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Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,568
Voice actors in games are immensely replaceable. The numnber of really talented people out there, whose names you've never heard of, who have the chameleon like ability to sound like a variety of characters if not *any* character is staggering. Many games could probably get away with hiring one or two or three actors to perform the roles of the entire cast and with talented hires no one would be the wiser.

Some of us enthusiasts recognize and appreciate particular actors in our games, but generally no one cares, and people don't buy games because of an actor being in them (unlike with movies) so you can understand why they don't get a big piece of the action or any piece of it. Like with anyone else they should be paid fairly for their talent and hard work, of course, but it's just not comparable to movies if anyone ever suggested it should be.

In the case of Niko, you could go find hundreds of unknown actors who could do the russian accent voice just fine and none of the players would have cared one way or the other. $100k sounds like a good paycheck for one role. Lots of other people probably worked harder and longer on the game for less money than that.
Very this. Comparing games vs movies in terms of who's who is absolutely apples to oranges, as is looking at it as a % of opening revenue. Games are not movies

Sure it would be good to pay them more; it would be good to pay all creatives more. But, as others have pointed out, devs should come first, and no doubt it's tricky math.

I don't have time to watch the full video, but what are the unfortunate points that get brought up?
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
8,198
It's funny to hear Troy Baker complain about money, considering he ran a PledgeMusic campaign charging $30 a pop for CDs he, to this day has never delivered or commented on.



What happened to MY money, Troy? What about the other backers? Where'd that money go?
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,403
this whole situation feels like when field hockey players here decided to complain about their sports salaries using Messi as the example

Comparing yourself to the outliers of the industry doesnt do your case any favours
 

Monsterqken

Member
Dec 26, 2019
415
User banned (3 days): trolling over a series of posts
Voice acting is not really demanding work and loads of people can do it. 100k seems a bit much to be honest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,427
Silicon Valley
I do think VA and mocap actors especially don't get enough for what they do. $100K may sound like a lot but how many months over how many years was it for? Some of these jobs take 2-3 years or even more.

However, as noted by others they at least have gone through a strike, have SAG now, and thus far more protections and options than many of the developers who are being worked beyond their means. That needs to change.

It's funny to hear Troy Baker complain about money, considering he ran a PledgeMusic campaign charging $30 a pop for CDs he, to this day has never delivered or commented on.



What happened to MY money, Troy? What about the other backers? Where'd that money go?

Clicking the link in that tweet brings up this statement:

A winding up order was made against Pledgemusic.com Limited in the High Court of Justice on 31 July 2019.

As a result of the making of the order, the Official Receiver becomes liquidator of the company. Any enquiries should be forwarded to [email protected], quoting reference LQD5671373.

Obviously thats a couple years later, but I wonder how long things were stuck in court.
 

Kolibri

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,997
I don't know how many hours was worked for that 100k, so it's difficult to comment on.
What I do see is that people bring up the amount of money that GTA made, as to say that the voice actors deserve more money because the game performed exceptionally well. I'm not sure if I agree with that... The voice actors were hired for the job, and got paid to do the job. While they obviously have a large part in making the game, they don't have to carry any of the risks should the game fail, right? It doesn't sound unfair to me to pay the voice actors a fixed amount.
 

Zultima

Member
Mar 4, 2020
601
Income unfortunately isn't about how hard you work, it's about the demand for what you bring to the table. Big hollywood actors get those checks because the demand for them gives them negotiating power.
 

Wing Scarab

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,757
I don't know how many hours was worked for that 100k, so it's difficult to comment on.
What I do see is that people bring up the amount of money that GTA made, as to say that the voice actors deserve more money because the game performed exceptionally well. I'm not sure if I agree with that... The voice actors were hired for the job, and got paid to do the job. While they obviously have a large part in making the game, they don't have to carry any of the risks should the game fail, right? It doesn't sound unfair to me to pay the voice actors a fixed amount.
I agree with 100% you say except for the bold part. I don't believe they have a large part in making the game at all. I mean there are plenty of games out there made without any voice actors and those games perform very well.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,625
A game having no voiced dialog is not something that will prevent most people from purchasing a video game. Plenty of games are text only, and they are very successful. Silent Movies on the other hand, stopped being a major thing 100 yrs ago. In one industry its necessary, the other not so much. Pay refects that.
 

Darío

Member
Oct 27, 2017
72
It sounds like it'd be a nightmare to handle in games that have multiple dubs for international releases.

An important actor in a movie still has a lot of marketing value even if the movie is dubbed over. That's not the same in animated features or games (unless you literally recreate the actor's image).
 

Neilg

Member
Nov 16, 2017
711

"Only" $100000. For how many hours of work?

This kind of shit is infuriating.
15 months full time. it included motion capture and acting.
it's a really shitty salary for a lead actor. it's base pay with every voice actor / mocap actor on the same day rate, the only thing that changes is the number of days more important characters get to work. it's 75k/yr and leaves no time to take on extra work.

if someone says 100k is bad, maybe pause for a moment and think 'maybe there is some context I lack which makes that bad' instead of being a fucking idiot about it.

a 3d artist with a little experience managing people would earn double that - in a much more easily replaceable and less critical role.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
9,934
Voice acting is not really demanding work and loads of people can do it. 100k seems a bit much to be honest.
A lot less people can do it to an acceptable standard than you think let alone do it really well. It's a talent that requires a lot of training and financial commitment early on in life for no guarantee that you'll actually get work.
People seem to think actors just turn up and "act" and thats it. A bad performance can ruin a project and a good one can make it.
The last Of Us, for example would have been all for nothing without the stellar performances from everybody involved.
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
12,968
Gotta love ppl in this thread deadass saying that the VA for the protag of one of the most successful games of all time shouldn't get paid residuals lmfao. The game made a couple hundred million in like one month and $100K is "too much"? Some real Parasite shit

i hope the whole main cast of RDR2 got paid residuals (Arthur Morgan's VA at the very least).
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
I remember some story about the main villain of Fallout 4 not knowing he was the main villain and would have asked for more money if he had.

Sure, voice actors aren't essential but they absolutely make a difference to how a playable character feels
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,053
Voice acting is not really demanding work and loads of people can do it. 100k seems a bit much to be honest.

See, now that's unfairly trivializing their work. They work hard, and it's not something just anyone off the street can do. That said, I personally think they deserve fair compensation - same as any other dev - but not residuals.
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
I highly disagree. I believe the people who invested the 100 million into GTA IV should be entitled to the profits. Everyone on that project was paid for their time, that isn't fair?
That isn't fair and this is what is wrong with capitalism. We only award investors and not the people actually responsible for producing the product. The investors didn't crunch 80+ hours a week for a year or more to make the game. And I can assure you that the devs weren't compensated "fairly."
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,317
Voice acting is not really demanding work and loads of people can do it. 100k seems a bit much to be honest.
These days it's not just about voice acting. Which again, is also demanding work to put in a good performance. For the majority of AAA games actors don't just sit in a booth to record their lines, they have to act out the role. It's a lot of very physical work and everyone involved treats it like they're shooting a movie because in essence, they are. With props, sets, etc. especially for games with bigger budgets and lengthy cinematics. Loads of people can do it, but there are a lot of stories from people not used to this sort of thing having to get used to it.





In this day and age where people consider 15-20 to be on the shorter side, games have more cinematics than ever.

Rockstar games especially, have inarguably the most motion capture in them considering the amount of cinematics they make not just for the main stories but also huge casts of characters that you can meet. Which amounts to the length of multiple movies. And this is MINUS, the amount of time spent in the booth recording dialogue for the bits that aren't cinematics.. Like seriously this is such a stupid take tbh.
 
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Squishy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
811
Video games are very different from film and TV though. They're not the face of the product the same way an actor is. People will see a movie solely because Tom Hanks or some other celebrity plays a starring role. I would never consider for a second playing a game just because Troy Baker voiced a character, and he's one of the few voice actors I can even name.
This is going to become muddier and muddier over time, though. We've been doing mocap since the PS2 generation, actors are getting their faces scanned in and doing facial mocap, and there's still general woes about the voice actor industry in games like Troy not being called back for Rhys in Borderlands 3 because Gearbox went non-union. Everyone should be treated well, as everyone on all fronts is putting in more and more work to make these projects a reality at cost to their own health more often than not in the AAA space.
 

kiaaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,848
VAs don't have the same draw as movie stars. Most people couldn't name a single VA, but they could rattle off 100 actors.
 

stuckpixel

Member
Dec 27, 2017
240
In any industry where the profits scale out of proportion to the cost of the product (pretty much all of software development), key players, regardless of roles, should be able to negotiate for participation in those profits.
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,618
lmao at folks in here acting like voice actors go into a recording booth, read their lines for a few hours, and then walk out with a check for $100,000. These big AAA projects take years of work. The cast of RDR2 said they worked on that game for five years.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,317
I mean, you spend 2-3-7 days working on VA and its over and you move on to other stuff, 100000 $ for 1 week is great. Even if it is for the biggest thing on the planet.
Lmao you think it takes one week to record a game when you're the lead character in a Rockstar game? Or any AAA game released in this day and age?
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,892
Lmao you think it takes one week to record a game when you're the lead character in a Rockstar game? Or any AAA game released in this day and age?

A lot of people seem to have taken their understanding of this job from Krusty the Clown...



Can you please enlighten me about the time needed please? 1 month?

Sam Witwer said that he was working on Day's Gone for "almost four years". Now, he doesn't say how many hours a week he was working during that stretch of time (I doubt it is like a 9-5 type of job), but it sounds like he put a decent amount of work in...

 
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That isn't fair and this is what is wrong with capitalism. We only award investors and not the people actually responsible for producing the product. The investors didn't crunch 80+ hours a week for a year or more to make the game. And I can assure you that the devs weren't compensated "fairly."

The investors are the ones who put the money into these projects to make them happen in the first place!!!

A dev can work on a project, get paid, and move onto the next project.

What If the project flops? Those employees still get paid (except in some shitty situations like the company goes bankrupt while still owing salaries), but it's the investors who are out millions of dollars. The investors put up all the risk, they should get all of the reward. What is the problem with that?

Just to be clear, I think all employees should be given a fair wage. Crunch I think is fine, so long as overtime is being paid out or banked.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,008
Some of the posts in this thread are moronic. No wonder people in the industry get treated like shit, the fans either support it or are too dumb to care.
 

Monsterqken

Member
Dec 26, 2019
415
These days it's not just about voice acting. Which again, is also demanding work to put in a good performance. For the majority of AAA games actors don't just sit in a booth to record their lines, they have to act out the role. It's a lot of very physical work and everyone involved treats it like they're shooting a movie because in essence, they are. With props, sets, etc. especially for games with bigger budgets and lengthy cinematics. Loads of people can do it, but there are a lot of stories from people not used to this sort of thing having to get used to it.





In this day and age where people consider 15-20 to be on the shorter side, games have more cinematics than ever.

Rockstar games especially, have inarguably the most motion capture in them considering the amount of cinematics they make not just for the main stories but also huge casts of characters that you can meet. Which amounts to the length of multiple movies. And this is MINUS, the amount of time spent in the booth recording dialogue for the bits that aren't cinematics.. Like seriously this is such a stupid take tbh.

For movies/mo-cap you hardly do any prep-work. For the stage it's still just 2-8 weeks.
It's not like these actors are doing anything but average work, and you can find tons of actors with years and years of training to do the job.
Even if he came in to shoot several times over two years 100k is decent pay. An american plumber earns about 50 k yearly and they are more in demand than actors.

Acting is not that complex and you still have an abundance of people with 7+ years of training. Lots of trained people essentially do it for free because of their love for the craft. Some people even pay for the opportunity to act.
Why overpay?
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,043
Can you please enlighten me about the time needed please? 1 month?

A couple things to consider here;

Assuming the VA is just doing this one gig, there could be a lot going on here. We have to consider if this script is complete, much less final. We have to consider whether lines will be added; we have to consider whether lines will be dropped and reworked, requiring more re-recordings. A lot of AAA devs are requiring mo-cap along side with acting now, assuming one take was properly voiced and mo-capped at least at the time, and something down the line changes, do we have to bring this actor back in for more motion capture and a re-recording? What if the voice acting and mo-cap involves a fair amount of stunt work like the Devil May Cry games? Well shit, now we have to look into the stunt side as well (off the top of my head, we're accounting for choreography, making sure the team can translate that into the game, getting the space necessary to do all of this, getting the stunt team needed to do all of this safely, etc, etc).

I'm probably not even scratching the surface for the logistics assuming it's complicated (and not just something like calling an anime voice actor into a booth for a few hours, which in of itself is underpaid and there's a reason those actors jump from gig to gig to gig), but I can understand how it would take several months into a few years easy.

And even with all of that under consideration, how are these actors getting paid? They probably aren't getting paid up-front for this, it might be hours allotted, might be paid at the end. Either way, getting $100,000 for something that you have worked on for four-five years is pretty terrible.
 

LazyLain

Member
Jan 17, 2019
6,495
Either everybody who worked on the game should get residuals, or nobody should. Personally I lean more towards the former, but I definitely don't think voice actors specifically should feel owed residuals just because movie stars get 'em.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
www.gamesoundcon.com

Can Video Game Composers Get Royalties?

Do game composers get royalties like film or TV composers do? Short answer is "probably not", the long answer is... "It's
www.gamesindustry.biz

Six ways video game composers are missing out on money

You don't need to blow the dust off of your Super Nintendo or PlayStation to revisit your favourite video game soundtra…

Two articles regarding the current situation in music.
I was totally ignoring there is a special deal for musicians on the PlayStation EU network. 🧐

A game having no voiced dialog is not something that will prevent most people from purchasing a video game. Plenty of games are text only, and they are very successful. Silent Movies on the other hand, stopped being a major thing 100 yrs ago. In one industry its necessary, the other not so much. Pay refects that.
I am not sure about the success of a muted Rockstar game.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,317
You don't know what you're talking about
Wdym, forcing yourself to cry on demand to do an emotional scene is not demanding work.


and it's especially not more demanding to do that sort of emotion outside of the booth and on a set. /s

Can you please enlighten me about the time needed please? 1 month?
Consider the following, AAA games tend to have over an hr and a half of cinematics at the very least. That's usually the average. Most AAA games these days feature extensive performance capture and have larger casts than what we used to get. Scenes are not recorded in a linear fashion. And each scene has to have, a shit ton of takes. That's not counting reshoots or rewrites. Sets and props have to be built. And again, we're only talking about the performance capture, not the time spent in the booth recording lines for in game dialogue, which again, is a shit ton of takes. We're long past the time where say, Nolan North would record literally all of his lines for Desmond in a single day and be done with that project until the sequel. Especially for lead characters. For some perspective, TLOU Part 2 was announced in 2016. So all the tech and mocap was being worked on, in that timeframe. They wrapped up shooting for cinematics three years later.


This game will most likely not have as many cinematics as RDR2 or Death Stranding. And these scenes are recorded

"Scene 1 of the game------>last scene of the game"

They're always out of order. While the actor/actress is working on multiple projects at the same time. Flying from place to place. And having to keep track of these characters, their quirks, inflection, cadences etc. for an extended period of time.

For movies/mo-cap you hardly do any prep-work. For the stage it's still just 2-8 weeks.
It's not like these actors are doing anything but average work, and you can find tons of actors with years and years of training to do the job.
Even if he came in to shoot several times over two years 100k is decent pay. An american plumber earns about 50 k yearly and they are more in demand than actors.
Actors put in a ton of work to bring these characters to life, (the animators and everyone else involved to). It is absolutely not average work or the result of a lack of prep. It's not just, "Ok let's record the scenes k done."

Acting is not that complex
You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Holy shit.
 
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Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,516
We really doing this "actor's job was easy he's lucky to have that job" bootlicking again aren't we.
 

KillingJoke

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,672
I think there should definitely be some type of bonus for everyone involved if the game sells X amount of money. But a piece of every copy sold would be very unlikely.
 

Gnorman

Banned
Jan 14, 2018
2,945
He was essentially the lead actor. These games make like a billion dollars. Voice actors should be paid appropriately for their critical roles. $100,000 over several years is WAY too little for a GTA game.
Their roles are not critical though. 99.9% of people buying the game couldn't care less who the VA's are.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
He was essentially the lead actor. These games make like a billion dollars. Voice actors should be paid appropriately for their critical roles. $100,000 over several years is WAY too little for a GTA game.
(1) He worked for 15 months, (2) was paid far above the industry standard for an unknown VA, and (3) I'd love to hear a case for why contracted talent should be paid residuals when salaried developers are not.