As recently as 10y ago there were commercial billboards in Austria with people in "black face".
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Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)
- Thread starter Dracil
- Start date
This. Glad Twitch took action and hope she learns, but as someone who was born/grew up in a non English speaking country, I can understand not knowing about this sort of thing - which means that she would have no reason to think of Googling it beforehand - but hey, now she knows.
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The United States is the biggest exporter of entertainment
The rest of the world fucking knows the confrontations behind blackface.
Look, we've got this whole debate in The Netherlands about 'Zwarte Piet' where people paint their faces in black (the whole country does it in december):
But the discussion in The Netherlands is mostly about the colonial past and how it reminds people of that past. (Also thanks the white sinterklaas (santa claus) and the colonial time and Moor clothing they wear. And the over exaggeration of the lips and such. I wasn't aware that painting your face black is a no-go, even if you do it with good intentions (as I think she had..?)
The things I learn..
Black face is fucking horrifying. I remember when I was 16 my friend's neighborhood was throwing like a Halloween block party. He found a bunch of face paint and I did like half black half red. I remember his dad came up to me and was like "hey, I know you didn't mean to do black face but that's kinda what you did and it's not cool" so I took it off.
That was when I was 16 and dumb. We should know by now that painting your skin black is not cool and has a dark and shitty history.
That was when I was 16 and dumb. We should know by now that painting your skin black is not cool and has a dark and shitty history.
I will never understand why people feel the need to darken their face for cosplay. Is the costume not enough?
No. Not at all.
Maybe 10% of my friends know whats blackface.
I'm risking being banned but just wanted to remind you that there's no concept of blackface in Russia. Only like 0,000001% of people who are deeply curious about American culture know about blackface and that it is considered as a bad thing in the USA.
I live in Moscow and I can guarantee that if you go on the streets and ask like 20.000 people there would be a hundred at max that heard something about that phenomenon.
I live in Moscow and I can guarantee that if you go on the streets and ask like 20.000 people there would be a hundred at max that heard something about that phenomenon.
Well, I mean, that's pretty much the reason here too. There's a historical reason behind it being a bad thing.
I could believe that she didn't know. I also think Twitch did the right thing here, regardless. As long as this doesn't come up in relation to her again, lesson learned.
With this stuff I've gone from thinking they're racist and more thinking people who do that are so brain dead stupid.
Such a fucking stupid thing to do. The ban was right though.
Such a fucking stupid thing to do. The ban was right though.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface
*US
Lots of western countries, where this isn't considered offensive, too.
I only know about this because I'm interested in US social and political issues.
It took me 8 seconds to find this story
Russians in blackface and carrying bananas
So don't fucking lie about the casual bigotry in your own country.
You clearly don't understand. Russians don't see anything offensive in painting your face pitch-black.
Lithuania, where around 0.01% of the population is from African descent. Which could explain why the issue of blackface is not something that these people are aware of. Doesn't make it less wrong of course.
Lesson learned, she didn't double down as people tend to do in these situations. Hopefully the publicity from this will help others learn that this is not OK.
I have to say on the other hand the ignorance on display by Americans on this thread is really disgusting.
I have to say on the other hand the ignorance on display by Americans on this thread is really disgusting.
I think you are the one who doesn't understand. It's not up to them, that's the whole point.
Remember when people conceptualized Obama as a monkey in Russia back in like 2016
You know you're a slime defending open bigotry in your country if you gotta preface your comment with "risking a ban here"
Stand up for your bigotry and stop wasting my time
I'm 27 and I didn't know painting your face black was racist/taboo until this post, and sure enough there's a giant Wikipedia page about it.
Painting your face black for a cosplay doesn't scream "intentionally racist" to me. I've never heard of her, but after watching her video, she was definitely just not aware of the taboo.
Painting your face black for a cosplay doesn't scream "intentionally racist" to me. I've never heard of her, but after watching her video, she was definitely just not aware of the taboo.
Well, the action and the response both seem about as frustratingly tone deaf as I've come to expect from these situations but I dearly hope this is one example in the sea of bad ones that eventually yields an understanding of exactly why they were in the wrong to do this.
But, it's internet new-media and gaming and there's a hell of a lot of room in that combined space to stubbornly carry on or double down with no consequences at all,
So for once instead of just saying "well fuck this garbage," I wish to respond like this:
1) The gaming community at large is now crossed over into mainstream society enough to earn a sense of accepted, relative ubiquity. Yeah, there are still some folks that like to scoff at it, but for the most part, it just belongs now. It has been validated. The ongoing call for it to go further as an entertainment and art form is not proof of further validation-seeking, it is simply the call to keep defining the media form, in my eyes a sign of existing validation.
2) Mainstream society in Western culture has some ongoing faults in its status quo that create real problems when it comes to equitable treatment and dignity for all of its citizens, and the history that created that status quo is still very hurtful in its legacy to people who have to live through the effects of that legacy today. The pain has not subsided. The sources of that pain have not completely ceased. Now that games are mainstream, they've become a part of this problem too, sometimes completely without wit or empathy for the actual lived pain of real people that have to suffer the lasting effects of history's social and cultural difficulties.
3) Just... Maybe don't do this kind of shit anymore, please, for reasons 1 and 2. Just because it existed already and existed in some cases with no obvious intention of doing harm to anyone doesn't mean that it exonerates the action and doesn't actually cause harm or perpetuate the existence of those social, historical hardships. Doesn't matter how much fun you're having playing videogames or how much you like the characters that maybe don't look like you, there is a larger social context beyond games that makes costuming a different skin color really painful for some people to bear witness to, because it used to be used almost exclusively for mockery and to degrade social standing through performed stereotypes. Just. Don't. Fucking. Do. It.
But, it's internet new-media and gaming and there's a hell of a lot of room in that combined space to stubbornly carry on or double down with no consequences at all,
So for once instead of just saying "well fuck this garbage," I wish to respond like this:
1) The gaming community at large is now crossed over into mainstream society enough to earn a sense of accepted, relative ubiquity. Yeah, there are still some folks that like to scoff at it, but for the most part, it just belongs now. It has been validated. The ongoing call for it to go further as an entertainment and art form is not proof of further validation-seeking, it is simply the call to keep defining the media form, in my eyes a sign of existing validation.
2) Mainstream society in Western culture has some ongoing faults in its status quo that create real problems when it comes to equitable treatment and dignity for all of its citizens, and the history that created that status quo is still very hurtful in its legacy to people who have to live through the effects of that legacy today. The pain has not subsided. The sources of that pain have not completely ceased. Now that games are mainstream, they've become a part of this problem too, sometimes completely without wit or empathy for the actual lived pain of real people that have to suffer the lasting effects of history's social and cultural difficulties.
3) Just... Maybe don't do this kind of shit anymore, please, for reasons 1 and 2. Just because it existed already and existed in some cases with no obvious intention of doing harm to anyone doesn't mean that it exonerates the action and doesn't actually cause harm or perpetuate the existence of those social, historical hardships. Doesn't matter how much fun you're having playing videogames or how much you like the characters that maybe don't look like you, there is a larger social context beyond games that makes costuming a different skin color really painful for some people to bear witness to, because it used to be used almost exclusively for mockery and to degrade social standing through performed stereotypes. Just. Don't. Fucking. Do. It.
In The Netherlands we are having this debate. Painting your face black is wrong, but there isn't always malicious intent. If people aren't aware of the negative aspects of blackface, because they've never heard about it.. how should they know it's wrong?
I've been talking with many people in my village about this. Their standard response is: ''I'm not a racist, but black pete is black pete and he should stay black. It's tradition.''
Calling them racists in their face hasn't worked well.
For the costume like Space-Marine, nobody cares how your face looks like as long as your armor is alright. For the cosplay which targets the facial features, like Suicide Squad Harley Quinn or Borderlands characters, it is all about recreating the portrait as close to the media as possible.
And then there are characters like Widowmaker or Mystique, where you wouldn't think twice whether you should paint the skin or not.
And no one gives a shit about her ignorance. It's racist, and every form of it is racist, regardless of intention. And I'll go as far as to say she SHOULD know better. If you are a part of the cosplaying community, you probably already know about past blackface controversies that caused uproar. It's all bullshit in the age of the internet.
I've never once had the urge to darken or lighten my skin. She is an idiot. Ignorance isn't a good excuse for being a dumbass. Cosplay also isn't a good excuse.
This sort of things gives you an immediate but vastly limits your future. This is gonna follow her career forever. The few she gains is gonna be outweighed by those she loses.
Really? Really?
As a foreigner who knows about blackface since a long time ago, your post is embarassing.
Sure. And Twitch has done the right thing. But we should be aware of people not knowing about the context of black face. (I wasn't even fully aware, as can be seen in my previous posts. I thought it was only a bad thing in a colonial context.)
The intent doesn't matter and ignorance isn't an excuse. The fact that people are willing to hide behind tradition to celebrate something larges swathes of people (people who suffered and are still suffering the unbridled effects of colonialism and racism) are still harmed by should tell you that sometimes it's not about how you feel. I believe you recognize that.
If it were up to "tradition" we would still have slavery and caste systems too.
Fucking stop this shit. His whole damn point was that russians largely don't give a shit, and that the history lessions that might've helped them understand is not teached there. Instead you jump on him as if he's defending it, something he's clearly not.
Yeah but there's stuff that can be written off as a spur of the moment mistake like shouting a slur in frustration (wrong but ultimately an out of character mistake), and then there's things like this which take hours of preparation and presumably days of planning.
Posts and excuses like this piss me off ALMOST as much as actual blackface. Almost. Fuck off.
Agree. But I do feel explaining things like these is way more powerful than calling people bigots or racists. Ignorance is no excuse, but it should add some understanding.
It's not an excuse. It's a reality check.
The thing she did wasn't acceptable. But she has learnt her lesson. I assume.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface
Wrong.
I can tell you that blackface is not seen as a big deal in Mexico, and we're neighbors. I've seen people do it on TV.
Though in recent years, there is a growing community of social justice activists over the internet, so if there is some new content featuring blackface there might be people calling it out now.
Where's the excuse? I'm offering an explanation to why she might've not known. She's from Lithuania, where I guaran-fucking-tee you most people don't know about the racist concept of blackface. Wtf is going on in this thread?
Yeah, I'm not surprised that they aren't familiar with it. I'm convinced her not doubling down means the whole thing was just a dumb fail (a ridiculous one at that).
Still think the ban is justified though. Sets an example.
How about the understanding to the people hurt about this suffering more than hurt feelings over traditions people are intent to defend. When does it become about them? When is the understanding of their situation afforded to them? Do you think the people suffering from racism in the year 2019 have not been patient enough already?
This is the liberal Dutch prime minister next to someone with the traditional 'black pete' face paint. Not a cry was heard.
A lot of educating has to be done.
So, what are you proposing?
I agree with you that she did something wrong. I think Twitch did the good thing. But you can't expect people who have not been confronted with this social issue to act like someone in the US would.
Fully agree that people who are hurt by this have the full right to be protected, to be supported. And I fully support banning people who do this from online platforms. But educating is also important.
A lot of educating has to be done.
So, what are you proposing?
I agree with you that she did something wrong. I think Twitch did the good thing. But you can't expect people who have not been confronted with this social issue to act like someone in the US would.
Fully agree that people who are hurt by this have the full right to be protected, to be supported. And I fully support banning people who do this from online platforms. But educating is also important.