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Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
So far this season is leagues better than I thought it would be. It's a cut below S1 but this is some damn fine television.

I'm wondering if this will play out like Gone Baby Gone where 1990's Hayes figures out the case but actively suppressed details because he doesn't want the girl to be returned to her father. I'm guessing that the son died in an accident during the abduction of the sister and the satanic imagery and DND dice are red herrings that the politician is going to reference to whip the public into a frenzy for his benefit.

EDIT: I'm dead certain that the interview in 2015 is just an elaborate ruse by the son to extract the truth Hayes is clearly suppressing. Him and his wife probably "solve" the case together in 1990 and disagreed on whether or not to reveal the truth. It wouldn't surprise me if she used her book to set her son up to eventually takedown his father and oncover the actual truth.

td-connected.gif
 
Last edited:

ZeroRed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,669
That series of camera angles coupled with the music when Hays found the bag of toys and dice was pretty tense. Enjoyed the creepy factor.
My question is: Did Hays just decide to say fuck all when it came to certain evidence and not divulge the dice? My first thought was that just keeping them in his pockets in a cloth could rub prints off.

Also the dynamic between him and his wife is starting to show cracks. Something's gonna be super funky there.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Is the show setting up 2017 Hays to solve the crime?
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,200
Every one of the locals are shify bastards. It wouldn't surprise me if they are all in on it.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
I'm going to have to disagree with this coming close to season one. Episode 1 and 2 were great but 3 fell off that upward trajectory to upseat season 1. There were too many conveniences this episode. For example Hayes and Dolf were looking for the dices and then suddenly Hays finds the dices in the woods along with where the boy died. Then Hays conveniently finds the photo album.

Not way they pass the masterpiece season 1.
I don't want to convenience this away but Roland makes it pretty clear that Hays is insanely good at tracking and does his own solo thing. The show has made it clear that Wayne Hays is a savant-grade genius in tracking. He tracked (and killed) pople in Nam and also tracks wild boars for fun. I think with that in mind we have to give Hays' actions and discovery a little latitude.
Yep. And I bet he's already solved the crime before but forgets it.
Yeah it's looking that way. But keep in mind that 2017 Hays is recording out all his thoughts so he might have evidence saved even if he himself forgets.
 

mikehaggar

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,379
Harrisburg, Pa
I don't want to convenience this away but Roland makes it pretty clear that Hays is insanely good at tracking and does his own solo thing. The show has made it clear that Wayne Hays is a savant-grade genius in tracking. He tracked (and killed) pople in Nam and also tracks wild boars for fun. I think with that in mind we have to give Hays' actions and discovery a little latitude.

Not only that, but they have the conversation in the car where Hays works out that they need to go back and look at the kids and figure out why there were lying about playing with the neighbor kid and what they were really doing. That leads them to go back into the woods and to also look through the kids stuff in the house again. So, to me it makes sense that they discovered the dice and the photo album. Not convenient at all imo.
 

lasthope106

Member
Oct 25, 2017
922
Iowa USA
The 3rd episode was superbly acted but I just wasn't feeling it. They are really pushing the definition of a slow burner, and I'm not sure what the hallucination was all about. Pizzolato really needs to stop trying to say nothing in the show is supernatural, and then putting shit like that.
 

Deleted member 36543

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2017
1,355
The 3rd episode was superbly acted but I just wasn't feeling it. They are really pushing the definition of a slow burner, and I'm not sure what the hallucination was all about. Pizzolato really needs to stop trying to say nothing in the show is supernatural, and then putting shit like that.
Yeah just like how the Yellow King is a supernatural entity. People thought it was a person in the show.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,815
The 3rd episode was superbly acted but I just wasn't feeling it. They are really pushing the definition of a slow burner, and I'm not sure what the hallucination was all about. Pizzolato really needs to stop trying to say nothing in the show is supernatural, and then putting shit like that.

A hallucination isn't supernatural, but it was definitely presented as eerie. I don't really see the problem with that?
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,443
The 3rd episode was superbly acted but I just wasn't feeling it. They are really pushing the definition of a slow burner, and I'm not sure what the hallucination was all about. Pizzolato really needs to stop trying to say nothing in the show is supernatural, and then putting shit like that.

Hallucinating ≠ supernatural

It's like Rust's hallucinations in S1 due to his time undercover with heavy drug use, or the scene in S2 where Vince Vaughn is walking through the desert.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,160
Dorff's gonna end up being a real piece of shit, I can feel it. I dunno, maybe he is a raceblind good samaritan Arkansas cop that uses his privilege to pull troubled souls out of alcoholic depression pits and into the sunlight out of the kindness of his heart, but even if that's true, he's got some dirty dirt on himself hidden down deep that he's making up for.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
So far this season is leagues better than I thought it would be. It's a cut below S1 but this is some damn fine television.

I'm wondering if this will play out like Gone Baby Gone where 1990's Hayes figures out the case but actively suppressed details because he doesn't want the girl to be returned to her father. I'm guessing that the son died in an accident during the abduction of the sister and the satanic imagery and DND dice are red herrings that the politician is going to reference to whip the public into a frenzy for his benefit.

EDIT: I'm dead certain that the interview in 2015 is just an elaborate ruse by the son to extract the truth Hayes is clearly suppressing. Him and his wife probably "solve" the case together in 1990 and disagreed on whether or not to reveal the truth. It wouldn't surprise me if she used her book to set her son up to eventually takedown his father and oncover the actual truth.

td-connected.gif
5mHtR1d.gif
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
So far this season is leagues better than I thought it would be. It's a cut below S1 but this is some damn fine television.

I'm wondering if this will play out like Gone Baby Gone where 1990's Hayes figures out the case but actively suppressed details because he doesn't want the girl to be returned to her father. I'm guessing that the son died in an accident during the abduction of the sister and the satanic imagery and DND dice are red herrings that the politician is going to reference to whip the public into a frenzy for his benefit.

EDIT: I'm dead certain that the interview in 2015 is just an elaborate ruse by the son to extract the truth Hayes is clearly suppressing. Him and his wife probably "solve" the case together in 1990 and disagreed on whether or not to reveal the truth. It wouldn't surprise me if she used her book to set her son up to eventually takedown his father and oncover the actual truth.

td-connected.gif
I'm more inclined to think that the nobody solves the case properly in 80 but someone gets blamed for it - Haze disagrees and is demoted while West shuts up and is promoted
Then the wife solves it in 90 but gets killed for it by Hoyt or whoever wants to keep it secret, but she's so smart she's left all the clues for Haze in her book and notes
Haze seems more like a pure tracker/hunter to me, while Amelia is the brains and the silver tongue.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,160
I'm more inclined to think that the nobody solves the case properly in 80 but someone gets blamed for it - Haze disagrees and is demoted while West shuts up and is promoted
Odds that the scrap man gets killed in a retaliatory attack and they pin the missing/dead kids on him?

702amxzoc7n11.gif
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,439
Odds that the scrap man gets killed in a retaliatory attack and they pin the missing/dead kids on him?

702amxzoc7n11.gif

I'd have to rewatch to verify, but I think they actually used the phrase, "locked up the wrong guy."

So, we know that Hayes got demoted, and that West escaped that fate by getting shot. My guess is that the trash man enacts his revenge, Hayes and West get caught up in the crossfire, and with them both out of commission one way or the other (West injured, Hayes likely injures someone else, maybe a white guy trying to kill the trash man), less diligent/more corrupt cops get the case and quickly pin it on the wrong guy, whether that's the trash man or not.
 

johancruijff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,233
Italy
RECAP: WEEK 1

I'm not American so a lot of stuff really passed over my head for TD S1. I had never heard of HP Lovecraft before so the whole Yellow King and Carcosa stuff never meant anything to me - and I still enjoyed the story. I imagine a lot of people know about this stuff but I'm guessing a lot of people do not, so I thought I would recap all the stuff I learned from The Ringer and Vanity Fair recaps. If you know of any other tidbits or your own personal theories lemme know and I'll add them. I'll try and put these up to refresh people before the next episode.

WHO - The Charachters Suspects
Wayne Hays - the main charachter, a bored detective in 1980, Vietnam LRRP, we learn he has memory issues that are getting worse as time goes on
Roland West - Hays' partner, we learn that he has done "very well" when we jump to 1990, requires an appointment to see
Amelia - an English teacher who did painting in SF, joined the Black Panthers, then came back to finish university and become a teacher. We learn that she becomes a celebrated author and Hays' wife but is no longer with the family in 2015
Rebecca - Wayne's daughter who in 2015 is no longer coming to Arkansas and staying in LA
Henry - Wayne's son

Tom Purcell - the dad of the missing, having problems with his job and his marriage
Will Purcell - the deceased boy, found dead from blunt force trauma, posed with hands in prayer
Julie Purcell - the missing girl, may or may not be Tom's, supposedly received a bride doll on Halloween, ransom note sent to police on her behalf telling the cops to stop looking for her

Ted Legrange - aka Robert Hebert, works at a daycare, Vice officer gives Hays and West his name as someone who likes young girls
Judd Kent - Assistant District Attorney in 1980 promoted to District Attorney by 1995

WHEN - The 3 Timelines
1980 - The disappearance of two siblings occurs on the eve of the death of Steve McQueen. A search party is formed and Hays finds the body of the boy. The girl is not found but Hays and his partner begin to interrogate the town. Eventually the town shuts down out of fear.

1990 - Hays is brought in for questioning related to the disappearance and has been notified that Julie's fingerprints have been found in Oklahoma.


2015 - Hays is being interviewed for a tv show for a host with a possible ulterior motive, she might be looking for a racism angle or something else

WHAT - The Clues
The voice recorder
Hays uses a voice recorder to remember his thoughts in 2015 since his memory is not very good. He plays back a dictation to "Remember the nightstand if you need it." A matchbook, gun, clippers, matches, are seen in the nightstand. Also mentions "You don't need any mistakes this late in the game."

The hole
A hole in Will's dresser was found drilled creating a peephole into Julie's room, their uncle stayed in Will's room

The dolls
Creepy hand made bride dolls supposedly given out during halloween to Julie and found by Hays directing him towards Will's body.

Will's bike
The 3 boys were seen horsing around with Will's bike around the time of his murder and forensics have taken it in for fingerprinting.

WHERE - The Locations
West Finger, Arkansas - fictitious small town south of Fayetville
Fayetteville, Arkansas - third biggest city in Arkansas
St. Louis, Missouri - home of the Purcell uncle
Oklahoma - finger prints of Julie found in 1990 at a drugstore robbery

WHY - Themes, Historical and Popculture Influences
Steve McQueen
The "King of Cool" died on Nov 7, 1980. One of the biggest movie stars of his time. Hays pours out a bit of beer for him.

Regan Administration & Right leaning Culture
Not mentioned in the movie but Regan just won the presidential election by a lanslide Nov 4, 1980 and the rising Right Wing culture

80's culture
The beginning of mass media and people reacting to anything written in tabloids or shown on TV shows like Geraldo.
Conspiracies lead to hoaxes and the decay of community.

The Fox
y73BvlZ.jpg

Hays has no issue killing rats, but not the fox. Idk why, but I like the fox.

West Memphis Three
I had never heard of this at all, but others have mentioned it in the thread. The WM3 were basically the 3 kids in the WV bug.
west-memphis.png

The WM3 were convicted of killing three boys in Satanic Rituals and were eventually released but had served many years in jail. Documentaries like Paradise Lost were made but basically they had no evidence against them and they were targeted because they were different, outsiders of society, wearing long trenchcoats and listening to heavy metal.

Michelle Remembers & Satanic Panic
Satanic Panic can be traced back to 1980 when a psychiatrist wrote a book about his patient and future wife "Michelle Remembers." The psychiatrist concludes that his future wife was involved in Satanic cults and repressed all her memories of being in that life.

Although their story was basically descredited the couple toured the US teaching law enforcement how to spot the makings of Satanic cults like candles in a park or teenagers gathering at night. They used statistics like 50-60 thousand people were murdered by Satanic cults every year to scare people. At a time before the Internet these Satanic cult claims had huge traction with religious groups and teenagers for different reasons.

Dungeons & Dragons
While looking in Will's room we see that there is a Scout Handbook and an Authorized Dungeons and Dragons manual for The Forests of Leng.
Screen%20Shot%202019-01-13%20at%206.43.09%20PM.png



latest

Leng is a term in Lovecraft fiction as a place or plateau where a priest that lives there with a yellow veil, thought to be possibly Hastur, which leads back to the Yellow King/the King in Yellow.

James Egbert
In 1979, a 14 year old genius who attended Michigan State University suddenly disappeared. His parents hired a sensational investigator to track him down and the investigator's theory was that Egbert was so caught up in Dungeons & Dragons that he was playing it out irl in the sewers of the university. He came out of hiding months later to tell the investigator that he was dealing with issues greater than D&D, but later comitted suicide.

Franklin Scandal
Mentioned by Elisa to Hays in 2015. Was supposedly a 1988 Omaha savings & loan scam leading to Satanic cults allegations in the US government that turned out to be unprovable.

Pizzaman Extended Universe Does S3 tie in with S1 or S2?
- both (S1)Dora Lange and (S3) Will Purcell were posed in a praying position in death
- Elisa mentions the dolls were linked to the Crooked Spiral pedophile gang, possibly related to Dora Lange
vG9nEEB.jpg

The observatory tower in the Devil's Den kind of looks like a Crooked Spiral when viewed from below
TD_301_030718_WP_0017.jpg[img]


God help us if they tie-in S2
rs-205764-451c287d1e8eae5.jpg

my man you gotta put a threadmark on this 👍

_____________________________________________

so this brown sedan, i don't think they showed it right

by what the cop told Amelia at dinner, Julie's fingerprints were not related to the robbery so the angle is that she's not a damaged/lost person but she was just shopping (cosmetics iirc)
uhm
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Just caught up -- wasn't in a rush to watch after S2 but so far this season has me hooked. The WM3 connection in the first episode was pretty blatant but I doubt it will play further into the story. Right now they seem to be pushing the idea that the food magnate did it to replace his granddaughter or something with all the talk about fancy cars and his sudden outburst of charity etc.
 

Serpico99

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,854
NYC
I think bringing back the whole interview narrative did wonders. It brought back that TD noire tone and theme. The theme being time and regret.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
RECAP: WEEK 1

I'm not American so a lot of stuff really passed over my head for TD S1. I had never heard of HP Lovecraft before so the whole Yellow King and Carcosa stuff never meant anything to me - and I still enjoyed the story. I imagine a lot of people know about this stuff but I'm guessing a lot of people do not, so I thought I would recap all the stuff I learned from The Ringer and Vanity Fair recaps. If you know of any other tidbits or your own personal theories lemme know and I'll add them. I'll try and put these up to refresh people before the next episode.

WHO - The Charachters Suspects
Wayne Hays - the main charachter, a bored detective in 1980, Vietnam LRRP, we learn he has memory issues that are getting worse as time goes on
Roland West - Hays' partner, we learn that he has done "very well" when we jump to 1990, requires an appointment to see
Amelia - an English teacher who did painting in SF, joined the Black Panthers, then came back to finish university and become a teacher. We learn that she becomes a celebrated author and Hays' wife but is no longer with the family in 2015
Rebecca - Wayne's daughter who in 2015 is no longer coming to Arkansas and staying in LA
Henry - Wayne's son

Tom Purcell - the dad of the missing, having problems with his job and his marriage
Will Purcell - the deceased boy, found dead from blunt force trauma, posed with hands in prayer
Julie Purcell - the missing girl, may or may not be Tom's, supposedly received a bride doll on Halloween, ransom note sent to police on her behalf telling the cops to stop looking for her

Ted Legrange - aka Robert Hebert, works at a daycare, Vice officer gives Hays and West his name as someone who likes young girls
Judd Kent - Assistant District Attorney in 1980 promoted to District Attorney by 1995

WHEN - The 3 Timelines
1980 - The disappearance of two siblings occurs on the eve of the death of Steve McQueen. A search party is formed and Hays finds the body of the boy. The girl is not found but Hays and his partner begin to interrogate the town. Eventually the town shuts down out of fear.

1990 - Hays is brought in for questioning related to the disappearance and has been notified that Julie's fingerprints have been found in Oklahoma.


2015 - Hays is being interviewed for a tv show for a host with a possible ulterior motive, she might be looking for a racism angle or something else

WHAT - The Clues
The voice recorder
Hays uses a voice recorder to remember his thoughts in 2015 since his memory is not very good. He plays back a dictation to "Remember the nightstand if you need it." A matchbook, gun, clippers, matches, are seen in the nightstand. Also mentions "You don't need any mistakes this late in the game."

The hole
A hole in Will's dresser was found drilled creating a peephole into Julie's room, their uncle stayed in Will's room

The dolls
Creepy hand made bride dolls supposedly given out during halloween to Julie and found by Hays directing him towards Will's body.

Will's bike
The 3 boys were seen horsing around with Will's bike around the time of his murder and forensics have taken it in for fingerprinting.

WHERE - The Locations
West Finger, Arkansas - fictitious small town south of Fayetville
Fayetteville, Arkansas - third biggest city in Arkansas
St. Louis, Missouri - home of the Purcell uncle
Oklahoma - finger prints of Julie found in 1990 at a drugstore robbery

WHY - Themes, Historical and Popculture Influences
Steve McQueen
The "King of Cool" died on Nov 7, 1980. One of the biggest movie stars of his time. Hays pours out a bit of beer for him.

Regan Administration & Right leaning Culture
Not mentioned in the movie but Regan just won the presidential election by a lanslide Nov 4, 1980 and the rising Right Wing culture

80's culture
The beginning of mass media and people reacting to anything written in tabloids or shown on TV shows like Geraldo.
Conspiracies lead to hoaxes and the decay of community.

The Fox
y73BvlZ.jpg

Hays has no issue killing rats, but not the fox. Idk why, but I like the fox.

West Memphis Three
I had never heard of this at all, but others have mentioned it in the thread. The WM3 were basically the 3 kids in the WV bug.
west-memphis.png

The WM3 were convicted of killing three boys in Satanic Rituals and were eventually released but had served many years in jail. Documentaries like Paradise Lost were made but basically they had no evidence against them and they were targeted because they were different, outsiders of society, wearing long trenchcoats and listening to heavy metal.

Michelle Remembers & Satanic Panic
Satanic Panic can be traced back to 1980 when a psychiatrist wrote a book about his patient and future wife "Michelle Remembers." The psychiatrist concludes that his future wife was involved in Satanic cults and repressed all her memories of being in that life.

Although their story was basically descredited the couple toured the US teaching law enforcement how to spot the makings of Satanic cults like candles in a park or teenagers gathering at night. They used statistics like 50-60 thousand people were murdered by Satanic cults every year to scare people. At a time before the Internet these Satanic cult claims had huge traction with religious groups and teenagers for different reasons.

Dungeons & Dragons
While looking in Will's room we see that there is a Scout Handbook and an Authorized Dungeons and Dragons manual for The Forests of Leng.
Screen%20Shot%202019-01-13%20at%206.43.09%20PM.png



latest

Leng is a term in Lovecraft fiction as a place or plateau where a priest that lives there with a yellow veil, thought to be possibly Hastur, which leads back to the Yellow King/the King in Yellow.

James Egbert
In 1979, a 14 year old genius who attended Michigan State University suddenly disappeared. His parents hired a sensational investigator to track him down and the investigator's theory was that Egbert was so caught up in Dungeons & Dragons that he was playing it out irl in the sewers of the university. He came out of hiding months later to tell the investigator that he was dealing with issues greater than D&D, but later comitted suicide.

Franklin Scandal
Mentioned by Elisa to Hays in 2015. Was supposedly a 1988 Omaha savings & loan scam leading to Satanic cults allegations in the US government that turned out to be unprovable.

Pizzaman Extended Universe Does S3 tie in with S1 or S2?
- both (S1)Dora Lange and (S3) Will Purcell were posed in a praying position in death
- Elisa mentions the dolls were linked to the Crooked Spiral pedophile gang, possibly related to Dora Lange
vG9nEEB.jpg

The observatory tower in the Devil's Den kind of looks like a Crooked Spiral when viewed from below
TD_301_030718_WP_0017.jpg[img]


God help us if they tie-in S2
rs-205764-451c287d1e8eae5.jpg
This is really great stuff. I agree with johancruijff that you should threadmark each of these
 

Darkwing-Buck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,388
Los Angeles, CA
That 90's Wal-Mart recreation looked fucking insane lol

They got every detail right in that set.

In terms of the mystery, I think Ali and his wife eventually solve the case but end up covering it up as things get so messed up. This leads to Dorff finding out and this causes a permanent riff between Ali and him in the 90's.