TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

[Boomchil]

Thanks for the pics for the C9 & the Q90R pics.

Do you have any opinions on the Black Frame Insertion? From reading the specs, this TV seems pretty much perfect and I'm thinking of saving for one and getting it when PS5 is out, but I saw some owners on AVS saying that at the last minute LG had to cut whatever update to the BFI system they had planned, so it has some kind of fault that also appeared in the 2018 models. To quote:

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BFI on it is atrocious to me, I cannot bear the flickering.

Someone on avsforums asked me to test it with 1440p 120Hz with my Xbox One X and the flickering is the same, so I'd say it's always 60Hz whatever the input refresh rate.

On the Q90R it was the same flickering. So if you badly want BFI, don't buy any of these sets ^^

 

[Spartancarver]

Re: OLED burn-in

I'm still trying to figure out whether OLED burn-in is an "if" or a "when" ... e.g. is it something that might happen to your panel, or something that will happen to all OLED panels if given enough time? My impression to this point has been that it's a "when" - it's an inherent issue with the technology - but advances in design are making it an "if" for some normal use cases.

Years ago I had a Sony DLP TV which I loved. Smooth image quality for all inputs, low lag, etc. It had a known issue with tint as the color wheel deteriorated, though. At first I thought it was an "if" and it seemed like I had won that gamble, but over time it became clear that it was an issue with all models (like the RRoD on the Xbox 360), and eventually both my DLP and my parents' DLP picked up a severe green tint. I would have kept that TV for many more years if it hadn't broken down.

So that's why I'm hesitant to buy an OLED. Even if they've minimzed the issue to where it won't show up for a few years, as long as it's a "when" I don't feel comfortable spending big bucks on it. It's another potential point of failure on top of all of the others that every TV has.

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It's most definitely an "if", not a "when", unless you keep it on a news channel all day with constant static images on the screen.

I've been gaming on mine since 2016, also watching shows from Hulu, Netflix, and HBO via PS4 app, all with 0 burn in.

 

[Kinggroin]

BFI on it is atrocious to me, I cannot bear the flickering.

Someone on avsforums asked me to test it with 1440p 120Hz with my Xbox One X and the flickering is the same, so I'd say it's always 60Hz whatever the input refresh rate.

On the Q90R it was the same flickering. So if you badly want BFI, don't buy any of these sets ^^

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Before getting my own set, I'd have said you were being dramatic. But nope. Even coming from a plasma set, the flickering is cartoon levels bad. White screens, prepare for a seizure

 

[formasymphonic]

BFI on it is atrocious to me, I cannot bear the flickering.

Someone on avsforums asked me to test it with 1440p 120Hz with my Xbox One X and the flickering is the same, so I'd say it's always 60Hz whatever the input refresh rate.

On the Q90R it was the same flickering. So if you badly want BFI, don't buy any of these sets ^^

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Damn, those were the two sets I was actually most considering funnily enough...

Thanks all the same -- I guess I'll just have to wait for one of the 2020 models, and buy them in early 2021. :(

 

[Boomchil]

On the other hand, why is BFI important to you ? I seriously struggle to find its benefits when activated, plus it really darkens the picture.

For movies, I find motion handling to be better on the C9 than on the Q90R. Sure there are artefacts on fast traveling, but there are mostly on the sides on the screen, whereas on the Q90R they were more distracting to me.

For games, I guess that if you can afford a C9/Q90 you can afford PS4 pro/Xbox One X/High End PC where 30fps games tends to get rarer. Plus the new gen is almost there and with VRR you won't have to resort to BFI to have smooth motion.

It's really an honest question : for everyone that want BFI, can you please explain why ? I feel I might miss something ^^

 

[Kinggroin]

So no one else with the chroma subsampling issue I mentioned earlier?

Could it be my HDMI cable?

 

[EvilBoris]

If you're displaying in 4K then you won't be able to select 10-bit 4:4:4 chroma because of bandwidth limitations. You'll be limited to either 10-bit/12-bit 4:2:2 or 8-bit 4:4:4.

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Have you got the other thing to enable deep colour/HDR for that HDMI port (on the TV)

 

[ss_lemonade]

Anyone from the Philippines? What would be the best budget 4k HDR set to get in that country? It's a bit frustrating shopping for TVs here because the TV model numbers in Asia don't exactly line up with what I find in review sites like rtings. For example, I've been looking for the TCL r617 or even the older p607 and could not find those TVs anywhere. I guess the closest one I found was a TCL p6us which I'm guessing is not related in any way to the p607 since I noticed it used Android TV and it didn't seem to support Dolby Vision (and was really cheap, which is strange since the high end sets are really pricey here).

 

[Akabeko]

I have ordered several displays (3-4) from them for friends and family members as I also have Samsung EPP through my work. Never had an issue and everything went through fine except for 1 back ordered that shipped about a week later than what was projected. Only time I have ever had an issue was when I ordered a duo charger where it kept getting pushed back. Other then that no issue.

Curious what display did you order? Could be a supply issue

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Finally got my order to go through. Changed my payment option to Paypal and somehow that worked. Not sure why they were cancelling the orders before.

Got a 65" Q90R for downstairs, and a 55" Q80R for upstairs.

 

[Kerotan]

Its not a real HDR TV so you won't really need full spec 2.0 HDMI.

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Thanks. It's just a stop gap tv for the girlfriends place. Crappy 10 year old LG 32" doesn't isn't enough.

We'll get a whopper $2,000 OLED in 2021/22.

 

[Kinggroin]

Have you got the other thing to enable deep colour/HDR for that HDMI port (on the TV)

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? Other thing?

 

[Kinggroin]

Got it working!

Switched HDMI ports on the videocard

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Brightness seems like a key factor too. I'd bet money that your friend with burn in generally runs his OLED light setting higher than you.

I also use my B7 as my only PC monitor and have no issues at like 5,000 hours, but I keep my OLED light level under 50 for SDR. OLED is worth the risk imo.

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Mate honestly it's actually the reverse. I run mine on full brightness full contrast because I can't block sunlight in the room I'm in! And nothing. And my mate is super pedantic since he came from plasma burn in, and he runs his with super careful settings and energy saver, and still got burn in. Most noticeable on his set that I saw was the chrome bar and the stuff on the bottom right on the pc tray

 

[MazeHaze]

Mate honestly it's actually the reverse. I run mine on full brightness full contrast because I can't block sunlight in the room I'm in! And nothing. And my mate is super pedantic since he came from plasma burn in, and he runs his with super careful settings and energy saver, and still got burn in. Most noticeable on his set that I saw was the chrome bar and the stuff on the bottom right on the pc tray

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Damn thats crazy! How long has he had it? I use chrome all the time on mine lmao

Edit:. Doesnt energy safer disable the auto 10 minute pixel refresher when you shut the TV off tho?

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Damn thats crazy! How long has he had it? I use chrome all the time on mine lmao

Edit:. Doesnt energy safer disable the auto 10 minute pixel refresher when you shut the TV off tho?

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Re:energy saver, not sure. We both bought it near the start of last year, he got his after seeing how good mine was XD

But im EXTREMELY satisfied that i seemingly can run the thing so bright, so often, so long, and suffer absolutely no burn in. But it sucks for him i guess. He said he wont go oled again. But ill ride the OLED train until the wheels fall off especially since im moving next year and the MAIN reason i was considering a QLEDw as because this room is so damn bright and its hard to block all the light, even with special curtains :/

 

[EvilBoris]

What would be the big benefit *for you* in going with a C9 over C8?

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VRR and more configuration available to take control of the display mapping on HDR content.

To be honest, I am leaning more towards the Q9FN or Q90r, as I do have a super bright room.
Vincent is doing a review of the 55inch model Q90r at the moment , but it will have to have some huge improvements to get me to pay almost double that price for it.

The other set I'm curious about is the Panasonic GZ2000 as that ticks lots of boxes and should achieve a higher APL than anything else on the market. But as I had burn in on my plasma, OLED still concerns me

 

[burgerdog]

https://www.rtings.com/tv/early-access/c9

Image retention 0.00%

:o

 

[Deleted member 4346]

The RTINGS early access does not list 4K120 as supported. Uh oh.

 

[EvilBoris]

The RTINGS early access does not list 4K120 as supported. Uh oh.

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There is nothing to test it with. No 4K 120hz sources

 

[MazeHaze]

Re:energy saver, not sure. We both bought it near the start of last year, he got his after seeing how good mine was XD

But im EXTREMELY satisfied that i seemingly can run the thing so bright, so often, so long, and suffer absolutely no burn in. But it sucks for him i guess. He said he wont go oled again. But ill ride the OLED train until the wheels fall off especially since im moving next year and the MAIN reason i was considering a QLEDw as because this room is so damn bright and its hard to block all the light, even with special curtains :/

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Yo me too, honestly if I got burn in I would still buy another one LOL.

 

[ascii42]

The RTINGS early access does not list 4K120 as supported. Uh oh.

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It doesn't say not supported either. That may just be missing from the review for now.

 

[Kyle Cross]

https://www.rtings.com/tv/early-access/c9

Image retention 0.00%

:o

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Wait, I thought the C9 was suppose to have 13ms input lag in Game Mode? Those numbers are showing 1080p 60hz and 4k 60hz to still have the same 21ms previous sets have. Only at 1080p 120hz and 1440p 120hz does it get lower, and they're still not 13ms.

 

[EvilBoris]

Wait, I thought the C9 was suppose to have 13ms input lag in Game Mode? Those numbers are showing 1080p 60hz and 4k 60hz to still have the same 21ms previous sets have. Only at 1080p 120hz and 1440p 120hz does it get lower, and they're still not 13ms.

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Either it's at 4K 120hz, which can't be measured

Or

Their figures also were making use of QFT (Quick frame trqnsport) which isn't supported by any devices

 

[Bumrush]

VRR and more configuration available to take control of the display mapping on HDR content.

To be honest, I am leaning more towards the Q9FN or Q90r, as I do have a super bright room.
Vincent is doing a review of the 55inch model Q90r at the moment , but it will have to have some huge improvements to get me to pay almost double that price for it.

The other set I'm curious about is the Panasonic GZ2000 as that ticks lots of boxes and should achieve a higher APL than anything else on the market. But as I had burn in on my plasma, OLED still concerns me

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I just can't get behind Samsung anymore but the Q90 does look like an incredible set. If you have a really bright room, it makes a ton of sense.

 

[tokkun]

On the other hand, why is BFI important to you ? I seriously struggle to find its benefits when activated, plus it really darkens the picture.

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BFI gives significantly higher motion resolution.

It is always a mystery to me why people are satisfied with a 4K resolution TV that is no better than 480p with a moving image. I guess if you are mostly watching 24 fps movies then fast motion is going to be blurry regardless, but if you are playing video games it is a pretty big difference. And it will only get more pronounced with 120 Hz support.

Plus the new gen is almost there and with VRR you won't have to resort to BFI to have smooth motion.

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BFI is not intended to help smoothness. It helps clarity. They solve different problems.

 

[Kinggroin]

BFI gives significantly higher motion resolution.

It is always a mystery to me why people are satisfied with a 4K resolution TV that is no better than 480p with a moving image. I guess if you are mostly watching 24 fps movies then fast motion is going to be blurry regardless, but if you are playing video games it is a pretty big difference. And it will only get more pronounced with 120 Hz support.



BFI is not intended to help smoothness. It helps clarity. They solve different problems.

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I'm with you, but the current BFI implementation on the 2018 sets leaves a lot to be desired on most things I've enabled it for. Way too flickery

 

[AuthenticM]

RU8000

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Sweet. It seems to be cheaper than the NU8000 was. Is it as good? How does it compare? It seems that rtings.com hasn't done a review for it. I'd like your opinion on it.

 

[brochiller]

Do most people buy calibration equipment here or do you just do what you can with your eye and AVS calibration videos?

 

[That Naive Cube!!]

Do most people buy calibration equipment here or do you just do what you can with your eye and AVS calibration videos?

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I just use rtings but dont mess with the color balance stuff

 

[brochiller]

I just use rtings but dont mess with the color balance stuff

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For color balance I just tweaked it using the AVS flashing color bars and the built in blue filter on my TV. Looks pretty good.

Didn't do anything like the setting rtings used for my TV. They seem to change a lot and I don't want to screw it up.

 

[Eggiem]

The RTINGS early access does not list 4K120 as supported. Uh oh.

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This grey uniformity test reveals all kinds of tints on the set. Uff.

 

[That Naive Cube!!]

For color balance I just tweaked it using the AVS flashing color bars and the built in blue filter on my TV. Looks pretty good.

Didn't do anything like the setting rtings used for my TV. They seem to change a lot and I don't want to screw it up.

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What are these AVS color bars?

 

[brochiller]

What are these AVS color bars?

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I downloaded the mp4 files from the AVS forums here. There are detailed instructions linked there too.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-...48496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html

I'm new at this but was able to follow their PDF manual pretty easily. I only used their basic tests. To do the color you either need a blue filter or a TV that is capable of only showing certain colors at any given time. My M series Vizio can do that. Not sure about other modern TV's.

 

[That Naive Cube!!]

I downloaded the mp4 files from the AVS forums here. There are detailed instructions linked there too.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-...48496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html

I'm new at this but was able to follow their PDF manual pretty easily. I only used their basic tests. To do the color you either need a blue filter or a TV that is capable of only showing certain colors at any given time. My M series Vizio can do that. Not sure about other modern TV's.

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Thanks for this

 

[MrBob]

Netflx finally updated their audio, anyone test this out yet??

 

[Deleted member 14649]

Wait, I thought the C9 was suppose to have 13ms input lag in Game Mode? Those numbers are showing 1080p 60hz and 4k 60hz to still have the same 21ms previous sets have. Only at 1080p 120hz and 1440p 120hz does it get lower, and they're still not 13ms.

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It was supposed to but it is another feature LG seemingly lied about. Along with the BFI......and the VRR.....

 

[Kyle Cross]

It was supposed to but it is another feature LG seemingly lied about. Along with the BFI......and the VRR.....

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I feel a bit better about not being able to afford a new set only a year after buying the B7. Definitely waiting.

 

[formasymphonic]

Is it just me or does the RTINGS C9 have a few higher numbers in their input lag testing than the C8 does?

EDIT: Generally the difference is higher but minimal - but this did stand out to me:
C8 - 4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 : 21.1 ms (C9 : 38.3 ms)
EDIT2: fixed in a software update now 13.3ms — good stuff!!

On the other hand, why is BFI important to you ? I seriously struggle to find its benefits when activated, plus it really darkens the picture.

For movies, I find motion handling to be better on the C9 than on the Q90R. Sure there are artefacts on fast traveling, but there are mostly on the sides on the screen, whereas on the Q90R they were more distracting to me.

For games, I guess that if you can afford a C9/Q90 you can afford PS4 pro/Xbox One X/High End PC where 30fps games tends to get rarer. Plus the new gen is almost there and with VRR you won't have to resort to BFI to have smooth motion.

It's really an honest question : for everyone that want BFI, can you please explain why ? I feel I might miss something ^^

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(sorry, I only just saw this)

For its that I've been looking at TVs for a while (particularly the higher end LGs 2017-2019 for a variety of reasons) and BFI seemed to be something that was mentioned as a consistent drawback of what are otherwise some of the best TVs you can get. I've spent most of this gen and the last gen gaming through a good quality, but relatively high-response time computer monitor and I figured I would treat myself with a good TV that wouldn't have the response times & input lag I've had. My main use would be next-gen gaming & 4K movies and I just felt like if I'm going to save up for a high quality TV, I'd want one that that doesn't have a flaw that would affect those use cases.

 

[Ebb]

Has anyone ever ordered anything from HDFury's website? After doing some more digging, I think I'm going to order an Integral 2 and trading in my linker to see if it fixes my issues.

Upon checkout it asks me to choose "Import Tax & Shipping Invoice Value" giving the options of: "use real value, and pay normal tax" or "use low value, pay less tax but no packaging" -- I'm not sure which of these make sense.

I live in the USA (NY in particular) and don't really care about the packaging (so long as it's not going to be damaged in transit), so my inclination is to choose the "low value" option. Does anyone have any experience/advice? The order will be $250.

 

[EvilBoris]

Has anyone ever ordered anything from HDFury's website? After doing some more digging, I think I'm going to order an Integral 2 and trading in my linker to see if it fixes my issues.

Upon checkout it asks me to choose "Import Tax & Shipping Invoice Value" giving the options of: "use real value, and pay normal tax" or "use low value, pay less tax but no packaging" -- I'm not sure which of these make sense.

I live in the USA (NY in particular) and don't really care about the packaging (so long as it's not going to be damaged in transit), so my inclination is to choose the "low value" option. Does anyone have any experience/advice? The order will be $250.

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I just googled import tax for New York, it looks like you'd pay just under 5% of the value in taxes.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of handling charge from the courier too, that's certainly how it is in the UK.

They give you the option to dodge them essentially, however I it's more problematic if the item gets lost or if they question the value

 

[guitarguy316]

This grey uniformity test reveals all kinds of tints on the set. Uff.

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They need to start doing 100% white shots. Maybe it's me but I see yellow but not red like I've seen on other 65" sets.

 

[TheModestGun]

Is it just me or does the RTINGS C9 have a few higher numbers in their input lag testing than the C8 does?

EDIT: Generally the difference is higher but minimal - but this did stand out to me:
C8 - 4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 : 21.1 ms (C9 : 38.3 ms)



(sorry, I only just saw this)

For its that I've been looking at TVs for a while (particularly the higher end LGs 2017-2019 for a variety of reasons) and BFI seemed to be something that was mentioned as a consistent drawback of what are otherwise some of the best TVs you can get. I've spent most of this gen and the last gen gaming through a good quality, but relatively high-response time computer monitor and I figured I would treat myself with a good TV that wouldn't have the response times & input lag I've had. My main use would be next-gen gaming & 4K movies and I just felt like if I'm going to save up for a high quality TV, I'd want one that that doesn't have a flaw that would affect those use cases.

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You really aren't going to miss out on much of anything by not wanting to use BFI on one of these OLED TV's honestly. As someone who messed around with it on my X900E. The motion clarity on my B8 with BFI off is better than my x900E with BFI on.

Every TV has a tradeoff, but honestly in my experience, BFI is the least important thing to write a TV off for. Especially if its motion clarity is already better than most.

 

[EvilBoris]

BFI is quickly becoming less compelling, because it's only suitable for SDR content. It crippled HDR

 

[FuturaBold]

I've been replaying Gears 4 since I've had my C9 and I must say the HDR is very impressive. Perhaps one of the best implementation of HDR this gen.
I'm sold on the pixel level light control on OLEDs. FYI: Rtings C9 review is due out today.

 

[thuway]

I've been replaying Gears 4 since I've had my C9 and I must say the HDR is very impressive. Perhaps one of the best implementation of HDR this gen.
I'm sold on the pixel level light control on OLEDs. FYI: Rtings C9 review is due out today.

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What is pixel level light control? Congrats on the C9!

If you own a PS4 try out shadow of the Collosus or days gone! And on the Xbox - sea of Thieves looks amazing

 

[DrFunk]

 

[AtomicShroom]

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled

The full review is out!

 

[Sanctuary]

For color balance I just tweaked it using the AVS flashing color bars and the built in blue filter on my TV. Looks pretty good.

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How would that even work if your TV isn't even calibrated to begin with? You'd just be trying to match the blue from the bars to the blue on your set, but both would still be displaying from an uncalibrated set. Normally when adjusting with color slides, you would use an external filter, not one from the TV, unless it's guaranteed to be accurate no matter what. Even that's not really going to get you an accurate adjustment, but it might be able to at least somewhat correct a picture that seems really off out of the box for whatever reason.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Wait, I thought the C9 was suppose to have 13ms input lag in Game Mode? Those numbers are showing 1080p 60hz and 4k 60hz to still have the same 21ms previous sets have. Only at 1080p 120hz and 1440p 120hz does it get lower, and they're still not 13ms.

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Yeah what the hell is this? This is highly disappointing. I was so looking forward to this. :(

I haven't really been keeping up with the tech, but why would one run the TV at 60hz when it can run at 120hz with less input lag? Or is that dictated by the content? Like, for example, running a PS4 game will not be possible in the 120hz mode because it forces 60hz or something? Can someone educate me?

Either it's at 4K 120hz, which can't be measured

Or

Their figures also were making use of QFT (Quick frame trqnsport) which isn't supported by any devices

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Still would suck though, since almost nothing supports this at this time. The Samsung Q90R (https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q90-q90r ) is able to achieve much lower input lag (between 6ms and 15ms) on all equivalent display modes.

 

[gabdeg]

Those input lag numbers really aren't good compared to Samsungs offerings. What's up with the increase in lag for 4:4:4? Couple that with the current HDMI 2.1 feature uncertainty, I think I'll just wait for next years models.

It seems like LG relies too much on HDMI 2.1 as a unique selling point this year. I would've expected other improvements.