generally dislike them.
cool if the game has meaningful player choice that influences the narrative, but almost no games do that well.
cool if the game has meaningful player choice that influences the narrative, but almost no games do that well.
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"True Endings" yay or nay
- Thread starter -Pyromaniac-
- Start date
This greatly depends on the game
Some games have branching paths and they give you the option to go back to the point where you have to make a choice. I'm fine with true endings if the game has this feature
If the game doesn't have it and I have to play through the whole game again and potentially have to write down/look up a guide, then it depends how much I really like the game to move forward with it.
If I have to pay for the "True Ending," then 99.9% I'm not going to bother. I'll just watch it on Youtube.
Some games have branching paths and they give you the option to go back to the point where you have to make a choice. I'm fine with true endings if the game has this feature
If the game doesn't have it and I have to play through the whole game again and potentially have to write down/look up a guide, then it depends how much I really like the game to move forward with it.
If I have to pay for the "True Ending," then 99.9% I'm not going to bother. I'll just watch it on Youtube.
In my opinion design choices like that don't respect the player's time. If I went through and finished the game, yeah, I'd love to see the ending I spent time to get to, thank you.
Locking plot behind some arbitrary demands is pretty shitty and disrespectful.
I also hated how Nier Automata made you go through the whole game a few times so you can know what's up, I gave up halfway through the 2nd playthrough because it was pretty much the exact same playthrough as before but with a worse character.
I know it's supposedly changing things around for the 3rd one, but yeah fuck that, there are other games I'd like to play.
Locking plot behind some arbitrary demands is pretty shitty and disrespectful.
I also hated how Nier Automata made you go through the whole game a few times so you can know what's up, I gave up halfway through the 2nd playthrough because it was pretty much the exact same playthrough as before but with a worse character.
I know it's supposedly changing things around for the 3rd one, but yeah fuck that, there are other games I'd like to play.
I've always rather liked the concept, and particularly the nomenclature. There's a peculiar sort of weight to one possibility being labelled as "true" while others aren't. It easily leads to scenarios like Type-Moon games, which tend to have their two possible endings be the Good End and the True End -- conveying implicitly that "and then they all lived happily ever after" was never really on the table. Simple, but very neat.
When done right, it can also be a good vehicle for implicit characterization of the playable character. You, the player, can necessarily force the character to act however you want; you're controlling them. However, having a True End depend on you taking certain actions allows the game to show-not-tell you something about the person that character is "when you're not around", so to speak.
The example of this sort that I always remember is the first Gunvolt game: to get the true ending, you have to wear a specific piece of equipment into the final mission. As a player, there's no reason you'd ever equip it; it's not just useless, it's actively detrimental. So, by having it be a requirement for the True End, the game is telling you that regardless of what you would choose, Gunvolt himself would choose to swap out his useful military-issue item (which in gameplay terms makes you nigh-unkillable, by the way) for this 100% worthless accessory... Because it's a handmade gift from someone he loves. He doesn't think he'll make it back from this mission. That's what it's showing you, and it's doing it purely on the back of the True End mechanic. The game could force you to equip it; it could ignore the equipment menu and just have the necklace be worn in the cutscene regardless -- but it doesn't do those things, and I think the moment lands a lot more soundly for it. Moments like this one make True Ends with obscure requirements worthwhile.
Obviously you can also have sucky true ends that do nothing cool at all, but that's no fault of the mechanic itself. It's just the devs doing a bad job.
When done right, it can also be a good vehicle for implicit characterization of the playable character. You, the player, can necessarily force the character to act however you want; you're controlling them. However, having a True End depend on you taking certain actions allows the game to show-not-tell you something about the person that character is "when you're not around", so to speak.
The example of this sort that I always remember is the first Gunvolt game: to get the true ending, you have to wear a specific piece of equipment into the final mission. As a player, there's no reason you'd ever equip it; it's not just useless, it's actively detrimental. So, by having it be a requirement for the True End, the game is telling you that regardless of what you would choose, Gunvolt himself would choose to swap out his useful military-issue item (which in gameplay terms makes you nigh-unkillable, by the way) for this 100% worthless accessory... Because it's a handmade gift from someone he loves. He doesn't think he'll make it back from this mission. That's what it's showing you, and it's doing it purely on the back of the True End mechanic. The game could force you to equip it; it could ignore the equipment menu and just have the necklace be worn in the cutscene regardless -- but it doesn't do those things, and I think the moment lands a lot more soundly for it. Moments like this one make True Ends with obscure requirements worthwhile.
Obviously you can also have sucky true ends that do nothing cool at all, but that's no fault of the mechanic itself. It's just the devs doing a bad job.
I believe Ys8 required you to do all the side quest events (or nearly all of them) with the fellow islanders. That stuff is annoying even if I do enjoy doing them. Because I know there are people who don't.
Though my least favorite is doing some obscure series of choices that aren't even related to the main plot nor easy to find without a guide. That stuff can burn.
Though my least favorite is doing some obscure series of choices that aren't even related to the main plot nor easy to find without a guide. That stuff can burn.
I really don't have a problem with it, some people like beating games at the max difficulty and collecting all the watchamacallits, and 100%ing everything, so it's cool for them. And for me, I'll just watch the true ending on YouTube once I've beaten the game to my satisfaction.
I like them but I also havent played a lot of JRPGs where there's a failstate really early on or obscene grinding involved to reach them.
In Zero Escape I actually enjoy seeing where certain timelines go bad or get held up so the true ending is just a reward for the effort anyway
In Zero Escape I actually enjoy seeing where certain timelines go bad or get held up so the true ending is just a reward for the effort anyway
If I can play a game, finish it, and get a true ending, then whatever, that's cool. If I need to replay it just to get an ending, it's awful game design 9/10 times.
Depends on the game.
In an RPG where your choices matter, then no, I don't like them, it cheapens the experience and becomes a guide, especially if you don't agree with the ending best the "best" or "good"
In games where the alt endings are treated as what ifs or big WTF things like say Silent Hill games then no not really.
But then their is the middle ones which is a grey area like Bioshock 1 and Life is Strange. The latter is annoying because it's clear one ending was worked on more and was considered the "canon" one despite both choices being considered valid, Bioshock is odd because I'm not sure whether it's okay for an ending like should.
But what about say a Fighting game like Mortal Kombat's arcade endings that can be contradictory?
In an RPG where your choices matter, then no, I don't like them, it cheapens the experience and becomes a guide, especially if you don't agree with the ending best the "best" or "good"
In games where the alt endings are treated as what ifs or big WTF things like say Silent Hill games then no not really.
But then their is the middle ones which is a grey area like Bioshock 1 and Life is Strange. The latter is annoying because it's clear one ending was worked on more and was considered the "canon" one despite both choices being considered valid, Bioshock is odd because I'm not sure whether it's okay for an ending like should.
But what about say a Fighting game like Mortal Kombat's arcade endings that can be contradictory?
As usual, it depends heavily on the game itself. Generally if you can get the true ending using a reasonable level of intuition and without a guide, then yes. Persona 3-5 are really good at that.
However, there are a ton of ways to do true endings wrong. If you can't get the true ending at all on your first playthrough (i.e., it's New Game + only), that's bad. If it's locked behind something really obscure and/or needlessly difficult, that's also bad. If you need to constantly be looking at a guide the whole way through just to make absolutely sure you didn't miss anything for 100%, that's very bad.
I can definitely name more games that do it terribly vs. the games that do it well, so ultimately that's a No vote.
However, there are a ton of ways to do true endings wrong. If you can't get the true ending at all on your first playthrough (i.e., it's New Game + only), that's bad. If it's locked behind something really obscure and/or needlessly difficult, that's also bad. If you need to constantly be looking at a guide the whole way through just to make absolutely sure you didn't miss anything for 100%, that's very bad.
I can definitely name more games that do it terribly vs. the games that do it well, so ultimately that's a No vote.
I agree with this post, and the fact Persona 4 is one of the better ones as of late in regards to true endings is ridiculous.
if you can reasonably figure it out, it's good. stuff you'd probably never do is not so good. locking yourself out early on without knowing it is really bad
Arkham Knight is it's own thing, that's just ridiculous busywork. I don't understand how that even happened
Arkham Knight is it's own thing, that's just ridiculous busywork. I don't understand how that even happened
I guess it depends on how easy/missable it is; I don't mind working a little harder for it but shit like Arkham Knight can fuck right off.(and or multiple play throughs)
the real, creater intended ending should never be hidden for replay or whatever else bs purposes.
Valkyrie Profile is peak bullshit, eclipsing even the multiple Atlus productions that are contenders.
Original 3 and 5, sure, but 4 is fucking terrible for it and Golden and Royal are way beyond reasonable and arguably the worst offenders presented in this thread.
4 required multiple specific answers to dialogue tree, and they are like 20 minutes past the closest save point due to the game having awful QOL and no scene skip. Golden and Royal require very specific S. Links to focus on, beyond what the original games required.
It doesn't have a True Ending, and goes out of its way to ensure that there isn't any ending that is more right than the others. The war is inevitable, and every faction has its own goals. Golden Deer is definitely the "happy" one, but I don't think I've ever seen people treat that like a True Ending.
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A million percent yay, as long as I enjoy the game itself. I'm not a "content tourist" (excuse the term, I just don't know a better way to express that concept) and prefer games that have a lot on offer post-game.
Thinking back on my childhood, I didn't have access to the vast amount of games I do today. Take something like Valkyrie Profile 1. The true ending (which includes tons of extra gameplay) is ridiculously obscure and arguably impossible to unlock without following a guide. As an adult, I played it through once without a guide and then replayed it with a guide and didn't mind that much because the game is relatively non-linear and the gameplay was top-notch. However, I can only imagine what a massive feeling it would have been to actually discover all of that stuff on my own when I was younger. For context; I think I beat Final Fantasy 7 like... 40 times from beginning to end as a kid. There's no chance in hell I'll play through a long and story-driven game that many times today. Really makes me wish I knew about Valkyrie Profile 1 and owned that instead back then, honestly :P
If I couldn't stand playing a game a second/third/whatever time through, I probably didn't care about any true ending or the regular ending to begin with, honestly, so I never really feel like I'm missing out. If it's a game that's boring as heck to play but has an intriguing story, I'll just watch the true ending on Youtube.
I will say that games with very high investment requirements that have a completely uninteresting true ending are annoying, though. Just don't bother at that point.
Thinking back on my childhood, I didn't have access to the vast amount of games I do today. Take something like Valkyrie Profile 1. The true ending (which includes tons of extra gameplay) is ridiculously obscure and arguably impossible to unlock without following a guide. As an adult, I played it through once without a guide and then replayed it with a guide and didn't mind that much because the game is relatively non-linear and the gameplay was top-notch. However, I can only imagine what a massive feeling it would have been to actually discover all of that stuff on my own when I was younger. For context; I think I beat Final Fantasy 7 like... 40 times from beginning to end as a kid. There's no chance in hell I'll play through a long and story-driven game that many times today. Really makes me wish I knew about Valkyrie Profile 1 and owned that instead back then, honestly :P
If I couldn't stand playing a game a second/third/whatever time through, I probably didn't care about any true ending or the regular ending to begin with, honestly, so I never really feel like I'm missing out. If it's a game that's boring as heck to play but has an intriguing story, I'll just watch the true ending on Youtube.
I will say that games with very high investment requirements that have a completely uninteresting true ending are annoying, though. Just don't bother at that point.
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I like it. Give repeatability if you want it and else I can see several other ways the story could have ended and such.
I like true endings when they are a reward for doing something super secret and side questy. P4G for example.
If not, then it is less interesting but it depends on the situation. Like if you know up front there is a bunch of bad ends and one good end and the game is figuring out how to get the good end then that is fine too. If its just "we made a bunch of endings so we can put that bullet on the box and we like this one best" then I'd rather not deal with it.
If not, then it is less interesting but it depends on the situation. Like if you know up front there is a bunch of bad ends and one good end and the game is figuring out how to get the good end then that is fine too. If its just "we made a bunch of endings so we can put that bullet on the box and we like this one best" then I'd rather not deal with it.
If it requires a boat load of time wasting or, even worse, replaying the entire game again, nah
If it's not that hard to get then I don't have a problem with it though it's still a bit silly. If you want to have a bad ending that's still somehow canon or whatever just have the player immediately transported back to the divergence point or something.
If it's not that hard to get then I don't have a problem with it though it's still a bit silly. If you want to have a bad ending that's still somehow canon or whatever just have the player immediately transported back to the divergence point or something.
I was particularly annoyed with the first Gunvolt because I didn't feel how the true ending played out was worth the trouble necessary to get the materials necessary to make that necklace, but that's me.
I'm okay with them, provided the requirements aren't crazy. Peace Walker level shenanigans can fuck off tho
Hate it.
Radiant Dawn is my favourite FE game but to get the true ending (basically just adds a few new scenes in the last part, two new characters for the late-game, and the full epilogue) you have to do a second playthrough. Howlongtobeat says it takes about 42 hours for one playthrough. I guess today that doesn't seem too long but playing the exact same 42 hour game twice just to get the full ending was and is annoying.
I don't mind sequential endings like Nier Automata or different paths like Three Houses since both involve some level of new content to get the different endings.
Radiant Dawn is my favourite FE game but to get the true ending (basically just adds a few new scenes in the last part, two new characters for the late-game, and the full epilogue) you have to do a second playthrough. Howlongtobeat says it takes about 42 hours for one playthrough. I guess today that doesn't seem too long but playing the exact same 42 hour game twice just to get the full ending was and is annoying.
I don't mind sequential endings like Nier Automata or different paths like Three Houses since both involve some level of new content to get the different endings.
Depends on the game. If it's a visual novel with routes that vary a lot, I don't mind replaying. Especially if they just let me skip what I've seen before. Or the Nier games that do them well.
Regarding Cold Steel 4, it's awful. Both endings are garbage and the plot devices explaining them are nonsensical. It's fitting that the game couldn't end well, given how trash the rest of the writing was up to then anyway.
Regarding Cold Steel 4, it's awful. Both endings are garbage and the plot devices explaining them are nonsensical. It's fitting that the game couldn't end well, given how trash the rest of the writing was up to then anyway.
I can't be bothered. Whatever ending I get, I get. I've generally lost interest in a game's story by the time it ends anyway. In the case of an exception, like Silent Hill 2, I'll look up the ending that sounds the best/most fitting on Youtube and pretend I got that one.
Eh. I had zero problems getting the true endings of Golden or Royal. Rule of thumb: when a Persona expansion adds a new social link, max those immediately, because those characters are 100% involved with the new route. As for Persona 4's dialogue trees: if there's an option that suggests there might be more to the big mystery than what you've been presented with, always choose that option. Even playing the game for the first time back in 2008 I selected that option without even blinking.
