Looks like the C9 is a beast, I wish we knew if it'll be fully compatible with the next gen before buying it, i'll wait a little.
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My KS8000 just died on me a few minutes ago, so now I'm in the market for a new TV. Based on the last few pages, am I correct in thinking the LG C9 is my best bet for PC and console gaming?
For people that went from the KS8000 to the LG C9, how big of an improvement is the set? I haven't actually seen an OLED in person before.
For people that went from the KS8000 to the LG C9, how big of an improvement is the set? I haven't actually seen an OLED in person before.
I plan on jumping on the 4K/HDR bandwagon when this year's Black Friday rolls around. Judging from the last page the C9 is the best bet? It's just about in my price range at the moment so should hit the sweet spot with some deals.
I went from a KS8000 to a B7 for PC and console gaming and it was a pretty big improvement. The C9 will be even more so.
Here's what NVCP looks like to me, when the GPU is connected directly to the AVR.
Using the default or Nvidia color settings make no difference. Trying to add a custom resolution of 2650x1440 at 120Hz causes the TV to lose signal, requiring a restart and unplugging/plugging back in the HDMI cable.
Would you mind sharing your Denon settings with me? Mainly what you have selected under Video > HDMI Setup and Video > Output Settings, just so I can compare with my own settings.
Also, my X4400H received an update yesterday (Version 5461-9145-8331-0125), and even though eARC still only outputs Stereo, the audio sync issue related to regular ARC seems to have been fixed (everyone assumed that had to do with LG - apparently, not).
That doesn't help much when the TV's EDID only provides information for two speakers/channels, though...
Had a B7 before and now have a Sony A8F and not sure what Sony does with their motion processing but the motion seems infinitely better on the Sony, particularly for 24fps content. Like, it isn't even a contest and I'm surprised review sites don't mention it. The stutter on the B7 drove me absolutely CRAZY even when I used a little motion interpolation but the soap opera effect was very apparent. I notice no such soap opera effect when motion interpolation is on a low setting on the Sony.
I finally found a solution to my problem!
If you haven't kept up with my issues, here's a summary: I have a 65" LG OLED C9 and a Denon AVR-X4400H. Currently, an eARC connection between those devices only outputs stereo sound, so that's out of question (both LG and Denon are aware of it, but there's no fix in sight). ARC works (with no more audio delay, thanks to a very recent Denon firmware update), but that does not carry lossless HD audio, and even Atmos is output using Dolby Digital Plus, which is a compressed format (there's a notable difference in quality from uncompressed Dolby TrueHD).
So, for PC gaming, that leaves a direct HDMI connection to the TV, or through the AVR, as the only viable options. Connecting the GPU directly to the TV makes the graphics drivers only receive information for two speakers/channels from the TV's EDID, rendering surround sound unusable. Connecting the GPU through the receiver made non-standard resolutions disappear, for some reason, even though there was no reason for that to happen (HDMI 2.0b has more than enough bandwidth to support 1440p@120Hz, even in HDR).
Then, it occurred to me. I'd have to override either the TV's or the AVR's EDID to include the missing information - audio formats for the TV; video formats for the AVR. Adding the missing audio formats seemed too complicated, so I went with the easier alternative: adding a detailed resolution via Custom Resolution Utility (CRU).
I'd used that software before to remove the 4096 x 2160 resolution from all of my OLED TVs, which, although technically supported, would cause issues with Nvidia's DSR (it would render images with the highest possible resolution as the base for its multiplier, and some games would end up with black bars or other visual anomalies).
Adding a new detailed resolution is even easier, as Richard demonstrates in this Digital Foundry video:
I added a timestamp, but, if it doesn't work, the relevant part starts at 5:47.
The fix: download CRU from the link above, make sure that your active "display" is selected (in the case of a GPU connected through a Denon AVR, it shows up as "DENON-AVRHD"), and click on "Add" under "Detailed resolutions". Put "2650" under active horizontal resolution and "1440" under active vertical resolution. Don't forget to change the refresh rate to "120Hz". Click "OK" on both windows and run "restart.exe" or "restart64.exe", depending on your OS. Your drivers will restart. Open the Nvidia Control Panel, navigate to "Display > Change resolution" and a new set of resolutions should be listed under "PC" - including 2560 x 1440, with a refresh rate of 120Hz. You're done!
Not sure if all X4400H AVRs are lacking compatible resolutions, or if the issue is exclusive to my unit, but, thankfully, there's an easy fix.
P.S.: Updating drivers will require you to go through the entire process again, so be aware of that!
If you haven't kept up with my issues, here's a summary: I have a 65" LG OLED C9 and a Denon AVR-X4400H. Currently, an eARC connection between those devices only outputs stereo sound, so that's out of question (both LG and Denon are aware of it, but there's no fix in sight). ARC works (with no more audio delay, thanks to a very recent Denon firmware update), but that does not carry lossless HD audio, and even Atmos is output using Dolby Digital Plus, which is a compressed format (there's a notable difference in quality from uncompressed Dolby TrueHD).
So, for PC gaming, that leaves a direct HDMI connection to the TV, or through the AVR, as the only viable options. Connecting the GPU directly to the TV makes the graphics drivers only receive information for two speakers/channels from the TV's EDID, rendering surround sound unusable. Connecting the GPU through the receiver made non-standard resolutions disappear, for some reason, even though there was no reason for that to happen (HDMI 2.0b has more than enough bandwidth to support 1440p@120Hz, even in HDR).
Then, it occurred to me. I'd have to override either the TV's or the AVR's EDID to include the missing information - audio formats for the TV; video formats for the AVR. Adding the missing audio formats seemed too complicated, so I went with the easier alternative: adding a detailed resolution via Custom Resolution Utility (CRU).
I'd used that software before to remove the 4096 x 2160 resolution from all of my OLED TVs, which, although technically supported, would cause issues with Nvidia's DSR (it would render images with the highest possible resolution as the base for its multiplier, and some games would end up with black bars or other visual anomalies).
Adding a new detailed resolution is even easier, as Richard demonstrates in this Digital Foundry video:
I added a timestamp, but, if it doesn't work, the relevant part starts at 5:47.
The fix: download CRU from the link above, make sure that your active "display" is selected (in the case of a GPU connected through a Denon AVR, it shows up as "DENON-AVRHD"), and click on "Add" under "Detailed resolutions". Put "2650" under active horizontal resolution and "1440" under active vertical resolution. Don't forget to change the refresh rate to "120Hz". Click "OK" on both windows and run "restart.exe" or "restart64.exe", depending on your OS. Your drivers will restart. Open the Nvidia Control Panel, navigate to "Display > Change resolution" and a new set of resolutions should be listed under "PC" - including 2560 x 1440, with a refresh rate of 120Hz. You're done!
Not sure if all X4400H AVRs are lacking compatible resolutions, or if the issue is exclusive to my unit, but, thankfully, there's an easy fix.
P.S.: Updating drivers will require you to go through the entire process again, so be aware of that!
Hey y'all, quick question. I own a 65 inch lg c8 oled. Ive been messing with the different hdr settings (vivid, standard, cinema, ect) and i find vivid to produce the most appealing color ranges. Shadow of the tomb raider and horizon (on an xbox one x and ps4 pro) are the games ive been testing the various modes in. I like vivid a-lot but i know its more saturated than natural supposedly, but the colors pop so much and clash nicely against my tv's deep blacks. Is vivid the right hdr setting to use or am i really missing out on things by not using a different setting?
Don't use vivid. Use HDR Brightroom and get used to it. I get the idea of "pop" but you're blowing any and all subtleties out the window in favour of neon garishness.
Give it a week and you will never look back. Don't have an amazing TV and use that, please..
Thanks i think i always just skipped over that one and used standard or vivid
Found a workaround for PC, forgot about the Xbox One X.
The EDID override only works for PC, obviously, since there's no CRU for Xbox. On the console side, connecting through the AVR still gives me no option for 1440p, ALL or VRR - only via direct connection to the TV, which has its own downside (no lossless HD audio).
Would love to hear from C9 and Denon users about their experience on the X1X. tokkun, do you have that console?
Just a heads-up: unless your input label is set to PC (where all picture modes have the same low input lag), you need to select "Game" and "Game (HDR)" to benefit from low input lag.
The EDID override only works for PC, obviously, since there's no CRU for Xbox. On the console side, connecting through the AVR still gives me no option for 1440p, ALL or VRR - only via direct connection to the TV, which has its own downside (no lossless HD audio).
Would love to hear from C9 and Denon users about their experience on the X1X. tokkun, do you have that console?
Just a heads-up: unless your input label is set to PC (where all picture modes have the same low input lag), you need to select "Game" and "Game (HDR)" to benefit from low input lag.
I have a LG b7 and Denon x2000. My avr can't handle a 4k/60 source, so I go direct to the tv with the pc, issue is the PC send a PCM signal to the tv, 2.1. I wonder if my AVR can handle 1440p/60 with your fix, i'm fine bumping resolution to be able to have 5.1 surround out of my AVR.
I used to have the same TV and AVR, heh.
As I mentioned, connecting the GPU directly to the TV has that downside, as the TV's EDID is only able to provide the information regarding its own set of internal speakers - two. Therefore, on Windows, only Stereo will be available in Speaker Setup.
You can try to override the TV's EDID using the link that I provided, or go the AVR route, which is what I did. Not sure if it'll work for 1440p@60Hz, though. The B7 also supports 1080p@120Hz, without the need for an EDID override.
So I have the chance of getting the B8 55 inch brand new tomorrow for just under £1000 is it worth it or would I be better off paying more and getting the B9 or C9?.
Do you know if the Denon x2000 supports 1080/120hz? Seems like my avr is killing me, and I need to upgrade this thing lol.
I completely missed the part where you said that your AVR can't handle 4K@60Hz. It absolutely can - it does 4K passthrough. I had my PC connected to the same receiver for a few months in 2017, after I purchased my B7 (and before the Denon went out in a puff of smoke). Ran games in 4K@60Hz all the time. Can't remember if I tried 1080p@120Hz, but it should, theoretically, work, since it takes literally half the bandwidth of 4K@60Hz.
What that AVR won't do is run content encrypted with HDCP 2.2 (which was released in 2015). That includes most movies and TV shows in Blu-Ray discs and streamed over apps/streaming devices. Games should work fine, even for consoles. More info here.
What HDMI cables are you using? You need "Premium Certified" cables for 4K HDR. I can vouch for these, as they are the ones that I use and know that work with the same setup as yours. Connecting your GPU through the AVR, using those cables, shouldn't require any EDID overriding for 4K@60Hz and 1080p@120Hz.
You could do the alternative and send DD5.1 over Hdmi to the TV instead of PCM. It requires Dolby Digital Live encoding software.
I have now read this several times on here in the last few months and this is really starting to get concerning about Samsung. All these people bought their KS8000's just three years ago. Including one of my girlfriends who is extremely frugal and never shells out for tech stuff. I'll be crushed if the 4K TV I helped her shop for dies anytime soon.
I've always liked Samsung. They've historically been one of the best makers of consumer electronics. But between these testimonials about the KS8000, their sheer arrogance in the high-end TV market, and the intrusive software on my phone including the personal assistant Bixby (that you can't uninstall), I'm starting to edge towards never buying any Samsung products ever again.
I don't. No clue if 1440p/120 would work. As far as I know, no AVRs are capable of VRR.
Today I realized I crossed the 1 year mark with my C8 this month so I checked all color patterns and the TV is clean of any burn in. I have played a lot of games, watched a ton of movies, watched a lot of cable TV channels with logos, and watched a lot of different sports.
Some thoughts:
This has probably been the tech purchase I've been the most satisfied with in my life. Even after a year of use I still get wowed by the picture quality this set can produce.
Movies and HDR look incredible on this TV, its why I'm not surprised Samsung is rumored to be dropping out of high end LCDs completely (like Sony seems to be starting to do) in favor of their own OLEDs. For movies, OLED is the way to go hands down, only use case I would go LCD is if you will constantly view movies in a super bright room (even at night), which would be a shame since bright room is never a good environment to watch movies in no matter the TV.
I've done a lot of gaming too, but I would recommend you take a close look at your gaming patterns and decide if OLED is right for you. Long term multiplayer games seem to be the weak point of OLED, but for most single player and casual multiplayer experiences OLED is safe, and as a plus, offers the best picture quality possible.
Only negative I could think of is the way LG has handled firmware updates, but thankfully this new one seems to have fixed everything to the point where I'm probably never updating the TV again. LG has a lot to prove if I am to consider them for my next TV purchase in a few years.
Some thoughts:
This has probably been the tech purchase I've been the most satisfied with in my life. Even after a year of use I still get wowed by the picture quality this set can produce.
Movies and HDR look incredible on this TV, its why I'm not surprised Samsung is rumored to be dropping out of high end LCDs completely (like Sony seems to be starting to do) in favor of their own OLEDs. For movies, OLED is the way to go hands down, only use case I would go LCD is if you will constantly view movies in a super bright room (even at night), which would be a shame since bright room is never a good environment to watch movies in no matter the TV.
I've done a lot of gaming too, but I would recommend you take a close look at your gaming patterns and decide if OLED is right for you. Long term multiplayer games seem to be the weak point of OLED, but for most single player and casual multiplayer experiences OLED is safe, and as a plus, offers the best picture quality possible.
Only negative I could think of is the way LG has handled firmware updates, but thankfully this new one seems to have fixed everything to the point where I'm probably never updating the TV again. LG has a lot to prove if I am to consider them for my next TV purchase in a few years.
So will HDMI 2.1 be pretty much in place for next years new TV sets? Or is it already being rolled out in this years models? Haven't been keeping up on things like this but my ancient ass TV is probably going to die on me soon and I'd like to make as big a leap as possible when I finally do buy a new set sometime later this year or going into next. That and it sounds like Sony and LG have the best OLED sets on the market still?
Shit, I have a 4400 and am about to buy a C9. What do you gain setting X to 1440p though? I wasn't aware any Xbox games supported >60Hz, nevermind @ 1440p. Do they?
Big box retailers already offering pretty good discounts on the C9. I see Best Buy has the 55" model for $1599 on sale while the 65" model is $2499. You can still buy cheaper online but this is still a good deal if people want to buy in store. I hope the c10 and the c11 get discounted just as quickly.
Got my girlfriend a TCL R617, why does HDR/DV look so dim on Netflix?
KS8000 and X930E user here, can't say much of C9 but I am beyond satisfied with my recent purchase of B8.
A8F kinda dark in HDR. Doesn't have the same pop as the LG OLEDs I've seen. Also, not sure what the input lag is on my old Panasonic plasma but it's a lot more responsive. Game mode definitely helps but I can def feel the latency on base PS4 in online fps
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I've been using the Amazon 4k certified cable, I'll give it a shot tonight.
The PC only outputs PCM, same with Nintendo Switch.
You're connected by HDMI right? The encoder captures the PCM audio and converts it to DD(just like the PS4 does if you select DD) and you can send that over HDMI.
If one were to consider getting a LG OLED, C8 or C9?
The price difference is significant for the 65 inch versions. C9 has a few features the 8 doesn't have but truly how important are they? Also when looking at the 8 series in general, is the C8 the best or actually the E8?
The price difference is significant for the 65 inch versions. C9 has a few features the 8 doesn't have but truly how important are they? Also when looking at the 8 series in general, is the C8 the best or actually the E8?
If you are a gamer then the C9 is the better option. Auto low-latency mode, HDMI 2.1 support (so it should be future proof with new consoles) and a little bit brighter in HDR. The E8 basically just has better sound the C8 and that's it. No reason to spend more unless you really want the improved sound and aesthetic improvements.
C8 & E8 panel are the same. It will come down to the aesthetic. The E8 has a glass panel with a front facing speaker while the C8 doesn't have a glass panel and speaker fires down through the tv stand. If you have a separate sound bar/AV setup, I would go C8 for a cheaper price.
The 9 series is more future proof with HDMI 2.1 which should be used with the next generation of consoles.
Had the weirdest thing happen to me earlier this week with my TCL 6-series.
I've been unhappy with its HDR gaming performance from the start — the HDR Dark setting has perfect colors but looks way too dark, and the other settings have great brightness but exaggerated colors.
I was watching some random HDR content on the YT app and played Spider-Man afterward and it somehow looks a lot better on the HDR Dark setting? No idea what could have changed.
I've been unhappy with its HDR gaming performance from the start — the HDR Dark setting has perfect colors but looks way too dark, and the other settings have great brightness but exaggerated colors.
I was watching some random HDR content on the YT app and played Spider-Man afterward and it somehow looks a lot better on the HDR Dark setting? No idea what could have changed.
How big is the difference? I have a C8 and I'd pay maybe $500 tops to get VRR and a slightly better HDR. ALLM seems like the most useless feature ever to me.
Oh no, does that mean that my c8 may not be compatible with the next generation of consoles?
Hello TVEra...
I'm still not financially able to buy a 4K TV, but I still like to go check them out at Best Buy once in awhile.
I've been set on the Q90 for quite some time now, but the last time I was in store a sales person steered me away from it. I need your help to figure out if they're BS'ing me, or if I should go with the Sony 950G instead...
The feature they showed me that really "sold" me on the Sony involved multiple layers of motion in a scene from Maze runner. It seemed like some kind of train heist where you have a moving train, a moving background (opposite direction) and then people moving on top of the train.
On the Samsung, the results were kind of unsettling. The legs of the people moving on top of the train were almost in stop-motion.
On the Sony, the motion looked smooth. The sales person attributed this to a difference in their processors
With that... How true is his statement? Is the Sony better at handling motion like that in movies, or is it just a difference of needing to tweak some settings? I'd be happy if I can adjust that on the Samsung without using that unnatural setting that makes everything look like it's a 2x the speed.
I'm still not financially able to buy a 4K TV, but I still like to go check them out at Best Buy once in awhile.
I've been set on the Q90 for quite some time now, but the last time I was in store a sales person steered me away from it. I need your help to figure out if they're BS'ing me, or if I should go with the Sony 950G instead...
The feature they showed me that really "sold" me on the Sony involved multiple layers of motion in a scene from Maze runner. It seemed like some kind of train heist where you have a moving train, a moving background (opposite direction) and then people moving on top of the train.
On the Samsung, the results were kind of unsettling. The legs of the people moving on top of the train were almost in stop-motion.
On the Sony, the motion looked smooth. The sales person attributed this to a difference in their processors
With that... How true is his statement? Is the Sony better at handling motion like that in movies, or is it just a difference of needing to tweak some settings? I'd be happy if I can adjust that on the Samsung without using that unnatural setting that makes everything look like it's a 2x the speed.
ALLM?
Yeah VRR could be a feature that's potentially big for next gen, right? I have a Q9FN and VRR is lovely in Kingdom Hearts 3, but not a whole lot of other games yet benefit from it. Wonder if that changes with the next systems.
Auto low latency mode. Basically the TV detects when a game starts and switches to game mode. My XB1X and PC inputs are just always in game mode for the lowest lag so I don't know how useful the feature really is for me.
VRR is a killer feature no doubt, combined with the better HDR on the C9 it's a worthy upgrade but it really depends on how much of a price gap we're talking. By the time HDMI 2.1 is a standard you will be able to get a C9 or better (emphasis on probably better) for a lot cheaper.
I had a Sony 4K TV before, and I have a Q90R now. I turn most motion interpolation features off or way down. They don't look good to me on any TV. I actually don't notice much of a difference between my TV and the Sony.
Hmmm, I just checked for the standard prices (next week I'll go check and see how much discount I can get, which sometimes can be huge) but right now the 65 inch C9 is 2499, while the 65 C8 is 1895. The B8 is 1815.
If only just one year of use without burn in is cause for celebration, then yikes. I expect TVs to last a good 10-15 years. Let's see again in 5 years, yeah?
Keeping a TV for 10 years.
The difference in PQ is marginal to non-existent, especially to an untrained eye. It's really a matter of how important $300 is to you.
The difference in PQ is marginal to non-existent, especially to an untrained eye. It's really a matter of how important $300 is to you.
I guarantee you we have at least 10% of members on this board with 720p shitter LCDs. Some people just don't care about picture quality.Keeping a TV for 10 years.
Personally, I'm quite frustrated at the lack of a definitive display for someone who simply wants to enjoy all the best there is in tech right now: UHD, HDR, OLED, VRR, High Refresh Rate. There's simply nothing that works if you're trying to game on a PC with an NVIDIA graphics card. Granted, that's mostly because NVIDIA refuses (though AMD does it, too) to allow VRR through HDMI, which basically cuts all the best OLED TVs out of that.
Alienware will release an OLED 55" gaming monitor, except it doesn't really do HDR and doesn't even have HDMI 2.1, not to mention the insane $4K price.
Of course, one could buy one of those BFGD displays, except they cost even more and aren't even OLED panels.
Basically, there is no way to get it all in one package, even if you're willing to spend on it.
Alienware will release an OLED 55" gaming monitor, except it doesn't really do HDR and doesn't even have HDMI 2.1, not to mention the insane $4K price.
Of course, one could buy one of those BFGD displays, except they cost even more and aren't even OLED panels.
Basically, there is no way to get it all in one package, even if you're willing to spend on it.
God bless 'em! Hell, I keep a TV for 10 months and I'm in Best Buy scoping it out like:
Keeping a TV for 10 years.
I've had my Kuro Plasma for ten years and it has no signs of stopping through I may upgrade in the next month or two just to finally get 4K and HDR.
Ironically enough, I was also getting fed a bunch of "you can't use a plasma for gaming because of burn-in" at the time when I was trying to make my decision and to this day I've had no issues except for some minor image retention from the older Netflix app that quickly cleared up with the screen refresh function.
Overall though, I do get the impression that modern displays are more on the cell phone refresh cycle than the older tv refresh cycle timeline.