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Twitch establishes a 'Safety Advisory Council' to help it sort out its rules
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I have zero confidence in twitch caring about this council as soon as their advice impedes them making money.
In theory this council is a good thing, I just don't think it's more than lip service for twitch.
In theory this council is a good thing, I just don't think it's more than lip service for twitch.
exactly, blows my mind Cohh would of agreed to be associated with this hes been around long enough to see how this is going to pan out
It's very easy to gain trust, just start permabanning big streamers that constantly ignore the rules of the site. Or do this publicity stunt, that will work as well.
Not rally their fault if Twitch ignores their advice and guidance, is it now?
Cohh is pretty optimistic person and this kinda stuff is what he wants to influence on within Twitch so to me it makes sense he joined this. He wants to give this genuine shot and believe that Twitch would listen. If they don't expect him to call them out on it.
Completely agree. Twitch already has rules in place that should be adequate, the problem is they don't give a toss about enforcing those rules on anyone that makes them a decent amount of money.
Almost all discussion of this right now is centered around FerociouslySteph who is a trans woman and on the council. She is getting a lot of hate from the livestreamfail community for her comments about voice chat.
Here's him explaining why he joined: https://livestreamfails.com/post/81045
Here's him explaining why he joined: https://livestreamfails.com/post/81045
Almost all discussion of this right now is centered around FerociouslySteph who is a trans woman and on the council. She is getting a lot of hate from the livestreamfail community for her comments about voice chat.
Here's him explaining why he joined: https://livestreamfails.com/post/81045
This is the main clip that caused her to become scrutinized at first, those other clips came later: https://clips.twitch.tv/PopularAgileWoodpeckerShadyLulu
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Haven't seen those clips yet but on the blog in the OP, this does kind of stand out as strange, at least without more context:
"Her fight for inclusivity includes creating a competitive team composed entirely of marginalized gamers, and vehemently opposing non inclusive mechanics such as voice chat."
User Banned (1 Week): Off topic commentary causing a derail
I'm aware of that one and the one where she says she goes to her backyard and eats grass because of her deer spirit, but I didn't know how to bring those up.
She basically said "everyone is against voice chat except cis white males" which is...uh... i dont know about that one lol.
The rules have never been more laced than they are now. This is just to create another barrier to tell people to contact that council if you have any issues with people getting banned and not getting banned.
Afaik livestreamfail is covering every single controversial thing or blunder on the website.
Whether its Alinitys animal cruelty, someone sucking at a videogame, someone getting blown out in a political debate, to dumb slapstick stuff.
Not sure what "from a website called livestreamfail" is supposed to mean.
So the only one I'm familiar with is Cohh and he's always come across as a decent dude but I'm not quite sure why he's on that council outside of being a big name.
He won't know what it's like to be a minority on Twitch, and as for the work-life balance stuff, he became notable because he streamed for a long time every day straight iirc
He even says he doesn't want things to change much which is...not great with regards to some of Twitch's rep.
He won't know what it's like to be a minority on Twitch, and as for the work-life balance stuff, he became notable because he streamed for a long time every day straight iirc
He even says he doesn't want things to change much which is...not great with regards to some of Twitch's rep.
User Banned (1 Week): Off topic commentary causing a derail
She's made some stupid statements so people are piling on her. There probably is also an aspect of transphobia behind it. The bigger reason she is getting attention though is probably because she is an otherkin, which is something I never knew about. From a quick google search:
"Otherkin are a subculture who socially and spiritually identify as not entirely human."
I saw a video of her acting like a deer and immedietly turned it off, couldn't watch it all.
Almost all discussion of this right now is centered around FerociouslySteph who is a trans woman and on the council. She is getting a lot of hate from the livestreamfail community for her comments about voice chat.
Here's him explaining why he joined: https://livestreamfails.com/post/81045
I respect Cohh immensely but that is a toothless statement cause its Twitch it doesn't matter what the rules are as written the only rule that matter is how much money and visibility you make for Twitch/Amazon
If you make less then x amount of money its discipline first ask questions later well never cause no one at twitch ever addresses bans
and its you make more than that x the rules don't apply.
It means that I don't trust a website about focusing negative attention on people to have anyone's best interests at heart.
No, she said "a lot of people with cis white male sounding voices are here telling me that this isn't a problem." She's saying that the majority of the people getting mad at her for saying voice chat is bad are the people that are significantly less affected by the toxicity of the platform.
consider the recent report of Valorant's exec. producer saying she never uses the solo queue because it's too toxic
Who cares though? What effect does this have on her ability to be a member of this council?
Her opinion of voice chat is beyond stupid. Competitive games arent a bubble things exist outside of it for communication. Using that to "Level the playingfield" at a high level where things like discord exist. Ingame voice modulation is better.Almost all discussion of this right now is centered around FerociouslySteph who is a trans woman and on the council. She is getting a lot of hate from the livestreamfail community for her comments about voice chat.
Here's him explaining why he joined: https://livestreamfails.com/post/81045
Don't you see a issue with the statement, how does a voice sound white and even cis? I obviously agree that there is a toxicity problem with voice chat, especially in competetive games but her statement was just stupid.
Apart from the stupid comments, I agree her being trans and otherkin shouldn't really matter on her ability to be a council member. Was just stating why she was getting alot of attention from websites and groups like lviestreamfails.
Eh. Could go well but I doubt they'll have much sway. They advise something, and then Twitch ask their business guys to tot up if it might lose them money. Latter wins every time. Maybe I'm being overly cynical but that's the wall I think will be there.
Regarding that lass everyone's going on about, don't see why her being a bit weird matters. Doesn't effect her ability to do this job. I did see the clips of her talking about voice chat and arriving at a pretty fucking stupid conclusion so she might not be the sharpest tool in the box. Seems par the course on Twitch. But still doesn't deserve all the negative attention.
Regarding that lass everyone's going on about, don't see why her being a bit weird matters. Doesn't effect her ability to do this job. I did see the clips of her talking about voice chat and arriving at a pretty fucking stupid conclusion so she might not be the sharpest tool in the box. Seems par the course on Twitch. But still doesn't deserve all the negative attention.
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It was a big mistake to pick her just for those comments. Not even considering some of her other controversial clips.
Def a bad move by Twitch.
Doubt anything will come out of this. Amazon and Twitch prefers the money, instead of taking actions.
The website just serves as a mirror for the clips created on Twitch, because streamers and/or Twitch are deleting the official clips. The actual problem of livestreamfails is the dedicated subreddit, which is one of the most toxic and selective places of Twitch. The latest thing they pulled was deleting clips of Dr. Disrespect supporting the 5G Covid19 consipracy, because it was "too political". They are incredibly selective, especially when something could do harm to their favorite streamers, but they for sure are not selective when a female streamer shows cleavage, a nipple or more on stream, accidental or not.
It's not the first time that r/livestreamfails fuels a harassment campaign and it also won't be the last time, until something is done about this "community".
The website just serves as a mirror for the clips created on Twitch, because streamers and/or Twitch are deleting the official clips. The actual problem of livestreamfails is the dedicated subreddit, which is one of the most toxic and selective places of Twitch. The latest thing they pulled was deleting clips of Dr. Disrespect supporting the 5G Covid19 consipracy, because it was "too political". They are incredibly selective, especially when something could do harm to their favorite streamers, but they for sure are not selective when a female streamer shows cleavage, a nipple or more on stream, accidental or not.
It's not the first time that r/livestreamfails fuels a harassment campaign and it also won't be the last time, until something is done about this "community".
All I'm reading is a deer is now basically Head of Twitch, and I am super okay with that!
In all seriousness, I do actually think she's not wrong with those clips above. Yes, a huge amount of the "gamer" subculture is filled with toxic assholes and, pretty safe to say, a good amount of white supremacists as well. Just take a look at twitter, facebook and the like, outside of your own safe havens. The whole gamergate thing was full of white supremacy and anti-jew propaganda, the ongoing harrassment of trans people, the mockery of everyone who's even a little bit different, every single debate about non cis-white-male main characters in games, like, literally almost every single one.
And yes, getting rid of "mandatory" voice chat, or voice chat perceived as such, would level the playing field not only for trans people who struggle with finding their literal voice, but also a shit ton of girls and women, who are still, in 2020, being immediately harrassed, punched down or ridiculed, as soon as they enter almost any kind of online gaming environment, regardless of it being a shooter, a fighting game or idk Dota.
What she says does sound ridiculous on the surface, at a first glance, but I'm afraid a lot of it is true, boys.
In all seriousness, I do actually think she's not wrong with those clips above. Yes, a huge amount of the "gamer" subculture is filled with toxic assholes and, pretty safe to say, a good amount of white supremacists as well. Just take a look at twitter, facebook and the like, outside of your own safe havens. The whole gamergate thing was full of white supremacy and anti-jew propaganda, the ongoing harrassment of trans people, the mockery of everyone who's even a little bit different, every single debate about non cis-white-male main characters in games, like, literally almost every single one.
And yes, getting rid of "mandatory" voice chat, or voice chat perceived as such, would level the playing field not only for trans people who struggle with finding their literal voice, but also a shit ton of girls and women, who are still, in 2020, being immediately harrassed, punched down or ridiculed, as soon as they enter almost any kind of online gaming environment, regardless of it being a shooter, a fighting game or idk Dota.
What she says does sound ridiculous on the surface, at a first glance, but I'm afraid a lot of it is true, boys.
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You're right that in many cases anyone with a 'marginalized voice' will be insulted if attempting to talk in random public voice lobby in a game, but what does 'getting rid of mandatory voice chat' mean? The removal of voice chat from online games?
The biggest mistake was highlighting her stance on voice chat on the news about this council, because it gives the impression that it's supported by Twitch.
I cannot process how they greenlighted that text. Anybody with half a brain would recognise that that specific sentence would cause controversy and put all eyes on her.
Not everything must be solved though removal of options. As an example, look at Apex Legends. A genre which was deemed as unplayable without chat and proper teamwork via microphone, and it doesn't need voice chat at all. Then there's other options like making voice-on not the standard setting, offering voice filters as a default option, giving more options for non voice based communication etc. Hell, just offering basic quick emotes that are actually useful instead of dances and memes is helping.
It's really not that hard to think about more solutions. Imagine you actually wouldn't be physically able to talk, period, and go from there.
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I should have just read your paragraph better. It's true there are good alternatives for 'perceived mandatory' voice chat in many cases, though I think just for speed it would remain the primary for the upper tier of competitive play. This is why we need PSO Symbol Chat in every game!!!
Not a replacement for voice in all cases but on this topic, I think Star Citizen has sign language emotes that your player model can perform which is cool.
When you make streamers be leaders of your group shelving quietly wont be easy. Especially some like Cohh will let his community know if this board isn't listened to or is put to side by Twitch.
I would like to be wrong but nothing in Twitch's history inspires confidence. I will give them props when they show substantial growth in actions and policy from this.
It all doesn't realy matter, he will continue to stream on twitch and all the people will continue to watch him.
Twitch is never going to ban a big part of of their fewers or big streamers like Dr disrespect.
Maybe if people like Coh threaten to leave over this stuff, things change, but I am not confident.
It's a massive one on reddit right now, one of the streamers on there took up the entire first page with clipped comments she made that the community did not like... to put lightly
She was also touting about how she now has ban immunity
they didn't think this through AT ALL, especially with who's on it
Ziz is a great pick as well as cohh, the rest are fairly small streamers afaik, I watched ziz do a podcast type thing explaining it to other streamers and he was agreeing with the negatives up and down and wasn't super happy about the attention some of the other members were getting but understood it was mainly their doing
Edit: already mentioned
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100% this. Honestly shocked to see cohh on the list. Watched the clip and I understand his reasoning, but I think it is incredibly naive to think the council will be anything more than a scapegoat.
I don't really understand what that one person's views on voice chat have to do with this council at all? Is she talking about voice chat in the context of streamers talking over their streams? Or do they mean in game voice chat, which isn't really relevant to this council?
Im also 100% of the view that this group is going to soak up the hate for any bans Twitch makes even if they weren't involved and will be ignored by Twitch if they call out any big streamers.
Im also 100% of the view that this group is going to soak up the hate for any bans Twitch makes even if they weren't involved and will be ignored by Twitch if they call out any big streamers.
Whats there to trust? Its mostly just regular people sending them clips. If you dont like platforms with mostly negative content why are you on Era exactly.
"White cis male voices" is an equally dumb statement. Whats a white cis male voice. Do they sound different from gay people? How can she distinguish between an asian and white voice.
Maybe theres no harassment campaign and people are just pointing out she said dumb shit.
Oh I thought we were just talking about the site, wasnt aware of the subreddit. My bad then.
People like Cohh can't leave Twitch if they want to stream for living.
Mixer is no way hell going to pay millions for middle the road variety streamer and other platforms just don't have userbase to sustain streamers well. Shroud and Ninja went to Mixer because they most likely got solid 7 to 8 figure deals and Doc is on Twitch for something similar amount I imagine.
Cohh even has said that for him to move to other platform he would need to get so insane deal to make it worth for him that it isn't happening.
Then Twitch maybe would do something if all mega streamer threatened to leave, but like they showed with Doc they just pay insane money instead.
So yes, I'm cynical about this board achieving anything. I just don't buy into board staying silent if they are sidelined.
Unfortunately, the major problem is that you can ban the streamers, but the money-making does come from a lot of viewers that harbours views and beliefs deeply rooted in the gaming community. That is your homophobia, your sexism, etc. There are streamers that know their viewers are hateful and should call them out, but don't or won't because it would impede their ability to make money.
That's why I think the idea of a council is bullshit, because they can't fucking police the community, never mind the steamers.
That's why I think the idea of a council is bullshit, because they can't fucking police the community, never mind the steamers.
A white cis male can be gay or straight. Perception of race based on voice doesn't have to be accurate for people to target harassment at people they perceive to not be white. Toxic people on the internet will harass you based on how you differ from their presumed default. It doesn't matter if it's founded in universal truth. If they think you sound feminine or sound like you aren't a white dude in any way you are more likely to be harassed. I believe her point is that people that are less likely to experience the harassment are the ones most strongly opposed to her because they're arguing from a position of privilege which blinds them to the experiences of others.