TV tech talk: Why arent there tvs with display port and why did HDMI become standard instead of it?

nogoodnamesleft · Jan 4, 2021

Display port is royalty free and hdmi isnt. Display port is technically superior. Display port has a cute locking feature to the device. from what ive read after hdmi 1.4, they essentially process the signal the same way anyway (feel free to correct me!)

Was there a reason why hdmi was adopted? and yessssssssss i know displayport is "more of a monitor thing" my question is "why?" its superior in every way to hdmi so why isnt it "more of a tv thing" instead?

if we had display port 2.0 or even an older display port, most people wouldnt even need/want new tvs now, because older DPs support 4k/120 etc that you need hdmi 2.1 for which is just nowwwww rolling out basically!

Dolce · Jan 4, 2021

HDMI was first, I believe. That's pretty much the biggest reason.

gravitationsfeld · Jan 4, 2021

Everything is standardized to HDMI and it would be a royal pain to get everyone to agree to a new standard. That's your answer. DisplayPort is mainly a thing on PC because manufacturers really don't want to pay for the HDMI licensing fees.

OrangeNova · Jan 4, 2021

This comic explains it fairly well.

Standards

xkcd.com

Also HDMI came first, so we have that, it's why not every tv had S-Video or SCART during the transition from RGB > Composite > HDMI

nogoodnamesleft · Jan 4, 2021

Gravijah said:
HDMI was first, I believe. That's pretty much the biggest reason.

oh damn was it really that easy? it just came first?

gravitationsfeld said:
Everything is standardized to HDMI and it would be a royal pain to get everyone to agree to a new standard. That's your answer. DisplayPort is mainly a thing on PC because manufacturers really don't want to pay for the HDMI licensing fees.

would it be difficult for tvs to include at least one displayport? just as an option? kind of like monitors do i guess. youre right on standard thing i mean if hdmi came much earlier then moving to a new standard so "soon" wouldnt be easy

Ninjician- · Jan 4, 2021

Copyright protection. That's it. HDMI is a terrible design.

mute · Jan 4, 2021

I had a work laptop that just had a display port on it and it was the most annoying thing.

Alvis · Jan 4, 2021

Ninjician- said:
Copyright protection. That's it. HDMI is a terrible design.

But DP has HDCP too. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch Netflix on my PC.

HTupolev · Jan 4, 2021

Because HDMI actually existed when HDTVs were starting to become a thing.

Deleted member 39374 · Jan 4, 2021

HDMI carries audio and copyright protection, it's for home video devices and has been around since like 2005

DP is intended for computers and also a lot newer

nogoodnamesleft · Jan 4, 2021

Polymerization said:
HDMI carries audio and copyright protection, it's for home video devices and has been around since like 2005

DP is for computers, it doesn't carry audio IIRC, And it's a lot newer.

it definitely carries audio and it definitely carries copyright protection!

Deleted member 39374 · Jan 4, 2021

nogoodnamesleft said:
it definitely carries audio and it definitely carries copyright protection!

Yeah, edited my post after googling. lol

nogoodnamesleft · Jan 4, 2021

I didn't even think of "age of the tech" tbh. Good call.

found this

"DisplayPort debuted in 2006 as part of an effort to replace two older standards used primarily for computer displays: VGA (Video Graphics Array, an analog interface first introduced in 1987) and DVI (Digital Video Interface, introduced in 1999). DisplayPort is a royalty-free product, but that wasn't enough to overcome HDMI's four-year momentum. Computers, with their shorter technology cycles and often greater display needs, were another matter."

I kind of agree yeah 4 year head start. But damn we would be reaping benefits of it now if it did make the swap over! Or at least give us options ><

Dylan · Jan 4, 2021

There was a brief period when I had somehow convinced myself that DP was a proprietary Dell port because I had only seen it on Dell products. It made for a really embarrassing convo with an IT guy.

NekoFever · Jan 4, 2021

The first HDMI devices predate DisplayPort by ~5 years. That's enough time for it to have become the standard on several generations of AV equipment.

Mercifully they've avoided the downsides of most format wars because DisplayPort, HDMI and now USB-C are basically interchangeable with inexpensive adapters.

Sky87 · Jan 4, 2021

nogoodnamesleft said:
Display port is royalty free and hdmi isnt. Display port is technically superior. Display port has a cute locking feature to the device. from what ive read after hdmi 1.4, they essentially process the signal the same way anyway (feel free to correct me!)

Was there a reason why hdmi was adopted? and yessssssssss i know displayport is "more of a monitor thing" my question is "why?" its superior in every way to hdmi so why isnt it "more of a tv thing" instead?

if we had display port 2.0 or even an older display port, most people wouldnt even need/want new tvs now, because older DPs support 4k/120 etc that you need hdmi 2.1 for which is just nowwwww rolling out basically!

This shit has killed the port on my monitor i think. Didn't think of the possibility of it having a locking mechanism, so i think i've used too much pressure when i was going to disconnect it a few years back. Any slight movement near the connector and the screen will flicker as it loses/regains signal.

EvilBoris · Jan 4, 2021

1. HDMI came before DisplayPort both in concept and for actually physically showing up in displays.
By the time DP had launched in the first PC monitor there were already millions of HDMi only displays and the PS3.

2. HDMi was made by the Japanese TV manufacturers for Av use and VESA who created DisplayPort are an American entity.

HDMi works over significantly longer distances and from the start supported things like CEC and a standardised method of sending data about the source content. Display port was designed to replace vga/dvi and thus there was less consideration for made for audio and device control.

HDMi also had a more stringent set of supported resolutions/refreshrates/colour systems which all compliant devices needed to support- as it was a plug and Play solution for TVs and disc players

Deleted member 16908 · Jan 4, 2021

EvilBoris said:
1. HDMI came before DisplayPort both in concept and for actually physically showing up in displays.
By the time DP had launched in the first PC monitor there were already millions of HDMi only displays and the PS3.

2. HDMi was made by the Japanese TV manufacturers for Av use and VESA who created DisplayPort are an American entity.

HDMi works over significantly longer distances and from the start supported things like CEC and a standardised method of sending data about the source content. Display port was designed to replace vga/dvi and thus there was less consideration for made for audio and device control.

I thought digital signals like HDMI and DP worked the same regardless of distance.

Retrocide · Jan 4, 2021

The HDMI founders were Hitachi, Panasonic, Philips, Silicon Image, Sony, Thomson, RCA, and Toshiba, several of whom are both among the largest manufactures of televisions and the products you would connect on the other end of the HDMI cable (such as the Playstation, Blu Ray Players etc.)

MattB · Jan 4, 2021

Alvis said:
But DP has HDCP too. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch Netflix on my PC.

Doesnt netflix use something else for drm?

EvilBoris · Jan 4, 2021

Robinson said:
I thought digital signals like HDMI and DP worked the same regardless of distance.

The signal can degrade to a point where the error correction systems that they have no longer function and you will get visible artifacts.

You can get around this by using more expensive and higher quality cable materials.
Because DP supported higher bandwidth when it launched it 2008, certified cables were capped at a less than 6feet because of this.

This problem has crept up on HDMI also over time as the bandwidth required by 4K, HDR and now higher framerate support by hdmi 2.1 devices.
-Which is why there are certified cables which can handle to maximum bandwidth the system offers

EvilBoris · Jan 4, 2021

nogoodnamesleft said:
I kind of agree yeah 4 year head start. But damn we would be reaping benefits of it now if it did make the swap over! Or at least give us options ><

out of curiosity , what benefits?

Alvis · Jan 4, 2021

MattB said:
Doesnt netflix use something else for drm?

idk, but the point is that displayport totally supports HDCP

nogoodnamesleft · Jan 4, 2021

EvilBoris said:
out of curiosity , what benefits?

well, display port is now up to 2.0 is that right? that means that DP 1.4 would be in most tvs now (based on approx timeline of rollout of hdmi/dp updated tech) meaning that most tvs would have full access to the new console/gpu features now without needing a new tv-that being the main large benefit i think unless im wrong with the timeframes

VorpalNonsense · Jan 4, 2021

Give it time
HDMI beat it to the punch and made it so standard displayport will never get the support it deserved
But it looks like USB-C may soon take over everything, and it actually uses a form of displayport for video if I understand correctly
So in the end DP may win anyway, just not in the original form factor

GiantEnemyCrab · Jan 4, 2021

Sky87 said:
This shit has killed the port on my monitor i think. Didn't think of the possibility of it having a locking mechanism, so i think i've used too much pressure when i was going to disconnect it a few years back. Any slight movement near the connector and the screen will flicker as it loses/regains signal.

Yeah, I hate that shit because often the cable is in some weird angle/position and it's difficult to get the cable out. Ripped my skin off once when trying to remove a connector and the little metal nubs scratched over my finger.

EvilBoris · Jan 4, 2021

VorpalNonsense said:
Give it time
HDMI beat it to the punch and made it so standard displayport will never get the support it deserved
But it looks like USB-C may soon take over everything, and it actually uses a form of displayport for video if I understand correctly
So in the end DP may win anyway, just not in the original form factor

USB-C can send a DP signal, but it is not part of the spec.
And again that is one of the issues for DisplayPort on the whole , audio isn't actually a mandatory part of the spec. Lots of optional things.
We've seen this type of thing with HDMI 2.1 and USB 3.2. It's not a great situation for consumers

USB 4 supports DP 2.0 as standard, which is great news; but I would imagine that the cost of 4 will mean 3.2 will be used for years to come.

nogoodnamesleft said:
well, display port is now up to 2.0 is that right? that means that DP 1.4 would be in most tvs now (based on approx timeline of rollout of hdmi/dp updated tech) meaning that most tvs would have full access to the new console/gpu features now without needing a new tv-that being the main large benefit i think unless im wrong with the timeframes

What were we doing for the 4 years with the 80+ million HDMI devices that would have already existed come 2008?

That also includes things the other things that required HDMI features such as BluRay discs and video streaming services.

Also in this timeline we'd still be 5 years behind consumer uptake on DP, so you might have users who wouldn't have had a TV with DP launch when the PS4/Xbox came out , so would those consoles have had a different connector also? Or would DP only have shown up in a hardware revision a few years later too? :P
Does this mean that in 2020 we'd have still had people considering buying a new TV with a DP for the first time?

nogoodnamesleft · Jan 4, 2021

EvilBoris said:
USB-C can send a DP signal, but it is not part of the spec.
And again that is one of the issues for DisplayPort on the whole , audio isn't actually a mandatory part of the spec. Lots of optional things.
We've seen this type of thing with HDMI 2.1 and USB 3.1 . It's not a great situation for consumers

What were we doing for the 4 years with the 80+ million HDMI devices that would have already existed come 2008?

That also includes things the other things that required HDMI features such as BluRay discs and video streaming services.

Also in this timeline we'd still be 5 years behind consumer uptake on DP, so you might have users who wouldn't have had a TV with DP launch when the PS4/Xbox came out , so would those consoles have had a different connector also? Or would DP only have shown up in a hardware revision a few years later too? :P
Does this mean that in 2020 we'd have still had people considering buying a new TV with a DP for the first time?

everything you say i agree with. like i said before i respect your knowledge immensely.

however, what is the drawback then of including ONE display port on tvs as an option? is it just cost?

LOLDSFAN · Jan 4, 2021

nogoodnamesleft said:
Display port has a cute locking feature to the device.

True lol.

Easier than those annoying DVI/VGA jackscrews.

EvilBoris · Jan 4, 2021

nogoodnamesleft said:
everything you say i agree with. like i said before i respect your knowledge immensely.

however, what is the drawback then of including ONE display port on tvs as an option? is it just cost?

I presume it's the cost vs. the need from consumers.
I would guess that there is other electronics that form part of the overall signal pipeline that makes it a cost prohibitive option as there is perhaps nothing off the shelf that can be used. The Nvidia BFG displays are perhaps a good indication of this.

MattB · Jan 4, 2021

Alvis said:
idk, but the point is that displayport totally supports HDCP

I didn't know that. interesting!

gravitationsfeld · Jan 4, 2021

nogoodnamesleft said:
would it be difficult for tvs to include at least one displayport? just as an option? kind of like monitors do i guess.

No, but it's additional cost for very little gain.

Koukalaka · Jan 4, 2021

Interestingly, I've had a few work laptops in the past with DisplayPort, but not HDMI.

Diablos · Jan 4, 2021

Familiarity. It's basically on every device you can think of. Super easy to use, low in cost unless you get duped.

pirata · Jan 4, 2021

As someone who has a 4K/120hz monitor with DP2.0 but not the latest HDMI, the next-gen consoles would be a lot more appealing to me if they had DP outputs...but I know I'm very much in the minority in that.

Deleted member 27751 · Jan 4, 2021

I disagree in that manufacturers can't change the display connection standard over time, because it has been done before with RGB > coaxial > HDMI; Mini USB > Micro USB > USB C; and iPod 32 pin > iPhone Lightning pin > potentially USB C in the future (at least starting with charger end so far). To say companies can not just start adding DP connections into their 2021 TV ranges is highly oblivious to the fact that companies love new marketing slogans, and as such would jump at the chance to make it seem like their TV was the superior choice to consumers. Plus it would be a boon for data streaming as DP 2.0 can broadcast up to 80 Gbit/s while HDMI 2.1 can only do 48 Gbit/s, and VESA doesn't necessarily have a royalty fee for DP standards (though HDMI LLC claims companies "could" charge if they wanted to, which they won't and haven't) just a membership fee annually.

Vash63 · Jan 4, 2021

Retrocide said:
The HDMI founders were Hitachi, Panasonic, Philips, Silicon Image, Sony, Thomson, RCA, and Toshiba, several of whom are both among the largest manufactures of televisions and the products you would connect on the other end of the HDMI cable (such as the Playstation, Blu Ray Players etc.)

The real reason. The TV vendors are the HDMI founders. Those licensing fees go to them. They have every reason to want it to succeed because of the money they get from every end-user device that plugs into the TV needing to be pay them a royalty.

This is also why they don't have any reason to want to add DisplayPort even as a single port option - it would give other devices a cheaper option for consumers that bypasses their royalty.

laxu · Jan 4, 2021

There isn't much call for DP on TVs when most GPUs have a HDMI connection anyway. As HDMI 2.1 becomes more standard on more GPUs it will be a better choice than DP 1.4 due to its higher bandwidth. Until DP 2.0 comes available and the cycle repeats.

Mindwipe · Jan 4, 2021

MattB said:
Doesnt netflix use something else for drm?

HDCP isn't really a DRM system. It's an output control that a DRM system tells the device to apply.

Netflix uses several different DRM systems depending on the device (for the most part Apple Fairplay, Google Widevine or Microsoft's PlayReady). But they all tell the device to apply HDCP on any outputs (at least usually, and for any higher definitions).

Replicant · Jan 4, 2021

VorpalNonsense said:
Give it time
HDMI beat it to the punch and made it so standard displayport will never get the support it deserved
But it looks like USB-C may soon take over everything, and it actually uses a form of displayport for video if I understand correctly
So in the end DP may win anyway, just not in the original form factor

USB-C is hot trash. Ports are way too fragile

Afrikan · Jan 4, 2021

For the longest time, I thought Display Port only transmitted Video..and no sound. Like DVI connections used to. 🙃

Vash63 · Jan 10, 2021

Afrikan said:
For the longest time, I thought Display Port only transmitted Video..and no sound. Like DVI connections used to. 🙃

DVI also could transfer audio.

Teenage Fansub · Jan 10, 2021

We should be using SDI!

Jonnax · Jan 10, 2021

Consider how many TVs are sold. And what percentage of people would use a displayport connection.

Would the average user want 1 more hdmi port or a Display port?

And people are buying the LG CX 48" to use as a display for their PCs.
And they can just connect it to the hdmi on their GPU, because GPUs have it.

TV tech talk: Why arent there tvs with display port and why did HDMI become standard instead of it?

▲ Legend ▲

Saw the truth behind the copied door

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest

Deleted member 16908

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest

Saw the truth behind the copied door

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest

has a title.

User-requested account closure

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt