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Tuvix. *Spoilers*

Deleted member 12790

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Janeway totally murdered Tuvix. I don't see how people can argue it any other way than she murdered him in cold blood. This dude:

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She murdered him while he begged for his life, explaining that he was his own life form, with his own feelings, and didn't want to be ended. She still murdered him.

His murder is indefensible. I've seen people try to justify it by saying it had to happen to save Neelix, which I say is precisely the reason why Tuvix's death was so especially awful. They had Neelix defeated, he existed no more, and they chose to resurrect him, using a virgin sacrifice like primitive man.

Captain Janeway is a murderer.
 
Shelbyville Milhouse

Shelbyville Milhouse

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Oct 25, 2017
22,378
His murder is indefensible. I've seen people try to justify it by saying it had to happen to save Neelix, which I say is precisely the reason why Tuvix's death was so especially awful. They had Neelix defeated, he existed no more, and they chose to resurrect him, using a virgin sacrifice like primitive man.
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What do you mean they had Neelix defeated? Didn't him and that Vulcan merge?
Also fuck Tuvix, he sucks
 
Volimar

Volimar

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Oct 25, 2017
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Tuvix did suck, but yeah he was a unique life form and got ganked. I'm glad though, I liked both characters better, though Neelix got annoying now and then.
 
DrForester

DrForester

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Oct 25, 2017
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I really appreciate that the episode didn't try to come up with an easy answer.

But yeah, she totally murdered him, and the entire crew ignored his pleas to live.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
42,949
The greatest scene in Star Trek history was that brief moment when you believed Tuvok might've choked Neelix to death.
 

B.K.

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Oct 31, 2017
17,020
Spock always said the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Voyager was better off with Tuvok and Neelix as two people, so Tuvix had to die.
 
Htown

Htown

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Oct 25, 2017
11,318
The Doctor even refused to do the procedure, but Janeway went ahead and did it herself anyway
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

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B.K. said:
Spock always said the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
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That's precisely why murdering Tuvix to save Tuvok is the wrong choice. Saving Tuvok is cool, but it comes at the expense of great suffering to the entire galaxy in the resurrection of Neelix.

Tuvix was willing to be the Star Trek equivalent of Naruto, containing the horror that was Neelix within him for the betterment of the entire universe.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,020
DrForester said:
I really appreciate that the episode didn't try to come up with an easy answer.

But yeah, she totally murdered him, and the entire crew ignored his pleas to live.
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Janeway did nothing wrong! Janeway will always be the best captain.

Krejlooc said:
That's precisely why murdering Tuvix to save Tuvok is the wrong choice. Saving Tuvok is cool, but it comes at the expense of great suffering to the entire galaxy in the resurrection of Neelix.
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But Neelix is one of the best characters in the franchise. He's annoying in the beginning with his creepy obsession of Kes, but he gets a lot better after she's gone.
 
Catsygreen

Catsygreen

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Nov 1, 2017
1,362
To be honest, this episode doesn't make any sense.
It's on the same "scientific" level as Treshold. Tuvok and Neelix died that day, and even if they had returned to their original condition, they should have had some sort of aftereffects.
 
Kernel

Kernel

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Oct 25, 2017
19,859
Voyager killed Star Trek so anything Janeway did is kind of moot.

They killed the Borg (as a credible threat) as well which was the biggest sin.
 
Rodney McKay

Rodney McKay

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Oct 26, 2017
12,186
Tuvok and Neelix were there first and transformed against their will, so I say they get dibs to have their single individual bodies/minds back.
The Borg collective is technically a life form, but people have no problem with "freeing" people from the unified existence. Just because Tuvix was a cool guy and his creation was an accident doesn't make it any less fucked up for Neelix and Tuvok.


Remember the episode where Neelix got his organs teleported out by those aliens with Space Leprosy?
That was pretty fucked up. Neelix does not have the best of luck when it comes to transporter tech.
Catsygreen said:
To be honest, this episode doesn't make any sense.
It's on the same "scientific" level as Treshold. Tuvok and Neelix died that day, and even if they had returned to their original condition, they should have had some sort of aftereffects.
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Techincally I think all teleporters "kill" the person teleporting and just make a copy of them somewhere else, so bringing back Tuvok and Neelix is no different than any normal teleportation.
 
StallionDan

StallionDan

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Oct 25, 2017
7,705
Tuvix was two people suffering from a medical condition.

Seperating them was the cure.

"But Tuvix said he didn't want to die" you say? Well Tuvix argues that Neelix and Tuvok are part of him and he feels as they do, but when seperated neither wanted to be rejoined. So either Tuvix was lying and letting two innocent people be trapped merged together against their will, or becoming Tuvix made him mentally ill in which case seperation was an even bigger medical need.


For real though Kes was the real bitch, Tuvix went to her as his only hope and instead Kes ran to Janeway and threw him under the bus because she personally wanted Neelix back. That's what really pushed Janeway to seperate him.
 
HaL64

HaL64

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Nov 3, 2017
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The worst part is we will never seen that amazing uniform design again.
The Heisenberge compensators really got creative with that molecular reassembly.
 
KarmaCow

KarmaCow

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Oct 25, 2017
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Low bar I know but Neelix is in the top 3 of best characters in Voyager. His relationship with Tuvok is great.
 
Volimar

Volimar

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It has to be said, that once they got Neelix off the ship they made it home the rest of way in record time. Now I'm not saying he motivated them to get as far from him as possible, but I'm not not saying it either.
 
StallionDan

StallionDan

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Oct 25, 2017
7,705
Kernel said:
Voyager killed Star Trek so anything Janeway did is kind of moot.

They killed the Borg (as a credible threat) as well which was the biggest sin.
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For all the crap Voyager gets about defanging the Borg there is only one scene this actually happens in all seven seasons. All other times they have very reasonable reasons for surviving.
 
gforguava

gforguava

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Oct 25, 2017
4,694
The fact that Neelix is a horribly annoying character is actually completely irrelevant and just muddies the crime being committed.

Even if Tuvix was the mix of the most beloved of Trek-people, pick your favorites even, the act is still unconscionable and the fact that Voyager ignores it is disgusting. Having Janeway do it isn't a problem, ignoring the severity of her actions is.

Gods, Voyager is such trash.
 

QuigleyMcShine

Member
Jan 29, 2018
9,387
Man, like a lot on Voyager, Tuvok was a really underserved character. An older Vulcan who had been in-and-out of Starfleet over 80 years, with kids and a wife at home, and they did nothing with him. What a shame.
 

B.K.

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Oct 31, 2017
17,020
Volimar said:
It has to be said, that once they got Neelix off the ship they made it home the rest of way in record time. Now I'm not saying he motivated them to get as far from him as possible, but I'm not not saying it either.
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It always bothered me how they managed to find some random Talaxians to leave him with. They were 40,000+ light years from where they started in season one when they found Neelix. How the hell did those Talaxians get all the way out there?
 
Officer Big Mac

Officer Big Mac

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Oct 28, 2017
22,596
It's not like Janeway didnt feel the ethical lines she was crossing. This was her In the pale moonlight moment. She had the means to bring back two crew members who were vital to the operation of the ship. Its valid to argue her personal feelings towards Tuvok were at work in the decision too.

Tuvix said Tuvok and Neelix wanted to remain Tuvix but neither of them were there to say so. Tuvix understandably was operating out of self preservation. Janeway knew her ship and crew were better off with Neelix and Tuvok restored. And neither held the decision against her.

And her decision nearly broke her. She walks out of sickbay and leans against the bulkhead like she got kicked in the gut and tries to keep herself together.

So maybe her ethics were dubious but maybe she did the wrong thing for the right reason. The fact it's not so clear cut makes it compelling storytelling. Something Voyager rarely ever saw.
 
Eoin

Eoin

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Oct 27, 2017
7,103
DrForester said:
I really appreciate that the episode didn't try to come up with an easy answer.

But yeah, she totally murdered him, and the entire crew ignored his pleas to live.
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Yeah, for all that the episode is really quite a troubling one, they did at least avoid any of the easy outs. They could have had Tuvix agree to the separation, or they could have given him a medical condition that would have resulted in his death if he wasn't separated, or they could have done something sciency with the transporters and created three people and then give Tuvix one of their infinite shuttles so he could go his own way, but they stuck with it and forced a choice on Janeway. That's undermined a bit, however, by the fact that like so many of the choices in Voyager, it has no out-of-episode consequences.
 
Volimar

Volimar

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QuigleyMcShine said:
Man, like a lot on Voyager, Tuvok was a really underserved character. An older Vulcan who had been in-and-out of Starfleet over 80 years, with kids and a wife at home, and they did nothing with him. What a shame.
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I agree and I love Tim Russ and his continued devotion to fan projects.
 
Bizazedo

Bizazedo

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Oct 28, 2017
2,608
19thCenturyFox said:
Yeah get him a cameo like Hugh, Doctor Maddox and Icheb! Or perhaps more than a cameo like Data?
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I see their common fates in what you did there and approve.

***

Yes, Janeway is a murderer. Neelix isn't ACTUALLY that bad, but yes....Tuvix was murdered.

And being transported is also being murdered. Star Trek is, like most socialist projects, evil when you look underneath the surface.

/s
 
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