First time I'm hearing this. As I have some Alevi friends who hate erdo are supporting the army and Ataturk.
The Kurds have never done any harm to any Armenian not sure why you would say that?
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Turkish strikes on Kurdish areas in Syria have already begun.
- Thread starter Saya
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First time I'm hearing this. As I have some Alevi friends who hate erdo are supporting the army and Ataturk.
The Kurds have never done any harm to any Armenian not sure why you would say that?
They did. Enver Pasha enlisted many Kurdish tribal clans to assist Hamidian Brigade during the events of 1915. They were important part of the irregular army who were responsible for the genocide. And unlike Sunni Turks, they recognize this.
pri? what kind of source is that.
I don't trust every website nor source. In these day and age everyone can setup a website and spread stuff from their basement.
I looked up and that Hamidian Brigade had also Circassians, Turkmen and some other ethnities.
Clowns already responded, but Public Radio International is absolutely a reliable source.
Last time i looked up at TRT World they also had a wiki page and office.
But yeah I leave that to you. I heard it for the first time.
You, like many other people here, seem to believe hatred of the PKK (and hence, all other Kurds in the region) is an Erdoğan thing.
It is not.
If you read the opinion piece, it's about how USA funded the PKK and wants to establish Kurdistan and about how Erdoğan enabled it.
The point it's making is that Erdoğan didn't do enough to stop the Kurds. That's it.
The smallest amount of self-reflection about PKK extremism, the slightest expression of doubt as to Turkish objectives with the operation, the mildest insinuation that this might constitute ethnic cleansing (or, if terrorism/only targeting terrorism claims are false, even genocide), would see him put behind bars in seconds.
The last sentences say it all really:
"All said, I like this Trump guy. No amount of gibberish about American involvement with the Kurds could have been as clear as his simple confession!"
They work with the BBC the produce The World, which you'll notice is hosted on NPR. They're not some organization that popped up last week.
Once again, america is responsible for the death of civilians in the middle east.
User Banned (Permanent): Endorsing ethnic cleansing, spreading propaganda
Even those who hate erdogan, like me, support this operation. Because it was necessary. The Turkish army is only cleaning up fucking terrorist shits and opening a clean zone for living refugees (3.5M) in Turkey. The new houses, living zones will build with goverment support for refugees after the region is cleared if the operation succeeds or fucking trump doesn't mess something up. That's the main goal. Bad thing is... erdogan wants to use that operation for the upcoming election campaign.
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Are you sure you're anti erdo? I think some people here are not and will not understand what you mean. They will announce you a Kurd-hater.
Elections? Aren't they in 2023 and it's like 4 years off? Imamoglou is gonna win no matter what.
It has to be with archives and historians. Like I said I'm not going to say that you're wrong in this.
so to be reliable you need to be based in the states? I try to understand your logic as I stated before I use lots of sources and friends from oversea and I trust AA and TRT World as well which you might not trust as source. I followed the conversations in here and have seen people dismissing some sources as they're not coming from their own source.
Let them have their country why should anyone be against it? Like the Fryslan people in The Netherlands and the basque they all deserve their own country.
Millions of Kurds live in Turkey and none of these people are terrorists. Only pkk and ypg.
If Turkey hadn't repressed Kurds into extremism and into becoming the PKK, none of this would have happened. Hell.
Now, after mutual civilian deaths, both sides hate each other murderously, and it won't disappear.
Now, after mutual civilian deaths, both sides hate each other murderously, and it won't disappear.
This is what I mean. Hatred of the PKK (and hence of all Kurdish military) transcends the political spectrum in Turkey, which some posters here seemingly refuse to understand.
The countries whose lands would become Kurdistan would be, for obvious reasons. (I'm not saying I agree.)
How about the Kurds outside Turkey?
Are you aware that there are many people already living in the "safe zone" who are not terrorists?
Rojava is the closest there's ever been to an autonomous Kurdistan and Turkish imperialism cannot allow it.
Famous United States based media organization British Broadcasting Corporation.
I was addressing that they are in fact a legitimate news outlet and have a history of being such. I can't help that you're distrustful of them for whatever reason.
I've seen Joker sorry to be offtopic so that's why I can't trust anyone... named clown...
I support Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's party (CHP). Ekrem Imamoglu took Istanbul and caused great damage to erdogan's party. Now erdogan wants to use this operation to repair the damage he took, because the refugees he's taking in are being talked about all over the country, and there's been a lot of complaints. He wants to send them all back to the cleared area. He's main goal is using that operation his own benefit in the 2023 elections. Of course he will fail, people don't eat his tricks anymore.
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Turkey do not have a Kurdish terrorism problem, you need to see this without wearing right wing propaganda glasses. There are no Kurdish terrorism even Turkish government including Erdogan and MHP knows that. You can't visit fucking "terrorist leader" and negotiate if you label him a "terrorist leader". They don't and they're playing with Turkish folk who are very sensitive about patriotic subjects. Menderes did that, Demirel did that, Evren did that, Erbakan did that and now Erdogan doing this and people are eating up the propaganda until its last crumbs. All that mattered was demonizing left wing politics and socialism and they succeeded greatly.
Why do you think there was never a PKK attack during Ozal's reign? Or why did Ozal suddenly drop dead while this magical peace time was going on? And why nobody even tried to end PKK after his death but just months after left wing leader Ecevit elected as prime minister, Ocalan was arrested instantly? And why after a long peaceful period did PKK start detonating bombs just after Erdogan lost the senate majority in 2015 elections? You need to see everything clearly. Stop getting fed by mainstream media, especially by those who close to people who're running the country. PKK is not a terroirst organization, it's just the propaganda machine created by deep state of Turkey. All this is a dirty stage play, a really believable one. You'd be surprised if you found out how much comfort Abdullah Ocalan lives in his "prison cell".
Just on cnn, we have developed sanctions, everyone take note, these are powerful sanctions...
Also we will not be enforcing said sanctions at this time.
But we did develop sanctions.
Also Trump says this isn't his fault and things are very complicated
Fucking clown show
Also we will not be enforcing said sanctions at this time.
But we did develop sanctions.
Also Trump says this isn't his fault and things are very complicated
Fucking clown show
Doesnt Ocalan still write weekly opinion pieces on feminism and Kurdish socialist ideology? I know he did for a time, which is bonkers considering hes living on a prison island
...
I'm lost a bit mindfuck with the stuff I read.
No terrorism in turkey?
I think we have seen in history that special agencies or higher up sometimes visit terrorist leaders just to negoatiate when things are not going according to plan.
The PKK is established in 1978 Erdogan wasn't there then as far as I know. As far as I know a coup happened in the 80s and turkish politics where crap back then.
Left wing was done after Ataturk died. May his soul rest in peace. When Menderes was in charge the pkk wasn't even established.
You seem to know a lot stuff, but change it to your perspective. Even though we're on the same track for the Kurds to have their own country I don't get what you mean with some stuff. Are you against Ataturk?
Turkey had problems after the coup in the 80s like I said the economy was hit hard and then they got the 94 crisis no one was able to do anything. Jitem was established not sure if you know who they where to stop the protests, but that was a too hardcore organisation which is never accepted by the goverment.
Ocalan got arrested, because America gave the greenlight. Or else turkey could have never captured him. America got Gulen in exchange. I think we're both looking at things from a different perspective and this thread was supposed to be about the strikes happening now and not ten to 40 years ago.
Ocalan lives like a King, because if anything happens to him the world will punish the turks for that with economical sanctions and we clearly see that the turkish economic is struggling.
He writes sometimes. Time to time. He even asked one day before election the kurds to vote for erdogan... yep true story.
Ok, I should number my answers:
1- No. If you brand some organization as terrorist, you cannot negotiate with them. Turkish Constitution bans this. In fact constitutions all over the world bans this. CHP has been vocally protesting this but, you know, nobody in Turkey hears them.
2- PKK established with a funding from Turkish deep state, what Erdogan used to name "Ergenekon". During the 80s they were very active and that help Evren to "save" people from communism. PKK was "evil babykiller commies" back then, government propaganda worked flawlessly (don't forget Turkey did not have private Radio or TV channels then). In 1993 it was uncovered that Turkish government actually aided PKK by selling guns and allowing their illegal drug trade via JITEM. People responsible, Cem Ersever and Esref Bitlis were assassinated afterwards (read about this whole thing, it's very eyeopening). And somehow people forgot about this. Graywolves also assassinated Ugur Mumcu who was trying to uncover all of this dirty shit.
3- Ataturk actually would have condemned this operation if he was alive. He himself was against a military operation to North Iraq, despite right wing politicians pressured him to bring Turkish speaking cities of Mosul and Kirkuk to Turkey (he did bring Hatay though, peacefully, but that was for removing Nazis from the area)
6- Menderes's thing was against christians, not Kurds. He gave them a life of hell for supporting CHP. Very similar to what Erdogan is doing today.
5- No, you couldn't have been more wrong, Ocalan arrest had nothing to do with USA. Tansu Ciller, prime minister before Ecevit refused to issue a Red Notice from Interpol to arrest Ocalan, as if she was trying to protect him. One of the first things Ecevit did after getting elected is to issue the notice. He was arrested roughly 4 months after Ecevit's election. Ciller and her party DYP were deep inside this huge corruption. Ecevit revealed every bit of this JITEM scandal during his tenure.
6- This is part you're most delusional; sanctions? Really? For Ocalan? No one gives a shit about Ocalan. Until Erdogan was cleared to become a prime minister he was in a 10 feet square cell. Erdogan is the one who's been giving him a king's life. "Project Kurdish Expansion" is my ass. He's using him and PKK just like Evren did, a both sided propaganda for securing votes of both patriotic Turks and troubled Kurdish people. And burying CHP and left politics to deep in the ground. By the looks of it, he's crazy successful.
Look, you can love your country, support your military, these are totally normal things. But never, NEVER defend and vouch for any politician in Turkey. And blame first and foremost them for every shit happens in the country. It's people who ran that country who slays both innocent Turkish soldiers and Kurdish folk, not some super invincible terrorist organization that could not be defeated in 40 years.
I wonder when the executions start.. LOL at sticks and stones.
Trump's been getting Americans killed since taken office.
He won't care that it's military forces, just like he didn't care before.
You have watched too much deep state videos. La LI Lu Le Lo. If you're believing everything you say then you must believe all other conspiracy theories too.
So if you where president of turkey what should they do tell me your point.
Do turkish people (regular citizens) believe in the deep state?
Former prime minister Bülent Ecevit formally acknowledged them in 1977 and was victim of an assassination attempt later on. He called them counter guerilla in the public.
Are turkish government officials claiming that the deep state has been destroyed with the ergenekon arrests?
I never heard about them funding PKK (though I have heard they supplied them with weapons in the 80s though), do you have any reputable information about it?
You can pm me if you want.
Turkey and Qatar are the only countries who label YPG as a terrorist organization. Every other country in the world does not.
Also rumors going around that Assad forces near Al-Bukamal (near the Iraqi border, the only land route from Iran into Syrian government controlled areas) were targeted by Coalition forces.
Some of the things he claims are far fetched and sound like conspiracy theories but turkish officials have acknowledged a deep state before, ergenekon was a group they arrested claiming they were members of the deep state so it's not just a conspiracy theory with zero basis.
I would (honestly) love to read up on his sources if he has any.
If some person would knew everything about a countries deep state no matter where they are from.
1 that person would be killed
2 that person would be killed
3 same as above.
They wanted to take out Ecevit and that was not the deep state cause he invaded Cyprus. Volta is turning things to his own will. Which is far dangerous then Erdo.
Good job completely ignoring the fact that this operation also means that easily 1mil+ people, mostly Kurds, will be forced to flee their homes with those Arab refugees then being settled there. What Turkey is doing is nothing short of ethnic cleansing and you know it.
Non-threatening places that cleared from armed pkk/ypg terrorist dogs. So, tons of syrian refugees can live again on their former places if that operation succeeds. The whole area was taken from them, a few of them stayed there under fucking terrorists control. erdogan wants to send the syrians back to win damn elections again. He was badly damaged against CHP party because of that refugee problem.
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Do you anticipate that the Turkish occupation will be welcomed by the people living in the region?
None of those are conspiracy theories, both Yilmaz and Ecevit acknowledged that the JITEM exist. That's it, there are no secrets beyond JITEM.
BTW, your whole "everyone wants Turkey, everyone wants to destroy Turkey" paranoia is the actual conspiracy thing. No, US does not want to do anything with Turkey, no, nobody abroad funds PKK. There's no evidence of a global plot to exterminate Turkish state, it's just classic Turkish coffee shop talk, people despise US in Turkey so it's natural such things are on people's minds. They buy their guns just like any other rebel group from Russian gunmakers (AK-47 mostly, Kurds call it "Keles") and the money they have they earn it illegally by selling drugs and smuggling. Yes, they are smugglers and they always admit that. A petty criminal organization, that's all.
The US funds YPG against ISIL though, so does Russia. They are not recognized as terrorist organization by anyone but Turkey and Qatar.
Well, there's no "regular" Turkish citizens, as the country is super polarized right now. But as I said before, there are no secrets anymore, everything is in broad daylight. Those who can see their countries past know all of this, those who can't don't care.
Ecevit and Ozal were the only ones outside all of these bullshit and they were not afraid to talk about it. Ozal was assassinated successfully and Ecevit barely escaped. Long story short, just like every European country in that time, Turkey was a war zone against communism and counter-guerilla and PKK were just two of the scapegoats.
But nobody knows if they're really gone as Erdogan only went after those who can pose danger against him; Staunch secularists, especially ex-Army officers. He had to release them as his action started to draw parallel against theirs. Every doctrine he has, he inherited from Kenan Evren, so nothing has really changed. Erdogan also does what he does in secrecy, dependent of Turkish Intelligence all the time, there's no clarity in his actions. 2015 elections where PKK allegedly ended ceasefire just because AKP lost majority made millions think deep state is still active as ever.
And no! I do not have any "sources" on this, I'd be in prison already if I did. These are common knowledge in Turkey and it's really unhealthy to dig deep about it. Google is your friend. As I said before, none of these are secrets anymore. There are lots of articles on the internet details this (stay away from biased ones though, graywolves love to put their spin on everything), even Wikipedia article could give couple of ideas.