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Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,300
My main takeaway from that is you probably shouldn't pursue a career in voice acting if you strain or damage your voice in just 2-4 hours.
You're treating
-acting is demanding work
-actor's should inherently be able to put themselves through hell without any strain on their part

Which one is it? Acting is either demanding, or it should be easy enough that there's no strain on the actors themselves.
 

Fadewise

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,210
This kind of shit is infuriating.
15 months full time. it included motion capture and acting.
it's a really shitty salary for a lead actor. it's base pay with every voice actor / mocap actor on the same day rate, the only thing that changes is the number of days more important characters get to work. it's 75k/yr and leaves no time to take on extra work.

if someone says 100k is bad, maybe pause for a moment and think 'maybe there is some context I lack which makes that bad' instead of being a fucking idiot about it.

a 3d artist with a little experience managing people would earn double that - in a much more easily replaceable and less critical role.

The notion that there can't exist a middle class of entertainment related professions is ridiculous. 75K/yr is, is firmly in the upper middle class salary range in the US. The notion that just because the profession is public facing it needs to be compared to grossly inflated things like movie acting or professional sports is ridiculous, and completely skews the reality of the industry.
 

MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
100k for a lead in GTA is so low, like holy shit I thought they got waaay more for how much those games sell.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
(1) He worked for 15 months, (2) was paid far above the industry standard for an unknown VA, and (3) I'd love to hear a case for why contracted talent should be paid residuals when salaried developers are not.
The answer is in the question, you are comparing a salary to a fee, though I cannot really talk about the US situation.
 

Neilg

Member
Nov 16, 2017
711
The notion that there can't exist a middle class of entertainment related professions is ridiculous. 75K/yr is, is firmly in the upper middle class salary range in the US. The notion that just because the profession is public facing it needs to be compared to grossly inflated things like movie acting or professional sports is ridiculous, and completely skews the reality of the industry.

Finish reading my post where I compared it to a 3d artist position at the same studio please.
75k/yr is not upper middle class in the us. In a major city 400k is upper middle class in the us.
75k/yr in NYC is still lower class, it being 2x+ the average says more about how low the average has been pushed than it does about the quality of life you can expect to have on double that.

Edit: 100-350 depending on city, I was off by 50k

You should learn what upper middle class actually is before throwing it around when saying someone who made 75k/yr for one of the biggest roles in the single biggest medium of entertainment that they got paid enough. Nobody compared it to sports or movies. He gets paid less than me - with no promise of work at the end of his contract - and I work as a 3d artist.
 
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Dark Mantonio

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,764
I don't know about residuals but Niko's VA seems criminally underpaid.

His performance was front and center in GTA4's advertising, it was definitely a feature used to sell the game and I think his compensation should've reflected that.
 

Monsterqken

Member
Dec 26, 2019
415
You're treating
-acting is demanding work
-actor's should inherently be able to put themselves through hell without any strain on their part

Which one is it? Acting is either demanding, or it should be easy enough that there's no strain on the actors themselves.
Vocal strain comes from bad technique. You need to know what you are doing. That demands training.
Vocal strain after that period of time is pretty weird if you are supposed to be a VOICE actor. Could come down to not knowing how to reset quickly, breathe correctly or just not practicing enough.

It's not hell to do 4 hours of takes. Just warm up properly.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,201
Dark Space
Whenever it comes to the arts you can bet you are going to get a painfully large amount of ignorant takes.
Portions of this forum are extremely confused as to whether they actually support fair practices in the gaming industry.

As soon as we find out someone makes more money than us it's "fuck you, got yours".

This is doubly true when it comes to artists.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,300
Vocal strain comes from bad technique. You need to know what you are doing. That demands training.
Vocal strain after that period of time is pretty weird if you are supposed to be a VOICE actor. Could come down to not knowing how to reset quickly, breathe correctly or just not practicing enough.

It's not hell to do 4 hours of takes. Just warm up properly.
Vocal strain comes regardless based on what's needed.

Can do it for 12 without a problem.
Lmao.
 

Fadewise

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,210
Finish reading my post where I compared it to a 3d artist position at the same studio please.
75k/yr is not upper middle class in the us. In a major city 400k is upper middle class in the us.
75k/yr in NYC is still lower class, it being 2x+ the average says more about how low the average has been pushed than it does about the quality of life you can expect to have on double that.

Edit: 100-350 depending on city, I was off by 50k

You should learn what upper middle class actually is before throwing it around when saying someone who made 75k/yr for one of the biggest roles in the single biggest medium of entertainment that they got paid enough. Nobody compared it to sports or movies. He gets paid less than me - with no promise of work at the end of his contract - and I work as a 3d artist.

Those are household income figures in your link, not individual.
The lowest-income group earned $31,000 or less for a family of three while the lower-middle group earned between $31,000 and $42,000 in 2014, according to Pew Research. At the most affluent levels, upper-middle-income, three-person households earned between $126,000 and $188,000, with the highest-income households topping $188,000 in 2014 earnings.

Also, these are gigs, not salaries, so presumably the person who's making 100K over 15 months is not working exclusively for Rockstar and has other gigs contributing to their total income.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,891
Vocal strain comes from bad technique. You need to know what you are doing. That demands training.
Vocal strain after that period of time is pretty weird if you are supposed to be a VOICE actor. Could come down to not knowing how to reset quickly, breathe correctly or just not practicing enough.

It's not hell to do 4 hours of takes. Just warm up properly.

Can do it for 12 [hours] without a problem.

Dunning-Kruger gone wild.
 

Deleted member 61326

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2019
614
This kind of shit is infuriating.
15 months full time. it included motion capture and acting.
it's a really shitty salary for a lead actor. it's base pay with every voice actor / mocap actor on the same day rate, the only thing that changes is the number of days more important characters get to work. it's 75k/yr and leaves no time to take on extra work.

if someone says 100k is bad, maybe pause for a moment and think 'maybe there is some context I lack which makes that bad' instead of being a fucking idiot about it.

a 3d artist with a little experience managing people would earn double that - in a much more easily replaceable and less critical role.

Nah. I disagree.
Please provide source for your statements that it was 1) 15 months full time and 2) leaves no time for extra work. Also, was the salary/fee negotiated up front so the VA knew was he was getting himself into? Sounds like just another case of hey this was successful give me a stake.
 

Neilg

Member
Nov 16, 2017
711
[
Those are household income figures in your link, not individual.


Also, these are gigs, not salaries, so presumably the person who's making 100K over 15 months is not working exclusively for Rockstar and has other gigs contributing to their total income.

FACTS:
An upper middle class household income in a major city tops out at 350k
He made 75k
He worked 15 months full time. It was a gig because they needed to let him go without severance when the job was done. He was not popping in for a few hours at a time and able to work a second job.
He got paid less than full time salaried artists who also have benefits and 401k matching.

I personally think his salary should have matched those of senior creative staff - ones responsible for the look, feel, and overall final product. All of those are paid a LOT more than 75k/yr
 
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boontobias

Avenger
Apr 14, 2018
9,531
Wasn't there a voice actor strike a couple years back? What ever came out of that... I only remember because Injustice 2 reused and recycled every single recorded line of dialogue
 

ByWatterson

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,302
How about we talk residual checks for the developers who actually make the games, then worry about everyone else.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,506
(1) He worked for 15 months, (2) was paid far above the industry standard for an unknown VA, and (3) I'd love to hear a case for why contracted talent should be paid residuals when salaried developers are not.
"I'd love to hear a case for why contracted talent should make enough money to pay for their own health insurance and other stuff salaried employees take for granted."
 

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,517
The reality is that it is a really low number in comparison to film or TV when something is as successful as GTA IV was. I think everyone on the dev team should get royalties for life BTW. Instead only execs at R* and T2, along with shareholders reap the benefits. Everyone working on GTA V past and present should be rich but the reality is that they aren't because the pay structure isn't fair.

Is it tho? Star Wars and Marvel are notable for picking young or washed up actors for cheap on first films. The argument being that they're not buying the game for that actor, but for the brand name.
 

thisismadness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,445
I'm not sure they should get scale based on how popular a work is. However, if they don't already, I do believe that they should earn additional compensation on re-releases, remasters, ports, ect. And so should everyone else involved in the original project.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,506
What I'm getting at is when something is successful, everyone wants a bigger piece. When something is not successful, you won't hear anyone willing to give anything back to recoup costs and start a new project.
We're still talking about Rockstar, right? Not some company that doesn't exist and is going to go bankrupt unless its employees fund its continued operations?
 

Perfectsil

Member
Nov 8, 2017
940
San Diego
Voice actors just don't sell games like actors do in movies. I'm on this site and know the names of maybe 2 voice actors, cant even tell you what other games Troy work on.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,271
From what I remember it was a gig that took place over multiple years, it's not like he recorded for two weeks and went home with six figures.

GTA 4 also felt particularly crazy when it came to the amount of voice lines. Like when sitting in a taxi you can ask the driver to change the radio station and Niko will name whatever station you selected
 

Monsterqken

Member
Dec 26, 2019
415
send me the video and I'll listen to all 12 hours, no edits, no cuts
Don't want to derail thread even more and can't pm you. Send me a message and I'll send you a take folder, have nothing scheduled until a horror musical in may but I'll promise I will get back to you. Won't be without cuts but you can listen to the take folders that loops over and over until I get it right. Will probably hit ten hours at least.
 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
4,889
Basically, everyone wants to negotiate the George Lucas contract.

Except they don't, because they want a salary rather than a profit share; and they can't, because George Lucas both started and stopped that particular stroke of luck / genius / prescience.

Edit: Oh, also. They're not doing what George Lucas did.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
I understand the argument, but at least they have SAG representation that works to get them decent pay.

Meanwhile game devs are continuously fucked for longer hours for much less pay.
As someone who is both the head of a game dev studio and (at one point, at least) a regularly working voice actor...this.

It's not that voice actors don't deserve proper benefits, but SAG-AFTRA does a fairly good job negotiating rates. I don't care if the game went for millions of copies, one hundred thousand dollars for a voiceover role is very good pay. They do their job well.

Meanwhile, almost zero employees in the games industry have any union representation and they are very frequently overworked, underpaid, and disregarded. Also, a voice actor is generally only involved for a small fraction of the number of hours any normal member of the team is.

Also, someone earlier in this thread was indicating that a character artist is making 150k/yr with little experience? L-O-fucking L.
 

Outrun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,782
From what I read, the VA for GTA only worked "parts of 15 months" for $100K. That is a really good pay for the time worked, in my opinion.



I highly disagree. I believe the people who invested the 100 million into GTA IV should be entitled to the profits. Everyone on that project was paid for their time, that isn't fair?

I am inclined to agree. If you think that you are worth more, then hold out for more during negotiations.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
As someone who is both the head of a game dev studio and (at one point, at least) a regularly working voice actor...this.

It's not that voice actors don't deserve proper benefits, but SAG-AFTRA does a fairly good job negotiating rates. I don't care if the game went for millions of copies, one hundred thousand dollars for a voiceover role is very good pay. They do their job well.

Meanwhile, almost zero employees in the games industry have any union representation and they are very frequently overworked, underpaid, and disregarded. Also, a voice actor is generally only involved for a small fraction of the number of hours any normal member of the team is.
Both developers and voice actors should be treated better
 
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Yuber

Alt Account
Banned
Mar 2, 2020
46
Just because Hollywood does it doesn't mean it's good practice. You think Tom cruise or the friends cast need that residual?

People might go to see a movie because an actor they like is in it, but barely anyone is buying a game because a certain voice actor is in it.

seeing how hard devs work with all those hours, deadlines and crunch seems abit silly for voice actors to complain if a game becomes super successfully that they should get more money.

I just can't fathom how they sulk about 100k not being enough (obviously depending on the game) when the devs are paid less are over worked.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
How about we talk residual checks for the developers who actually make the games, then worry about everyone else.
I can't speak for the US, but in many european countries, the risk of being independent is compensated by the price you ask. Being independent means having to pay everything ordinary devolved to an employer (unemployment/retirement taxes etc) and you won't be considered the same when evaluated for any kind of insurance, when looking for an appartement to loan or asking for any financial service. Form many worker in the performing arts domain, it also means having an agency taking a cut on your gain.
 

Akumatica

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,746
I don't get why so many people seem to be against the idea of residuals in the creative fields especially when it comes to publicly held companies and the biggest gaming franchises. Why shouldn't everyone at that level get residual checks? Why do corporations and share holders deserve it more?

Everyone involved from the developers, voice actors to play testers should get points. When it's that much money being made on things that can be sold for years, ported and remastered in perpetuity, I'm all for everyone getting residuals.
 

Wing Scarab

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,757
As someone who is both the head of a game dev studio and (at one point, at least) a regularly working voice actor...this.

It's not that voice actors don't deserve proper benefits, but SAG-AFTRA does a fairly good job negotiating rates. I don't care if the game went for millions of copies, one hundred thousand dollars for a voiceover role is very good pay. They do their job well.

Meanwhile, almost zero employees in the games industry have any union representation and they are very frequently overworked, underpaid, and disregarded. Also, a voice actor is generally only involved for a small fraction of the number of hours any normal member of the team is.

Also, someone earlier in this thread was indicating that a character artist is making 150k/yr with little experience? L-O-fucking L.
I laughed at that. The person who said that must be fucking delusional. I'm a 3D artist and I fucking wish I was making anywhere close that.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
FACTS:
An upper middle class household income in a major city tops out at 350k
He made 75k
He worked 15 months full time. It was a gig because they needed to let him go without severance when the job was done. He was not popping in for a few hours at a time and able to work a second job.
He got paid less than full time salaried artists who also have benefits and 401k matching.

I personally think his salary should have matched those of senior creative staff - ones responsible for the look, feel, and overall final product. All of those are paid a LOT more than 75k/yr
www.eurogamer.net

Niko actor prepared for GTA "backlash"

Niko Bellic actor Michael Hollick has said he was "almost more ready for [critical] backlash than for anything else" in…
The motion capture was be recorded first and with the other actors around. And then, sometimes months later, he went to a studio on his own to do facial animations and voice work.
If he had months between sessions I'm sure he had time to do other things.
75k/year is well above the median NYC game dev salary from my experience.