the olympics (or sports in general) have a seperate «class» for trans people? Just classes for men and women doesn't cut it anymore.

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No, this is silly. They're women.

This rule has also impacted non transgender athletes. So…..

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Should the olympics (or sports in general) have a seperate «class» for trans people? Just classes for men and women doesn't cut it anymore.

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That would be super transphobic, and this story is about cis women being gatekept from competing.

 

[Azerth]

if its natural then they should be able to compete. its that simple

 

[Ducarmel]

I agree naturally high levels are not the same as "doping". However, isn't there an issue that you cannot tell the difference between someone with naturally high levels and someone with naturally lower levels that "dopes" to push their levels right to the limit?

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They set a level that is higher than a woman naturally produces so most woman would pass, those that fail are given a chance to explain and usually its cheating but there are the rare individuals that do have biological conditions that naturally show higher than normal testasterone in their bodies. Those woman are given an option to take blockers to supress them to stay within the limit. Which is bulshit they should not have to be forced to take drugs that will do who knows what to their bodies to compete.

Should the olympics (or sports in general) have a seperate «class» for trans people? Just classes for men and women doesn't cut it anymore.

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stop

Trans woman are Woman and trans men are men, as long as they are following their hormone therapy fairly and are within the rules of the IOC they should be allowed to compete in the the event of the gender they identify.

 

[Mesoian]

Man I don't even want to watch the olympics anymore.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

I agree naturally high levels are not the same as "doping". However, isn't there an issue that you cannot tell the difference between someone with naturally high levels and someone with naturally lower levels that "dopes" to push their levels right to the limit?

For the record the IOC is wrong here, but if they could test for doping they wouldn't need these seemingly random thresholds.

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If you have any familiarity with endurance training you will understand that things like VO2 max can differentiate two cardio based athletes. There are some people who are born with just the natural ability to handle things like VO2 and lactic build (iirc Phelps was one of these people) and we don't do anything to limit levels on that.

To try and make a complete level competition is quite literally impossible given the various ways bodies perform differently

 

[Norse]

stop

Trans woman are Woman and trans men are men, as long as they are following their hormone therapy fairly and are within the rules of the IOC they should be allowed to compete in the the event of the gender they identify.

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Should we just stop dividing athletes by gender at all then? Trans who identifies as women will have an advantage and those who identify as men will have a disadvantage as it stands now right?

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Should we just stop dividing athletes by gender at all then? Trans who identifies as women will have an advantage and those who identify as men will have a disadvantage as it stands now right?

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You're being straight up transphobic and using bullshit dog whistling. There are actual studies on this that fully disprove it.

 

[Ducarmel]

Should we just stop dividing athletes by gender at all then? Trans who identifies as women will have an advantage and those who identify as men will have a disadvantage as it stands now right?

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Got examples or research of this advantage of trans woman and disadvantage of trans men.

Because you should tell the scientist that studied this for a living that they are wrong.

 

[thediamondage]

Are they inferring the banned athletes are doping or are they saying their natural levels exceed what they consider normal? Those are two extremely different situations.

 

[Antrax]

If you have any familiarity with endurance training you will understand that things like VO2 max can differentiate two cardio based athletes. There are some people who are born with just the natural ability to handle things like VO2 and lactic build (iirc Phelps was one of these people) and we don't do anything to limit levels on that.

To try and make a complete level competition is quite literally impossible given the various ways bodies perform differently

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Yeah, VO2 max is something you can adjust with exercise (and drugs) but there will always be people born on the higher end of that scale, and you just kinda have to deal with it in athletic competition. Some people have genetic gifts that help them compete.

 

[Platy]

Should the olympics (or sports in general) have a seperate «class» for trans people? Just classes for men and women doesn't cut it anymore.

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You mean like a separate but equal class ?
=P

Also while this news is kinda about how transphobic views are intertwined with racist standards, this is about 100% cis women, not trans people

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Yeah, VO2 max is something you can adjust with exercise (and drugs) but there will always be people born on the higher end of that scale, and you just kinda have to deal with it in athletic competition. Some people have genetic gifts that help them compete.

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Bingo

It's be like IOC banning basketball athletes over 6'2

 

[Palette Swap]

The transphobia x phrenology combo nobody asked for.

 

[808s & Villainy]

Are they inferring the banned athletes are doping or are they saying their natural levels exceed what they consider normal? Those are two extremely different situations.

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More the latter. They essentially have established ranges for what is "normal" for men and women

 

[Trup1aya]

Banning natural advantages now huh? Might as well ban sprinters for being to fast.

 

[Orayn]

People making a fuss about trans athletes often miss that cis women with naturally high testosterone are the ones who actually tend to dominate, but in some cases they also get banned, racistly. Just garbage from top to bottom.

 

[Antrax]

Trans who identifies as women will have an advantage and those who identify as men will have a disadvantage as it stands now right?

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This really isn't true in general. HRT and the uniqueness of the human body from person to person has shown that there aren't hordes of transwomen out here smashing records.

 

[TSM]

Bingo

It's be like IOC banning basketball athletes over 6'2

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There shouldn't be two sets of rules though. If a transwoman wants to compete she is required to maintain a testosterone level below 5 nmol/L, but if someone is cis the sky should be the limit?

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

There shouldn't be two sets of rules though. If a transwoman wants to compete they are required to maintain a testosterone level below 5 nmol/L, but if someone is cis the sky should be the limit?

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Well these women are CIS, and the IOC established the rules so that transgender athletes could compete without ire of the community. The issue is the rule also directly impacts CIS women.

 

[TSM]

Well these women are CIS, and the IOC established the rules so that transgender athletes could compete without ire of the community. The issue is the rule also directly impacts CIS women.

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Definitely wouldn't want any rules meant to be inclusive of trans people to affect cis people? Obviously trans people should be the only ones making accommodations for the rules?

 

[16bits]

its a farce when two athletes with natural genetic advantage are banned because the athletes who are taking performance enhancing drugs can't compete with their ability.

the olympics are a complete mess, just stop it. Athletics is over, just look at the women's 100m record that still stands.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Definitely wouldn't want any rules meant to be inclusive of trans people to affect cis people? Obviously trans people should be the only ones making accommodations for the rules?

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What is your angle here? I don't even know what you're trying to say or implying that I'm saying.

 

[The Adder]

Definitely wouldn't want any rules meant to be inclusive of trans people to affect cis people? Obviously trans people should be the only ones making accommodations for the rules?

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"If a few black women have to suffer then who cares?"

Oh look, I can be a dipshit reductive asshole too. This isn't a fucking zero sum game. A trans woman going through HRT is no more advantaged than anyone else. Possibly even disadvantaged. The rule is bullshit in its entirety applied to any woman that isn't doping.

 

[sangreal]

You can't be naturally gifted athletically
You can't be artificially gifted athletically

what even is sports?

 

[The Albatross]

Man the olympics are really PLAYIN THE HITS today

 

[TSM]

"If a few black women have to suffer then who cares?"

Oh look, I can be a dipshit reductive asshole too. This isn't a fucking zero sum game. A trans woman going through HRT is no more advantaged than anyone else. Possibly even disadvantaged. The rule is bullshit in its entirety applied to any woman that isn't doping.

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Reductive? People are advocating for the rules to only apply to transwomen.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Reductive? People are advocating for the rule to only apply to transwomen.

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The rule is stupid period. We're arguing with people who like to stand on the "well what's fair" soapbox.

 

[TSM]

The rule is stupid period. We're arguing with people who like to stand on the "well what's fair" soapbox.

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Why is a rule meant to be inclusive of transwomen stupid?

 

[Weltall Zero]

What is your angle here? I don't even know what you're trying to say or implying that I'm saying.

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Well, you did say:

The issue is the rule also directly impacts CIS women.

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I know you didn't mean it that way, but it's pretty unfortunate wording to mention cis women being impacted as being "the" issue, singular, as if it wasn't an issue at all otherwise.

 

[tokkun]

If you have any familiarity with endurance training you will understand that things like VO2 max can differentiate two cardio based athletes. There are some people who are born with just the natural ability to handle things like VO2 and lactic build (iirc Phelps was one of these people) and we don't do anything to limit levels on that.

To try and make a complete level competition is quite literally impossible given the various ways bodies perform differently

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I don't think the goal is to make competition completely level.

I think the goal is to avoid a situation where every athlete feels like they have to inject significant amounts of testosterone in order to be competitive.

 

[mentok15]

This is bullshit.

I think the goal is to avoid a situation where every athlete feels like they have to inject significant amounts of testosterone in order to be competitive.

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The article didn't say what their testosterone levels where but I doubt it would be that high for it to be significantly more. Even if they had twice the upper limit of testosterone, 10nmol, that's not that much compared to people injecting. Like the lowest "normal" level for men naturally is around 250nmol.