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Oct 28, 2017
13,691
How does the picture quality and performance of the top of the line LG Nanocell TVs (SM 9000 and 9500) stack up with a Samsung Q70? I want to go for a bedroom tv with blackout curtains.
Nanocell is IPS so black levels will be much worse but just as bright, if not brighter and better viewing angles. Samsung Q70 is ok ... Sony 900f or 900g is better.

Only Samsung TV I'd buy us a Q80 or Q90r but if you care about picture accuracy I'd go with Sony.
 

shancake

Managing Editor ‑ Press Start
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
485
This is going to sound like a really dumb question, but we leave our TV on for our dogs during the day. Would OLED be a bad idea if channel logos are on the screen all day?
 

shancake

Managing Editor ‑ Press Start
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
485
Second question: The Samsung Q90r doesn't have 2.1, but if my research serves me correctly, all the features that you'd care about for games are already there (just not with the 2.1 terminology).
 

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,798
Second question: The Samsung Q90r doesn't have 2.1, but if my research serves me correctly, all the features that you'd care about for games are already there (just not with the 2.1 terminology).
It has VRR support, but at 4K resolution it's limited to 48-60Hz. Not game specific, but it's missing eARC.
 

Hawk269

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,043
Just noticed that the LG77C9 is $4,949.99 USD at Costco.

What did the LG77C9 launch at? That seems like a solid price.
It launched at $6,999.99. It went down to about 6499.99 a few months later on sale. That price is really good. Just last week it was $5499.99 at Costco. The 65" was just dropped to $2099.99 at Costco.
 

shancake

Managing Editor ‑ Press Start
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
485

Hawk269

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,043
It launched at $6,999.99. It went down to about 6499.99 a few months later on sale. That price is really good. Just last week it was $5499.99 at Costco. The 65" was just dropped to $2099.99 at Costco.
Sorry to quote myself, but figured it would be beneficial.

Best Buy has also lowered or put on sale the 65" C9 and the 77" C9. The 65" went to $2099.99 on Sale which is $500.00 lower than it was and the 77" went to $4999.99. I just got back from getting a price match on my C9 that I bought from BB on Friday. Tried to convince the wife to just bump up to the 77" but yeah she put a firm NO on that idea! lol
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
MDpWGHZ.jpg
I just bought a dirt cheap 13.3 inch 4k hdr portable monitor from Aliexpress and it's pretty amazing.

Supports variable refresh rate too.

This isn't even the cheapest one.

It also has usbc hdmi and mini display port. I'm using it for games and travel as a second monitor as well as a screen for my recumbent exercise bike — and so far my mind is blown. It even comes with cables and a little stand.



 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,683
MDpWGHZ.jpg
I just bought a dirt cheap 13.3 inch 4k hdr portable monitor from Aliexpress and it's pretty amazing.

Supports variable refresh rate too.

This isn't even the cheapest one.

It also has usbc hdmi and mini display port. I'm using it for games and travel as a second monitor as well as a screen for my recumbent exercise bike — and so far my mind is blown. It even comes with cables and a little stand.




That's crazy reasonable
 

PhoenixDawn

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,615
Good to see the LG OLED deals did return. Definitely considering jumping on a C9 soon (maybe). One last question that's come up in my researching stuff is the fact that it seems like the C9 doesn't have 120Hz BFI whereas the new ones appear to. It seems like they had announced it for the C9 but pulled it last minute before release, but is something like that a big enough deal maker that it would be worth waiting for the new models to go on discount for?

I'm not one to play the long waiting game for features and features which never stop coming, but if it truly is something that seems like it would help judder a lot more than whatever people experience on the c9/older ones with only 60Hz BFI then I'd definitely be willing to stick with my old TV for another year..

Edit: I feel like I went down a rabbit hole of people talking about things I don't even understand (and I feel like half the discussions I read on it are people that also don't understand). So it'd be good to get set straight. But honestly I'm leaning towards just getting the C9 and being happy because it looks amazing every time I've walked past it in stores.
 
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Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,829
Does anyone have a recommendation for a decent small TV, preferably around 24" in size, but no bigger than 32"? Definitely would prefer less than 32" though. One kicker is it needs to support HDR but doesn't need to have any ability to display it. It just needs to be able to tone map it down to SDR reasonably. I'm pretty sure what I want doesn't exist, but I thought I'd ask. I know there's a Samsung 32" set for $499, but was hoping to see other options. I know HDR on small sets are almost non existent. I figure if it exists, someone here might know of one.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,689
MDpWGHZ.jpg
I just bought a dirt cheap 13.3 inch 4k hdr portable monitor from Aliexpress and it's pretty amazing.

Supports variable refresh rate too.

This isn't even the cheapest one.

It also has usbc hdmi and mini display port. I'm using it for games and travel as a second monitor as well as a screen for my recumbent exercise bike — and so far my mind is blown. It even comes with cables and a little stand.



Hmmm, I'm a bit dubious. Does it have something like "dotty" or checkerboard pattern when displaying things? Also, is 4k even noticeable at that size?
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Hmmm, I a bit dubious. Does it have something like "dotty" or checkerboard pattern when displaying things?

Nope. This is off screen phone camera shot but it has good solid image veracity.

7y7zbnl.jpg

As for visibility of 4k at this size it's not meaningful for general gaming but I'm testing frame rates and hdr at native 4k so in a sense it's irrelevant to me whether it is visible or not for most games but as a pc monitor it makes a huge difference in how much usable screen real estate is available and it is very visible- at the mercy of your eyesight for readability of course.
 
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DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
MDpWGHZ.jpg
I just bought a dirt cheap 13.3 inch 4k hdr portable monitor from Aliexpress and it's pretty amazing.

Supports variable refresh rate too.

This isn't even the cheapest one.

It also has usbc hdmi and mini display port. I'm using it for games and travel as a second monitor as well as a screen for my recumbent exercise bike — and so far my mind is blown. It even comes with cables and a little stand.




that is basically a dell xps 13 panel or similar ultrabook repackaged. I am guessing dell xps 13 because of bezel less design. It should be really good. 1800:1 contrast suggest it is an IGZO based IPS panel as well which is standard on mobile devices but not common with PC monitors. (It is better than what you find in typical PC monitors that are still a-Si based, it uses less power, it is more responsive and because it has better transparency, it can get brighter with less backlight and give you better contrast.) Should be a good buy. It is probably fake HDR though as there is no local dimming.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
that is basically a dell xps 13 panel or similar ultrabook repackaged. I am guessing dell xps 13 because of bezel less design. It should be really good. 1800:1 contrast suggest it is an IGZO based IPS panel as well which is standard on mobile devices but not common with PC monitors. (It is better than what you find in typical PC monitors that are still a-Si based, it uses less power, it is more responsive and because it has better transparency, it can get brighter with less backlight and give you better contrast.) Should be a good buy. It is probably fake HDR though as there is no local dimming.

maybe but it sends hdr10 handshake data to Xbox
 

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,224
MDpWGHZ.jpg
I just bought a dirt cheap 13.3 inch 4k hdr portable monitor from Aliexpress and it's pretty amazing.

Supports variable refresh rate too.

This isn't even the cheapest one.

It also has usbc hdmi and mini display port. I'm using it for games and travel as a second monitor as well as a screen for my recumbent exercise bike — and so far my mind is blown. It even comes with cables and a little stand.



How much was this thing? The link says it's not available anymore.
 

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,798
Does anyone have a recommendation for a decent small TV, preferably around 24" in size, but no bigger than 32"? Definitely would prefer less than 32" though. One kicker is it needs to support HDR but doesn't need to have any ability to display it. It just needs to be able to tone map it down to SDR reasonably. I'm pretty sure what I want doesn't exist, but I thought I'd ask. I know there's a Samsung 32" set for $499, but was hoping to see other options. I know HDR on small sets are almost non existent. I figure if it exists, someone here might know of one.
Probably would have more luck looking at monitors and using them as a TV, if possible.
Like this LG, for example:
Obvious downsides to going that route are no OTA tuner, and fewer inputs.

Samsung's Q50 is the only 4K TV I know that's 32" or less. I don't know of any 1080p TVs that support HDR, but I seem to recall Sony announcing one at some point.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
How much was this thing? The link says it's not available anymore.

Oh weird was available this afternoon for me - I paid $150 with a coupon and free shipping. Comes with ac (usbc) an hdmi cable, a USB c cable for video and a weird little cheap stand.

Edit. Sold out!

This one looks more or less identical tho - haven't checked all the details against mine but this says available for me:


BTW my system detected the variable refresh rate but you do have an option to set it to on or off in the fiddly wee menu
 
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Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,829
Probably would have more luck looking at monitors and using them as a TV, if possible.
Like this LG, for example:
Obvious downsides to going that route are no OTA tuner, and fewer inputs.

Samsung's Q50 is the only 4K TV I know that's 32" or less. I don't know of any 1080p TVs that support HDR, but I seem to recall Sony announcing one at some point.

The thought had crossed my mind but then I'd have to worry about the issue of sound. I was trying to to have to deal with an external sound solution, and I figure the selection of monitors with built in speakers was probably going to be limited. Even then I wonder how bad it would be too which would limit the selection even further; not that I expect great audio or anything from a TV of that size. I don't mind the lack of OTA tuner and fewer inputs since it just needs one for the media box though.

I guess I could explore monitors a bit though but I'm guessing my options are probably pretty limited. I saw the Samsung in my initial search but was hoping to go something smaller than 32" since it's just for a kid's bedroom TV and I didn't want it to take up so much room. Really wish it was easier to tone map HDR to SDR....
 

Mike Works

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,775
So I bought a C9 three weeks ago, and I've now noticed (after ~125 hours of running it) that the middle third of the TV (vertically) is brighter than the rest. It's very weird, I can't tell if it's banding or something else. The typical banding you see at grey 5-15% is almost non-existent, it's awesome... but the middle third of the screen when on a generally flat colored screen (the blue-grey menus of my hockey videogame for instance) is definitely a little lighter.

Is this a common issue? I haven't run a manual refresh yet, debating if that'd be the right move here. TV's still within the return period if that's what needs to happen, but I sure hope not.
 

Ninjician-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
443
So I bought a C9 three weeks ago, and I've now noticed (after ~125 hours of running it) that the middle third of the TV (vertically) is brighter than the rest. It's very weird, I can't tell if it's banding or something else. The typical banding you see at grey 5-15% is almost non-existent, it's awesome... but the middle third of the screen when on a generally flat colored screen (the blue-grey menus of my hockey videogame for instance) is definitely a little lighter.

Is this a common issue? I haven't run a manual refresh yet, debating if that'd be the right move here. TV's still within the return period if that's what needs to happen, but I sure hope not.

Sounds like vignetting. I don't think a pixel refresh will help but it's not entirely uncommon.

I notice it most with Mario Maker with a full Yellow screen.
 

RedlineRonin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,620
Minneapolis
So I bought a C9 three weeks ago, and I've now noticed (after ~125 hours of running it) that the middle third of the TV (vertically) is brighter than the rest. It's very weird, I can't tell if it's banding or something else. The typical banding you see at grey 5-15% is almost non-existent, it's awesome... but the middle third of the screen when on a generally flat colored screen (the blue-grey menus of my hockey videogame for instance) is definitely a little lighter.

Is this a common issue? I haven't run a manual refresh yet, debating if that'd be the right move here. TV's still within the return period if that's what needs to happen, but I sure hope not.
Yep I have a C7 and on a full white screen you can tell a slight diff in the middle third versus the sides of the panel.

buddy of mine had an EF9500, same thing, but his was more severe. Almost had a yellow tint in the middle third on a full white screen.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,683
For those who are interested, I got bored and did an HDR pass on a Tron Legacy Trailer to give it an HDR kick

 

Mike Works

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,775
Yep I have a C7 and on a full white screen you can tell a slight diff in the middle third versus the sides of the panel.

buddy of mine had an EF9500, same thing, but his was more severe. Almost had a yellow tint in the middle third on a full white screen.
Hmm, do you notice it in any content when casually viewing? Videogames or animated movies or anything? I gotta figure out if i need to do an exchange.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,405
Yes, this is true, but I did not want to get into subsampling. I would personally not consider anything other than 4:4:4 for a TV myself.

I haven't tried it, but I imagine 4:2:0 is fine for most games. Chroma subsampling usually isn't noticeable unless you are dealing with fine details on a flat colored background, like viewing a webpage or document.

Bear in mind that movies and TV are 4:2:0 already, and that many TVs only support 4:4:4 in a special PC mode.

This is without HDR though? Is there enough bandwidth over hdmi 2.0b for 4k120 chroma 420 with hdr turned on?

Yes, but with an asterisk. There is not enough bandwidth to do normal HDR10 or Dolby Vision. However it is possible to use HDR with 8-bit color depth. Basically you get to use HDR's PQ curve to determine brightness instead of SDR's gamma, but you don't get any increase in the total number of colors you can display. In practical terms, you will get the correct brightness range from an HDR signal, but you may encounter color banding.

It is the same situation if you try to use 4K60 4:4:4 HDR over HDMI 2.0b. This is why you see people report banding when using 4K HDR in PC mode.
 

Azurik

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
2,441
This is going to sound like a really dumb question, but we leave our TV on for our dogs during the day. Would OLED be a bad idea if channel logos are on the screen all day?
No issues, both my oleds are on all day fo the same reason :)
don't let misinformed people here spread fear. Since series 8 it's nearly impossible get get burn in. Series 7 had more issues due to the size of red pixels, but thats a thing of the past. My TVs are being used daily for tv, gaming etc with static logs, hud bars and so on without the slightest sign of image retention let alone burn in. There are plenty of videos on YouTube from respectable tech persons doing burn in tests with surprising results. Don't let people scare you. You don't have to handle oleds like they are the most fragile thing in the world.
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
Amazon has the 55-inch TCL 6-Series (2019 model) for $467 plus tax. Is that a no-brainer at that price? I need a 4K HDR TV to use with the PS5.
 

No42.05W70.2

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
763
Price. Price determines which tech wins with consumers. OLED will continue to get cheaper, meanwhile LED sets will continue to go up in cost for some time by adding more LED's, making the sets more complex (mini LED). Over time they will get cheaper, but by then who knows where OLED prices will be. I don't see micro LED really being a consumer grade tech anytime soon. I think we are approaching a point now where tv PQ improvements will stagnate again, like near the end of plasmas run.
Price will come down for OLEDs, but for OEMs like Sony and Samsung, it will always be cheaper to produce an LED television in house. Even if they add dimming zones. They own the manufacturing process, so they're able to do it a lot more efficiently. That's why Samsung's top of the line 4k sets have remained competitively priced against OLEDs.

And the thing is PQ improvements going stagnant is that it really only applies to OLEDs. And while OLEDs have some inherent advantages over LEDs, those advantages aren't all encompassing. LG Display appears to have given up on improving image fidelity of its panels. Instead they're focusing on form factor gimmicks like the rollable OLED.
 

Deleted member 35478

User-requested account closure
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,788
Price will come down for OLEDs, but for OEMs like Sony and Samsung, it will always be cheaper to produce an LED television in house. Even if they add dimming zones. They own the manufacturing process, so they're able to do it a lot more efficiently. That's why Samsung's top of the line 4k sets have remained competitively priced against OLEDs.

And the thing is PQ improvements going stagnant is that it really only applies to OLEDs. And while OLEDs have some inherent advantages over LEDs, those advantages aren't all encompassing. LG Display appears to have given up on improving image fidelity of its panels. Instead they're focusing on form factor gimmicks like the rollable OLED.

Sony doesn't manufacturer panels for any of its displays, LCD or OLED. Very few companies actually make their own panels, companies like Samsung, LG, and TCL, do though, and I think Sharp used to, not sure if they still do. Anyone remember the Sharp Elite LCD tv, Pioneer Kuro Elite plasma clone attempt lol.

LCD image quality improvements typically revolve around contrast ratio, that's why there's the race for more dimming zones, and more LED's. OLED while not as bright as LED is probably at a point where price matters more than improving the image quality, the image quality is arguably better than LCD already (most reviewers opinions suggest that). So where does that leave LG and OLED, make the panels more burn in resistant, improve motion, add features like hdmi 2.1, VRR etc. Who knows, maybe OLED has reached the best PQ it can output, and hopefully LCD can catch up and eat LG's forcing them to further improve OLED.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,494
Does anyone have any helpful tips for someone new to HDR? Got a TCL 6 Series, the R625, and it looks great but beyond that I'm not sure what to do with the hdr presets. dark, normal, bright, brighter etc. haven't played many hdr games on it yet but metro exodus looked great and Spider-Man did as well. Dolby vision was what really got me, couldn't believe how theater like my bedroom felt watching Rogue One.
 

RedlineRonin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,620
Minneapolis
Hmm, do you notice it in any content when casually viewing? Videogames or animated movies or anything? I gotta figure out if i need to do an exchange.
Not unless you get those moments in a movie or game where the screen goes pure white, then it's a tiny bit noticeable.

I'd say my banding is more noticeable, so if you're good on that front, you should be okay. Of course, definitely exchange if you want, but just know you may get one without that issue and with more vignetting/banding.

What a great reminder of the title of this thread
 

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,814
Norway but living in France
The C9 65" just went on a really good discount in Scandinavia (~$2000, never been this low).
I have no problem waiting for the CX 65" as it will likely be ~$2800 in October according to trends.
But if there's no point waiting... I read the one Forbes hands-on article that says image has notably improved (due to the 3rd gen chip) but that's for movies and the new cinema mode most likely. I'm on the fence.
 
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Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,621
The C9 65" just went on a really good discount in Scandinavia (~$2000, never been this low).
I have no problem waiting for the CX 65" as it will likely be ~$2800 in October according to trends.
But if there's no point waiting... I read the one Forbes hands-on article that says image has notably improved (due to the 3rd gen chip) but that's for movies and the new cinema mode most likely. I'm on the fence.

No-one else has really said that the CX is noticeably improved. Just that one guy, who said the C9 was a noticeable improvement on the C8 in terms of the brightness and HDR (it wasn't). I'd just go for it myself, there's nothing in the CX that makes me even consider upgrading. Even if it was free but I had to sort collection and drop off of my existing 65" set, I'd be on the fence about if the hassle is even worth it.