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Oct 26, 2017
16,409
Mushroom Kingdom
lol The last 3 years have been an assault and annihilation of "facts" like every.single.day.. Has there even been a day where a lie hasn't been spouted and fact checked?

and a good portion of the country is brainwashed into that.

Thats basically all it takes for a system to be tainted.
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
trump has the nuclear codes doesn't he?

maybe he'll get rid of one of the Dakotas and then see how the other states like their chances
The launch codes don't work that way, they're just codes to mention to the command staff at a silo to authorize a launch. Plus anything besides a prepared launch plan (there are supposedly several in the football, probably for different enemies) would require a lengthy reconfiguration of the missiles.

We know there are good odds that silo staff won't actually initiate the launch even if ordered to (due to morals and stuff), asking them to aim a missile onto US territory and launching it would likely get a "fuck you" response.
 

Brewm0nt

Member
Dec 22, 2017
978
Orlando, FL
I don't quite understand what you mean by saying "logical endpoint", here. I mean if you're saying that my belief that the cops or armed white supremacist militia groups will have no issues with enacting state-level martial law in order to ensure Trump retains federal power is foolish, then fine. Hell, I'll even grant you that it was cops that were fighting against the militias protecting the lawmakers in Oregon trying to avoid voting on a climate change bill.

But
1. The use of armed forces to affect turnout is a time-honored tradition, and one the US is pretty good based on history
and
2. I do believe that police organizations are, in fact, fascist enough to support doing this

Yeah I'm trying to get to exactly what you think will happen. I mean, first off every state has different police departments for their varying counties, as well as highway and state police, so we're talking upwards of an average of 65 different groups of police with their own leadership, and their own political/demographic makeup depending on their area. You're saying that they'll all, without disagreement, decide to take over their own state in coordination, to stop elections from happening? And you're saying this will happen 50 times?

How in the world is this something that is realistic to you?
 

wig split

Member
Nov 1, 2017
352
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory Trolling; Previous Serious Infractions
Trump will probably get elected again and that's perfectly OK by me.
 

DjDeathCool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,638
Bismarck, ND
Trump is a coward, fundamentally. I would wager that not only will that not happen, he will leave Washington before the inauguration in a fit of pique (and he definitely will not attend his successor's inauguration).
I think that is the most likeliest scenario, yes... but what scares me about this "best case scenario" is that he will sit on the sidelines crying about illegitimate elections on Twitter and completely undermining everything President Warren (i'm being cute) will do by telling his base she is illegitimate and therefore unable to lead our country. You can bet your ass congressional Republicans will continue to go along with that shit. If we don't keep the house AND gain control of the senate the next four years are going to continue to be dealing with Trump bullshit whether he's in office or not... and even if we DO manage to gain control of the senate what will the landscape look like four years later? We can hold our breath for Trump to leave office all we want but unfortunately I don't think he's a problem we're ever escaping. The damage has been done... but I realize this is a thread about him leaving office and he likely will... but I don't think that will mean much.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
My favorite timeline is Warren arriving at the White House and Trump being escorted off in handcuffs.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
My favorite timeline is Warren arriving at the White House and Trump being escorted off in handcuffs.

My favorite timeline is Trump trying to flee to Russia after the election, only to be immediately extradited back to US custody and put on trial.

I want to see him betrayed, not just beaten.
 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,655
Here's something Trump can do:

After he loses the election but before he's out of office (say, January first of 2020) he invites the new president-elect to the White House, where he shoots her with a gun.

He's still president, can't be indicted!
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
Here's something Trump can do:

After he loses the election but before he's out of office (say, January first of 2020) he invites the new president-elect to the White House, where he shoots her with a gun.

He's still president, can't be indicted!

I'm pretty sure a lame duck president assassinating the president-elect would constitute treason on a level the country has never seen before.

We're talking "so bad the UN Security Council might get involved".
 
OP
OP
nintendoman58

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,107
There won't be any. That's what you don't understand.

Keep sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "this isn't happening!"

See how well that works out for you next year.

Rules and norms are dead. The playbook is tipped to shreds.

The same way he has corrupted everything else: apathy and cowardice.

You're not living in the same America that existed just a few years ago.

You seem VERY convinced that there won't be an election at all. Who's going to not hold the election?

What can Trump do to make this a reality?

How will apathy and cowardice stop the states from holding the elections? Is Trump going to send the military to force them? Are states just...not gonna do it because Trump said so? Seems a bit odd considering all the money being thrown at them from both sides of the isle.

Please, enlighten us by explaining in detail how there won't be an election. I'm listening!

You seem to think you're smarter than the rest of us after all!
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,997
Couldn't he issue an executive order to suspend the election results or something? I doubt it'd be carried out but still.
 
OP
OP
nintendoman58

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,107
Couldn't he issue an executive order to suspend the election results or something? I doubt it'd be carried out but still.

No, he couldn't.

When I say he doesn't have the power to do these things, he literally has NO POWER to do it. As in, nobody to actually carry out that kind of order.

If he says or does something like that, the military and everyone else isn't just gonna go "Okay" and just go along with it.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,106
I don't quite understand what you mean by saying "logical endpoint", here. I mean if you're saying that my belief that the cops or armed white supremacist militia groups will have no issues with enacting state-level martial law in order to ensure Trump retains federal power is foolish, then fine. Hell, I'll even grant you that it was cops that were fighting against the militias protecting the lawmakers in Oregon trying to avoid voting on a climate change bill.

But
1. The use of armed forces to affect turnout is a time-honored tradition, and one the US is pretty good based on history
and
2. I do believe that police organizations are, in fact, fascist enough to support doing this

The problem is still that no-one in power actually likes or respects Trump and wouldn't support him in that situation. It doesn't really matter that the average cop or soldier likes Trump.
 

Error 52

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
2,032
Yeah, but what if Trump shouts "I'm the lightbringer! I'm the fucking universe!" and ascends to godhood? What then, wiseguy?
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,700
Siloam Springs
I think what scares me is Russians hacking into voting machines. The way the electoral college works, they wouldn't need to hack into every state to turn an election. Furthermore you can't rely on anybody in the Trump admin or GOP to do the right thing and prevent election interference. They are so corrupt, they might even facilitate the meddling.

I would like to believe Russia's other strategy of polluting social media won't work a second time around though. People can smell a bot from a mile away.

I think what Trump and Russia are doing on our social media will continue to work. Because it exists there are people that will say, "look it exists, prove to me it doesn't or I won't vote against GOP/Trump" I know too many people that are like that, the only thing they care about is if their team is going to win the election and they'll take whatever things they think supports their decision to not change their mind.

My Brother-in-law (southerner/confederate sympathizer) said to my mother-in-law (registered democrat), "I think I might vote Democrat in 2020." I entered the conversation with, "No you won't, the first talking point out of Trump's mouth that you think you can use to ignore all of the bad things he has done, or what his base has done, or what the GOP has done, and you're right back on the GOP band wagon." He shrugged and nodded. I find a lot of people down south are going that route.

These people at times seem like they care about others, then out of nowhere they vote to get rid of the people they say they care about. It's tiring and frustrating trying to constantly keep them on point and focus on what is good for all people versus fear mongering.
 

pirata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,409
Most of the people with guns would likely disagree with you.

I've said this a lot both here and to people in real life ever since Trump and fascism rose to power: I don't think this ends without a period of violence unlike anything we've ever seen before. A huge portion of this country, including most white people in the countryside and the ruling corporate bourgeoisie have put everything on the line for Trump, and the prospect of losing their iron grasp over this country's future will bring out the absolute worst in them, even worse than anything we've seen before. A attempt at dictatorship or mass organized violence against us are not at all out of the question.

I'm not saying this as scare-mongering or to stoke despair. Quite the opposite. We have to remain resolute and make sure nothing catches us totally by surprise.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
he is literally going nowhere without being removed

his supporters support him doing anything to stop the socialist takeover lol
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Most of the people with guns would likely disagree with you.

I've said this a lot both here and to people in real life ever since Trump and fascism rose to power: I don't think this ends without a period of violence unlike anything we've ever seen before. A huge portion of this country, including most white people in the countryside and the ruling corporate bourgeoisie have put everything on the line for Trump, and the prospect of losing their iron grasp over this country's future will bring out the absolute worst in them, even worse than anything we've seen before. A attempt at dictatorship or mass organized violence against us are not at all out of the question.

I'm not saying this as scare-mongering or to stoke despair. Quite the opposite. We have to remain resolute and make sure nothing catches us totally by surprise.
What people with guns?
 

Darkgran

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,240
Third time posting this so sorry but this is how it could go down...

Trump has made everyone question whether or not news is fake.
He has said that the News Media is the enemy of the people.
Even when we see evidence that something is absolutely true. He and his administration will say its a lie.
This in turn makes everyone question the same thing.
Come election night.
If he looses then he will say that the media is reporting fake numbers and that he hasn't lost. This in turn will have US questioning whether or not the numbers are real.
He will then say that he can't and won't give up the Presidency because we can't trust the numbers and only he knows the real outcome.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
The problem is still that no-one in power actually likes or respects Trump and wouldn't support him in that situation. It doesn't really matter that the average cop or soldier likes Trump.

I mean I agree with you on that level that I think everyone, say, in Trump's cabinet resents literally everyone else there including Trump himself. They've still almost every damn one been happy to do crimes either to retain their own power or to support Trump (which allows them to keep their job).

I mean, I'm not going to pretend Comey is my friend or comrade, but there's a reason Trump bragged about firing him.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Third time posting this so sorry but this is how it could go down...

Trump has made everyone question whether or not news is fake.
He has said that the News Media is the enemy of the people.
Even when we see evidence that something is absolutely true. He and his administration will say its a lie.
This in turn makes everyone question the same thing.
Come election night.
If he looses then he will say that the media is reporting fake numbers and that he hasn't lost. This in turn will have US questioning whether or not the numbers are real.
He will then say that he can't and won't give up the Presidency because we can't trust the numbers and only he knows the real outcome.
...but it doesn't matter what he says. How would he go about implementing his desire? That's the question no one can answer, coups just don't get declared, people need to actually do things to pull them off.

Can someone explain to me, in detail, how this coup is supposed to actually happen from a logistical standpoint?
 

Error 52

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
2,032
...but it doesn't matter what he says. How would he go about implementing his desire? That's the question no one can answer, coups just don't get declared, people need to actually do things to pull them off.

Can someone explain to me, in detail, how this coup is supposed to actually happen from a logistical standpoint?
You don't understand, there's an assault on facts going on right now! Need I say more?
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,106
I mean I agree with you on that level that I think everyone, say, in Trump's cabinet resents literally everyone else there including Trump himself. They've still almost every damn one been happy to do crimes either to retain their own power or to support Trump (which allows them to keep their job).

I mean, I'm not going to pretend Comey is my friend or comrade, but there's a reason Trump bragged about firing him.

Trump is mostly just a useful (if annoying) idiot to them as long as their interests lie roughly in the same direction, but no-one is going to stick their neck out to support some sort of military coup by him.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,602
I can't believe people really do think we're in a Michael Scoot "I declare bankruptcy" situation where he'll just announce he's President for realsies and that's that. Everyone just shrugs, goes home, and is like "welp, he was the loudest".
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
Third time posting this so sorry but this is how it could go down...

Trump has made everyone question whether or not news is fake.
He has said that the News Media is the enemy of the people.
Even when we see evidence that something is absolutely true. He and his administration will say its a lie.
This in turn makes everyone question the same thing.
Come election night.
If he looses then he will say that the media is reporting fake numbers and that he hasn't lost. This in turn will have US questioning whether or not the numbers are real.
He will then say that he can't and won't give up the Presidency because we can't trust the numbers and only he knows the real outcome.
And then January hits and he's no longer the president.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,929
1h9kt7icbc221.jpg
I feel this hasn't been reposted or commented on enough. All the arguments that everything will be fine completely hinge on the idea that we have laws that actually mean anything to the current ruling class, which I would contend isn't true at all.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,422
People actually think he's going to be a WH squatter after he loses and lock himself in the Oval Office for 4 years?

They are the ones chicken littling in the other threads, and rushing to this one to post stupid stuff like: "And we all know laws cannot be broken rite?". Like, people are legit claiming the guy won't ever leave office. It's like the jokes sank in and some people are dense and didn't realize they were jokes. When this clown loses, he's gone. He isn't staying forever any more than Obama was when the rightwing fucknuts were claiming the same.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
No, he couldn't.

When I say he doesn't have the power to do these things, he literally has NO POWER to do it. As in, nobody to actually carry out that kind of order.

If he says or does something like that, the military and everyone else isn't just gonna go "Okay" and just go along with it.

well, the military probably would go along with it. Most of them love trump. The DOJ is eroded to the point of being trumps DOJ.

It is possible he has enough structure in place to declare the election invalid and then what?

Do you 100% trust Roberts to swear in a new president if that does happen?

Do you trust swing states with GOP governors to validate their election results if trump tells them not to?

the main thing that makes your OP true would be massive protests if he were to even attempt it. it would be a chaos scenario. If he desires to make the transition chaotic he absolutely can. And given his nature I'd expect it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,932
I feel this hasn't been reposted or commented on enough. All the arguments that everything will be fine completely hinge on the idea that we have laws that actually mean anything to the current ruling class, which I would contend isn't true at all.
And the argument of all the bed-wetters hinges on the idea that after Jan 20, 2021, people (the secret service who are 'just doing a job', the military who hate his guts, the rest of the Republican party that hate his guts and actively talks all kinds of shit about him behind his back) will actually give 2 fucks about the monumental pain in the ass that is Donald Trump enough to cross this that line. To 'die' on that hill, to swear loyalty indefinitely at all costs. A proposition that effectively is highly illegal, career and life destroying/ending!

A decent amount of his base are the nuts, duh. But the people in that place of power in the admin, they are in it for themselves at the end of the day. Saving their own asses, fucking off to do something else, doing their best repair their image on TV, or getting a book deal are the first priorities after he looses that election.

Trump himself is that guy. He is a coward, when he looses he will curl into a ball and moan about being oppressed once his posse bounces when they loose power. They won't have an obligation to deal with him anymore, should a dem win the election.

Yes OP, I'm tired of reading all this bullshit as well.
 

Fhtagn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
Considering the GOP is going along with everything Trump says and is currently stonewalling an impeachment investigation, something completely absurd at any other time in modern American history could still be a crisis in this environment.

It's overstating things to say it will definitely go down any given way, but there's clearly a non-zero chance of either Trump "winning" a second election via machine hacking and then the GOP suppressing all investigation into it, or it being another Bush V Gore, which as I'll remind you, absolutely was a stolen election.

It's really not outlandish to look at the pattern of the last couple years, where Dems in power drag their feet on enforcement and have yet to jail anyone for ignoring subpoenas, went out of their way to ignore the obstruction of justice detailed in the Mueller Report...

Given the long history of democracies falling apart in situations like this, why is the USA different?

if on the other hand, it's a clear clean win for Warren or Sanders, then even if Trump pulls some shit, he'll be laughed at.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,204
I agree with the OP's general premise, but I'm pretty sure every government that becomes a fascist dictatorship says that too
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,204
I won't discount the possibility that there will be an attempted fascist coup in my lifetime but Trump and his gross sycophants ain't gonna get it done

Agreed 100%. But a smart, effective, experienced psychopath in the WH could probably take the ball Trump cant seem to keep a hold of and run it all the way to the endzone. Like imagine if McConnell was president
 

Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
How do we know he isn't still the president? How can we be sure the numbers are right?
If he lost he lost. That's it. He can't Tweet himself into a win. He can't cry Democrat conspiracy and overturn an election. He doesn't get a do-over. That's it.

Jesus, Trump is not the boogieman. He doesn't dwell under your bed and come out when you're not looking like some sort of malevolent omnipotent force. The things people are attributing as possible by him he just can't do and no one would let him even try.
 
OP
OP
nintendoman58

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,107
well, the military probably would go along with it. Most of them love trump. The DOJ is eroded to the point of being trumps DOJ.

It is possible he has enough structure in place to declare the election invalid and then what?

Do you 100% trust Roberts to swear in a new president if that does happen?

Do you trust swing states with GOP governors to validate their election results if trump tells them not to?

the main thing that makes your OP true would be massive protests if he were to even attempt it. it would be a chaos scenario. If he desires to make the transition chaotic he absolutely can. And given his nature I'd expect it.

Sure I trust states with GOP governors to validate their election results of Trump tells them not to.

You know why?

Remember when Trump cried "VOTER FRAUD" and asked states to hand over everyone's voting data? Every state told him to fuck off.

It'll be the same for the election if it's called for whichever Dem that wins. Nobody actually wants any trouble and will just want to do their jobs to get it over with.
 

Darkgran

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,240
That's not Trump's call to make, so it doesn't matter his opinion

If he loses, he's no longer president. All the Twitter whining doesn't amount to anything. He will no longer be president if he loses.
If he lost he lost. That's it. He can't Tweet himself into a win. He can't cry Democrat conspiracy and overturn an election. He doesn't get a do-over. That's it.

Jesus, Trump is not the boogieman. He doesn't dwell under your bed and come out when you're not looking like some sort of malevolent omnipotent force. The things people are attributing as possible by him he just can't do and no one would let him even try.


Have you guys not been paying attention to what is happening?

All I can say is lets just wait and see how this plays out...
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
Have you guys not been paying attention to what is happening?

All I can say is lets just wait and see how this plays out...
So like... explain to me his plan for staying in office.

What specific steps would he take to remain in office, despite losing

Like, your example in your previous post just stops at the "how is he going to remain president and wield power"
 

Rad Bandolar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,036
SoCal
The OP is absolutely correct in their facts, the guy can't just say "NU UH I REFUSE" if it's as cut and dried as a huge landslide loss.

However there's really no system in place stopping Team Trump from contesting election results in various states for months and months after the election if it's even reasonably close in any states. With enough GOP governors and judges in place in various states, Trump definitely COULD throw a giant legal wrench into everything and bring the process to a standstill for months and months while we all fucking groan because it's obvious the inevitable outcome is "he lost".

The 2000 election wasn't conceded until Dec 13th, just short of a month before the scheduled inauguration. And that was between two relatively "normal" candidates over a legit close race in Florida that definitely warranted a recount. Imagine instead of just Florida we've got recounts and court cases and appeals going on in 5-6 separate states and the chaos THAT is going to entail. These boobs won't even comply with subpoenas from Congress, they're not going to sit back and just say "Oh well the Supreme Court of Wisconsin said we lost, I guess that's it". They're going to appeal and appeal and keep the ride going on our dime.

Then after that expect Trump to just be in the news constantly, he'll be a regular on Fox News, probably have his own show there, maybe start his own news network as rumored in 2016, who knows. But he definitely ain't gonna ghost out and just show up at random sporting events over the next several years like past presidents have...
Out of all the fantasy scenarios, this is probably the one with the best likelihood of happening. Their overall strategy is stifle the vote, contest the vote, and litigate the vote both in courts and on Fox News. I've no doubt that they'll be yelling about all kinds of shit for as long as they can. But one thing is for sure: On January 6, 2021, Congress counts the electoral votes and names the next President who assumes office on January 20, 2021. There isn't a scenario where this doesn't happen.

For the conspiracy theorists:

The reason it will happen is because for all of the bluster, and the prevarication, and the shady dealing, and putting Party over country, those Republican senators and most of those Republican Congressmen also value the actual legitimacy of their offices. Sure, they'll try to exploit every gray area in the book, and forsake all norms, internal rules, and gentleman's agreements to get their way, and they will no doubt talk a lot of shit. The hyperbole will be through the roof, but they won't actually do anything, because if they fail to actually implement the Constitutional mechanism that's clearly spelled out in the document that legitimizes their offices, then they're no longer legitimate themselves. That is foundational. That is bedrock. That is the implicit understanding that underlies everything. It would be an act that would directly lead to the dissolution of the Union itself, because there are a significant number of States who would take issue sending money and representatives to a body that is no longer the legitimate Constitutional government of the Union that they belong to.

Now, are these Senators and long-time Congressmen, who've seen Presidential administrations come and go, and who make a really good living by monetizing their offices, really going to threaten their gravy train for that? A close, contested election means one thing for them: they can make a shitload of money off of it as their focus turns to the mid-terms. The amount of donations they'll receive will be monumental. They'll be in demand to speak in front of conservative groups, charging thousands of dollars per plate. All of the conservative grifters online and on the conservative news outlets will feel like they've won the lottery as their righteous fury drives revenue. Why would any of those people give up the enormous amount of money they're going to make over this?

This doesn't even get to the Courts, the institutions, and the actual Armed Forces, who are not going to turn their back on 200+ years of tradition, fidelity, and their actual Oaths for a baboon who would backstab any one of them on a whim.