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Trudeau announces massive $85 billion financial aid package for individuals and businesses in response to COVID-19, includes paid sick leave for all
- Thread starter CitizenVectron
- Start date
- COVID
This was my big question. You can't just announce a program like this and have it immediately be available.
You probably could get something like UBI up faster TBH because its got little red tape
I did a little digging on the Canadian Government website and the reason for the "early April" designation for these new programs and benefits is because they first require Royal Assent to be implemented. UBI would require that as well.
Man we are lucky that the Liberals got elected. CPC would be bungling this so hard with a 500 Billion dollar oil bailout.
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The thing is...it would also take weeks (probably months) to set up a totally new program to deposit money into everyone's accounts. This is quicker since it's using existing safety net programs.
While leaving out a ton of people....
So do both, but start the process now
Because she work in both and hotel and a ski and snowboard station, both closed down and now she have nothing. I'll ask her where she got the paperwork (it's all electronic i think)
CPC would have troops patrolling the streets, sending body bags to reservations while copying Trump's actions.
We'd be calling the "Chinese virus" by order of the "Scheer Government".
Not sure I had been living on the severance. I did apply today as the job market has been obviously slowing.
Disability payments aren't affected by COVID so it's not affecting your income. The point of pretty much all of these are to benefit people who are losing their income due to workplaces closing down or being a self-employed person and having to shut down.
My mother works in doctor's office is about to getting lay-off next month. Does it counts too?
So I just got laid off. It says on the website that you need medical documentation to apply for sick benefits to get that extra benefit. But this says they are waiving medical documentation. So would I just apply for sick benefits then?
I think Ontario is waiving any need for doctor's notes. It's a waste of valuable doctor time. Although the waiver applies to sick leave. I not sure about benefits.
That depends, is her being laid off because of COVID? If so she can likely apply for the Emergency Care Benefit if she didn't already apply for EI. If she has enough hours of work to apply for EI then she can just apply for that.
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I believe the new application procedure isn't in place until they can pass the bill tomorrow and get quick royal assent. Then, it will likely be another week or two until everything is up and running. In the meantime, apply for EI any way you can!
This doesn't go far enough. For example, how does this help students studying full time? There's loan deferral sure, but how does that help with immediate needs?
Need some form of UBI.
Need some form of UBI.
The problem with UBI now is that you'll be wasting money on people who don't need it. The best thing to do is to direct the money where it's needed which is exactly what Trudeau is doing.
as opposed to wasting money and administrative resources means testing for who 'really' deserves it based on their cost of living, individual health needs (disability, long term conditions, etc), and the people they may be responsible for. in a pandemic situation you can't faff about with extra moving parts when people need relief immediately and in a fully formed UBI system it doesn't matter if the well off receive a cheque because their money is being absorbed back into their progressively higher tax bracket anyways, and you cut a significant amount of administrative headroom compared to individually processing eligibility
or you could just cut everyone a cheque because economic hardship is going to be inevitable for nearly everyone and it's far better not to let anyone slip through the cracks, especially those most liable in a system to.
also the money is not all going to the people who need it, that's literally what people here are complaining about
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Part of what made UBI attractive was it's potential expidiency. Having people who are sick more likely to stay at home instead of risk others at work due to their own finances, as well as the removal of application processes and screening that slow the distribution of money. If UBI requires parliament and royal assent, that expediency isn't a real factor and a targeted approach is probably better for government finances AND individual households who may require more than a one-time or monthly $1000 proposed by the US treasury.
For example, the emergency care benefit offers $1800 a month to non-EI eligible parents who now need to watch their children. A single parent with two children may pull in upwards of $2400 in April just because the ECB and GST - which is potentially far more helpful than any UBI would be.
There is a gap, particularly involving students, but gaps can be filled. Hopefully they will be.
For example, the emergency care benefit offers $1800 a month to non-EI eligible parents who now need to watch their children. A single parent with two children may pull in upwards of $2400 in April just because the ECB and GST - which is potentially far more helpful than any UBI would be.
There is a gap, particularly involving students, but gaps can be filled. Hopefully they will be.
She was about to get laid off because my doctor diagnosed with Parkinson's so we have to find another different family's doctor to replace.
And I have no idea about this, I will try to ask my mom if she knows about EI.
This sounds like it will help those who are worst off, but as pointed earlier, do nothing for the rest, who are nonetheless very affected. Worse still, everything there reads like something that requires paperwork and burocracy to actually apply for. Just what people love the most in the time of big distress.
Can someone explain the child care benefit aspect is it 300 per child monthly? For everyone or low income?
Just my thought, for those that are saying UBI is the only option, how would you intend to implement it?
1) How do you send a cheque to everyone? The government surely has a list of names/addresses based on their data, but I'm sure that it will be either incomplete or potentially outdated.
2) What happens when the cheques get stolen? Okay, if we do direct deposit, what happens to the people who haven't registered for this? What happens if it goes to an account that no longer exists? You're still going to miss a lot of people.
3) How much will UBI be and how often and for how long? If for example, we follow the USA, $1,000 for everyone (so, roughly $37 billion). Are we going to do this every month? How many months before this no longer works?
This package does seem to target a specific group of individuals, mainly families, and people that are self-employed and now out of work. For those that don't qualify, it sucks, and it is a miss, but I don't think sending everyone a cheque is a long-term solution. The main miss that I see is anyone who is renting. Great for the people who have a mortgage, but renters are going to have a problem fast. I hope there is more coming to address the outstanding concerns.
For those that say, this doesn't help the front-line workers, who are you referring to? The cashier at grocery stores? The nurses? The essential services? What do you expect the government to do for them? You can't specifically target to pay cashiers for example. There is an expectation that the companies will be handling their employees for a period of time (which seems to vary from 0 to 1 month from what I've seen). For the essential services, they may not have signed up for this specific scenario, but I certainly hope that when they applied, they knew what they were getting into. Again, how do you expect the government to handle this?
1) How do you send a cheque to everyone? The government surely has a list of names/addresses based on their data, but I'm sure that it will be either incomplete or potentially outdated.
2) What happens when the cheques get stolen? Okay, if we do direct deposit, what happens to the people who haven't registered for this? What happens if it goes to an account that no longer exists? You're still going to miss a lot of people.
3) How much will UBI be and how often and for how long? If for example, we follow the USA, $1,000 for everyone (so, roughly $37 billion). Are we going to do this every month? How many months before this no longer works?
This package does seem to target a specific group of individuals, mainly families, and people that are self-employed and now out of work. For those that don't qualify, it sucks, and it is a miss, but I don't think sending everyone a cheque is a long-term solution. The main miss that I see is anyone who is renting. Great for the people who have a mortgage, but renters are going to have a problem fast. I hope there is more coming to address the outstanding concerns.
For those that say, this doesn't help the front-line workers, who are you referring to? The cashier at grocery stores? The nurses? The essential services? What do you expect the government to do for them? You can't specifically target to pay cashiers for example. There is an expectation that the companies will be handling their employees for a period of time (which seems to vary from 0 to 1 month from what I've seen). For the essential services, they may not have signed up for this specific scenario, but I certainly hope that when they applied, they knew what they were getting into. Again, how do you expect the government to handle this?
This is already successfully done for various benefit programs like the CCB. It's based on your last tax refund.
Why would full time students need help right now? They still have their source of income until the summer.
Don't they mail cheques to people still? You still get certain government things mailed to you through Canada Post like IDs, Passports, etc.
This will only work for people who've applied for one of those programs. Again, you don't know how out of date the data is. Also, this misses everyone who has not applied with those programs with the government. Example, I haven't filed my taxes last year because I didn't have employment or I knew I didn't owe any taxes and I have since moved. Or, let's take the people who are not in Canada or are no longer Canadian and their data is outdated. Do we still give them money because it's in Canada's database?
I don't mean actually mailing out a cheque, I was referring to how would they know every single citizen and their home address. This is what I meant by it being incomplete or out of date. In your passport scenario, you have to provide them with an address, they don't actually verify it. Let's say you've moved for example.
My point for how to mail is cheque is really that the government does not have an update-to-date database of all Canadians and their address / bank account (whether they do it through cheque or direct deposit). This need to have people 'apply' is to ensure that they now have your details to get money to you. At least that's how I read it. Who knows, when it actually begins and you can apply for the benefits the details might change.
And the result is a lot of red tape and paperwork.
And potential cracks for people in need to fall through
I sure as fuck didn't know when I signed up to be a grocery clerk that I was going to end up drafted into the Frontline of a Pandemic.
Sidenote you shit on giving a cheque to everyone and say targeting is better but when it comes to people like me... oh we can't do targeting there for you. Sorry!
In you specific case, yes, it sucks, and I do understand that you didn't sign up for it. I was really referring to the essential services like nurses, police, etc. Sorry, looking at my comment, I can see why it would read that way. I apologize.
How would you expect the government to compensate you for this? Would UBI actually make you feel better? Because it would be giving a lot of people who aren't in the same situation as you (front-line staff) the same amount of money, but none of the danger.
If you file every year it's up to date. Most people use direct deposit these days.
If it's outdated because someone hasn't filed then you don't get the money. It's been like that for all the other programs, I don't see why it would be different for UBI.
Even if you don't work you're supposed to file as you become automatically eligible for GST/HST credit and other low income support programs.
My friend was confused about this as well. She got laid off Monday and was applying for EI. She was on the phone waiting for almost three hours when she called the employment insurance number. The person on the phone told her that "if you're laid off due to the shutdown (work being closed etc) you just apply for regular benefits and wait a week. the sick benefits are for someone who is in quarantine due to corona virus; as in they have it or they were in contact with someone who had it or are taking care of someone who has it"
