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AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,078
When arguing about what the best tv technology is, OLED or LCD, when really neither can touch the best display tech from 30 years ago lol.

www.youtube.com

DF Direct! Modern Games Look Amazing On CRT Monitors... Yes, Better than LCD!

After buying a CRT monitor for his retro PC, John started to play modern PC games on it... and things escalated from there, culminating in Rich purchasing th...

Of course not, but CRTs could never reach the kind of screen size that most of us play on these days. DF says they ran games at 720p and they look fine, but look how tiny that monitor is. Of course it's going to look great. If you had a 65" CRT, it would be a different story. And let us not forget all the shortcomings of CRT as well: blurry edges, imperfect geometry, etc.
 

Deleted member 49179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2018
4,140
Of course not, but CRTs could never reach the kind of screen size that most of us play on these days. DF says they ran games at 720p and they look fine, but look how tiny that monitor is. Of course it's going to look great. If you had a 65" CRT, it would be a different story. And let us not forget all the shortcomings of CRT as well: blurry edges, imperfect geometry, etc.

Yeah! Screen size is definitely something that modern TV technology has for it. As well as power usage when compared with CRT TVs.

I remember years ago when I replaced my CRT by a 1080p LCD. I was astounded to have a TV that was soooo huge (46 inch)! But to be honest, it was also a bit of a let down that the picture quality wasn't as good as my old CRT (especially when watching DVDs).
 
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AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,078
I'm surprised you'd have to replace all of your speakers. Why would they not work with a new receiver?

These are the jacks on my receiver:
335397262440DT6.jpg


From what I can see none of the newer receivers have those kinds of jacks.
 

Dez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
139
I'm debating getting the LG C9 this Black Friday. Can anyone confirm the VRR range? Is it 120-48 or 60-48?
 

Deleted member 35478

User-requested account closure
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,788
Of course not, but CRTs could never reach the kind of screen size that most of us play on these days. DF says they ran games at 720p and they look fine, but look how tiny that monitor is. Of course it's going to look great. If you had a 65" CRT, it would be a different story. And let us not forget all the shortcomings of CRT as well: blurry edges, imperfect geometry, etc.

Did you watch the video? CRT monitors have amazing motion resolution, excellent refresh rates, reference level contrast, and even low res on a 24" monitor looked razor sharp according to DF. I'm not saying LCD/OLED are bad technologies, I'm more saddened there was no way to keep CRT going due to the techs limitations, size. Sample and hold has always been an issue I've had with LCD and OLED, I was a plasma guy after CRT.
 

Deleted member 35478

User-requested account closure
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,788
Nah it's a full fledged receiver. That's only a tiny portion of the back panel. It has a few HDMI ins, an out, etc.

I wouldn't say it's a full fledged AVR. It's basically a HTIB blu ray player combo deal without the player.

Anyways your issue is you think you need to replace your speakers if you get a new receiver? You can get a new receiver, and keep your speakers, just buy regular speaker wire. The HTIB receiver you have has those connections at the back to make things easier for average users to install. A regular AVR just has L/R posts for each speaker, your speakers probably have a split connection you put your speaker wire into.

de_avrx2300w_e3_bk_re_001_lo-100661579-orig.jpg


You can use banana clips
banana-plugs-lowres-5.jpg


Or just directly put the speaker wire into the connector and twist to tighten and lock the wire in
IMG_4witharrows-2890830251788fe6d89ec48c8ba46a23.jpg
 
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Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,531
The TCL 6 Series QLED 55 inch is in stock on Amazon now. C'mon Rtings, gimme that review.
 

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,224
I wouldn't say it's a full fledged AVR. It's basically a HTIB blu ray player combo deal without the player.

Anyways your issue is you think you need to replace your speakers if you get a new receiver? You can get a new receiver, and keep your speakers, just buy regular speaker wire. The HTIB receiver you have has those connections at the back to make things easier for average users to install. A regular AVR just has L/R posts for each speaker, your speakers probably have a split connection you put your speaker wire into.

de_avrx2300w_e3_bk_re_001_lo-100661579-orig.jpg


You can use banana clips
banana-plugs-lowres-5.jpg


Or just directly put the speaker wire into the connector and twist to tighten and lock the wire in
IMG_4witharrows-2890830251788fe6d89ec48c8ba46a23.jpg

A lot of times the speakers in these HTIB systems have non-standard impedance. Not always. But it is something to be aware of.

 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
When do the next batch of tvs get released from all the major companies?

the 2020 lineup I guess
 

obsoke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
253
Hey TV Era.
I've been lurking in this thread for a few weeks, trying to absorb information about the current slate of TVs (in addition to reading reviews on other sites).
I think I'm going to pick up the LG C9 55" once it goes back on sale in Canada (it was $2K two weeks ago and $1800 a month ago).
I did have a few questions that I was hoping someone could offer their opinions on.

1) My main uses for this TV will be gaming (MMOs, modern games but also lots of retro stuff), watching stuff online & movies (via a blu ray drive) - is an OLED right for me?

2) The rtings LG C9 review lists "Brightness varies with different content due to Automatic Brightness Limiter (ABL)" as a potential issue. Is there a way to disable or get around this? Is it a big deal while it's active?

3) The rtings review also has this snippet under the "Motion/Sutter" section:
"Due to the nearly instantaneous response time of the LG OLED C9, 24p motion can appear to stutter, as each frame is held static onscreen for nearly the entire time. This can be especially noticeable in slow panning shots when watching movies."
It then suggests that the "OLED Motion" feature can be enabled to reduce this - but this itself will add "judder"? Can anyone speak to this & how this affects their experience watching films? Should I be concerned?

4) Anything I should know if I'll be using this as a PC monitor 80% of the time (console usage being the other 20%)? I'm planning on removing any icons and taskbar from the Desktop view & enable a short screensaver window to reduce burn-in opportunities.

Thanks! <3
 

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,696
Tacoma, Washington
Hey TV Era.
I've been lurking in this thread for a few weeks, trying to absorb information about the current slate of TVs (in addition to reading reviews on other sites).
I think I'm going to pick up the LG C9 55" once it goes back on sale in Canada (it was $2K two weeks ago and $1800 a month ago).
I did have a few questions that I was hoping someone could offer their opinions on.

1) My main uses for this TV will be gaming (MMOs, modern games but also lots of retro stuff), watching stuff online & movies (via a blu ray drive) - is an OLED right for me?

2) The rtings LG C9 review lists "Brightness varies with different content due to Automatic Brightness Limiter (ABL)" as a potential issue. Is there a way to disable or get around this? Is it a big deal while it's active?

3) The rtings review also has this snippet under the "Motion/Sutter" section:
"Due to the nearly instantaneous response time of the LG OLED C9, 24p motion can appear to stutter, as each frame is held static onscreen for nearly the entire time. This can be especially noticeable in slow panning shots when watching movies."
It then suggests that the "OLED Motion" feature can be enabled to reduce this - but this itself will add "judder"? Can anyone speak to this & how this affects their experience watching films? Should I be concerned?

4) Anything I should know if I'll be using this as a PC monitor 80% of the time (console usage being the other 20%)? I'm planning on removing any icons and taskbar from the Desktop view & enable a short screensaver window to reduce burn-in opportunities.

Thanks! <3
ABL is not something you can disable, as it's there to ensure your TV doesn't overheat when a significant portion of the screen is white/bright. I don't find it all that distracting or much of a big deal, and I own an older OLED where the ABL is actually more noticeable than on the newer models.

As for judder in films, like Rtings mentioned, it's quite noticeable in long, horizontal panning shots, but that's actually the only time I have ever noticed it myself, and panning shots appearing choppy isn't really exclusive to OLEDs.
 

rou021

Member
Oct 27, 2017
527
These are the jacks on my receiver:

From what I can see none of the newer receivers have those kinds of jacks.
I've actually never seen those before. It looks to be electrically equivilent to your standard speaker connectors, so you may be able to get some cheap adapters for them. If not, then you might be able to cut the connectors off the receiver end, strip the wire, and either connect them directly or use banana plugs. Either way, the solutions are actually pretty cheap and easy to do.

When do the next batch of tvs get released from all the major companies?

the 2020 lineup I guess
While some TVs do get announced in the fall, the vast majority are announced at CES in January. They usually don't start trickling out into stores until the spring and some can even be released as late as the summer or early fall.

Hey TV Era.
I've been lurking in this thread for a few weeks, trying to absorb information about the current slate of TVs (in addition to reading reviews on other sites).
I think I'm going to pick up the LG C9 55" once it goes back on sale in Canada (it was $2K two weeks ago and $1800 a month ago).
I did have a few questions that I was hoping someone could offer their opinions on.

1) My main uses for this TV will be gaming (MMOs, modern games but also lots of retro stuff), watching stuff online & movies (via a blu ray drive) - is an OLED right for me?
This will depend on multiple factors. The risk of burn in--particularly for recent model OLEDs--can be greatly exaggerated, but there's still technically a risk. If you're going to be playing the exact same game over and over then that chance will be raised. For example, if you play the same multiplayer game for a couple hours a day for several months to a year, then it becomes more likely (though not guaranteed). And it'll also happen sooner if you don't vary the content with other games, movies, and shows.

The other thing to consider is if you will be watching this TV in a bright room. For SDR content, LCD has the advantage in a very bright room, though OLEDs are no slouch here. For moderately lit to dark rooms, OLED is the undisputed king right now. You'll have to decide based on how you'll watch the TV.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the higher you have the brightness set, the higher your risk is for burn in. Ordinarily your gaming habits might be fine, but if you place the TV in a room where you feel you have to have the OLED Light set close to the max, then you're upping the risk further.

If you're really worried about burn in, you can always buy the TV from Best Buy and get their extended warranty since it's the only one to explicitly cover burn in. In addition, LG doesn't officially cover it in their factory warranty, but they have been replacing a lot of people's burned in panels lately anyway--even for TVs that were outside of the factory warranty period.

2) The rtings LG C9 review lists "Brightness varies with different content due to Automatic Brightness Limiter (ABL)" as a potential issue. Is there a way to disable or get around this? Is it a big deal while it's active?
The ABL cannot be disabled, not to mention there are multiple reasons as to why it's there. In most cases, it shouldn't be that much of an issue for SDR. Even for HDR, you can still get retina searing brightness out of the TV.

There are, however, multiple dimming features separate from ABL that can be disabled to help maintain brightness within the limits of the ABL.

3) The rtings review also has this snippet under the "Motion/Sutter" section:
"Due to the nearly instantaneous response time of the LG OLED C9, 24p motion can appear to stutter, as each frame is held static onscreen for nearly the entire time. This can be especially noticeable in slow panning shots when watching movies."
It then suggests that the "OLED Motion" feature can be enabled to reduce this - but this itself will add "judder"? Can anyone speak to this & how this affects their experience watching films? Should I be concerned?
The stutter mentioned in the Rtings review refers to a form of stutter that's inherent to 24p content. If you look closely, you can also notice this stutter in commercial cinemas too (both analog and digital). Different display types can affect how noticeable this stutter can be. Since the response time (how quickly a pixel can change from one color or brightness value to another) is often much slower on LCD than the likes of CRT, plasma, OLED, and even projected film, it tends to cause a smearing or blurring effect between frames. This can mask (but not entirely eliminate) some 24p stutter. It's just stands out more for people that transition from an LCD with a slower response time to OLED, which has a nearly instantaneous response time.

Further, higher brightness can make stutter more noticeable too. While OLEDs are not as bright as some high end LCDs, they can still get extremely bright. If you combine that with the response time, that can make it more apparent. That said, if stutter hasn't been an issue for you on other display types or at the cinema, then it probably won't bother you that much on OLED. Before I'd watched movies on an OLED, I was in your shoes with being very concerned about 24p stutter on OLED. When I finally did, it actually wasn't much of an issue and was largely in line with my plasma. If you can, I recommend checking one out in person (with motion interpolation disabled) to see it for yourself.

Worst case scenario, you can always engage the motion interpolation function to smooth things out, but be aware that causes other issues too.

4) Anything I should know if I'll be using this as a PC monitor 80% of the time (console usage being the other 20%)? I'm planning on removing any icons and taskbar from the Desktop view & enable a short screensaver window to reduce burn-in opportunities.

Thanks! <3
I don't know if I'd recommend using one as a PC monitor. If you're just using the PC for gaming, then it shouldn't be any different than the burn in risk from a console. I did exactly that for years without issue on my plasmas (and I'm currently doing the same with my OLED). If you're going to be doing a lot of tasks other than gaming though, then I'd probably caution against it.
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
I'm waiting for Samsungs 2020 QLED offerings. Hope they include hdmi 2.1 and Dolby vision.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
Friendly reminder for sports fans here tomorrow's NFL game will be broadcast in 4K/HDR via the Fox Sports app on Apple TV and Roku.
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,312
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Just bought a 65'' Samsung RU7100 at an excellent price. It should be delivered on friday and will hopefully get me right into 4K gaming. hopefully it's not too big, as Im normally 2.5 metera away from the screen.
 

obsoke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
253
ABL is not something you can disable, as it's there to ensure your TV doesn't overheat when a significant portion of the screen is white/bright. I don't find it all that distracting or much of a big deal, and I own an older OLED where the ABL is actually more noticeable than on the newer models.

As for judder in films, like Rtings mentioned, it's quite noticeable in long, horizontal panning shots, but that's actually the only time I have ever noticed it myself, and panning shots appearing choppy isn't really exclusive to OLEDs.
This will depend on multiple factors. The risk of burn in--particularly for recent model OLEDs--can be greatly exaggerated, but there's still technically a risk. If you're going to be playing the exact same game over and over then that chance will be raised. For example, if you play the same multiplayer game for a couple hours a day for several months to a year, then it becomes more likely (though not guaranteed). And it'll also happen sooner if you don't vary the content with other games, movies, and shows.

The other thing to consider is if you will be watching this TV in a bright room. For SDR content, LCD has the advantage in a very bright room, though OLEDs are no slouch here. For moderately lit to dark rooms, OLED is the undisputed king right now. You'll have to decide based on how you'll watch the TV.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the higher you have the brightness set, the higher your risk is for burn in. Ordinarily your gaming habits might be fine, but if you place the TV in a room where you feel you have to have the OLED Light set close to the max, then you're upping the risk further.

If you're really worried about burn in, you can always buy the TV from Best Buy and get their extended warranty since it's the only one to explicitly cover burn in. In addition, LG doesn't officially cover it in their factory warranty, but they have been replacing a lot of people's burned in panels lately anyway--even for TVs that were outside of the factory warranty period.


The ABL cannot be disabled, not to mention there are multiple reasons as to why it's there. In most cases, it shouldn't be that much of an issue for SDR. Even for HDR, you can still get retina searing brightness out of the TV.

There are, however, multiple dimming features separate from ABL that can be disabled to help maintain brightness within the limits of the ABL.


The stutter mentioned in the Rtings review refers to a form of stutter that's inherent to 24p content. If you look closely, you can also notice this stutter in commercial cinemas too (both analog and digital). Different display types can affect how noticeable this stutter can be. Since the response time (how quickly a pixel can change from one color or brightness value to another) is often much slower on LCD than the likes of CRT, plasma, OLED, and even projected film, it tends to cause a smearing or blurring effect between frames. This can mask (but not entirely eliminate) some 24p stutter. It's just stands out more for people that transition from an LCD with a slower response time to OLED, which has a nearly instantaneous response time.

Further, higher brightness can make stutter more noticeable too. While OLEDs are not as bright as some high end LCDs, they can still get extremely bright. If you combine that with the response time, that can make it more apparent. That said, if stutter hasn't been an issue for you on other display types or at the cinema, then it probably won't bother you that much on OLED. Before I'd watched movies on an OLED, I was in your shoes with being very concerned about 24p stutter on OLED. When I finally did, it actually wasn't much of an issue and was largely in line with my plasma. If you can, I recommend checking one out in person (with motion interpolation disabled) to see it for yourself.

Worst case scenario, you can always engage the motion interpolation function to smooth things out, but be aware that causes other issues too.


I don't know if I'd recommend using one as a PC monitor. If you're just using the PC for gaming, then it shouldn't be any different than the burn in risk from a console. I did exactly that for years without issue on my plasmas (and I'm currently doing the same with my OLED). If you're going to be doing a lot of tasks other than gaming though, then I'd probably caution against it.

Thanks for the replies - I think these are things I can live with. I didn't realize ABL was such a vital part of the way OLEDs operate! Also, the TV may be technically a PC monitor but that PC is an HTPC with a gaming GPU - no Excel here.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,405
damn. Knowing you you've tried everything. Wonder what happened

Probably some kind of electrical fault causing signal integrity issues, if I had to guess. The lines actually flicker back and forth between displaying correct values and displaying overly bright pixels depending on what else is on screen.

No clue as to what would have caused it to trigger now, though. I had been using the TV normally on a daily basis without issues, and this was just there when I turned it on yesterday.
 
OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,770
Probably some kind of electrical fault causing signal integrity issues, if I had to guess. The lines actually flicker back and forth between displaying correct values and displaying overly bright pixels depending on what else is on screen.

No clue as to what would have caused it to trigger now, though. I had been using the TV normally on a daily basis without issues, and this was just there when I turned it on yesterday.

Like you said, you'll get it replaced...but it's still super annoying nonetheless
 

killertofu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
897
Holy god damn shit I finally got my panel fixed and played Tetris effect for the first time on my c8 it's so beautiful goddamn I'm crying
 
Oct 27, 2017
764
In not sure if this question has been answered in this thread but for the owners that has a 4K Oled TV with Dolby Vision, is there any significant difference between the standard HDR10 and Dolby Vision while watching movies. I hear some says there is not much difference and some says they can see difference so I want to hear it from the owners here.
 

Deleted member 16452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,276
In not sure if this question has been answered in this thread but for the owners that has a 4K Oled TV with Dolby Vision, is there any significant difference between the standard HDR10 and Dolby Vision while watching movies. I hear some says there is not much difference and some says they can see difference so I want to hear it from the owners here.

With Dolby Vision you get a closer approximation to how the filmmaker or content creator wanted said content to look. The TV or blue ray player has to tone map the different brightness levels within a scene in HDR10, where with Dolby Vision or HDR10+ the content itself comes with metadata that tells the TV what is the proper way to do this.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,621
With Dolby Vision you get a closer approximation to how the filmmaker or content creator wanted said content to look. The TV or blue ray player has to tone map the different brightness levels within a scene in HDR10, where with Dolby Vision or HDR10+ the content itself comes with metadata that tells the TV what is the proper way to do this.

Worth noting that you're probably not going to notice too much difference on Netflix or Amazon Prime with their bitrate. At least I don't. I can tell with a 4k blu ray though and I've heard the same can be said with iTunes
 

Deleted member 14649

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,524
In not sure if this question has been answered in this thread but for the owners that has a 4K Oled TV with Dolby Vision, is there any significant difference between the standard HDR10 and Dolby Vision while watching movies. I hear some says there is not much difference and some says they can see difference so I want to hear it from the owners here.

I've actually preferred HDR on all the TVs I've owned so far. I find Dolby Vision to be too dim on both of my OLEDs unless I use the less accurate Bright setting.
 

Aesop

Member
Oct 27, 2017
314
Germany
Does dynamic tonemapping add input lag? (for PS4 HDR gaming)

Also, here are my settings for the LG C9 if someone's interested. Is there anything that I should change?

3gdF7ka.png
 

Deleted member 16452

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
7,276
Does dynamic tonemapping add input lag? (for PS4 HDR gaming)

Also, here are my settings for the LG C9 if someone's interested. Is there anything that I should change?

3gdF7ka.png

Shouldn't Dolby Vision have OLED light at 50?

Dolby Vision Cinema is default at 50 on my C8, not sure if they changed it on the 9s tho.

Dolby Vision Cinema Home is 100 on my C8, but that kinda defeats the purpose of DV since its blows up the brightness and makes it look similar to HDR10.
 

Aesop

Member
Oct 27, 2017
314
Germany
Shouldn't Dolby Vision have OLED light at 50?
Dolby Vision Cinema is default at 50 on my C8, not sure if they changed it on the 9s tho.
Dolby Vision Cinema Home is 100 on my C8, but that kinda defeats the purpose of DV since its blows up the brightness and makes it look similar to HDR10.

It was changed to 100 on the C9. Why wouldn't it be at the highest level, if I want to reach the highest possible peak brightness for HDR? DV still utilizes dynamic metadata, how can it be the same as HDR10?

(I'm new to this)
 

Deleted member 16452

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
7,276
It was changed to 100 on the C9. Why wouldn't it be at the highest level, if I want to reach the highest possible peak brightness for HDR? DV still utilizes dynamic metadata, how can it be the same as HDR10?

(I'm new to this)

Oh, didn't know they changed the defaults on the C9, my bad.

On the C8, it still uses the peak brightness of the TV at 50. I'm not sure what exactly goes on if you set it to 100, but it makes the picture inaccurate and areas of the scene will be brighter than intended. It does create an overall brighter picture, but it comes at the cost of highlights looking less impressive. My guess is that its set up so at 50, the areas of the scene that are supposed to be at SDR levels of brightness, can remain there as intended, while areas that are intended to be super bright can use up to the max potential brightness of the TV.

Its easy to see and compare just by switching between Cinema and Cinema Home.
 

Deleted member 14649

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Oct 27, 2017
3,524
If you have a calibrated OLED (or any TV really) watch Midsommar on it. It is one of the best looking films I've watched for some time, as a good 95% of the movie is set outside in bright conditions. The colours and skin tones are just unreal.
 

Deleted member 9327

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Oct 26, 2017
394
I have a Q9FN for several months now. May some tech savvy ppl in here elaborate on and enlighten me about it's FreeSync capabilities?
From my understanding thus far:

- VRR @ 4K = 48hz - 60hz (rendering it basically useless since there are afaik no games that run in 4K@60 other than Gears 5?)
- VRR @ 1080 = 20hz - 120hz (best solution because of upscaling, uses LFC for everything below 48hz right?)
- VRR @ 1440 = 20hz - 120hz (not recommended with TV because of weird upscaling/pixel ratio + there are reports that HDR doesn't work @ 1440p?)

Plus: My Samsung Soundbar is Dolby Atmos capable, but thanks to the limitations of HDMI ARC/HDMI 2.0 FreeSync + Atmos isn't possible, right? On the other hand I've read over on reddit that when I hook the One X to my Soundbar FreeSync + Atmos should work @ 1080p?

This whole FreeSync/VRR scenario is confusing as hell and documentation from Xbox and Samsung is poor.
Is there a list of games which speciifally make use of FreeSync/VRR on One X? The store has a VRR tag, but it only lists about 8 games or something?

Thanks in advance!
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,427
Has anyone done any look into how the LG OLEDs do scaling? I hear they scale 1080p perfectly with no blur, is that true? What about other resolutions like 480, 720, 1440?
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,405
Has anyone done any look into how the LG OLEDs do scaling? I hear they scale 1080p perfectly with no blur, is that true? What about other resolutions like 480, 720, 1440?

1440p or any non-integer divisor of 4K is going to have blurring of text or any other fine details. Text looks fine from a 1080p source. It's not doing integer scaling, but it's good enough.