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metsallica

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,659
Controversial statement time!

Hey you, reading this post? Dave is better than any show you're currently watching.

The season 2 finale was a masterpiece. Hilarious, heartfelt, thematically appropriate, it built on so much that had come before in a way few shows can ever accomplish. If you're not watching the show please correct that, as you'll find few better.
 

TheNatureBoy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
10,771
Controversial statement time!

Hey you, reading this post? Dave is better than any show you're currently watching.

The season 2 finale was a masterpiece. Hilarious, heartfelt, thematically appropriate, it built on so much that had come before in a way few shows can ever accomplish. If you're not watching the show please correct that, as you'll find few better.

Yeah, that final moment was really moving in a lot of ways. The whole season in general was tied together really well with Dave realizing how self-centered he can be at times and how he should do a better job in valuing the people who really ride for him.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
Echoing that the Dave finale was phenomenal. People were shitting on the season but it basically played out like the first season... the final two episodes were pure fire that put the ones that came before it in a much better light. The reveal that the title of the show also referred to GaTa and that it's basically become a love letter to him is so touching. The main problem is the show is full of great songs that aren't getting official releases.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
Controversial statement time!

Hey you, reading this post? Dave is better than any show you're currently watching.

The season 2 finale was a masterpiece. Hilarious, heartfelt, thematically appropriate, it built on so much that had come before in a way few shows can ever accomplish. If you're not watching the show please correct that, as you'll find few better.

What is this show about?
 

metsallica

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,659
What is this show about?
It's a dramatized retelling of rapper Dave Burd's story. You may know him better by his stage name Lil Dicky, or you may not know him at all. I had never heard of him prior to watching the show. The finale we've been talking about was directed by Alma Ha'rel; you might know her as the director of the wonderful movie Honey Boy. That movie may give you a sense of the tone of Dave. Dave is filled with a ton of puerile humor, but is deeply human, modern, shockingly relevant, and complex. It constantly hops genres and goes places you would never think it would (or could) given the surface humor. It deals with mental health in ways that really blew a lot of people away, to not spoil too much and hit the tip of the iceberg. You will meet and fall in love with GaTa, and then be blown away by the fact that he's Dave's real-life friend (and touring hype man!) and not an actor. To say nothing of the rest of the incredible supporting cast.

I could keep going and going, and am happy to answer any other questions you might have, but hopefully that gives you a sense. Both seasons are streaming on Hulu.
 

metsallica

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,659
The ending of the finale is really perfect and I'm so upset we don't have releases of his song about Ally and the last one.
He does talk a lot about his music in a couple post-finale interviews. He has basically been pulling 20 hour days for 2 years straight getting both seasons out so album work has gone out the window. Now that he finally has a break between seasons, he's going to shift to music. That mostly entails working on his sophomore album, but maybe it'll mean polishing up some stuff for a TV soundtrack release too.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
It's a dramatized retelling of rapper Dave Burd's story. You may know him better by his stage name Lil Dicky, or you may not know him at all. I had never heard of him prior to watching the show. The finale we've been talking about was directed by Alma Ha'rel; you might know her as the director of the wonderful movie Honey Boy. That movie may give you a sense of the tone of Dave. Dave is filled with a ton of puerile humor, but is deeply human, modern, shockingly relevant, and complex. It constantly hops genres and goes places you would never think it would (or could) given the surface humor. It deals with mental health in ways that really blew a lot of people away, to not spoil to much and hit the tip of the iceberg. You will meet and fall in love with GaTa, and then be blown away by the fact that he' s Dave's real-life friend (and touring hype man!) and not an actor. To say nothing of the rest of the incredible supporting cast.

I could keep going and going, and am happy to answer any other questions you might have, but hopefully that gives you a sense. Both seasons are streaming on Hulu.

I might give it a shot!
 

metsallica

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,659
I might give it a shot!
It would be awesome if you did, and I hope you report back if so. As someone who has consumed literally thousands of hours of TV and movies during the pandemic (including all of the breakout hits like Ted Lasso), Dave was BY FAR my favorite thing I watched. I have gotten around a dozen people to check it out, and they've all raved about it. I should add, it was co-created by Jeff Schaffer who came up through Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm, so the comedy pedigree is strong.
 

52club

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,499
If cringe comedy is your thing Dave (season 1) is for you, safe assumption that this season is more of the same?
 

metsallica

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,659
Yeah, that final moment was really moving in a lot of ways. The whole season in general was tied together really well with Dave realizing how self-centered he can be at times and how he should do a better job in valuing the people who really ride for him.

Echoing that the Dave finale was phenomenal. People were shitting on the season but it basically played out like the first season... the final two episodes were pure fire that put the ones that came before it in a much better light. The reveal that the title of the show also referred to GaTa and that it's basically become a love letter to him is so touching. The main problem is the show is full of great songs that aren't getting official releases.
It was beautiful. The double-meaning of the title was just a great "duh" moment! Not invented for the show, btw, that is literally what his family calls him.
 

metsallica

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,659
If cringe comedy is your thing Dave (season 1) is for you, safe assumption that this season is more of the same?
This is the thing that makes me weary when talking about the show. There is cringe comedy (as I mentioned above, puerile humor). But it's so much more than that. So, so much more. It can be a hard sell because of that, but I think it would be doing a disservice to the show and the character if it wasn't like that. It reminds me a bit of being a kid and trying to introduce people to an anime I loved. I can't stand fanservice, especially when it comes out of nowhere, and you can talk a show or movie up to someone until you're blue in the face... The second the camera does an awkward rear/underwear shot or lingers on a chest in a show that otherwise has none of that you know you've instantly lost your unaccustomed audience. Honestly some shows and movies would lose me too with that incongruous stuff.

The gross-out stuff is inherent to Dave, it works contextually, and it makes sense. It would be a lesser show without it, but I get that it's a stumbling block for some. I would say that Season 2 dials that stuff back for the most part (there are exceptions) and is much more experimental than the first. It's broader and takes bigger swings, and I think it's almost always successful.
 

Schlep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,771
A bit more than I thought there'd be, but not too bad. I'll probably wait for See to finish before subbing/watching.

Obama: In Pursuit of a More Perfect Union - HBO - 9/8c
What If...? - Disney+
Titans - HBO MAX
Brand New Cherry Flavor - Netflix
American Horror Story - FX - 10/9c
See - Apple TV+
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
Slasher Flesh and Blood. How that shit made it on tv I'll never know. A full on screen gutting, limbs being torn off, acid injected into ivs...
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
I'm three episodes in Brand New Cherry Flavor, and wow!! Really, you shouldn't be sleeping on this show...

After half the first episode I was totally engaged, and by the end I was screaming at my TV screen. And right now after the third episode I just can't stop watching. I's amazing.

Keep in mind that it really is a (soft) horror show, though. So YMMV, but I think it's incredible.

And kudos to Netflix for all they are doing for the horror genre. With all the support they're giving to Mike Flanagan's work, and also with gems like the Leigh Janiak's Fear Street trilogy, their horror output is nothing short of amazing right now.


Edit:
Watched episode 4, and we're now in Cronenberg-like body horror territory. I love it!
 
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RoninRay

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,590
I'm three episodes in Brand New Cherry Flavor, and wow!! Really, you shouldn't be sleeping on this show...

After half the first episode I was totally engaged, and by the end I was screaming at my TV screen. And right now after the third episode I just can't stop watching. I's amazing.

Keep in mind that it really is a (soft) horror show, though. So YMMV, but I think it's incredible.

And kudos to Netflix for all they are doing for the horror genre. With all the support they're giving to Mike Flanagan's work, and also with gems like the Leigh Janiak's Fear Street trilogy, their horror output is nothing short of amazing right now.


Edit:
Watched episode 4, and we're now in Cronenberg-like body horror territory. I love it!

Yo that fucking hotel scene wtf!!!!!
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
Yo that fucking hotel scene wtf!!!!!

lol!! I know, right?! I love it!

I just finished episode 6. I think it was my favorite so far. And that soundtrack… Tomorrow, Wendy by Concrete Blonde brought me back straight to my teenage years.

And after having seen more, I kind of take it back; this show isn't "soft" horror. It's full-blown horror and it's amazing!
 

Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,455
Brand New Cherry Flavor was too good. Like one of the best times I've had watching TV in the last decade.

But now I'm upset this won't likely get a season 2. 😭 😤 😭 😭
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
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THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,833
Dr. Death was really good. Man, I still don't what to make of Duntsch? What a bat shit human being.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
So I finished Brand New Cherry Flavor. I binged the whole thing, I just couldn't stop watching, lol!

This show really is something. It definitely is a ride... I don't want to oversell it because I can very much imagine this kind of thing not being everybody's cup of tea – it's horror after all – but I really loved it!

I was expecting something weird from the creators of the great Channel Zero, but I was still unprepared for Brand New Cherry Flavor. It's wild!! And it has this quality I like where the world is definitely grounded in realism, but everything in it is off just a little bit, just enough to permeate everything with a surrealist, creepy, and uncomfortable tone. The world and the story have a way to absorb you in its madness... It's so strange, but so hypnotizing.

I found the story to be completely unpredictable too – especially with all the weird and creepy metaphors – which makes it a very unique and memorable experience. And in all of its madness, I would say the story ends up being oddly satisfying. Everything is so strange, but not random. Everything has a place, and they aren't throwing metaphors, shocking imagery and kittens at you randomly. It's mysterious, but everything ends up having a purpose. They aren't holding your hand through the process, though. So I can imagine this show becoming even better after a rewatch.

Highly recommended, especially if you like dark and surreal horror mysteries.
 
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Nabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,421
Just finished Modern Love Season 2 last night. I was surprised there were only 8 episodes. Misremembered the first season as being 10. Anyway, it was a really compelling and excellent season. It didn't go to quite as many strange places narratively as Season 1, but there were only 2 episodes that didn't resonate for me and the rest were mostly really great. The Night Girl/Day Boy episode was tops for me. So many great performances throughout the season though.
 

TheNatureBoy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
10,771
I'm now caught up with Motherland Fort Salem. S2 has definitely been a step up from S1 for me. I like all of the character arcs for the main 3 a lot better than what they did during the first season. Seems like they cut down on the orange filter they had during S1 as well. Some surprisingly emotional moments, that has me hoping the show will return for S3.
 

G_Shumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,123
Cleveland, OH
Wow! That White Lotus ending was so good! It was a very satisfying way to end the season.

While there weren't really any surprising twists or anything, it just all felt so complete.
 

PoeticProse22

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
Wow! That White Lotus ending was so good! It was a very satisfying way to end the season.

While there weren't really any surprising twists or anything, it just all felt so complete.

Wholeheartedly agree! A sublime ending to one of my favorite shows in years. A second season will be worth it alone for the return of that mesmerizing score.
 

Nabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,421
Head's up to White Lotus fans to check out previous Mike White works: Enlightened, Beatriz at Dinner, School of Rock, Year of the Dog, and Brad's Status. Especially Enlightened but these are all worthwhile.

Excited to watch the finale tomorrow.
 
Oct 27, 2017
146
Sorry, but The White Lotus' finale (and basically the entire show) left me feeling really frustrated.

]I thought at its core it was going to be a show about the vulnerable and exploited people who have to serve rich, self-involved assholes. I thought the rookie resort worker in the first episode was going to be our Peggy Olsen, and we'd see the whole resort through her fresh eyes. But nope, she's pregnant, desperate for a job, and is shuffled offscreen after the first episode. Then another native islander--Kai--is exploited by a rich tourist (albeit with somewhat good intentions?), (assumedly) arrested and dispensed offscreen. THEN, we see Belinda--arguably the most empathetic character on the show--get more or less discarded by Jennifer Coolidge's character. The final shot of her smiling and waving to another group of tourists is BRUTAL.

And yet! These aren't the characters the show chooses to focus on. Are we really meant to be happy for the rich CEO and her husband making up after they spent the entire show basically shrugging whenever anybody called them out for being privileged? Are we supposed to be happy for Jennifer Coolidge when she discards Belinda for a new love interest? The show feels like it wants to critique all its characters but also show their humanity, and while I like that in concept, the fact that the final shot is a white kid who's replaced a native islander on a big canoe is so unnerving. Is that a celebration? If the show's about how white people and colonizers exploit the island and move on without a second thought towards the destruction they've left behind, it sure didn't feel like that came across in the finale.

And don't get me started on the newlyweds reconciling in the end--while I liked Belinda's brutal indifference to the wife's impromptu therapy session, we don't see how or why she came to the conclusion that she should stay with her awful husband. Is that deliberate? Is it meant to show how people will take the easy way out for comfort or safety?

There was a lot I liked about the premise, the cast and performances were excellent, and the show looked gorgeous, but I don't understand where the show's true sympathy lies or whose story this was really supposed to be about. [/SPOILER
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
Finally up to date with The White Lotus and I could watch the finale tonight. I really loved it!

Sorry, but The White Lotus' finale (and basically the entire show) left me feeling really frustrated.

]I thought at its core it was going to be a show about the vulnerable and exploited people who have to serve rich, self-involved assholes. I thought the rookie resort worker in the first episode was going to be our Peggy Olsen, and we'd see the whole resort through her fresh eyes. But nope, she's pregnant, desperate for a job, and is shuffled offscreen after the first episode. Then another native islander--Kai--is exploited by a rich tourist (albeit with somewhat good intentions?), (assumedly) arrested and dispensed offscreen. THEN, we see Belinda--arguably the most empathetic character on the show--get more or less discarded by Jennifer Coolidge's character. The final shot of her smiling and waving to another group of tourists is BRUTAL.

And yet! These aren't the characters the show chooses to focus on. Are we really meant to be happy for the rich CEO and her husband making up after they spent the entire show basically shrugging whenever anybody called them out for being privileged? Are we supposed to be happy for Jennifer Coolidge when she discards Belinda for a new love interest? The show feels like it wants to critique all its characters but also show their humanity, and while I like that in concept, the fact that the final shot is a white kid who's replaced a native islander on a big canoe is so unnerving. Is that a celebration? If the show's about how white people and colonizers exploit the island and move on without a second thought towards the destruction they've left behind, it sure didn't feel like that came across in the finale.

And don't get me started on the newlyweds reconciling in the end--while I liked Belinda's brutal indifference to the wife's impromptu therapy session, we don't see how or why she came to the conclusion that she should stay with her awful husband. Is that deliberate? Is it meant to show how people will take the easy way out for comfort or safety?

There was a lot I liked about the premise, the cast and performances were excellent, and the show looked gorgeous, but I don't understand where the show's true sympathy lies or whose story this was really supposed to be about. [/SPOILER

I think you're looking at this kind of narrative the wrong way. This type of character and relationship study isn't necessarily meant to convey a clear moral and hold people by the hand to tell them what to think. What the show wants to do is put some interesting characters together, create conflicts, and let them interact with each other in "realistic" ways.

According to what you said in the spoiler section, the show made you strongly react to many of the situations in it. That's basically what it wants.

To answer some of your questions:

– "Are we really meant to be happy for the rich CEO and her husband making up after they spent the entire show basically shrugging whenever anybody called them out for being privileged? Are we supposed to be happy for Jennifer Coolidge when she discards Belinda for a new love interest? The show feels like it wants to critique all its characters but also show their humanity, and while I like that in concept, the fact that the final shot is a white kid who's replaced a native islander on a big canoe is so unnerving. Is that a celebration?"

I think that really is up to you. Are you feeling happy for them? Why? And do you think this final shot is a celebration? Those are all questions this kind of narrative will be asking without giving any clear answers. And it's on purpose.

And the show did raise many questions and presented a lot of social issues. The characters and situations were clearly created with that in mind. Like you mentioned yourself, there's the whole exploitation angles, for example. But this kind of narrative will not clearly tell you what to think and how to feel about it. You'll see characters interact with each others, and then it's up to you to decide what you think about the outcome.


– "There was a lot I liked about the premise, the cast and performances were excellent, and the show looked gorgeous, but I don't understand where the show's true sympathy lies or whose story this was really supposed to be about."

This was the story of all of these characters together during those six days in more or less equal measure. It wasn't the story of specific characters more than others. And again, I really don't feel the show is passing judgement on anything specifically. It lets the audience make their own judgment.


– "And don't get me started on the newlyweds reconciling in the end--while I liked Belinda's brutal indifference to the wife's impromptu therapy session, we don't see how or why she came to the conclusion that she should stay with her awful husband. Is that deliberate? Is it meant to show how people will take the easy way out for comfort or safety?"

My take is that it's not really a reconciliation... it's really is more a capitulation from Rachel. And to me it's heartbreaking, because her desperate situation made her choose comfort over happiness. And no matter what she said at the end, she will not be happy. Nothing good can happen to her in this relationship. And it played out in a kind of sadly realistic way...
 
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Oct 27, 2017
146
Finally up to date with The White Lotus and I could watch the finale tonight. I really loved it!



I think you're looking at this kind of narrative the wrong way. This type of character and relationship study isn't necessarily meant to convey a clear moral and hold people by the hand to tell them what to think. What the show wants to do is put some interesting characters together, create conflicts, and let them interact with each other in "realistic" ways.

According to what you said in the spoiler section, the show made you strongly react to many of the situations in it. That's basically what it wants.

To answer some of your questions:

– "Are we really meant to be happy for the rich CEO and her husband making up after they spent the entire show basically shrugging whenever anybody called them out for being privileged? Are we supposed to be happy for Jennifer Coolidge when she discards Belinda for a new love interest? The show feels like it wants to critique all its characters but also show their humanity, and while I like that in concept, the fact that the final shot is a white kid who's replaced a native islander on a big canoe is so unnerving. Is that a celebration?"

I think that really is up to you. Are you feeling happy for them? Why? And do you think this final shot is a celebration? Those are all questions this kind of narrative will be asking without giving any clear answers. And it's on purpose.

And the show did raise many questions and presented a lot of social issues. The characters and situations were clearly created with that in mind. Like you mentioned yourself, there's the whole exploitation angles, for example. But this kind of narrative will not clearly tell you what to think and how to feel about it. You'll see characters interact with each others, and then it's up to you to decide what you think about the outcome.


– "There was a lot I liked about the premise, the cast and performances were excellent, and the show looked gorgeous, but I don't understand where the show's true sympathy lies or whose story this was really supposed to be about."

This was the story of all of these characters together during those six days in more or less equal measure. It wasn't the story of specific characters more than others. And again, I really don't feel the show is passing judgement on anything specifically. It lets the audience make their own judgment.


– "And don't get me started on the newlyweds reconciling in the end--while I liked Belinda's brutal indifference to the wife's impromptu therapy session, we don't see how or why she came to the conclusion that she should stay with her awful husband. Is that deliberate? Is it meant to show how people will take the easy way out for comfort or safety?"

My take is that it's not really a reconciliation... it's really is more a capitulation from Rachel. And to me it's heartbreaking, because her desperate situation made her choose comfort over happiness. And no matter what she says at the end, she will not be happy. Nothing good can happen to her in this relationship. And it played out in a kind of sadly realistic way...

I appreciate this well-articulated response and I think you're right. I'm frustrated with the outcome, and that's intentional on the creator's part. I can't even really articulate what I wanted to happen--I wrote my post immediately after watching the finale and now that I've sat with it a bit, I can at least acknowledge the entire season was totally consistent. The fact that I'm frustrated means I got invested in the characters and the story, so that's something.

It's funny, I absolutely love Succession and that's a show with a cast filled with even MORE awful people, but the tone is a lot more blatantly cynical. I think the gentler, assholes-in-paradise setup had me expecting a more optimistic or "happy" ending, but the very first scene of the show clearly establishes that isn't the story being told here. I haven't had this kind of reaction to a show in a while, and I'm grateful for that. Very curious to see how they change things up with a second season--I'd love a change of locale and/or more of a focus on the staff over the guests.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
I'm now caught up with Motherland Fort Salem. S2 has definitely been a step up from S1 for me. I like all of the character arcs for the main 3 a lot better than what they did during the first season. Seems like they cut down on the orange filter they had during S1 as well. Some surprisingly emotional moments, that has me hoping the show will return for S3.

I can't wait to see where the show is heading with the last few episodes left in season 2. It seems to be building up to a great finale. I sure hope it will get renewed for a third season...
 

gforguava

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,694
The White Lotus

Excellent finale. The only misstep I felt was that they made Rachel too cleared-headed and cognizant of why she was unhappy so her staying with Shane felt just a step too far(even if it was thematically sound).

That minor point aside, just a brilliant show. The way it uses the idea of a vacation and resort as a 'life changing experience' that is almost always anything but, that at the end of it all everything goes back to the unhappiness of before. And I love how it tackles the idea(without ever really focusing on it) that people travel all over to these 'exotic' places just to hermetically seal themselves inside so they don't have to deal with anything 'exotic'. Only Quinn and Tanya have a real change, maybe because their ages allow them to be open to said change, but I was so happy when they intersected on the beach and Quinn running away was the best ending possible.

Not sure how you can do a season 2 that can live up to this but I'll be there to give it a shot.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I'm now caught up with Motherland Fort Salem. S2 has definitely been a step up from S1 for me. I like all of the character arcs for the main 3 a lot better than what they did during the first season. Seems like they cut down on the orange filter they had during S1 as well. Some surprisingly emotional moments, that has me hoping the show will return for S3.
All I know is I finished the last episode and

they got me, they fooled me and got me hyped

but now I refuse to watch anymore until it's done. I'm just not built for this 7 day wait anymore. I wanted to go into the next episode immediately. Totally agree with what you said about season 2. Much better.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
All I know is I finished the last episode and

they got me, they fooled me and got me hyped

but now I refuse to watch anymore until it's done. I'm just not built for this 7 day wait anymore. I wanted to go into the next episode immediately. Totally agree with what you said about season 2. Much better.

I think the writing on this show is very, very good.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,096
The White Lotus was mid as fuck. Didnt really do much for me besides being occasionally chuckle worthy I guess. Not sure there was an actual point to any of it.
 

freetacos

Member
Oct 30, 2017
13,164
Bay Area, CA
Sorry, but The White Lotus' finale (and basically the entire show) left me feeling really frustrated.

I thought at its core it was going to be a show about the vulnerable and exploited people who have to serve rich, self-involved assholes.

Yes, it was exactly that, and it did a wonderful job of conveying it. Just because everyone didn't get their commeuppance doesn't meant that wasn't one of the main threads throughout the show.