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Twitch Streamer Ludwig is now moving over to Youtube Gaming joining Valkyrae, CouRageJD, Dr.Lupo and TimtheTatman

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Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,659
Hamburg, Germany
Dicttator said:
I really want to see Twitch get fucked. But,



This is the curse of the only platform that can beat Twitch. And it's really disturbing that they don't do anything about it, for years.
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It's laughably bad. They're working with the interface of a (bad) VOD platform's (bad) discoverability for live videos and wonder how it won't work. Just do live.youtube.com or something, copy twitch's interface including categories and more than, like, 4 videos per page, use this magical algorithm of yours (that you surely don't use for the crap you're recommending me every day even after multiple "i don't care for this at all" checks) and put some dang effort into it.

Oh and lower your absolutely insane thresholds for being able to earn at least pennies from your platform. Why the fuck should a small streamer even think about going YT exclusive at this point, there's literally absolutely no reason except for VOD options. Don't try to get people with another stage of emojis, pay your small content creators, give them a proper, useful platform and put the spotlight on them before you worry about emotes and membership details.

Like, Jesus. You have unlimited money, it can't be THAT hard to at least try.


NekoNeko said:
Yeah this. I wouldn't even know where to find these youtube streamers.
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100%, and I have literally tried streaming on Youtube. It's absolutely pointless at this point.
 
SRTtoZ

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
Yea if YT got xQc that would be huge but I don't see him moving. He's too in love with chat which is the one thing that's lacking on Youtube. Plus he already makes bank.
 
Niklel

Niklel

Prophet of Regret
Member
Aug 10, 2020
3,990
Grips said:
I assume Youtube is better in the long run for a more mature audience?
These streamers cant be young and attract young people forever.
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I've seen very little of his streams, but tbh I didn't get an impression that his audience wound be mature. Looked at his YouTube channel, and it also kinda seems like zoomers are the target audience.
Also I thought that he's mostly doing "irl" content, so it's funny that he's going to stream on YouTube Gaming.
 
Casa

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,531
You think Twitch/Amazon fights hard to retain these massive streamers when they're considering leaving or do they just shrug their shoulders and say "eh, we're so big that it won't matter?"
 
TheAbsolution

TheAbsolution

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,391
Atlanta, GA
Casa said:
You think Twitch/Amazon fights hard to retain these massive streamers when they're considering leaving or do they just shrug their shoulders and say "eh, we're so big that it won't matter?"
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I think they figure that for every Ludwig, there's another set of folks that can replace them at the top.
Additionally, as a platform, unless you're already huge, YouTube Gaming is somehow worse for growth and discoverability (with livestreams) than Twitch is and that's saying something. Plus other smaller platform stuff like chat, channel redeems, moderation, integrations etc. that Twitch just is still ahead of YouTube by a country mile.
 
Nabs

Nabs

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,695
Casa said:
You think Twitch/Amazon fights hard to retain these massive streamers when they're considering leaving or do they just shrug their shoulders and say "eh, we're so big that it won't matter?"
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I wonder the same. Ludwig is a such a big loss, because he creates some really good content/shows. If they did attempt to keep talent, where would it stop? I have to imagine YT is throwing insane bags of money to these streamers.
 
TLDR of Ludwig's Interview -- Why he left, how he made the decision and what it came down to.
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    IDontBeatGames

    IDontBeatGames

    ThreadMarksman
    Member
    Oct 29, 2017
    16,544
    New York
    So I watched parts of the interview, here's the TLDR:
    - Ludwig says in the interview: "During negotiations, I never felt respected nor wanted by Twitch"
    - Ludwig also wanted the ability to limit gift subs and specifically asked Twitch for that. The answer was pretty much "that's not really our thing, we'll try". He then followed up saying "when I was talking to Youtube about any idea during negotiations, the were pretty much like hell yeah dude that's pog lets do it"
    - He also said he delayed making this decision for at least a week despite there being deadlines. He spoke to a ton of people regarding this decision to get insight from his friends. And even then, he was still 50-50 till the last minute, he then decided to flip to a coin lmao. The coin landed on Twitch but he really liked the Youtube guys more than he liked the Twitch guys despite liking the Twitch guys. He then got on a call at midnight with Youtube Gaming people, told them about the coin flip and they paused only to immediately give him an even better deal that gave him more free time. He took it on the spot immediately because of this effort from the Youtube guys.
    - On top of this, he said that for the first time, he felt like a company actually cared about him. That's how much of a positive impression and effort the Youtube Gaming people made.
    - Ludwig said he also did the same exact strategy after talking to the Youtube guys and taking the deals but with Twitch people for his own curiosity, they looked at him and said "Alright, well you're gonna do what's best with your family". He said it was a bummer because they never showed any effort or fought for him.
    - Of course, he still loves Twitch but he's really excited to be on Youtube.

     
  • Index
    • Casa

    Casa

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    9,531
    Nabs said:
    I wonder the same. Ludwig is a such a big loss, because he creates some really good content/shows. If they did attempt to keep talent, where would it stop? I have to imagine YT is throwing insane bags of money to these streamers.
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    Yeah. If YouTube is able to steal away more of the biggest IRL section streamers that could be a legit way to make a dent in Twitch's dominance. Don't think they'll be competing on the game streaming front any time soon.

    But if they can snatch away more people like Ludwig they have something big. People like Mizkif, Nmp, Hasan, etc.
     
    OP
    OP
    IDontBeatGames

    IDontBeatGames

    ThreadMarksman
    Member
    Oct 29, 2017
    16,544
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    Casa said:
    Yeah. If YouTube is able to steal away more of the biggest IRL section streamers that could be a legit way to make a dent in Twitch's dominance. Don't think they'll be competing on the game streaming front any time soon.

    But if they can snatch away more people like Ludwig they have something big. People like Mizkif, Nmp, Hasan, etc.
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    Just to let you know, Mizkif was talking about this already on stream a few minutes ago. He basically said he wouldn't ever leave Twitch cause it wouldn't feel the same to him. It'd basically feel like he was in jail while his friends got to still be in the same place together. It'd feel like then together and them him. Plus, he loves Twitch chat far too much to ever leave and fears YouTube viewers not understanding him or his personality. On top of that, he feels like he makes too much of an impact on his friends that are other streamers and him leaving would negatively impact them as well, and it'd make him feel like shit if that was the case.
     
    HououinKyouma

    HououinKyouma

    The Wise Ones
    Banned
    Oct 27, 2017
    8,366
    With YouTube definitely investing in their platform, I'm really hoping they revamp their entire community system. Start with the chats and go from there.
     
    firehawk12

    firehawk12

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    24,200
    YouTube just sucks for streaming, but I guess if you have the audience you can go wherever. Maybe even bring back Facebook gaming. lol
     
    Smokey_Run

    Smokey_Run

    The Fallen
    Oct 25, 2017
    4,631
    Casa said:
    You think Twitch/Amazon fights hard to retain these massive streamers when they're considering leaving or do they just shrug their shoulders and say "eh, we're so big that it won't matter?"
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    No, because they probably figure they'll all flip back over and ride the hype in the opposite direction when their YT contract expires.
     
    IIFloodyII

    IIFloodyII

    Member
    Oct 26, 2017
    23,979
    VAD said:
    But Amazon does too! But maybe they don't have all of the music though…
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    YouTube specifically has 1 helps I guess. YouTube also pay the music industry a lot too, I don't think Twitch do.
    Casa said:
    You think Twitch/Amazon fights hard to retain these massive streamers when they're considering leaving or do they just shrug their shoulders and say "eh, we're so big that it won't matter?"
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    They are definitely still making deals, NickMercs recently resigned with Twitch, after YouTube tried to get him and they signed a new deal with Disguised Toast after his Facebook contract ended. We don't know how hard they are actually trying, but the Streamers are eating good.
     
    Corncob

    Corncob

    Prophet of Truth
    The Fallen
    Oct 25, 2017
    4,585
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    For real though, is there actually a way to browse life steams on twitch by viewer count or video game? It's utter madness how difficult it is to discover live streams.
     
    Mat-triX

    Mat-triX

    Member
    Oct 27, 2017
    969
    Hopefully, Ludwig can make the Battleship meta take off on YouTube, since the Twitch Meta sunk.
     
    Basileus777

    Basileus777

    Member
    Oct 26, 2017
    9,203
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    Good for Ludwig making bank. But youtube is just such a shitty platform for live content. It's not even just Twitch that towers over it, like even random 2view platforms do it better than youtube.
     
    Arsic

    Arsic

    Banned
    Oct 27, 2017
    2,730
    DrD with no contract on YT. I hope he wins his lawsuit against Twitch so he can go back to crushing it.
     

    Dyl

    Member
    Oct 27, 2017
    753
    Good for him. He's already got a solid YouTube presence so this seems like a good fit.

    The Living Tribunal said:
    Hasan is next. You heard it here first.
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    No shot. Hasan's stream revolves around chat interaction, and YouTube's chat is garbage in comparison. They'd have to give him a huge payout to work around that, and as others have already mentioned, that's unlikely considering YouTube and its advertisers aren't very fond of his type of content.
     
    Broseph

    Broseph

    Member
    Mar 2, 2021
    4,872
    Oh that's a big pickup for YouTube. It's an interesting time since a lot of contracts are going to be up soon. For example, one of YouTube's biggest streamers, Valkyrae, may be a free agent soon so she could come back and I can see other streamers going to YouTube if they get a good offer
     
    spam musubi

    spam musubi

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    9,381
    IDontBeatGames said:
    So I watched parts of the interview, here's the TLDR:
    - Ludwig says in the interview: "During negotiations, I never felt respected nor wanted by Twitch"
    - Ludwig also wanted the ability to limit gift subs and specifically asked Twitch for that. The answer was pretty much "that's not really our thing, we'll try". He then followed up saying "when I was talking to Youtube about any idea during negotiations, the were pretty much like hell yeah dude that's pog lets do it"
    - He also said he delayed making this decision for at least a week despite there being deadlines. He spoke to a ton of people regarding this decision to get insight from his friends. And even then, he was still 50-50 till the last minute, he then decided to flip to a coin lmao. The coin landed on Twitch but he really liked the Youtube guys more than he liked the Twitch guys despite liking the Twitch guys. He then got on a call at midnight with Youtube Gaming people, told them about the coin flip and they paused only to immediately give him an even better deal that gave him more free time. He took it on the spot immediately because of this effort from the Youtube guys.
    - On top of this, he said that for the first time, he felt like a company actually cared about him. That's how much of a positive impression and effort the Youtube Gaming people made.
    - Ludwig said he also did the same exact strategy after talking to the Youtube guys and taking the deals but with Twitch people for his own curiosity, they looked at him and said "Alright, well you're gonna do what's best with your family". He said it was a bummer because they never showed any effort or fought for him.
    - Of course, he still loves Twitch but he's really excited to be on Youtube.

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    pretty cool of him that he doesn't want to make money through subs and donations but through advertisers, as he feels that people shouldn't be giving him money directly because he's well off
     
    Kyougar

    Kyougar

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    Member
    Nov 3, 2017
    9,359
    Casa said:
    You think Twitch/Amazon fights hard to retain these massive streamers when they're considering leaving or do they just shrug their shoulders and say "eh, we're so big that it won't matter?"
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    The world of massive streamers is very fluid. Ludwig himself only got big in the last 18 months. And he may be dropping down to only 10 or 5% of his peak in the following 18 months on Twitch.
    So it is a gamble either way, the next massive streamer is just waiting in the pipeline.

    Twitch focuses more on stable midsize Streamers right now.

    massive Streamers are something like the Wii or Kinect, they got big because of a gimmick or a particular skill in a big game which got them a massive audience relatively fast, ut those viewers can go to the next big thing just as easily.
     
    Cipherr

    Cipherr

    Member
    Oct 26, 2017
    13,436
    nihilence said:
    Youtube continuing to make moves.
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    They were considered a joke not worth caring about in the space a long while back. But now many of the streamers I watch dual stream somehow on Twitch and YT both. And almost all of them put recorded videos on their YT channel for a second form of engagement and income as it is.

    Im seriously under the impression that discoverability and UI are the only things keeping them from rocketing off. The complacency of Twitch and people assuming nothing could ever challenge them is going to backfire so fucking hard eventually. I mean, discoverability and UI can be fixed....
     
    hom3land

    hom3land

    Member
    Oct 27, 2017
    2,591
    As a casual stream watcher, I've been really enjoying Tim on YouTube. When he plays with doc it's hilarious.
     
    BearPawB

    BearPawB

    I'm a fan of the erotic thriller genre
    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    3,998
    Until Youtube Gaming actually has a navigable AI, it remains like Podcasts on Spotify. A good way for streamers to get rich and for me not to watch them.

    Of the BIG streamers, I think Ludwig is a pretty good watch.

    I am mostly sad as this likely means the end of him on Pogchamps :(
     
    IIFloodyII

    IIFloodyII

    Member
    Oct 26, 2017
    23,979
    BearPawB said:
    Until Youtube Gaming actually has a navigable AI, it remains like Podcasts on Spotify. A good way for streamers to get rich and for me not to watch them.

    Of the BIG streamers, I think Ludwig is a pretty good watch.

    I am mostly sad as this likely means the end of him on Pogchamps :(
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    I don't think anything will get in the way of that, I don't believe Twitch have any direct involvement in Pogchamps and Ludwig wasn't banned so he can appear on other Twitch streams no problem.
     
    Humanity

    Humanity

    Member
    Aug 31, 2019
    11,003
    Back when Microsoft tried this tactic with Mixer it didn't work out long term because the platform just didn't entice viewers to move away from Twitch. YouTube will need to mobilize quickly with that roadmap because at the moment they have a long way to go.
     
    Basileus777

    Basileus777

    Member
    Oct 26, 2017
    9,203
    New Jersey
    Kyougar said:
    The world of massive streamers is very fluid. Ludwig himself only got big in the last 18 months. And he may be dropping down to only 10 or 5% of his peak in the following 18 months on Twitch.
    So it is a gamble either way, the next massive streamer is just waiting in the pipeline.

    Twitch focuses more on stable midsize Streamers right now.

    massive Streamers are something like the Wii or Kinect, they got big because of a gimmick or a particular skill in a big game which got them a massive audience relatively fast, ut those viewers can go to the next big thing just as easily.
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    Twitch realizes that their audience largely just moves onto other Twitch streamers when youtube makes these deals and it's ecosystem isn't really threatened.

    Youtube needs to actually create a good livestreaming platform for this to change.
     
    Bluelote

    Bluelote

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    Oct 27, 2017
    2,024
    I think twitch doesn't need that many big names, while others trying to run after them do need... something...
    also youtube I think is a far safer bet than facebook.
     
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