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skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,443
"the order doesn't actually do anything" assumes the Commerce secretary will choose not to ban anything, which seems uhhhhh optimistic
right. like, it might not do anything this very second but I imagine the suits at Riot, etc. aren't just sitting around joking about Trump's do-nothing order. you gotta distinguish between this sort of order, which invokes specific statutes and authorities delegating details TBA by the commerce secretary, with typical "oh it's nothing" EO that's just like "I hereby direct agency X to develop a plan to prioritize the promotion of religious freedom" or whatever.
 

DrFunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,000
LMAO this doesn't mean anything but I'm so curious to see that Tim Sweeny says about it
 

pirata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,416
say goodbye to videogames folks, its been a good ride

Retro gaming shall be the only gaming...

Seriously, though, who knows how this is going to turn out. But people are still going to want to play all the video games, especially during lockdown. People would be willing to break the law to get around the ban if it happened.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
There is literally zero scoping right now. Could it become something? Yes, it could, but right now, it's just an overbroad statement without any actual specifics.

Is it bad? Absolutely. But right now it's part of continued political theater. The specifics of it are what may or may not give it teeth.

Trump can stomp all over soybean farmers because they don't have the political power to do something about it. As he starts involving higher profile and bigger money players, we'll see if these things stick.
It's an executive order that has already gone through all the motions to become official. This isn't a trump tweet we're talking about here. Trump's dumb but the white house legal team is extremely smart and they're not doing this without their ducks in a row.
 
Jun 20, 2019
2,638
Yeah, it's extremely ignorant about how these things work to hang anything on that statement.

That statement's not an out, that's literally how every executive order works. The intent of the order is clear as day and it's the commerce secretary's duty to carry out that order. The secretary could technically argue it's not lawful to do anything, but there's very little chance they'd do this order in the first place without the secretary being on board.
Right. Every company that has any business with TenCent is screaming demands at their corporate lawyers right now, at 11:30pm, to get clarification on this ASAP. No one with actual stake in this is treating this as a nothingburger.
 

eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
It's an executive order that has already gone through all the motions to become official. This isn't a trump tweet we're talking about here. Trump's dumb but the white house legal team is extremely smart and they're not doing this without their ducks in a row.
tell that to the daca resind order, they arent compatent, but it still can be dangrous.
 

Todesritter74

Member
Oct 30, 2017
327
It's an executive order that has already gone through all the motions to become official. This isn't a trump tweet we're talking about here. Trump's dumb but the white house legal team is extremely smart and they're not doing this without their ducks in a row.
Ehhhhh... the admin's performance in the courts has not been good. They've had one of the lowest success rates at the Supreme Court in the last 100 years and lower courts have overturned Executive Orders that the WH then had to abandon or rewrite.
 

T0kenAussie

Banned
Jan 15, 2020
5,126
That's gonna fuck up the talks of Tencent buying Leyou Technologies and that might cause Sony to jump in and buy them

And you know he's doing this since Orangeman is pissed at TikTok for ruining his Tulsa rally
Naw there's a bunch of china hawks and war mongers in his admin agitating for a fight with someone so they can retain power
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,994
It's an executive order that has already gone through all the motions to become official. This isn't a trump tweet we're talking about here. Trump's dumb but the white house legal team is extremely smart and they're not doing this without their ducks in a row.

Executive order are a very powerful thing, but this administration has been near constant in its attempts at overreach and I guarantee there are going to be dozens of challenges to this probably before the weekend is through.

It should not be treated flippantly, but it's also not a done deal.
 
Jun 20, 2019
2,638
US banking law, particularly after 9/11, gives the President huge latitude and enormous powers to bring to bear on foreign companies (and governments).
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,254
the Netherlands


Video game companies owned by Tencent will NOT be affected by this executive order! White House official confirmed to the LA Times that the EO only blocks transactions related to WeChat So Riot Games (League of Legends), Epic Games (Fortnite), et al are safe (pending updates)

This was pretty much impossible to tell from the EO itself—I also had a moment that they were roping in Riot et al when I first read it—but "we just mean WeChat" is the WH line for tonight. But banning all transactions on/with WeChat alone is still WILD.
 
Oct 31, 2017
301
Isn't Trump just basically pissing off his own base at the same time.
Fortnite should release a limited edition skin just a few days before the ban comes into play somehow trolling this ban
 
Jun 20, 2019
2,638
WeChat is the de facto payment system throughout most of China's first-tier and second-tier cities, by the way. It isn't just a social media platform, it has characteristics of a Visa/MasterCard. Even if this is "just" WeChat it would cause severe problems for any US company selling goods and services to Chinese consumers, not to mention any US citizens trying to pay for anything while visiting China.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,443
Sure they can't unilaterally retroactively change the law, but that doesn't make them incompatent. And when it comes to china commerce they've been extremely successful at finding ways to make these orders lawful.
i think that's largely a reflection of the very broad deference given to the executive branch on matters of "national security" and not because they are expert lawyers. the admin legal team is sloppy AF and they've been putting out badly-worded and poorly thought through EOs since day one. they had to revise the muslim ban 3 times after the first version was rushed out and caused absolute chaos, they lost DACA on procedural grounds, they lost the census citizenship case on procedural grounds, etc.
 

JustinBailey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
User Banned (2 months): Xenophobia; prior related infraction
China is out to get us. They're stealing your information, your money, and your job.

Trump is all that stands between the great US of A and Chinese domination. He's defending the nation.

Are you not getting the newsletter?
This is actually true about China but Trump is actually enhancing their success rate, not holding it back.
 
Nov 5, 2017
3,483
What the actual fuck is the justification for this?

Pure and simple Xenophobia...it's been that since day 1 of this admin...remember the Chinese tariffs? Yeah, same reason!

He thinks that the only way to MAGA is to steal Chinese wealth and claim it as American wealth and claim MAGA is successful.
This same reasoning holds true when Trump ousted USA from the WHO earlier this year too.
 

Dee Harp

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
98
Details that are TBA are worse. Cause in 45 days when everyone forgets this even happened. That can put anything in the order and probably add any company to it and it wont make it past reddit as far as coverage.
 

Baccus

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
5,307
I'm sorry but that judicial interpretation from Random Twitter User doesn't instill any confidence.
 

Tsuyu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,691
Naw there's a bunch of china hawks and war mongers in his admin agitating for a fight with someone so they can retain power

Peter Navarro, Stephen Miller are warmongering nutcases that's more concern of raging a cold war with China than looking after American citizens during this pandemic.

Trump administration escalate the tension everytime they fell flat on their faces and this fall is a disaster in the making when they forced school to reopen at all time height daily new cases.

I expect Trump and his cronies to go further beyond this.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,566
I believe the updated title is inaccurate. The executive order comes into effect in 45 days after today meaning transactions between a US consumer and with Tencent and/or subsidiaries (as either a broad focus as in all transactions or with a narrow focus with transactions relating to WeChat) will be prohibited (as well as conspiracy to avoid prohibition etc), where subsidiaries will be determined by the Secretary of Commerce.

That neither transaction or subsidiary are defined yet doesn't mean this EO doesn't do anything specifically, just that its stupidly broad.

Yes, I've read what the White House told the LA Times, but if you believe the White Houses' word on this compared to the actual document they've put up, I've a bridge to sell you in Shenzheng.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
I believe the updated title is inaccurate. The executive order comes into effect in 45 days after today meaning transactions between a US consumer and with Tencent and/or subsidiaries (as either a broad focus as in all transactions or with a narrow focus with transactions relating to WeChat) will be prohibited (as well as conspiracy to avoid prohibition etc), where subsidiaries will be determined by the Secretary of Commerce.

That neither transaction or subsidiary are defined yet doesn't mean this EO doesn't do anything specifically, just that its stupidly broad.

Yes, I've read what the White House told the LA Times, but if you believe the White Houses' word on this compared to the actual document they've put up, I've a bridge to sell you in Shenzheng.
.

They will walk it back some, but the order definitely says what it says. The only weasel words are the boilerplate "to the extent permitted by applicable law", which is a significant extent!
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,566
.

They will walk it back some, but the order definitely says what it says. The only weasel words are the boilerplate "to the extent permitted by applicable law", which is a significant extent!

yeah lol it's straight up "unless what i'm saying could get me into trouble in which case i didn't say it"
 

Shion2

Member
Aug 3, 2020
65
I genuinely think the US, the EU and other nations in the G7/G20 could force the CCP to change China's governmental system into something democratic and with actual rule of law if they banded together with a proper agreement to effectively shut down China's economy with sanctions if it doesn't become a democratic state and stay that way.
Whoa whoa whoa now you have taken this shit to a whole new level. You do understand China with probably the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world is nothing like Iraq or Iran don't you?

If Trump really cared about these companies stealing personal information his best bet would be implementing GDPR like EU did. But he's only doing this for the tough on China posture and for reelection.
 

Jonnax

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,970
I genuinely think the US, the EU and other nations in the G7/G20 could force the CCP to change China's governmental system into something democratic and with actual rule of law if they banded together with a proper agreement to effectively shut down China's economy with sanctions if it doesn't become a democratic state and stay that way.

Problem is, Trump isn't the right person to be trusted on anything related to China, even if he can be right for the wrong reasons.
The goal of China in its rise has been self sufficiency.
Consider how foreign companeis can't operate without being 51% owned by a chinese company.
And how they have their own software ecosystem.

China becoming democratic is a fantasy.