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Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
It's pointless to pick out logic flaws in the apartment part, because it's all in his head using dream logic.

So yeah the picture doesn't make sense, it's not real, it only works in dream logic.
Now I'm not saying this is good! This is the biggest problem with "it's just a dream" is it completely invalidates everything and makes it immune to criticism in the dumbest way.

Yeah it just kind of sucks in a clockwork/logic game when you're supposed to ostensibly be solving a murder when the solution doesn't follow what one would logically deduce from the clues. Same thing with not being able to initially interact with/see the vent in the bathroom or get your wife to cooperate with you to interrogate the cop even when she knows about the time loop.

So is Bumblebee real or in his head? Neither the husband or wife ever acknowledge that they have another sister.

In his head. The cop is a manifestation of the husband's guilt/his knowledge of the father's desire to protect his daughter.
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
So I finished this yesterday and in a fairly unconventional way got the hypnosis true ending immediately upon getting back to the apartment after the reveal. After some digging tpday I finally fully understand what happened. I can't say I'm a complete fan of this game, the story and honestly gameplay in a lot of wats are clumsy. It was also surprisingly buggy on Xbox. I got a couple crashes (one immediately after the protag drops to his knees in the twist sequence!) And they literally forgot to remove placeholder text when trying to shoot various things in the environment with the gun (and lack any animations that were clearly planned given the text).

But overall, it was such a uniquely cool game that I can't help but really like it.
 

Karsha

Member
May 1, 2020
2,494
Just finished the game with all endings, here's my theory of the finale:

All the game is actually in your head, a projection on what the future could be. I think the game is set 2 minutes before the New Year and after you have met your sister and fallen for her during the last week of the year (after she shot her father for Xmas but before the New Year). At this point the protagonist goes and confronts the father. We know somehow the father has hypnosis abilities. During the normal gameplay you start at a corridor with 3 pictures, the pictures are what you see at your father's office, the red book and bookshelf, the flower he tells you about to focus and the watch which becomes a major key during the plot. To me this is an hypnosis of what would happen if the protagonist continues the love, in his mind he'd kill his father, live with his girlfriend and the cop that shows later with his father's appearance is actually the manifestation of his guilt that becomes unbearable when he realizes he will have a kid now.
The other alternative is his projection on what will happen if he gives up all, he will live alone with no one to love but with the option to still return to this point, the present and make a choice.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
I think the problem people have with the photo is because of a change of course, it was not supposed to be a polaroid i think but a newspaper clip with Sarah's photo (proper date and location, if you datamine a little you see all the flags are "newspaper")... but why would she be on the first page of a local newspaper...mystery xD

Hypnosis clearly did a number on Aaron...
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
So in summary:

The entire game is a fantasy of the protagonist imagining what would happen if he killed his father and married and impregnated his half sister who he is romantically interested in. It ends with the father hypnotizing the son into forgetting about his half-sister.

Right?
 
OP
OP
cabelhigh

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,722
"Continue" isn't the true ending.

"Mindfulness" is the true ending.

www.youtube.com

12 Minutes - "Mindfulness" achievement ending [SPOILERS]

Unfortunately, it's not a big change over the Continue ending. Do the exact same things required for the Continue ending, but... click on the book... later. ...

Everything was in his head. The cop doesn't exist and is just a manifestation of the father telling him the harsh truth in the book-filled room. Dafoe is the father and only the father.

The more I sat and thought about this game, the worse it gets.

If this is the real ending, then the whole plot REALLY makes no god damn sense. What an incredible waste of time. Like, the events in the Loop BARELY connect to the real world plot at all, besides the incest.
 

BrokenBox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
174
So in summary:

The entire game is a fantasy of the protagonist imagining what would happen if he killed his father and married and impregnated his half sister who he is romantically interested in. It ends with the father hypnotizing the son into forgetting about his half-sister.

Right?

I think this is pretty much it, yeah.

Like, why incest? There's so many things I really enjoy about this game, and would honestly look at it a toooon more fondly if not for that. I love Lynch-ian dream logic, the game design was impressive albeit frustrating. The twist really does ruin it and for no good reason.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I'm seeing nothing but people bashing this game's story on Twitter. Figured I would check out the spoiler thread to see what hap--



wait what

Yeah, the entire game is a fantasy of the protagonist wanting to kill his dad and imagining what would happen, but the protagonist eventually decides to let his father wipe his memories of his sister.
 

Maxxan

Member
Jan 7, 2018
224
Didn't enjoy this at all, all solutions felt way too specific and there was so much trial and error. When the wife asked the cop to check the photo on the fridge, and I had already taken it, there was no way for me to show them the photo. He checked the fridge and concluded it wasn't there and when I tried to show them the photo he choked med to death.
 

icecream

Member
Oct 27, 2017
700
So in summary:

The entire game is a fantasy of the protagonist imagining what would happen if he killed his father and married and impregnated his half sister who he is romantically interested in. It ends with the father hypnotizing the son into forgetting about his half-sister.

Right?
By the time he met his father in the study, it was to tell him that the half-sister was pregnant with a baby. This is what causes the father to grief and reveal their tragedy.

After that, I can buy that he hypnotizes the husband, who then goes through a fantasy of returning back home, interacting with his wife-half-sister.

But then… why a time loop at all? And if the "cop" is the manifestation of the father and his guilt, why the whole story beat of him going after the wife-half-sister, hunting for the watch, and killing everyone (because even when you let the cop get everything he wants, he kills both of you regardless).

And what explains the whole backstory of the "cop" with his "daughter" Bumblebee and dying of cancer? What is the whole point of that motivator? Or the backstory of the "cop" being there the night the father (who is the cop?) dies?

If you have to take all of that as some sort of metaphor because it's the husband's dream, it makes even less sense to rationalize how it came from his subconscious than it is to take it as real events and stories.
 

Type VII

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,302
You know how people often ask for mindfuck anime recommendations and Evangelion and Serial Experiments Lain are examples of good suggestions? I'm recommending this every time someone asks for a mindfuck game recommendation. I wasn't expecting that ending at all.
 

OtakuCoder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,362
UK
You know how people often ask for mindfuck anime recommendations and Evangelion and Serial Experiments Lain are examples of good suggestions? I'm recommending this every time someone asks for a mindfuck game recommendation. I wasn't expecting that ending at all.

This is more like something for someone who likes Oreimo
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,690
Argentina
Played for 45 minutes and noped.

This feels like the first branched narrative game ever made, like they didn't learn anything from other games made in the last 10 years or more.

Edit: Oh this is not the OT, sorry.
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
Bit of a Heavy rain situation for me where I really enjoyed the entire game right until the ending twists. That has kinda soured me a bit on the game, but I still really enjoyed most of it.
Also decided to use a guide for some of the later parts, which I'm a bit conflicted about whether that was a bad idea or not. Just feel like I might not have figured out what exactly to do on my own without getting too frustrated.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
I don't think I actually noticed any changes. I think at one point I thought "Oh, did that flower pot always look like this?" but I kinda just assumed that there would be some time related twist later on and the flower just aged lol.

Also I was stuck so long on the puzzle where you had to show the "cop" proove that your wife didn't kill your father. I kept showing him the picture and was just like "Cute picture, now what". It took me 3-4 loops to realize that it only works if you look at the picture first.
 
Sep 12, 2018
19,846
They really said "Let's make a twist similar to (spoiler for a popular Korean revenge thriller ahead) Oldboy but remove the cruel irony and thematic relevance", good game completely undone by its final revelations
 

GlassCup64

Member
Dec 16, 2017
1,132
Finished the game today. I'm really disappointed by the overall narrative and endings. Looks like I'm not the only one.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
There's a lot hate for this game here.

I saw 8s and 9s reviews. Twist aside, I had fun with the game. :-/

I mean the premise itself is not bad. Looking at ideas like rumination on guilt being like a time loop, how guilt always intrudes on you when you do something wrong, these are decent themes and metaphors to base a game around. This game, though, mechanically and storytelling-wise has a few couple problems:

1. There are only 2 or 3 real puzzles to solve. The pills (trivial), the light switch (cool and maybe the only "a-ha" moment the game offers), and getting Bumblebee's number (also trivial). Everything else the game either tells you the solution (look below the medicine cabinet) or it's just a matter of showing objects to people at the right time. Lots of red herrings and missed opportunities (I wanted to work with together with the wife at some point).

2. The themes and plot don't align in a satisfying way. If you want a Shyamalan twist, it may be kind of cheesy, but at least those usually make you go "ohhhh" and think about all the clues leading up to it. Looking at games like Inside, Silent Hill 2, KOTOR, they pull this off to varying degrees of success. Here, the game simply withholds information until you're right before the end and goes "gotcha!" so there's nothing really interesting about it as a twist.

That's just my opinion though.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,553
Hey here's a question

Why is the wife so shocked when you tell her she has a brother despite her being the one that gave you that information
 

Deleted member 511

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,676
Got all the achievements. The twist was dumb (I somehow predicted it but in a 'They wouldn't actually do that lol' sort of way) but I feel like going back and having to do all the loops for the stuff I missed (the phases of the paintings) and endings kind of left me feeling more hollow towards the game than the twist did in the end. At least I laughed at that.

Hey here's a question

Why is the wife so shocked when you tell her she has a brother despite her being the one that gave you that information
That confused me too lol. I guess it could be written off as her being in denial but that's being generous towards the writing.
 

TrashyPanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,923
They really said "Let's make a twist similar to (spoiler for a popular Korean revenge thriller ahead) Oldboy but remove the cruel irony and thematic relevance", good game completely undone by its final revelations

That film was the first thing to pop in my head, and I wish the comparison could be done in kinder context. The game has no idea what it wants to do with the twist and I'd doesn't really leave me thinking like that film did. I probably might have liked the game more if I had never seen it.

Overall though, I found it to be enjoyable. Even with the twist, it was a decent thriller. Might be humming a different tune if it wasn't on Games Pass
 

sku

Member
Feb 11, 2018
782
What a trash game. I can't believe this got decent reviews. At least the comments here confirm I'm not crazy
 

tiebreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,117
So in summary:

The entire game is a fantasy of the protagonist imagining what would happen if he killed his father and married and impregnated his half sister who he is romantically interested in. It ends with the father hypnotizing the son into forgetting about his half-sister.

Right?

Just finished it, and that's my take as well.

The time loop is just him imagining future scenarios, probably influenced by suggestions from the father.

The only part I got stuck at was trying to extract info from the cop. I didn't realize I can actually aim at parts of the body, as the first time I wanted to threaten him using the gun, I ended up just killing him.
 
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Golbez

Member
Oct 20, 2020
2,456
Should've named it 12 Twists instead. The story is awful but jesus christ the ending is so upsetting lol
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,627
Hey here's a question

Why is the wife so shocked when you tell her she has a brother despite her being the one that gave you that information

3171n4.png
 

CanUKlehead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,393
The only way the story even makes sense to me is if everything that happens in the apartment, including the marriage, is all inside his head. The wife not recognising the dad, the whole dad/cop thing in general, not remembering he killed the dad, etc. I saw the twist coming (feels like I just watched something that had a similar twist, and I read a book aged ago that had a similar one... The fuck) but I couldn't get over the whole name of the mother is the same just absolutely means he's the half brother. If I was the guy, I would've thought in my head that's a weird coincidence, but not jump to the conclusion because my mom and the monster's mom are the same, it HAS to be me. Not a common name, sure, but come on.

Very cool idea, red herrings were OK (though I still feel like showing the present to prove the time loop should have been "permissible" as proof to the wife). I didn't actually have a lot of problems figuring out what to do (as brutal as it was, I knew I had to hide in the closet before my wife saw me, and watch what happened, though it took forever to figure out how to attack the cop) but that adventure game logic...why wouldn't I use the phone to call 911 and give the cops a heads up some maniac was gonna barge in?
 

eek

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,277
Is the cop the dad? I don't get it. How come the second time you go back it's the cop and their voices are identical. What the actual fuck??
 

Japanmanx3

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,907
Atlanta, GA
I was so ready to play this since I'd legit been waiting for a ew years. But something told me to check this spoiler thread and it's fascinating how easily I've noped to never playing this smh lol.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,010
Man that twist and everything after. Jesus.

I would've liked this a lot more if they stopped things earlier, like the ending where the wife gives the watch herself as the cop looks into the nanny/brother. But nope, gotta go farther and have you be the brother.

There's so much stuff you can interact with in the apartment that seems to have no point. Why can you flush so many things down the toilet? Why can't you plot more stuff with the wife to mess with the cop, like bait him into the light willingly and have you and her talk to him? I kept trying to do stuff with the bathroom shower as a blind spot but you really can't do anything. There's a point where I wish this was played straight more as a general time loop game that had more variance and fun things to mess around with.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
There's so much stuff you can interact with in the apartment that seems to have no point. Why can you flush so many things down the toilet? Why can't you plot more stuff with the wife to mess with the cop, like bait him into the light willingly and have you and her talk to him? I kept trying to do stuff with the bathroom shower as a blind spot but you really can't do anything. There's a point where I wish this was played straight more as a general time loop game that had more variance and fun things to mess around with.

You can tell how this was a game that was built on the premise of an interactive time-loop with sandbox puzzle elements first, and then only actually building the story/puzzles after that.
 

Armoredgoomba

Member
Jun 17, 2018
1,093
I played it for a few loops but then gave up since I wasn't having any fun "figuring it out" and the super tiny apartment was distracting me. They didn't even have a TV?! The couch faces the kitchen table? What?

I then later tonight saw a twitch stream that revealed the thing about the wife actually killing her father and the cop needing money and whatever. And I was like "ah ok, good enough"

Now I come in here to find the game is actually a "guilt driven dream sequence about sorta-incest" huh ok.

Glad to have game pass for stuff like this to try with no investment.
 

nihilence

nøthing but silence
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,891
From 'quake area to big OH.
If I didn't look at all the pictures so I have to start all over? I saw the egg and the uroboros but not the eye for example.

That loop though when he was trying to remember the nanny name being a flower and you said the onesie was named after your mom.. Goodness grief.
 

Saturday

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,320
sweet fucking god that's a M Night Shyamalan twist

I hate that the twist, while 100% batshit crazy, makes you go "oh christ, I guess this *is* the only way it could have gone" when they bring up the brother, right? In a greek tragedy epic/play way you realize that there are three main characters in a convoluted plot, so inevitably the only way to apply further crazy swerves is for your character to be involved

I dunno. I liked some of it. The faux-ending where the Wife just randomly muses on secrets with you and leads you out of the apartment to tell you about her past. It's oddly endearing in a stupid, meandering casual way.
 
Sep 22, 2019
255
The game was great while it was fresh. After a while restarting the loop with no clue if I was missing an ending make it a tedious play. I got the "alone" ending and after that had to youtube the other endings because I didn't have the patience to keep restarting the game. There should had been a flowchart made available after getting one ending to give you a hint into what other routes were possible.

And I actually loved the hypnosis twist, when you restart the game you can hear the muffled voice of the father hypnotizing you and the paintings in the first hallway are a dead giveaway that it is actually all in the mind of the protagonist.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,553
The only way the story even makes sense to me is if everything that happens in the apartment, including the marriage, is all inside his head.
I agree that's the only way the story and the writing makes sense.

But that's also why the whole thing sucks because it's trying to leave everything up to your interpretation, but the only interpretation that fits the writing is the mind one because otherwise all of it is fucking terrible. The way everyone gets so pissed off and honestly psychotic about the idea of an illegitimate brother only works if the husband is imagining all this and is expressing his self-loathing. If it's an actual thing that's happening, holy shit that's so many red flags from people who cannot be real humans.

For a game in development for so many years, it really seems like they locked the story incredibly early and never thought about it again.
 

Fiddle

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,627
That loop though when he was trying to remember the nanny name being a flower and you said the onesie was named after your mom.. Goodness grief.
Easily the most poorly designed "puzzle" in the game. Having to do the ENTIRE loop again except this time you show him the baby clothes riiiight at the end in an extremely specific moment. Just the worst. I hated this.