Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

adinsx · Apr 17, 2019

We have racism in Europe (don't think is as permanent as some other continents), is just more that painting your face to look darker can be viewed as racist if you are doing it to mock other race. In this case it doesn't seem she is racist...

BUT, I understand the ban on twitch since is it a worldwide service and if it is racist in any country is also racist on the service.

Super Havoc · Apr 17, 2019

Elephant said:
I'm willing to believe she was ignorant in the first place, but it's the follow up post that becomes unacceptable having been informed of why she was banned.

People are dismissing culture, but have any of you actually been to Russia? It's probably the most racist and homophobic place I've ever visited. If you're raised in that environment how on earth are you going to see that it isn't normal and that it's wrong? If you don't know what you're doing is wrong, how are you going to go out and specifically educate yourself in that topic?

Has anyone seen the Louis Theroux documentary where he visits Westboro Baptist Church and spends time with those children, who have grown up believing very specific hateful things? How Louis struggled to reason with them, as they were steadfast in their beliefs, but you could see them start to question it as the show progressed. They were being challenged, but never attacked, and started to question themselves for the first time. It's difficult to break a lifetime of beliefs. But some of those kids weren't lost causes, some got out and started to love and accept everyone, which was really really awesome.

What i'm saying is we can put the responsibility back on them, "you're a grown adult educate yourself", or we can take responsibility for pointing them towards that education, "this is offensive, this is why it's offensive, here's where you can find more information".

How many viewers did this streamer have? 160? If we get her to understand, she's helping 160 others to understand.

This just sounds silly honestly. Black people were treated as chattel and revolted, escaped etc. even though multiple generations of black people were raised as slaves, raped and murdered without consequence to their abusers as the norm and they knew it was wrong, you're telling me in the age we live in everyone is just oblivious to morality?

It's a choice to be racist, it's not a natural thing. It requires constant focus to hate and even being raised in it many people have chosen not to accept it as their ideology.

Some of you are too quick with these claims of innocence due to ignorance defenses handing out all of these benefits of a doubt and it's confusing to me.

Jorgie · Apr 17, 2019

If Miley fuckin' Cyrus can dress up as Lil Kim and everyone recognize and acknowledge she was Lil Kim WITHOUT Blackface then there's no excuse for anyone else to do it. The whole "more accurate" argument is weak and stupid.

Also, playing ignorant doesn't hold up much nowadays considering the amount of people who have been called out publicly for doing black face especially in the cosplay community. Please stop capping lol. This isn't a "this is big in the U.S not anywhere else in the world" situation.

Do I think she's racist? Maybe not. The fact that she reposted the picture on another social media outlet with that caption clearly shows she doesn't care of the wrong shit she did so.... Electric chair.

OrdinaryPrime · Apr 17, 2019

Luis Carretero said:
I am Spanish, and until a few years ago I wasn't even aware "blackface" existed. What is racist in American culture it might not be in other cultures where they don't have the history of using blackface as a racist assholery.

In Spain, most of the people who would like to cosplay Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury, would use a darker skin tone make up to make it look more accurate. Is not even a rare occurrence if you go during the Carnival festival (where we do costume parties like in Halloween in other places).

So yeah, I am not saying she, shouldn't be more conscious and realize using dark makeup is offensive to people in other countries, what I am trying to say is that in a lot of countries, blackface is not even a thing, so I understand why this happened.

The constant spouting from some Europeans about their ignorance when it comes to blackface and this push about how America somehow has exclusive rights on horrible racism is frustrating. All one has to do is attend a fucking 'football' match in Europe to see fucking bananas be thrown on the pitch. This shit is everywhere. And darkening your face to be part of your costume to represent a person of color is a no no.

Hilarious_Bearious · Apr 17, 2019

Mister Wedgewood said:
I just came across this youtube video last week about the Chinese Spring Festival Gala where a Chinese Lady is blackface. They interview people on the street on how they feel about it. I found the responses both disappointing and interesting at the same time. I've

That video was pretty interesting. But to be honest, I think you'd get a similar result if you did the same thing here in Australia (and yes, we have a history of blackface here, targeted at our indigenous peoples and black people in other countries). I think you'd get a couple of people saying it's wrong, then a few more saying it's just a bit of fun. And to be fair, the Chinese people in that video are quick to admit that they're pretty ignorant when it comes to black people, are exposed to a lot of negative stereotypes and would likely change their viewpoint if given better exposure etc. Here we are straight up racist fucks and will fight you over it.

In 2005, we had a delightful little race riot in our largest city: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

We've had plenty of blackface incidents people trip to defend, including a boy going to school painted brown to look like a footballer:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...kin-for-book-week-parade-20160825-gr1fo8.html

And these bumper stickers exist (spoiler tags because offensive):

I'm glad to see Twitch took this course of action. Even if she were ignorant of the offensiveness of blackface (I'm highly skeptical), if it doesn't get punished all the bigots will just use ignorance as an excuse. An example needs to be made and a standard needs to be maintained.

Elephant · Apr 17, 2019

Super Havoc said:
This just sounds silly honestly. Black people were treated as chattel and revolted, escaped etc. even though multiple generations of black people were raised as slaves, rape and murder without consequence of their abusers being the norm and they knew it was wrong, you're telling me in the age we live in everyone is just oblivious to morality?

It's a choice to be racist, it's not a natural thing. It requires constant focus to hate and even being raised in it many people have chosen not to accept it as their ideology.

Some of you are too quick with these claims of innocence due to ignorance defenses handing out all of these benefits of a doubt and it's confusing to me.

I'm not saying everyone is oblivious to morality, but the moral views of some people differ from yours because they've been raised in a society that has lead them to believe these things are normal and accepted. I think it's the reason so many people are religious, because they were raised in that environment. That's not to say they'll necessarily stay religious, something can happen to change those beliefs.

It wasn't so long ago that the struggles of black people you mentioned were very much accepted as normal in our advanced countries, and shit we're still not exactly perfect at it. So do i find it inconceivable that there are countries and environments out there who still have a high level of hate within their systems? Absolutely not. It's only silly in the fact that it's still a reality. It's not a lost cause, we have to change their minds like the generations before changed the minds of our past generations.

Also I never said ignorance was innocence, I'm sorry if you feel I implied it. I also don't think it should be forgiven. But only by knowing and accepting that there are genuinely people who live in this ignorance can we hope to make it better.

P A Z · Apr 17, 2019

I'd like to say I'm surprised that someone thought this was ok to do, but also yesterday it came out that a 32 year old footballer (soccer) was cleared of making a Nazi salute because he claimed, I shit you not, he didn't know who Adolf Hitler was.

I guess my point is there are no depths to ignorance.

Super Havoc · Apr 17, 2019

Elephant said:
I'm not saying everyone is oblivious to morality, but the moral views of some people differ from yours because they've been raised in a society that has lead them to believe these things are normal and accepted.

Which is why I used slavery and black people who for over a hundred years were raised only knowing that as their way of life and still revolting against it and knowing it was wrong as a primary counter as to why this is illogical.

These people may not be exposed to black people often but they know of our history in some ways so knowing that and still painting their faces black is a deliberate act of racism.

Lightning Count · Apr 17, 2019

Good, blackface should not be tolerated, there is no excuse for it.

Daneel_O · Apr 17, 2019

OrdinaryPrime said:
The constant spouting from some Europeans about their ignorance when it comes to blackface and this push about how America somehow has exclusive rights on horrible racism is frustrating. All one has to do is attend a fucking 'football' match in Europe to see fucking bananas be thrown on the pitch. This shit is everywhere. And darkening your face to be part of your costume to represent a person of color is a no no.

I don't know why it is so hard to understand that no European will ever claim with a straight face that we are immune to horrible racism of many, many kinds, but that SOME of them could be oblivious to this particular type of practice as a way to discriminate/mock/ridicule PoC.

Now I will say something that can be easily misinterpreted so I will try to be as clear as possible: there are some things that are offensive no matter what, regardless of history, society, education, like calling someone bad names, spitting in their face, throwing bananas at them, discriminating them, you name it.

However, I struggle to see how simply darkening your face (or using any other skin color with no intent of caricature to represent a real person) would be offensive in a vacuum, without the additional context of what it has been associated with through history.

Again, I am adamant in modern day and age it IS offensive and should be avoided at any cost, however I also think we should not give it for granted and educate people instead.

I hope I did not offend anybody, I am just trying to discuss the topic with some nuance even though I feel I am failing to express myself properly.

Jade1962 · Apr 17, 2019

Serious Sam said:
What is there to comment about? His family moved to US when he was 6. He grew up entirely under the influence of American culture. What the heck does this have to do with Lithuania?

Did he move to the US without his parents? Are most Americans not desecended from Europeans?

Black face is always done with racist intent. The idea that the character you are trying to portray is defined by their skin is the reason you are willing to paint yourself. There is a reason the dominant culture is usually the one painting their skin and not the other way around. You see our dark skin as a costume and us as charcters not wholely real. Merely as a source of entertainment. Yeah you may not lynch anyone but the idea you think of my skin color as a costume is evidence of enough of the respect you have for me as a human being.

And "you" in this sense is not literally you but those who do black face and those who wish to excuse it due to cultrual ignorance. They aren't ignorant they just hold racially biased beliefs and the culture is ok with "casual" racism.

Contraband · Apr 17, 2019

Daneel_O said:
However, I struggle to see how simply darkening your face (or using any other skin color with no intent of caricature to represent a real person) would be offensive in a vacuum, without the additional context of what it has been associated with through history.

You struggle to see it? That's white privilege...

shotopunx · Apr 17, 2019

Daneel_O said:
However, I struggle to see how simply darkening your face (or using any other skin color with no intent of caricature to represent a real person) would be offensive in a vacuum, without the additional context of what it has been associated with through history.

This point is worthless because it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Galava · Apr 17, 2019

OrdinaryPrime said:
The constant spouting from some Europeans about their ignorance when it comes to blackface and this push about how America somehow has exclusive rights on horrible racism is frustrating. All one has to do is attend a fucking 'football' match in Europe to see fucking bananas be thrown on the pitch. This shit is everywhere. And darkening your face to be part of your costume to represent a person of color is a no no.

Of course racism exist here in Spain, I don't think he's saying that. But I have to agree with him that blackface hasn't been seen as a problem until very very recently. Heck, I have not heard any PoC person here in Spain complain about it (that doesn't make it right of course). I completelty understand why it can offend people, and everyone should be careful with that.

Us europeans posting here are not trying to condone blackface, but are arguing that that painting your face black is not seen as offensive by the majority of the population. Is it ignorant? Of course. Sadly it will take a long time for the majority of the european population to "get" some things that are already common knowledge in the US (eg. the N word)

As an example, this product would be seen as a nononono in the US, but it's pretty common here and not seen as a bad thing (though some of us kinda feel a bit "this is not right" about this).

Conguitos as in "little Congo people". They are chocolate thingies.

Armite · Apr 17, 2019

As someone from the UK, it seems insane to me that a European would not be familiar with how offensive this is. Sure, it might be acceptable in your particular town or even country, but come on. You'd have to be very young, extremely ignorant or disingenuous to claim that this is not widely known on the continent.

Not that I think this specific example is malicious, but it's perfectly acceptable not to tolerate this kind of thing on your platform.

PrimeBeef · Apr 17, 2019

SuikerBrood said:
Guess the response in this topic says enough. Thanks for your answer.

Do think for many people in (Eastern) European countries this is not something you think about.

It seems to be an American thing, where we think the world revolves around us and everyone in the world knows about our history and customs. Yeah blackface is a terrible thing with a ton of racism behind it. But I don't expect anyone outside of NA to really know it that.

As a kid who idolized Hank Arron, I wanted to dress as him for a Black History month thing in 3rd grade. After getting in uniform, I asked my mom to make my face brown like him. She told me I could not do that because it was wrong. I was 8 and didn't understand. This is really no different. A foreigner who probably doesn't pay attention to American past with no history of this in her country, just doesn't know.

She was rightly punished and hopefully she learns.

Nauren · Apr 17, 2019

Daneel_O said:
However, I struggle to see how simply darkening your face (or using any other skin color with no intent of caricature to represent a real person) would be offensive in a vacuum, without the additional context of what it has been associated with through history.

Sure I'm burning two boards shaped as a cross on your lawn, but in a vacuum, this is harmless...

RROCKMAN · Apr 17, 2019

Galava said:
Of course racism exist here in Spain, I don't think he's saying that. But I have to agree with him that blackface hasn't been seen as a problem until very very recently. Heck, I have not heard any PoC person here in Spain complain about it (that doesn't make it right of course). I completelty understand why it can offend people, and everyone should be careful with that.

Us europeans posting here are not trying to condone blackface, but are arguing that that painting your face black is not seen as offensive by the majority of the population. Is it ignorant? Of course. Sadly it will take a long time for the majority of the european population to "get" some things that are already common knowledge in the US (eg. the N word)

As an example, this product would be seen as a nononono in the US, but it's pretty common here and not seen as a bad thing (though some of us kinda feel a bit "this is not right" about this).

Conguitos as in "little Congo people". They are chocolate thingies.

DAMN

This is next level type stuff. Europe doesn't seem fun to me at all anymore

Ωλ7XL9 · Apr 17, 2019

As an outsider to American culture and history first didn't know what or why it's offensive. After reading first few posts I get it, how can one be born/raised in America and not know about what to do and what not to?

OrdinaryPrime · Apr 17, 2019

Galava said:
Of course racism exist here in Spain, I don't think he's saying that. But I have to agree with him that blackface hasn't been seen as a problem until very very recently. Heck, I have not heard any PoC person here in Spain complain about it (that doesn't make it right of course). I completelty understand why it can offend people, and everyone should be careful with that.

Us europeans posting here are not trying to condone blackface, but are arguing that that painting your face black is not seen as offensive by the majority of the population. Is it ignorant? Of course. Sadly it will take a long time for the majority of the european population to "get" some things that are already common knowledge in the US (eg. the N word)

As an example, this product would be seen as a nononono in the US, but it's pretty common here and not seen as a bad thing (though some of us kinda feel a bit "this is not right" about this).

Conguitos as in "little Congo people". They are chocolate thingies.

There is something really not right with that...

1. Making a candy around "little Congo people"
2. Patterning it after a minstrel portrayal.

Ωλ7XL9 said:
As an outsider to American culture and history first didn't know what or why it's offensive. After reading first few posts I get it, how can one be born/raised in America and not know about what to do and what not to?

It's similar to how some white people can't get over not saying the n word. They're not used to being told they can't do something.

WrenchNinja · Apr 17, 2019

Daneel_O said:
However, I struggle to see how simply darkening your face (or using any other skin color with no intent of caricature to represent a real person) would be offensive in a vacuum, without the additional context of what it has been associated with through history.

Real people's skin colour is not a costume part. How is this a struggle for you?

Galava · Apr 17, 2019

RROCKMAN said:
DAMN

This is next level type stuff. Europe doesn't seem fun to me at all anymore

Do you need more enlightenment about the "Holy Week" in Spain? ;)

fyi It has nothing to do with KKK, it's just some christian custom from the middle ages, don't panic :)
They are pretty chill, these people that take part in the festivities just want to cry over Jesus and worship him, no political message behind.

(the kkk might have taken the dresses from here though, idk really)

Deleted member 52442 · Apr 17, 2019

Black people cosplay white characters all the time and feel no need to paint their faces white, and there's not even a negative connotation to doing that. I don't understand why the inverse is impossible for people.

Just do the costume, don't paint your face.

CaviarMeths · Apr 17, 2019

"My country literally started the transatlantic slave trade and colonized half a dozen countries in Africa. We have annual festivals in which children and elders alike openly mock a fictional black person. Also, xenophobic right-wing populism has been on the rise lately. What's blackface and why are Americans so mad about it though?"

Ok.

SuikerBrood · Apr 17, 2019

RROCKMAN said:
DAMN

This is next level type stuff. Europe doesn't seem fun to me at all anymore

In The Netherlands we had a type of candy that was called 'negrokiss' but they changed the name a couple of years ago:

We still have the 'Zwarte Piet' thing going on tho, sadly.

Galava · Apr 17, 2019

CaviarMeths said:
"My country literally started the transatlantic slave trade and colonized half a dozen countries in Africa. We have annual festivals in which children and elders alike openly mock a fictional black person. Also, xenophobic right-wing populism has been on the rise lately. What's blackface and why are Americans so mad about it though?"

Ok.

Yeah. Spain was pretty awful (and still is)

Tbm24 · Apr 17, 2019

Galava said:
Of course racism exist here in Spain, I don't think he's saying that. But I have to agree with him that blackface hasn't been seen as a problem until very very recently. Heck, I have not heard any PoC person here in Spain complain about it (that doesn't make it right of course). I completelty understand why it can offend people, and everyone should be careful with that.

Us europeans posting here are not trying to condone blackface, but are arguing that that painting your face black is not seen as offensive by the majority of the population. Is it ignorant? Of course. Sadly it will take a long time for the majority of the european population to "get" some things that are already common knowledge in the US (eg. the N word)

As an example, this product would be seen as a nononono in the US, but it's pretty common here and not seen as a bad thing (though some of us kinda feel a bit "this is not right" about this).

Conguitos as in "little Congo people". They are chocolate thingies.

I just want to highlight that the product you posted is fucking incredibly racist. Like damn they give NO fucks. Like, I can't for the life of me understand why even give it the red lips if they weren't explicitly playing off of blackface(I mean lets be real, they 100% are).

What bothers me the most is the idea that skin color is so linked to a character for people that they feel they need to match it to be that character, instead of just acknowledging this character is who they are, and they happen to be black. At least in the context of cosplay this is what pisses me off the most. It's part ignorance and part highlighting how "other" PoC can be to people. If nothing else, not sure why it's hard to listen and not get defensive when maligned people rightfully get mad at bullshit(not saying you're doing this specifically, but many fucking did in this thread).

Galava · Apr 17, 2019

Tbm24 said:
I just want to highlight that the product you posted is fucking incredibly racist. Like damn they give NO fucks. Like, I can't for the life of me understand why even give it the red lips if they weren't explicitly playing off of blackface(I mean lets be real, they 100% are).

Yup. Very racist. And I still don't know why people in my country do not get it.

plagiarize · Apr 17, 2019

SuikerBrood said:
In The Netherlands we had a type of candy that was called 'negrokiss' but they changed the name a couple of years ago:

We still have the 'Zwarte Piet' thing going on tho, sadly.

"Buh buh buh it's just soot cause he's a chimney sweep! That's why their lips are painted red and they have on curly black haired wigs. Because soot makes your lips turn red and your hair go curly!"

This cosplayer *doesn't care* that she offended black people. If that wasn't clear from the beginning, it was clear when she reposted it. As ever with stuff like this, if you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt when the photo first shows up, then I guess that's fair enough, but I always watch how they react to finding out what they did was hurtful to a whole bunch of people.

Reposting the photo? That tells me everything I need to know.

SuikerBrood · Apr 17, 2019

plagiarize said:
"Buh buh buh it's just soot cause he's a chimney sweep! That's why their lips are painted red and they have on curly black haired wigs. Because soot makes your lips turn red and your hair go curly!"

This cosplayer *doesn't care* that she offended black people. If that wasn't clear from the beginning, it was clear when she reposted it. As ever with stuff like this, if you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt when the photo first shows up, then I guess that's fair enough, but I always watch how they react to finding out what they did was hurtful to a whole bunch of people.

Reposting the photo? That tells me everything I need to know.

Yeah, when she reposted it on VK I knew enough. She doesn't care, doesnt understand or is just blatantly racist. Good thing Twitch banned her, but sadly she hasn't learnt anything from it, it seems..

Yukari · Apr 17, 2019

Galava said:

This look like Showa Kamen Rider Villain

RROCKMAN · Apr 17, 2019

Galava said:
Do you need more enlightenment about the "Holy Week" in Spain? ;)

fyi It has nothing to do with KKK, it's just some christian custom from the middle ages, don't panic :)
They are pretty chill, these people that take part in the festivities just want to cry over Jesus and worship him, no political message behind.

(the kkk might have taken the dresses from here though, idk really)

This being the source of KKK garb would make a ton of sense, (racist white folk in the US arent nearly that imaginative) but still isnt anywhere as bad as racial caricature being so engrained into the country's consciousness that its on candy.

Like what the actual hell, there is much work to be done here

Deleted member 18400 · Apr 17, 2019

At first I would have assumed this woman was just ignorant as fuck and not being maliciously racist. But her tweets and responses since then have shown no remorse or understanding of what she was doing and how offensive it was.

So at this point she has moved from ignorant (something that can be fixed) to just a racist piece of shit (something that really can't be fixed).

Ponn · Apr 17, 2019

Daneel_O said:
I don't know why it is so hard to understand that no European will ever claim with a straight face that we are immune to horrible racism of many, many kinds, but that SOME of them could be oblivious to this particular type of practice as a way to discriminate/mock/ridicule PoC.

Now I will say something that can be easily misinterpreted so I will try to be as clear as possible: there are some things that are offensive no matter what, regardless of history, society, education, like calling someone bad names, spitting in their face, throwing bananas at them, discriminating them, you name it.

However, I struggle to see how simply darkening your face (or using any other skin color with no intent of caricature to represent a real person) would be offensive in a vacuum, without the additional context of what it has been associated with through history.

Again, I am adamant in modern day and age it IS offensive and should be avoided at any cost, however I also think we should not give it for granted and educate people instead.

I hope I did not offend anybody, I am just trying to discuss the topic with some nuance even though I feel I am failing to express myself properly.

And THERE it is. You have been "but hey guys we should keep an open mind and not automatically judge racist things as racist and give people the benefit of the doubt" since yesterday. And here's the inevitable "but/however/I just got questions" that ALWAYS comes after all the bullshit talking out of both sides of the mouth.

Bad actors. Every-single-fucking-time

Super Havoc · Apr 17, 2019

Jade1962 said:
Did he move to the US without his parents? Are most Americans not desecended from Europeans?

Black face is always done with racist intent. The idea that the character you are trying to portray is defined by their skin is the reason you are willing to paint yourself. There is a reason the dominant culture is usually the one painting their skin and not the other way around. You see our dark skin as a costume and us as charcters not wholely real. Merely as a source of entertainment. Yeah you may not lynch anyone but the idea you think of my skin color as a costume is evidence of enough of the respect you have for me as a human being.

And "you" in this sense is not literally you but those who do black face and those who wish to excuse it due to cultrual ignorance. They aren't ignorant they just hold racially biased beliefs and the culture is ok with "casual" racism.

All of this.

CaviarMeths said:
"My country literally started the transatlantic slave trade and colonized half a dozen countries in Africa. We have annual festivals in which children and elders alike openly mock a fictional black person. Also, xenophobic right-wing populism has been on the rise lately. What's blackface and why are Americans so mad about it though?"

Ok.

The perfect amount of sarcasm. I love it lol

Kaako · Apr 17, 2019

Reposted that pic again did she, after all this shit?
Trash.

Daneel_O · Apr 17, 2019

shotopunx said:
This point is worthless because it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Of course it doesn't.
My point was it's something that is not offensive "per se", so it takes a minimum of knowledge/exposure/sensitivity, or even the occasion to think about it, to understand that it is wrong.
Some of us were grown with this basic notion as natural and give it for granted, some others will get there afterwards for multiple reasons. Those not capable to see anything wrong about it are racists.

Nauren said:
Sure I'm burning two boards shaped as a cross on your lawn, but in a vacuum, this is harmless...

Please don't put in my mouth words that I won't even conceive. I am trying to explain myself at the best of my possibilities and with no ill intent.

WrenchNinja said:
Real people's skin colour is not a costume part. How is this a struggle for you?

It is a "struggle" because real people's body and face features can be costume parts.
It took a split second to me to understand why racially defining features are on another league even not considering caricatures and infamous historic examples, but It something that needs a minimum process nonetheless.
Treating it like some basic rule of human society that every kid should understand at age 6 is disingenuous.

Azusa · Apr 17, 2019

She should have used tanning bed instead of this.

WrenchNinja · Apr 17, 2019

Daneel_O said:
It is a "struggle" because real people's body and face features can be costume parts.
It took a split second to me to understand why racially defining features are on another league even not considering caricatures and infamous historic examples, but It something that needs a minimum process nonetheless.
Treating it like some basic rule of human society that every kid should understand at age 6 is disingenuous

You wearing a Bush or Obama mask isn't the same thing as painting your skin

TheRuralJuror · Apr 17, 2019

PrimeBeef said:
It seems to be an American thing, where we think the world revolves around us and everyone in the world knows about our history and customs. Yeah blackface is a terrible thing with a ton of racism behind it. But I don't expect anyone outside of NA to really know it that.

As a kid who idolized Hank Arron, I wanted to dress as him for a Black History month thing in 3rd grade. After getting in uniform, I asked my mom to make my face brown like him. She told me I could not do that because it was wrong. I was 8 and didn't understand. This is really no different. A foreigner who probably doesn't pay attention to American past with no history of this in her country, just doesn't know.

She was rightly punished and hopefully she learns.

It's not solely an American thing. Study basic sociology and it's talked about worldwide. Europeans are no better at it than anyone else. Honestly, I rarely hear much about euro viewpoints being all that different in regular convos until a discussion on race comes up, which is funny because if they were so keen of being educated on the world around them, we wouldn't be having to explain why blackface is problematic to begin with.

First person I think of when it comes to blackface is Zwarte Piet, and I know there's been some controversy over that here and there for years, so I don't think it's all that hidden a subject. Here, going back to 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/2014112...0-black-pete-protesters-at-annual-procession/

Kthulhu · Apr 17, 2019

Wish I still had a picture of a white guy cosplaying Ulysses from Fallout New Vegas who decided not to be stupid and didn't do blackface or give himself dreads.

PrimeBeef · Apr 17, 2019

Ramjag said:
It's not solely an American thing. Study basic sociology and it's talked about worldwide. Europeans are no better at it than anyone else. Honestly, I rarely hear much about euro viewpoints being all that different in regular convos until a discussion on race comes up, which is funny because if they were so keen of being educated on the world around them, we wouldn't be having to explain why blackface is problematic to begin with.

Let's be real. Most people don't care what happens outside of their personal space. Especially those making money of of other people paying to watching them do stuff. Can't expect everyone to know and/or understand.

Messofanego · Apr 17, 2019

ps3ud0 said:
Just amazes me how ignorant and lack of self-awareness some arguments were like their morals were purely tied to what was acceptable to their country or on media and that they had no ability to critically assess what images were put in front of them and actually think for themselves.

I can perhaps understand this pre-internet but now there's so little excuse not to be informed, and it's a choice not to be so.

People like this allowed so many atrocities in history to happen because of their apathy.

ps3ud0 8)

A lot of people just don't want to educate themselves (e.g. the many banned people in this thread and many other previous ones) so they stick to stubborn ignorance because admitting you don't know something and are willing to understand the offence hurts your pride so much.

Daneel_O · Apr 17, 2019

Ponn said:
And THERE it is. You have been "but hey guys we should keep an open mind and not automatically judge racist things as racist and give people the benefit of the doubt" since yesterday. And here's the inevitable "but/however/I just got questions" that ALWAYS comes after all the bullshit talking out of both sides of the mouth.

Bad actors. Every-single-fucking-time

I am sorry if you think I have an agenda or that I am "acting" my way through to pass on some racist sub-text.

I just took the chance to discuss and share my opinion on a topic where I had a perhaps controversial view, but I am doing it in good faith whether you believe it or not.

I don't care if you want to put me in your "racist" box nor I will bother to defend myself, I think if you care to read and understand what I said and to reply on the actual discussion, it's going to bring a much more fruitful outcome for both.

TheRuralJuror · Apr 17, 2019

PrimeBeef said:
Let's be real. Most people don't care what happens outside of their personal space. Especially those making money of of other people paying to watching them do stuff. Can't expect everyone to know and/or understand.

I absolutely don't and I understand that more than most, but I'd rather people just said they didn't know than make it about Americans not viewing things through the lens of the world while claiming ignorance on something that isn't exactly a secret themselves. In any case, it isn't necessarily hard to look up.

I find it funny that in racial arguments, I've seen that stupid ass "the world doesn't revolve around Americans" argument pop up by people too self-absorbed to do a google search and educate themselves on the topic before letting the rest of us know how close-minded we are.

AB (^_^) · Apr 17, 2019

DevilPuncher said:
She...

Didn't realize that blackface is offensive?

What?

I think this is it. Not everyone is aware of US culture. It looks like an honest mistake.

I would be on the same boat, but then again if you are a "public figure" make sure to do your research before doing something.

Is just basic PR 101.

The Adder · Apr 17, 2019

Osiris397 said:
Unfortunately, it never surprises me when I see these things. I don't know why people keep saying, "I don't understand..."

Because a black person telling them it's wrong doesn't mean shit to them and a white person telling them its wrong doesn't count because it's based on the feelings of black folks.

The Adder · Apr 17, 2019

AB (^_^) said:
think this is it. Not everyone is aware of US culture. It looks like an honest mistake.

Read the fucking mod post.

Messofanego · Apr 17, 2019

Daneel_O said:
Honestly baffled with how many people are downright insulting other members for simply stating their experience, doubts and opinions, which in almost all cases were not apologist or racist in the slightest and agreed on the ban of the streamer.

I understand that it is a very sensitive topic and that part of the problem is hand-waving whether it's done in good or bad faith. I just don't see how we can improve awareness and sensitivity on such a delicate matter if just shut yourselves to any different context and blindly attack anyone that does not conform 100% to the "right" reaction to be had in such a case.

To me, the banned people were being apologists so I disagree. The banned people were justifying the use of blackface and downplaying the racism of it, so it's not about conformity but the ignorance and stubbornness to understand the racism so they saw the use of this blackface as fine because ignorance, their country being fine with racism or lacking a history of enslaving black people, and "respect"/"tribute"/"not malicious" makes it ok. Oh and pleading not to call people doing racist actions as racists.

Ebullientprism · Apr 17, 2019

After announcing her apparently 30-day suspension, Martsinkevich posted a YouTube video in which she explained that she was banned for "engaging in hateful conduct against a person or group of people." She went on to contend that she "just wanted to be similar to Lifeline from Apex...it wasn't meant to have [sic] a joke of anyone. It was just a cosplay, guys, for my favorite legend from a computer game." The Twitch streamer says that she didn't mean for her cosplay "to be painful for anyone" and apologized to those who were hurt.

30 days is fair enough. Her apology is fine too. Ideally she lives and learns and everyone moves on.

Problem is this is gonna become a lightning rod for shitbags.

Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

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