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And that's true, I agree, but it's very easy to point fingers when you see them constantly getting away with murder while other people got banned for crotch accidentally bulging a little bit more than "acceptable" or wearing shorts that were one centimetre smaller than the TOS specifies for legitimately doing sports. Especially because these people know exactly what they're doing and are 100% aware that with the amount of money they bring they can actually get away with it so keep on pushing, it's not like they're oblivious to the fact that Twitch's rules enforcement is inconsistent: they're conciously exploiting it.
Is there really a disparity between bans tho?
All of the hot tub and leggings streamers have been banned multiple times, a regular ban means nothing on twitch.
Or are you saying people got permabanned for having shorts a centimeter too short.
That is 100% twitch's fault for having poorly defined and enforced rules.
You realize this is exactly the argument a lot of people level at the video games industry? =P
For as rampant as you make this sound you'd think this would be a reoccurring conversation on this forum and not just a talking point whenever there's a thread about women getting banned for existing. But then someone would actually have to provide receipts and no one's trying to do that, clearly.
No, those people haven't been permabanned for a slip up, and yes, these big streamers have also received temp bans (eventually) but my point still stands: while smaller streamers get taken down almost immediately for slip ups, bigger ones need several days on the front page of reddit and people asking twitch for days on social media what the fuck is up with their rules enforcement before they get eventually their slap on the wrist, then they're back at doing their thing again.
Women are not "banned for existing" and I don't know where the hell in my post are your reading that. These women are banned because there's a rule in twitch that says (copy pasted from the very first page of this thread):
And that's exactly what these people were deliberately doing with the excuse of ASMR, knowing full well that given their high-revenue status Twitch would take much longer to issue a ban than it takes for a regular folk.
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Wait, why? It's just a kink. I don't really get it, but I don't feel like it's really embarrassing or cringe.
And twitch could easily solve the "problem" by permabanning every hot tub streamer and leggings streamer, but they don't because they know it has a huge audience, and there is a big demand for it on twitch.
Boob streamers are constantly getting minor bans on twitch, i know some people get bans for minor infractions occasionally but how often does it really happen, is it a common thing?
I genuinely don't know, whenever i see people mentioning stuff like that they always seem to point to the same two or three highly talked about "cases", sometimes for shit that happened years ago.
I mean you literally asked for an example.
The constant snark if not condescension people have on this forum doesn't help at all with any kind of discussion
OP
OP
Isn't Twitch a Gaming live Stream website, that's how it started and mostly about still but nowadays the most controversial stuff is non gaming but still.
And all we are asking for is exactly that. Consistent rule enforcing no matter how big the streamer is. I agree that with hot tubs the wording in the rules was not 100% clear because it talked about swimming pools and beaches, I'll give them that and Twitch should improve in clarity. But for the blatant cases like the one in this thread where it's almost like streamers read the TOS, saw what's very clearly forbidden (camera focus on breasts, buttocks, or pelvic region, including
poses that deliberately highlight these elements) and went "guess what? we're going to do EXACTLY that to a T and see for how long can we get away with it" a permaban is the only solution if only to set example and deter future serial TOS breakers trying to make big bucks out of it.
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Not really, there are still plenty of women on twitch that manage to do just fine without getting in the hot tub, they aren't really going after the same audience.
How do we rescue that Psyduck?Bird meta is where it's at now
I literally just went there after reading this comment.
Blessed content.
Whatever rules Twitch makes people are going to find ways to skirt around them. That's why I think Twitch just needs to establish some standards for itself and stick to them. If people want to continuously try and skirt the rules then they should be issued a warning to stop trying to get around the rules and ban them if they don't. If they want to allow this weird pseudo erotica stuff then they should make that known.
Personally I'd prefer they ban this stuff. Everyone wants to celebrate them for getting that money, but making money and just doing whatever you want isn't always empowering. It can be damaging to other female streamers and yes, it's possible to make money in ways that's degrading and damaging to your community, sometimes just doing whatever you want isn't what's right.
My thoughts on this aren't limited to these types of streams either, Twitch hasn't been very good at enforcing standards across all streams no matter who it is, probably worse in some instances.
Personally I'd prefer they ban this stuff. Everyone wants to celebrate them for getting that money, but making money and just doing whatever you want isn't always empowering. It can be damaging to other female streamers and yes, it's possible to make money in ways that's degrading and damaging to your community, sometimes just doing whatever you want isn't what's right.
My thoughts on this aren't limited to these types of streams either, Twitch hasn't been very good at enforcing standards across all streams no matter who it is, probably worse in some instances.
So the women doing ASMR who have complained that they're now getting an influx of people requesting they do what Indie and Amrouranth did are lying? Or perhaps is it just that your argument is complete bullshit?
User banned (2 months): Dismissing and minimizing sexual harassment over multiple posts
Oh no, there are more viewers on their streams, how terrible for their channels.
Are you arguing that misguided viewers is harassment? Are their number tanking, are they losing subs? Minor annoyances is hardly hurting their streaming.
this is your idea of defending women then huh, so fucking based wow 💀
"Calm down, ladies. Sure they're harassing you, but your numbers are up!"
What am amazing ally to them you are.
She's saying what a lot of people on era are scared to say.
So basically what you're saying is that women should accept being harassed if it's good for their viewership numbers.
Fuck off.
Are they harassing them? Are viewers mistaking the kind of ASMR the streamer is doing the same as harassement?
That the oposite of what I'm saying.
That's exactly what you said and you don't get to weasel out of it.
Wait, so are we really saying that twitch comments going like "do earlicking ASMR next" on these channels is harassment? And that the bigger streamers doing it are the ones to blame?
Consistently pushing people to do sexualised content? Yea, absolutely harassment.
"Wear yoga shorts, spread your legs, point your ass at the camera and tongue the mic" is fucking harassment.
For a lot of people this is their job. Having people coming into their chat to sexually harass them at work by suggesting they fellate their microphone is not something they should have to deal with.
Officially, no, but everything that's come out since the immediate aftermath points towards Twitch welching on the exclusivity contract Doc signed.
There's other platforms for that. For like the 4th of 5th time in this thread, the following content is very clearly forbidden by the Twitch TOS and they were doing it verbatim, on purpose, knowing that Twitch would take time to ban them because they bring big bucks:
camera focus on breasts, buttocks, or pelvic region, including poses that deliberately highlight these elements
They were banned for that, not for licking a microphone and calling it ASMR
It's the kind of content that would've been on their sub exclusive patreon tiers a mere two years ago. Something weird is going down at Twitch right now and I can't wait to see how they're going to address it when it becomes critical.
I like watching people stream games on Twitch. I got no beef with people also talking politics, or cooking, or painting or etc, but I feel it's disingenuous to act like there isn't a clear distinction between that kinda stuff and these banned channels. I also don't think it's misogynistic or anti-sex work to say so. They know exactly what they're doing, and I think Twitch should be being much harsher about it. Their semi-relaxed rules that apply to some but not others, especially anyone who's more popular, are clearly turning into an absolute disaster. Like, Amouranth has *easily* earned a permaban at this point, others have copped them for less, but no, they make more money from her by always being slow and reactive, while at the same time every time another one of these issues comes up it does damage to Twitch overall and has knock-on effects on other streamers.
Yes? Of course?
Here are a couple recent clips I found in a minute on LSF since you weren't willing to do any research yourself
This is where I'm kind of at. It may seem idyllic, but having a corner of the internet filled with gamers and cool people sharing cool interests, without it devolving into humping inflatable bananas in kiddie pools and farting into and licking microphones, seemed pretty awesome to me. Especially for a platform that was opened up to young teens. I personally think it would be nice to return to some semblance of that, or if not, have Twitch create separate sections that more explicitly separate out the sexualized content.
I thought Twitch's stance that 'women's bodies being found sexy, does not mean they are being sexual' was a great one. Alanah Pearce has talked about how because she lives in warm climates, she has streamed before in tank tops, but because she is naturally busty a lot of men claim she is sexualizing her streams when that happens. No woman should feel like she is doing something wrong or breaking rules just because a bunch of horny man-children get set off by a woman's cleavage or midriff or what have you. I want to see talented women content creators shine and succeed on the platform without being subject to a misogynistic environment.
But to reasonable people, the entire "hot tub meta" was clearly exploiting a loophole in what I believe was Twitch's intent. It was pushing the line to see how far things could be taken while still maintaining a paper-thin veil of plausible deniability that it wasn't content that was "sexual" in nature (using that term, broadly). Now, because Twitch took steps to make the "hot tub" streams less lucrative, you have a relatively small number of streamers seeing where else they can push the line and find loopholes.*** And in the example of Amouranth, she has come out and explicitly said she doesn't care if her actions hurt all the existing ASMR streamers; she just wants to earn as much however she can, wherever she can. I think that's messed up.
***In the case of the camera angles they were using with the TikTok leggings, it wasn't a loophole but rather a breaking of the TOS.
I'm saying that twitch is inconsistent AF.
Snark helps when people aren't being genuinely concerned about a thing. Like what kids are watching on twitch.
I think this is good. Twitch should put their foot down on this nonsense. These streamers are selfish people who have invaded an already established community with their sexualization. They are not only messing things up for other ASMR people but women. The hot tub stuff was fine. This isn't like that. I'd say Amouranth should be permabanned tbh.
IRL stuff(Just chatting) is good for twitch. Some of the biggest streamers on the platform who got big on playing games have and are jumping into IRL stuff now that the Pandemic is waning in areas and they can meet their friends.
How do not get that? Like if they don't want to and people keep telling them to do it...it's the definition of harassing.
I like watching small streamers draw or do animation so no.