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Parenegade

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,589
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory false equivalence surrounding online harassment; prior severe bans for racism and sexism


Like, people are ignoring that literally any trans member of twitch would receive the same harassment if it was announced that they were in this position. And if say, this person were replaced we'd see "well it sucks that they're getting harassed BUT at least she didn't call anyone in the audience an asshole like the last person."


Maybe we should point our attention to the "a lot of members of the community are racist and sexist" problem instead of tone policing the people who call it out mid harassment campaign.

The first thing they said was that we should remove voice chat from video games. You could be a white dude and get the exact. same. response.
 

MindofKB

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,077
Bay Area
User Banned (3 Months): Dismissing Concerns of Bigotry and Rationalizing Harassment
I don't really care about bigots, and they really should go somewhere else. If you'd like to coddle them go on ahead. Judging by the state of twitch and the gaming community as a whole plenty of people already do.

Refraining from saying "a lot of you gamers are white supremacists" isn't coddling bigots.

Again, when you're in a position of power, you need to realize that your words have weight.

Her saying was she said is causing a stir in the community, but at the end of the day, that's all it's doing. It's empty. So what was the point?

Twitch can be a very negative place with a lot of bigoted communication. Yeah, we know. So what are you doing about it?

Saying things to get people riled up doesn't help anyone.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I don't really care about bigots, and they really should go somewhere else. If you'd like to coddle them go on ahead. Judging by the state of twitch and the gaming community as a whole plenty of people already do.
She's not calling bigots bigots, she's calling a lot of gamers bigots. On a gaming platform.As a representative of said gaming platform. I know nuance is lost on some people, including her.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,978
Twitch put this in her introduction.

Steph has been a full time streamer since her debut playing competitive collegiate Heroes of the Storm in 2016. She was one of the first transgender streamers to ever be partnered on Twitch, and the first to bring a transgender pride flag emote to the platform. Her fight for inclusivity includes creating a competitive team composed entirely of marginalized gamers, and vehemently opposing non inclusive mechanics such as voice chat.

This whole bit makes no sense. She wants to make a competitive team for a game, but then opposes the very tool that makes it competitive. Imagine a CSGO/League of Legends/Dota/Overwatch team where there were no voice comms. Like, wut. Regardless of their skill, this team she wants to make would have a 0% win rate.

Twitch is to blame here. She is not a good fit and should have never been put in this position.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
Refraining from saying "a lot of you gamers are white supremacists" isn't coddling bigots.

I was responding to this:

Again, as a representative of a community you don't antagonize 'a lot' of said community. That's not how being a representative of a community works.

If you aren't calling them out, you may not be coddling them - but you certainly aren't making them feel uncomfortable.


Again, when you're in a position of power, you need to realize that your words have weight.

Her saying was she said is causing a stir in the community, but at the end of the day, that's all it's doing. It's empty. So what was the point?

Twitch can be a very negative place with a lot of bigoted communication. Yeah, we know. So what are you doing about it?

Saying things to get people riled up doesn't help anyone.

People in power have done a shit job of curtailing racism in the past and part of it stems from being too afraid to even say anything for fear of backlash from shit heads. The only reason her words are empty now is because Twitch itself is ass at moderating racism/sexism/transphobia.

She's not calling bigots bigots, she's calling a lot of gamers bigots. On a gaming platform.As a representative of said gaming platform. I know nuance is lost on some people, including her.

Why do you feel the need to make such a pointless distinction? It's not like bigotry while gaming online is a rare occurrence.
 

jaekeem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,743
User Banned (2 Weeks): Concern trolling on a sensitive topic
She acts like a power hungry idiot. Even if you agree with her perspective, why would you want this to be your torchbearer?
 

Carl2291

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,782
Zizaran who's on the council went onto the Scuffed podcast and gave a tldr of what the council will be doing.

www.twitch.tv

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

In short, they don't have as much power as FerociouslySteph is making out. She's not only painting the council in a bad light, she's completely misrepresenting whatever power they actually have and painting a target on everyones backs for whenever shit inevitably hits the fan sometime in the future.
 

Terra Torment

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
840
I thought this forum was supposed to be cool. Y'all are nothing but gamergaters. of course she is going to push back against the people who are digging up all her shit to smear her. It's all motivated by bigotry. You guys are like the useful idiots who think that gamergate was about ethics in games journalism. Any trans person they would have appointed would have gotten this kind of scrutiny and would have fallen short.
 

Advance_Alarm

Banned
Dec 4, 2017
316
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Concerns of Harassment
I thought this forum was supposed to be cool. Y'all are nothing but gamergaters. of course she is going to push back against the people who are digging up all her shit to smear her. It's all motivated by bigotry. You guys are like the useful idiots who think that gamergate was about ethics in games journalism. Any trans person they would have appointed would have gotten this kind of scrutiny and would have fallen short.

If someone shows themselves to be a clown then I will laugh at them. I put the "voice chat should be banned in competitive games" opinion at clown-level. That required no "digging up" because it was posted on the official announcement by Twitch.
 

Terra Torment

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
840
If someone shows themselves to be a clown then I will laugh at them. I put the "voice chat should be banned in competitive games" opinion at clown-level. That required no "digging up" because it was posted on the official announcement by Twitch.
I don't know that much about the issue but I do know that voice chat is much more difficult for those of us whose voices are marginalized.
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,160
I thought this forum was supposed to be cool. Y'all are nothing but gamergaters. of course she is going to push back against the people who are digging up all her shit to smear her. It's all motivated by bigotry. You guys are like the useful idiots who think that gamergate was about ethics in games journalism. Any trans person they would have appointed would have gotten this kind of scrutiny and would have fallen short.

No offense but your paragraph comes across as 'woke bait' 100% this forum is not perfect when it comes to trans or non binary issues, but to just call everyone gamergators comes across as wanting to stir the pot.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
If someone shows themselves to be a clown then I will laugh at them. I put the "voice chat should be banned in competitive games" opinion at clown-level. That required no "digging up" because it was posted on the official announcement by Twitch.
Gee I can't fucking imagine why voice chat in competitive games would be terrible.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,715
Yeah you are going to bump into all those huge pieces of shit online in voice chat and it sucks massive ass, but no voice chat completely changes how games are played for the worse.
 

Advance_Alarm

Banned
Dec 4, 2017
316
Gee I can't fucking imagine why voice chat in competitive games would be terrible.


Yes, people who use racist/sexist/x-phobic voice chat should be reported and punished. I also don't think voice chat should be banned, which is the position I was discussing.

However, in FS's own words, disagreeing with her means that I am a cis white male. And if I am a "gamer" I am also a white supremacist, in her own words.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Official Staff Communication
Thread is temporarily locked. Some of the posts in here are shockingly awful. We will be reviewing them and any reports we have for the thread. This could take some time.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Official Staff Communication
Couple of things to address as we reopen the thread.

First, the derail. A number of posters stopped talking about the security council, twitch's issues, or frankly anything germane to the thread, and instead focused on picking a bone with one of its members, namely, FerociouslySteph. Let's set aside the fact that women and LGBTQ+ people always take far, far more than their earned level of vitriol for any personal issues they may have, and focus on the somewhat strange accusation that she's an otherkin, just to begin with. We don't know if it's true or not and we don't care. It's a ridiculous derail. The people who started it were banned. Drop the topic.

The second issue that consumed the thread was her calling out gamers. Many gamers are in fact white supremacists and misogynists. You can either grapple with that or collapse into a quivering pile of fragility, but it's the truth. Trying to argue that her calling that out is prejudiced herself would be laughable if it weren't also downplaying the real issues that plague actually oppressed minorities. Framing the twitch clip as 'power tripping' is something we have and will be moderating, when the context of the clip is a trans woman being harassed who is clapping back at bigots and harassers.

Going forward, please examine the posts that caught bans. Please report posts like them in the future, and if you were thinking of *making* one... obviously, don't. Take care to consult the general guide and respect your fellow members.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,442
Sweden
Today, Twitch is announcing the formation of its new Safety Advisory Council, a group made up of streamers, academics, and nonprofit leaders that will advise the company on online safety issues. The council will help Twitch draft new policies and update old ones, develop new products for safety and moderation, protect the interests of marginalized people, and identify new, toxic trends emerging from the platform.
This is desperately needed. Twitch is a cesspool with how nonexistent the moderation is and the type of behaviours that have been allowed to fester in chat. Whether anything will ACTUALLY change is still up in the air of course, but here's hoping things actually change for the better this time
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
This is desperately needed. Twitch is a cesspool with how nonexistent the moderation is and the type of behaviours that have been allowed to fester in chat. Whether anything will ACTUALLY change is still up in the air of course, but here's hoping things actually change for the better this time
Reddit moderation has only one principle - Do we make a ton of money off this person? Y/N

Don't see how any council is gonna change it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
I will say Twitch needs to get better at moderation and enforcing their rules. Look at the reactions in this thread and elsewhere. They've helped foster it by not enforcing their rules and allowing problematic people to continue to use their platform.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,122
UK
"We said in our blog post we were looking for the council to advise on a variety of things, from advising on new policies to promoting healthy streaming habits, but we could have been clearer about tasks the council will not be involved with. Council members will not make moderation decisions, nor will they have access to any details on specific moderation cases. They are not Twitch employees, and they do not speak on Twitch's behalf. While we value their opinions and their right to share them, they are independent actors who will have opinions that aren't shared either by Twitch, Twitch employees, or even by other members of the council. Nevertheless, we believe that having diverse viewpoints will make the council and its recommendations stronger, and ultimately better for our community."

So, literally an advisory board. I'm glad they got such a board of people with variety of viewpoints and perspectives. Diversity helps with better and more inclusive workplaces and communities. Maybe some got their feathers ruffled misinterpreting it as a moderation council.

On another point, you have to be wildly ignorant or privileged if you believe Twitch chat is nice to non-white, non-cis, non-heterosexual folks, and isn't bigoted most of the time. Voice chat is for the majority not inclusive of female or trans voices. Most gamers have bigoted views, just like most white people are racist even on unconscious and unintentional levels because what privilege and social conditioning (which for many years has been conservative) does to us. Silent gamers don't help, and they become part of the majority by not voicong their displeasure. This shouldn't be controversial. It's just a tragic fact and acknowledging it is one of the steps to improving the status quo. Rather than get defensive and deny to maintain the status quo aka be a SQW.
 
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