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newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
batman v the police is an institution. it's not like batman is like 'these guys are doing the best they can but they seem so busy :( i better step in and help', the entire reason batman exists is because of this distrust and ineffectiveness of the police
 

Catshade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,198
Not a comic book reader, but has Bruce Wayne as a millionaire Gotham Mayor (like Bloomberg) been done already? I want that. I'd like to see the duality of a man simultaneously within and outside a system trying to fight its corruption.
 

blanton

alt account
Banned
Jul 28, 2020
1,576
Not a comic book reader, but has Bruce Wayne as a millionaire Gotham Mayor (like Bloomberg) been done already? I want that. I'd like to see the duality of a man simultaneously within and outside a system trying to fight its corruption.
They haven't done it with Batman but they did try it with Green Arrow several years ago in Judd Winick's run.
 

Book One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,814
taking the current state of affairs and discussion over police brutality and pasting it onto a story about the murder of the white, rich and famous Waynes seems kinda misguided.

not too mention 'robbing' and murdering the most well known and connected people in the entire city seems like the kind of choice even a crooked GCPD cop would maybe not make
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,838
I like it.

You know why? Because people don't read Batman comics to see social welfare.

People read/watch Batman because he drives a cool car, has lots of angsty issues which is good for drama, fights bad guys, saves the world, has a colorful unique group of villains, etc.
I think we could have both and still make it ultimately a fun, fantastical story.
 

DeathyBoy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,430
Under my Hela Hela
Because his ideas are interesting. You could always just...not read the thread.

They were interesting. But they were also fundamentally elseworlds content at best, and the idea of someone thinking they could fix Superman by having Lois Lane crying over working 80 hours a week is... strange, to say the least. And I don't see what's wrong with wondering why we're promoting some random guy on Twitter espousing early college student level "reworkings" of Batman and Superman.
 

IDreamOfHime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,427
Doesn't Batman already do ACAB? Gotham PD is always shown as one of the most corrupt places in the city, they're all on the take. Bats only trusts Gordon.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,445
I hope one day the batman movies address racial injustice in the police force as well. Cops tend to be corrupt trash in gotham but it usually defaults to bribery that gets them there.

And hopefully matt reeves continues making Bruce philanthropic too in his upcoming trilogy.

The idea of Joe Chill being a cop would be better if they made Batman black. I dont think mainstream superhero movies are ready for those kinds of conversations tho. The companies would not allow it.
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
They were interesting. But they were also fundamentally elseworlds content at best, and the idea of someone thinking they could fix Superman by having Lois Lane crying over working 80 hours a week is... strange, to say the least. And I don't see what's wrong with wondering why we're promoting some random guy on Twitter espousing early college student level "reworkings" of Batman and Superman.
Lmao that sounds like personal issues seeping in
 

Beignet

alt account
Banned
Aug 1, 2020
2,638
Because his ideas are interesting. You could always just...not read the thread.
His ideas are nothing new or profound. Batman vs corrupt cops isn't this crazy noneuclidean concept that people haven't come up with before. I guess for extremely casual fans that have only seen the Nolan movies (despite the movies covering police corruption, most people just remember them for Joker and Bane) and Snyder stuff it might work, but this isn't really "redefining Batman" and he's pushing for a story that something as corporate and profit-driven as Hollywood just wouldn't put out in this time

Also, how would a cop get away with murdering the Waynes? Wealthy Gotham socialites aren't necessarily a marginalized community police forces are notorious for picking on without retribution
 
Last edited:
Jun 17, 2019
2,182
I mean we kind of already have this with Signal and Orpheus (Duke Thomas and Gavin king). Hell you can argue this with the history behind the original batwing and the newest one Luke Fox.

Joe Chill as a cop, fine, but has the writer forgotten that the whole reason for Bruce doing this is to make sure that no other kid has to go though what he did? Hell if any thing Bruce would e the first to donate to BLM and be there during a march in Gotham to he protesters against the cops.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
It doesn't need it, especially when there is usually only one good cop in the Gotham PD. It's the only comic book character i remember growing up where majority of cops are bad.
 

G.O.O.

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,089
Isn't the problem with the police in gritty Batman movies the fact that it's completely corrupt and in the pocket of the mob ?

The TDK trilogy shows a progression on that front, BTW. Pushed by Batman, who wants them to be better so he can retire. It's basically how failed institutions call for desperate measures.

TDKR also has a subtext on populism as an excuse to push a radical, deadly agenda.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,026
I've seen this suggested before for a black Batman, but I think it'd work best if he wasn't a rich person also.
 

Team_Feisar

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,352
The thing with "Batman was always ACAB" is that yes, the GCPD is corrupt to the core but it´s always the people that are corrupt. It´s like a basket of bad apples.
I think what people are arguing is that Batman does not challenge the Idea of how the police works on principle. It´s more about people being corrupt and less about the whole system being fucked.

But to be fair, i did not real all of the Batman comics so i might be mistaken here.
 

Deleted member 42641

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 25, 2018
864
Does no one understand that in the Nolan films (talking about the dark knight mostly, dont remember much about the other two) and very clearly in the new batman trailer, that batman is like kind of not a good guy ?

Characters can be very bad people in a story but the story itself not be in anyway supporting what that character does.Gritty superhero movies for the most part are misguided but batman just kind of lives in that tone so its not anything new
 

Hawkster

Alt account
Banned
Mar 23, 2019
2,626
All of this nonsense shows that I'm not allowed to like Batman as a character.

And even if I do, I'm a bad person

I wish everyone on Twitter could just stay quiet and not make discourse for at least a month
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,845
This guy's idea isn't as clever or groundbreaking as he thinks it is. A lot of Batman stories involve police corruption, not to mention a cop killing two wealthy white members of the 1% would be immediately put away.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
I don't think I've seen any gritty superhero, noir or even fiction in general come even close to depicting what real life police corruption actually looks like in America.
 

YaBish

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,341
Why would Joe Chill the cop shoot the Waynes? They're White wealthy landowners. He'd be more likely to be at their beck and call to shoot the "poors" of Gotham.
 

Addi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,226
The world's greatest detective doesn't need to have his parents killed by a cop to figure out cops are bad.

And what's the point of this story? There's no tension or moral conundrums, you know where this goes. Art should ask difficult question, this is a pre-answered political fantasy, a hashtag in movie form. That's not to say Batman can't be taken in much more interesting directions than today though.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,958

Part of his pitch is that Superman intentionally causes a satellite to fall out of the sky and almost kill hundreds of people just to manufacture a hero moment?

That's...questionable

This dude's takes are consistently awful in how they misread the characters. Superman isn't going to engineer a fucking catastrophe to make himself look good and help his friends keep their jobs. It also makes Luthor right about everything he always say about Superman. Also, how is Clark so wide-eyed about joining the Daily Planet yet also ignorant about their considerable drop in news reporting? Has he not read the Daily Planet in years? And if the little old lady that cares about journalism so much owns 51% of the Daily Planet, how is Luthor also blocking negative reports about his company?
 
Last edited:
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
A different perspective, but the Batman character and franchise has been around for over 80 years. I wish we could give old IPs a rest from endless reboots and focus on supporting a new generation of creators the chance to create characters and worlds that give them a voice, represent their struggles and will be just as iconic in 80 years from now.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,845
I've not read his Superman pitch but it doesn't take a genius to come up with something resonant and fresh in today's political climate.

Lean on the immigrant angle (a literal illegal alien), have Luthor as the corrupt strongman President who sows fear of the other and personify Clark/Superman like Captain America - an earnestly good, anti-fascist patriot who wants to take down evil.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
Batman's ultimate fight against corruption, racism, and police brutality on a systemic level is more interesting, and yeah a few police will have to get beat down in the process as opposed to petty criminals or low-level gangs born out of poverty and lack of social mobility. Batman already does the social programs, he can also add the measures to ban housing segregation, redlining, and better school funding that isn't dependent on property taxes. This is where all the detective work and investigations come in. If it's a single film, a single issue can be focused on in-depth. If it's a series of films or a tv series, it could end up being like superhero The Wire.
 

Ruisu

Banned
Aug 1, 2019
5,535
Brasil
That would me really interesting, but there's no good way to make it last. I feel like that should be longer than a one-off, but it's unrealistic to expect a comic/movie that tackles this subject with the straight agressiveness it deserves.
 

Iacomus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
803
If I remember correctly. Dont most of the Batman stories touch on police corruption?

I'm sure in animated, films and comics he has cops who are on the mob/joker or other payroll who he has either takes down or has some very firm words to.
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,344
If I remember correctly. Dont most of the Batman stories touch on police corruption?

I'm sure in animated, films and comics he has cops who are on the mob/joker or other payroll who he has either takes down or has some very firm words to.

A lot of "Year One" takes do, but typically by the time Jim Gordon becomes commissioner, they move away from that.
 

Caddywompus

Member
Mar 10, 2018
912
Also, how would a cop get away with murdering the Waynes? Wealthy Gotham socialites aren't necessarily a marginalized community police forces are notorious for picking on without retribution

Well obviously it would be a cover up that Bruce's detective skills uncover later in life. Thomas Wayne made powerful enemies with the white supremacists in control of the Gotham PD. Wayne was very critical of police. Calling for reform and defunding while using his resources to actually make a difference in disadvantaged communities making the police unnecessary if they didn't do something to stop him.
 

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,453
Even if it were true... why the fuck would you be reading a Batman comic for shit like this?

At the end of the day, the appeal of Batman is watching him beat up super villains who wanna blow up the city. It's simple-minded fiction.

And I don't mean simple-minded as an insult, it's what it is.

This thread is about the gritty movies, not the comics.

Well obviously it would be a cover up that Bruce's detective skills uncover later in life. Thomas Wayne made powerful enemies with the white supremacists in control of the Gotham PD. Wayne was very critical of police. Calling for reform and defunding while using his resources to actually make a difference in disadvantaged communities making the police unnecessary if they didn't do something to stop him.

Could be why the Waynes werem't part of the Court of Owls. But the Court of Owls makes it a Gotham thing rather than a systemic US thing.
 

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
I've not read his Superman pitch but it doesn't take a genius to come up with something resonant and fresh in today's political climate.

Lean on the immigrant angle (a literal illegal alien), have Luthor as the corrupt strongman President who sows fear of the other and personify Clark/Superman like Captain America - an earnestly good, anti-fascist patriot who wants to take down evil.

I'm confused as to how this is fresh?

This is like, pretty much every single time where Luthor is president in the comics & DCAU.

Or is this a joke I'm whooshing on? If so, my bad.
 

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,453
Ok all crime is done. What about the super villains?

Well, he can effectively cut down on the number of grunts the various villains have. Then it's just him, the few grunts who are too fucked in the head to leave, and the villains. But I don't see that being a good comic book film. Fighting police corruption with your fists probably won't get you far as those matters can only be addressed in Congress or in court. The final showdown between Commissioner Loeb (or the AG or whoever) and Batman probably won't be too exciting either. Getting some ending of John Wick 1 vibes thinking about it.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,845
I'm confused as to how this is fresh?

This is like, pretty much every single time where Luthor is president in the comics & DCAU.

Or is this a joke I'm whooshing on? If so, my bad.

That Twitter guy was talking about a standalone live action Superman movie.

Luthor in film so far has been little more than a moustache twirling villain with a diabolical scheme. Depicting him as a businessman turned populist president who sows hate and fear isn't subtle, or even new in terms of the comics, but on film it would be timely and yes, fresh. I'm not claiming this is my idea, it just seems like an obvious direction.

The funny thing is, I never used to be a fan of the Lex as President idea. I thought it was too outlandish that someone so obviously villainous could be put in office. But here we are.