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Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,637
I'm not sure I agree, based on my robotics comment above. Once you solve the automation problem it shouldn't matter if you have to place X sized pixels Y distance apart or (0.5)X sized pixels (0.5)Y distance apart. I'm oversimplifying but do you know what I'm saying?

When we're talking about tiny proccesses happening multiple times on one display, it does matter. Ot at least it does with manufacturing yields that make sense.
In the cpu space, Intel has been struggling to shrink their processes to 10nm and 7nm and it's not because they haven't worked out an automated process to do this, it's that there's enough of a failure rate in the manufacturing process that they weren't happy with the profit margin they would get from selling them.

Smaller processes with more points of failure is going to result in lower yields. But if they solve it at 4k, it at least makes 8k easier. I can see a path where they make it a technology for ultra large TVs, like 80" and above maybe and look for new options in the smaller space.
 

Rei no Otaku

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,351
Cranston RI

asdad123

Member
Oct 25, 2017
217
Can we talk about sound bars here?

I want a soundbar/system for my living look. Any suggestions on what to get? There's aused Q90R soundbar locally for $400 but doesn't include the rear speakers. Will that impact me greatly? It's $900 less than what it sells in store but I can't seem to find those rear speakers for sale separately

If it makes a difference, my room is prewired in the 4 corners to put speakers up. Should I do that instead of a soundbar?

I have a 82" Q90R with the built in speakers.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,233
OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,770
When we're talking about tiny proccesses happening multiple times on one display, it does matter. Ot at least it does with manufacturing yields that make sense.
In the cpu space, Intel has been struggling to shrink their processes to 10nm and 7nm and it's not because they haven't worked out an automated process to do this, it's that there's enough of a failure rate in the manufacturing process that they weren't happy with the profit margin they would get from selling them.

Smaller processes with more points of failure is going to result in lower yields. But if they solve it at 4k, it at least makes 8k easier. I can see a path where they make it a technology for ultra large TVs, like 80" and above maybe and look for new options in the smaller space.
I agree with EVERYTHING you just said - and again I'm oversimplifying things. What you said in the bolded is my real point. The hurdle is automating and I do think they'll find a way over that hurdle in the next 2-4 years
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
Ohio
It still shouldn't matter as much as cumulative time. Playing the same game across a hundred hours in five hour intervals with additional content in between shouldn't really be all that different than playing it a hundred hours straight. The pixels shouldn't be progressively getting hotter the entire time, and if you were to play in sessions, they would still hit an average peak temperature for the duration.

It's not like it was with the way varying content helped plasma sets. I think the main reason it's still suggested on OLEDs is really because of the illusion of prevention, when really all you're doing is stalling the inevitable when using the same content for extreme durations.
So Plasma and OLED burn in are different then? I ask because I'm considering OLED, and never got burn in on my Plasma. So I guess OLED is way riskier for gaming then, since varying content doesn't matter?
 

dedhead54

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,983
I went from a ks8000 to an older LG 1080p set a year ago when I moved in with my fiancé, and I've been dying to get back in the 4K game (my ks8000 is a 49" but our living room has a built-in that really would be perfectly filled by a 65" so I haven't swapped them). I really wish I could just afford a B9 but I'm tempted to go ahead and get a Vizio Quantum M or Hisense H9F 65". Is it really worth waiting for new sets later this year? I've already waited longer than I wanted.
 

Deleted member 35478

User-requested account closure
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,788
I got it from watching the same Twitch streamer playing the same game for 2 years (flamu playing World of Warships), it was more like a shadow in the left corner only visible under certain conditions (the ship health bar). The buyer of the TV was made aware and could see it before he bought the TV from be (B6), and I then got a B9.

Do you know approximately how many thousands of hours you watched that stream? Also what value OLED light was set at? These are the only 2 factors that matter, and is info needed for others to know if OLED is right for them.

Yeah, but are you going to watch 5,000 hours of CNN? And if so, how long's that going to take. 7 years? Means it will still last longer than my last Samsung!

I think some people leave streams or shows like CNN on as background noise, so the hours rack up. If that's the case, OLED is not the right tv for them, buy a LCD.

So Plasma and OLED burn in are different then? I ask because I'm considering OLED, and never got burn in on my Plasma. So I guess OLED is way riskier for gaming then, since varying content doesn't matter?

OLED burn in is cumulative hours of the same static image wearing the pixels out, so technically it should be called "burn out". Plasma burn in was just that, the image would burn in and be stuck on screen as a ghosted image. Varying content and breaking panels was a plasma thing, as plasma phosphors aged the chance of them burning in reduced, and varying content could help get rid of some burn in or IR on plasma, that is not the case with OLED. For most people OLED is less risky than plasma, the people that had plasma's and never got burn in, will more than likely not get burn in on oled. There are extreme cases where people do get burn in, I'd love to see a RT'ings style test running the CNN logo to see how long it would take to burn that into a plasma, probably less than 5000 hours.
 

Mitchman1411

Member
Jul 28, 2018
635
Oslo, Norway
Do you know approximately how many thousands of hours you watched that stream? Also what value OLED light was set at? These are the only 2 factors that matter, and is info needed for others to know if OLED is right for them.
Probably 2-3 hours per day or so. I really can't remember if I had OLED light at 100 or the default 80, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was at 100. I'm leaving it at 80 on the B9 now. Now I wonder if the logo detection would dim that part of the screen now with the B9, would be nice to know.
 

KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,621
Do you know approximately how many thousands of hours you watched that stream? Also what value OLED light was set at? These are the only 2 factors that matter, and is info needed for others to know if OLED is right for them.



I think some people leave streams or shows like CNN on as background noise, so the hours rack up. If that's the case, OLED is not the right tv for them, buy a LCD.



OLED burn in is cumulative hours of the same static image wearing the pixels out, so technically it should be called "burn out". Plasma burn in was just that, the image would burn in and be stuck on screen as a ghosted image. Varying content and breaking panels was a plasma thing, as plasma phosphors aged the chance of them burning in reduced, and varying content could help get rid of some burn in or IR on plasma, that is not the case with OLED. For most people OLED is less risky than plasma, the people that had plasma's and never got burn in, will more than likely not get burn in on oled. There are extreme cases where people do get burn in, I'd love to see a RT'ings style test running the CNN logo to see how long it would take to burn that into a plasma, probably less than 5000 hours.

I have a Panasonic G20 (or G25, whichever is 10 years old this year!) and it's still going strong. I got lots of burn-in when it was new, from playing the first PS3 Batman on it. It took decent amount of time to remove the UI from the screen. Maybe a couple of weeks. That was nothing compared to Dark Souls though, that took MONTHS to remove the burn-in. It went eventually though. I did put hundreds of hours into Dark Souls though.

Even now, you get brief retention if you leave the Firestick on it's main screen for 20 mins or so. It goes really, really fast though.

Despite that, TV was amazing and is still producing a great image. I'll get the 48" CX this year I think.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I think some people leave streams or shows like CNN on as background noise, so the hours rack up. If that's the case, OLED is not the right tv for them, buy a LCD.

There's some stuff you can do if you're an avid background noise user.

First is the option that shut downs the image but still let out the sound.

The second, if you need to have some image , you can use the Zoom function and zoom just enough to get the logo out of the screen.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,567
This basically sums up what I DON'T like about CES https://www.techradar.com/news/tcl-...quality-to-budget-6-series-thanks-to-mini-led

The keynote never once mentioned the 6 series, but alas, a refresh with mini-LEDs might come out in 2020 (and a TCL 5-Series QLED as well)
Really, all I care about is a 6 series with HDMI 2.1, VRR, etc that will go nicely with the new consoles. IDGAF about 8k as it will not be a thing for the foreseeable future. The consoles definitely won't be taking advantage of it in any meaningful way. I don't care what they say. So I just want confirmation of those features in the cheaper line. I'm absolutely fine with the PQ off of those to hold me over until micro-led is the new standard in 5 or 6 years.
 

Doc Holliday

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,815
I have a Panasonic G20 (or G25, whichever is 10 years old this year!) and it's still going strong. I got lots of burn-in when it was new, from playing the first PS3 Batman on it. It took decent amount of time to remove the UI from the screen. Maybe a couple of weeks. That was nothing compared to Dark Souls though, that took MONTHS to remove the burn-in. It went eventually though. I did put hundreds of hours into Dark Souls though.

Even now, you get brief retention if you leave the Firestick on it's main screen for 20 mins or so. It goes really, really fast though.

Despite that, TV was amazing and is still producing a great image. I'll get the 48" CX this year I think.

that's just image retention, its normal. Burn in is permanent.
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
Imagine if AVRs are announced in late 2020 without HDMI 2.1 support

Not really a big deal. eARC is good enough. We've been able to buy inexpensive eARC equipped receivers since 2018. Simply run the HDMI cable from the eARC HDMI port on your TV to the eARC port on your receiver. Then plug your Blu-Ray player, Set-top box, game console, PC, etc. into your TV and use that as your HDMI switch rather than the receiver.

Maybe it's a little more cabling, but it gets the audio receiver out of the video processing business, which it never should have been in and generally does a terrible job at.
 
OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,770
***TCL Alert***
I'll post it here instead of buried in a response but Techradar reporting that TCL has both a mini-LED 6 series and a QLED 5 series at their booth. If both come out and are reasonably priced, they'll be great options.

I will buy a 43" QLED 5-Series in a second to replace my 40" 1080p set I use as an office TV
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,567
***TCL Alert***
I'll post it here instead of buried in a response but Techradar reporting that TCL has both a mini-LED 6 series and a QLED 5 series at their booth. If both come out and are reasonably priced, they'll be great options.

I will buy a 43" QLED 5-Series in a second to replace my 40" 1080p set I use as an office TV
Nice. Looking forward to previews.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,637
IGN saying that the C9 will not have 120 HZ but that the CX will?:

Link

It's incorrect. The C9 already does 120Hz.

EDIT: The article says that G-Sync in the new models works up to 120Hz and not the old, which is also incorrect. NVidia even has the panel range on the website.

unknown.png
 

Yukstin

Member
Oct 31, 2017
223
Nashville, TN
Not really a big deal. eARC is good enough. We've been able to buy inexpensive eARC equipped receivers since 2018. Simply run the HDMI cable from the eARC HDMI port on your TV to the eARC port on your receiver. Then plug your Blu-Ray player, Set-top box, game console, PC, etc. into your TV and use that as your HDMI switch rather than the receiver.

Maybe it's a little more cabling, but it gets the audio receiver out of the video processing business, which it never should have been in and generally does a terrible job at.

Except when you have more sources than ports on your TV, using an AV receiver becomes necessary. Right now with my C9 and Xbox X I can't get ALLM to work because my receiver is a 2016 model and doesn't have the correct HDMI ports for this. I want to upgrade my receiver this year so it can pass-through the full signal correctly.

Also receivers are set for pure pass-through usually by default and don't do any video processing so the TV can handle things.
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,732
Italy
Yeah, that's pretty much what LG themselves have said. Half an hour of a CNN logo over two days is the same as 1 hour on one session.

That said, the RTings test showed it took 5,000 hours for CNN to burn in on their test C7's on default OLED light and over 9,000 hours for football and FIFA logos to burn in. Call of Duty WW2 never burnt in.
What about image retention tho?
How many hours of content for that to appear and then disappear?
On Plasma it took months to remove the infamous white GT Sports hud, and how it will take months the get rid (hopefully) of the package list of Death Stranding.

What happen with OLED, it's burn in or nothing?
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
So Vizio were the only ones that hopped on the HDMI 2.1 train?

It looks like there will be more, but I have to give Vizio props for putting HDMI 2.1 on *EVERY* TV this year, even their low end V-Series. That's fantastic. The only reason I didn't get one of their excellent Quantum X TVs last year is they didn't have them in a big enough size and they had no HDMI 2.1. They have cured those two issues, so right now a big Vizio Quantum X is the frontrunner in the race for which TV will pair with my new XSX. That fact Vizio has great pricing makes it even sweeter.

Thanks for this.
So are there any good/affordable eARC compatible receivers yet?

Or even a better (or stupid) question would be..
Since the PS5 and the XSX are going to be the first devices to output a hdmi 2.1 source, is everyone on the planet gonna have to upgrade their receivers?

The Sony HTR-DH970 is a very nice eARC receiver if you are looking for something inexpensive.

See my post above about my thoughts on HDMI 2.1 on receivers. I think eARC makes it unneeded.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,637
What about image retention tho?
How many hours of content for that to appear and then disappear?
On Plasma it took months to remove the infamous white GT Sports hud, and how it will take months the get rid (hopefully) of the package list of Death Stranding.

What happen with OLED, it's burn in or nothing?

There is image retention, but there are tools to remove it built into the sets and it goes away using them. There's one that runs after 4 hours of cumaltive use when the TV is next put into stand-by and one that can be manually selected that runs for half an hour. I believe the 4 hour pixel refresher was patched into C8's (or C7'S?), but was there from launch on the C9.

I've had my C9 since May and have never seen any image retention yet. I play a lot of Overwatch and got the platinum in Death Stranding too even.
 

Ninjician-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
443
What about image retention tho?
How many hours of content for that to appear and then disappear?
On Plasma it took months to remove the infamous white GT Sports hud, and how it will take months the get rid (hopefully) of the package list of Death Stranding.

What happen with OLED, it's burn in or nothing?

We really need more people seeing this test from Rtings.

OLED Burn In Test

FYI, I went from a VT60 plasma to an LG B8 OLED without changing my gaming habits.

I had frequent image retention on the plasma, zero issues on the OLED. Not to mention this was a Best Buy floor model that I bought used from a lady with two kids that watched tons of Nickelodeon, and had 3,000 hours on it when I purchased.

Burn-in should not scare you. In my experience it's less babying than plasma.
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
Not really a big deal. eARC is good enough. We've been able to buy inexpensive eARC equipped receivers since 2018. Simply run the HDMI cable from the eARC HDMI port on your TV to the eARC port on your receiver. Then plug your Blu-Ray player, Set-top box, game console, PC, etc. into your TV and use that as your HDMI switch rather than the receiver.

Maybe it's a little more cabling, but it gets the audio receiver out of the video processing business, which it never should have been in and generally does a terrible job at.

The Sony HTR-DH970 is a very nice eARC receiver if you are looking for something inexpensive.

See my post above about my thoughts on HDMI 2.1 on receivers. I think eARC makes it unneeded.


Thanks for the explanation and suggestion.
But if I have a cable box, how would I connect it?
 

PhoenixDawn

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,615
Any idea when we might start to see the discounts on LG OLEDs as we approach the super bowl? If they haven't already started..
 

Ninjician-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
443
I'm making a very similar transition in the next couple weeks, VT60 to a C9. Out of curiousity, how does the B8 compare to your Panasonic? Are you happy that you upgraded?

Very happy. Nothing wrong with the VT60 but during the Summer it heated the damn room like crazy.

You'd think that 4K HDR gaming would be the selling point, and it really does look good, but my absolute favorite thing about the OLED is the low input lag for gaming, and just how damn good SDR content looks.

After calibration I typically run Super Mario Maker 2 to verify color accuracy, it's amazing.

If you get the C9 definitely get it calibrated.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
Any idea when we might start to see the discounts on LG OLEDs as we approach the super bowl? If they haven't already started..
Most of the time Super Bowl TV sales are for big low-mid range sets, people want 65" and 75" TVs for cheap, the type of people who usually splurge for a TV to watch the super bowl aren't generally looking for $3000 TV's. LG OLEDS get the best deals in the spring, when the new models are released, the previous years versions will be the cheapest they will ever be. Usually around April.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,287
Cincinnati
Well the wife is making me get a new TV as she is going to be taking my current Samsung QLED from my man cave to the living room (which is fine with me!). I am for sure getting an OLED this time, 65" minimum, 75" max. I am leaning 65 at the moment and pretty much down to the C9 or B9, I can't wait for anything new as this will all be in the next 3 weeks after our fireplace and mantle are remodeled. I know the C9 is better but I went ahead and went to Best Buy just to physically look at them and they at least looked almost identical. $200 difference so not really an issue, although I am hoping they go on sale a little more since we will be closer to the Super Bowl in a few weeks, but is the C9 heads and tails better than the B9 or are they comparable enough to it not really mattering in the long run?

I will be using it for games obviously, PS5, Switch maybe a Series X. No PC ever. Streaming D+, Netflix, Hulu etc. and I buy a lot of 4K discs. I am going to assume most will say C9 but just wanted to get some opinions before jumping in.
 

Ninjician-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
443
Well the wife is making me get a new TV as she is going to be taking my current Samsung QLED from my man cave to the living room (which is fine with me!). I am for sure getting an OLED this time, 65" minimum, 75" max. I am leaning 65 at the moment and pretty much down to the C9 or B9, I can't wait for anything new as this will all be in the next 3 weeks after our fireplace and mantle are remodeled. I know the C9 is better but I went ahead and went to Best Buy just to physically look at them and they at least looked almost identical. $200 difference so not really an issue, although I am hoping they go on sale a little more since we will be closer to the Super Bowl in a few weeks, but is the C9 heads and tails better than the B9 or are they comparable enough to it not really mattering in the long run?

I will be using it for games obviously, PS5, Switch maybe a Series X. No PC ever. Streaming D+, Netflix, Hulu etc. and I buy a lot of 4K discs. I am going to assume most will say C9 but just wanted to get some opinions before jumping in.

Everything I've seen shows the C9 gets brighter. If you end up getting the 65". The 77" is only C series.