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Worldshaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,933
Michigan
This collection is so so good. Emulation obviously seems perfect so far. I've played mostly SD3, but I did put an hour into the beginning of SoM, and FFA just to see how they looked.

I don't mind the Trials of Mana remake being single player given how it's fully 3D as opposed to the 2D SoM remake. Not a huge deal considering theres so many good co-op RPG options these days. Back in the 90's it was a rare treat. My buddy and I were bummed to find out Evermore wasn't co-op since we played through Mana a good 4-5x together.

I wish this series much success. I'd love to see the series get some new life, and fans. What an important franchise this is to me.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
9. The developers had no idea there was a cult following in the West thanks to a fan translation at first. After the project was greenlit, the developers began searching on the internet about it and found the fan translation for the first time.

It honestly blows my mind that they were working on a remake of SD3 but did not know this. Even just a look at the Wikipedia article tells you it. Square Enix could be so much better if they actually knew their own fanbase.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,529
not really,
it's a full 3D game.
If they wanted to implement co op in a way that made sense like the original , it means implementing lan or online co op.
as split screen makes no sense for this.


They noticed us sempai!!!
Decades of whinning on the internet helped!

So guys, you know the drill.
Let's make Legend happen again!
There's nightmare mode to finish!

That is actually interesting.
Nintendo probably has the assembly version of all the games released on their platforms.
This means that there is a conservation effort at Nintendo and it's probably rather extensive.

Keep in mind, for cartridge games Nintendo manufactured the retail product for their third parties, so yeah. They definitely would have that code. I imagine that's why the Virtual Console was so easy for them.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
I'm glad they remember that the Secret of Mana battle system had a name ("Motion Battle System"). Back then a lot of Square battle systems had names (SD3's "Linear Motion Battle", FFT's "Count Time Battle", Chrono Cross's "Cross Sequence Battle", etc.), but most people only remember "Active Time Battle".
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
Keep in mind, for cartridge games Nintendo manufactured the retail product for their third parties, so yeah. They definitely would have that code. I imagine that's why the Virtual Console was so easy for them.
Yes, it's true, they did ALL the manufacturing of cartridges back in the day, it's even why the move to CDs impacted them that way since they didn't have control of the production anymore.
This means they have a library of all the games they manufactured regardless of region.
I think we have enough info to make a thread about this.

I'm glad they remember that the Secret of Mana battle system had a name ("Motion Battle System"). Back then a lot of Square battle systems had names (SD3's "Linear Motion Battle", Chrono Cross's "Cross Sequence Battle", etc.), but most people only remember "Active Time Battle".
I think it's because they patented a lot of that to begin with so it would make sense that they all had a name for all the different system they had.
For Mana, people only remember the Ring menu system lol
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,075
So is that like a StarFox 2 case where the officially-translated versions already existed but were shelved and just now released, or did they just recently hack the Japanese ROM to create this translation?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,529
So is that like a StarFox 2 case where the officially-translated versions already existed but were shelved and just now released, or did they just recently hack the Japanese ROM to create this translation?

This is a new translation. The ROM dump English speakers have been playing for years was a fan translation.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
So is that like a StarFox 2 case where the officially-translated versions already existed but were shelved and just now released, or did they just recently hack the Japanese ROM to create this translation?
Probably the later, we know from fan translations that the game couldn't really use the original character names in alphabetical languages because they're far too long.
We have no protoype or anything for a potential english version of the game.
From old interviews and people who seemingly worked for Squaresoft in the US (or whoever they contracted out), localization was never even considered for this game.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,529
Probably the later, we know from fan translations that the game couldn't really use the original character names in alphabetical languages because they're far too long.
We have no protoype or anything for a potential english version of the game.
From old interviews and people who seemingly worked for Squaresoft in the US (or whoever they contracted out), localization was never even considered for this game.

If memory serves, SD3 used a special cartridge that cost more to manufacture than a typical SNES game, so I wouldn't be surprised if Squaresoft didn't think it was financially viable to localize it.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
If memory serves, SD3 used a special cartridge that cost more to manufacture than a typical SNES game, so I wouldn't be surprised if Squaresoft didn't think it was financially viable to localize it.
From memory, the cart wasn't a FX cart (no additional pins on the sides of the huge controller under the cart, compare Starfox to Super Mario world).
But the game may have required additional chips and it was a 32Mb cart so that would have proven to be really expensive.
for PAL games I think only Dragon Ball Z Hyperdimension was a game of that size (ok maybe super street fighter 2?).
It's probably a mix of the game breaking bugs and the cost of the manufacture that killed any chance of localization.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
I pre-ordered the physical edition but I want to play it now, god damnit. :( I end up with paying 80 bucks doesn't I? :D
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,529
From memory, the cart wasn't a FX cart (no additional pins on the sides of the huge controller under the cart, compare Starfox to Super Mario world).
But the game may have required additional chips and it was a 32Mb cart so that would have proven to be really expensive.
for PAL games I think only Dragon Ball Z Hyperdimension was a game of that size (ok maybe super street fighter 2?).
It's probably a mix of the game breaking bugs and the cost of the manufacture that killed any chance of localization.

Correct, it wasn't an FX game but it did have other stuff inside that drove the price up.
 

Deleted member 43657

User requested account closure
Banned
May 19, 2018
5,115
Which three characters should you start with if you're not great at action games and want to see the ending?

Does it matter who you pick in terms of story?
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
This remake made me realize I've been looking at some the characters designs wrong all these years.
The remake is actually very true to the illustrations of the characters from the promotional material of the original game, but I suspect that the very original designs were done by Shinichi Kameoka for the menu art (they look very similar to the art from Legend of Mana and Sword of Mana), which the sprites were based on, and then when Nobuteru Yūki did the illustrations he changed some details around.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,529
Which three characters should you start with if you're not great at action games and want to see the ending?

Does it matter who you pick in terms of story?

Duran and Angela have the same final boss, then Liese and Hawkeye have the same one, and Kevin and Charlotte have the same one too.

The easiest final boss is Charlotte's if you awaken her into a High Priest because her Turn Undead spell absolutely obliterates it. But that also requires using Charlotte, which is...woof.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
Screw it I just pre-ordered the physical.

I have the Super Famicom cart and an SD2SNES to play the translation... But I've been pining for an English release for this for decades. And here it is, care of M2 no less. I might as well throw a couple bucks toward it.
 
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SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
Which three characters should you start with if you're not great at action games and want to see the ending?

Does it matter who you pick in terms of story?
There are three different versions of the story, based on who you pick as your main character. The biggest difference between these stories is which final dungeon and final boss you get.

This isn't a very action heavy game though, it leans much harder on the RPG elements. If you use the two mage characters, you will probably spend more time navigating menus to cast spells than actually attacking or dodging things.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
There are three different versions of the story, based on who you pick as your main character. The biggest difference between these stories is which final dungeon and final boss you get.

This isn't a very action heavy game though, it leans much harder on the RPG elements. If you use the two mage characters, you will probably spend more time navigating menus to cast spells than actually attacking or dodging things.
Spells against high level mobs may prove to be unwise if they counter with their strongest attacks right away.
My advice would be to get strong melee fighters and a major healer to button mash your way to victory.
Also manually heal whenever needed.
 

Lastdancer

Member
Nov 1, 2017
644
Spells against high level mobs may prove to be unwise if they counter with their strongest attacks right away.
My advice would be to get strong melee fighters and a major healer to button mash your way to victory.
Also manually heal whenever needed.

Some counter the higher level techs too, don't they?
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
Some counter the higher level techs too, don't they?
Oh yeah.
It's mostly high level tech they counter actually.
If the screen is frozen by the skill used, the high level mob will counter with the strongest weapon in their arsenal.
if there are 4 foes, that means 4 screen clearing tech countering your characters.
You WILL end up dead regardless.
I'll let you imagine what happens when you try to combo 2 to 3 techs that way
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,514
Chicagoland
Diehard GameFan previews & review from the mid 90s.

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Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
2,996
Which three characters should you start with if you're not great at action games and want to see the ending?

Does it matter who you pick in terms of story?

Yes, it matters who you pick in terms of story. There are three factions warring for control in the world and the faction associated with your main character (the first one you pick) ends up coming out on top and you fight their final bosses in their final dungeon. Charlotte's/Kevin's final boss is generally considered the easiest (though the penultimate boss of their route is a real doozy) especially if you make Charlotte follow the Light-Light route.

The game's not really action-based anyway. You move around, try to hit enemies with the tip of your weapon and try to avoid wading into enemy mobs during your cooldown animation and that's pretty much it. Almost all enemy skills that you need to actually worry about automatically hit, so there's not that much dodging involved either.

Anyway, there are lots of powerful teams, but if you're going with Charlotte in the Light - Light route, which gives her saber magic and Turn Undead eventually, you want some heavy hitters to balance her own lack of physical DPS. I'd suggest picking Riesz going the Light - Dark route (which gives her multi-target stat buffs, a full-screen level 2 tech and eventually a summon that mutes everything on-screen, making the issue of deadly counters irrelevant) and Hawkeye going the Dark - Dark route. (which gives him stat debuffs, a lethal full-screen level 3 tech, a single-target muting skill and a nasty Max HP debuff that shaves 20% of a boss' HP off right at the start of a battle) The combination of buffs, debuffs, sabres (including saint saber) and Heal Light will make certain your party will easily outlast later encounters.

Oh yeah.
It's mostly high level tech they counter actually.
If the screen is frozen by the skill used, the high level mob will counter with the strongest weapon in their arsenal.
if there are 4 foes, that means 4 screen clearing tech countering your characters.
You WILL end up dead regardless.
I'll let you imagine what happens when you try to combo 2 to 3 techs that way

I don't think there are actually ever 4 enemies on the screen at once anyway. ;) IIRC, the limit is set at 3. I could be wrong though. It's been a while since I played. It's also very rarely that you run into 3 enemies at once who have access to high-level techs. The whole "death counter" issue is mostly a final dungeon problem anyway since enemies with powerful counters don't appear THAT often during most of the game. And depending on the character, if you punched said enemies often enough to fill up your tech bar to the max, there's a very high chance that your level 3 tech blows them up before they can retaliate.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,560
This is becoming my favorite SNES RPG ever, and that's like crazy high praise from me. I really, really like this game -- it has so much warmth and detail to it that many RPGs did not have at the time.

I'll get the remake regardless -- it looks beautiful -- but this is one of the best SNES games I've ever played.
 

1upsuper

Member
Jan 30, 2018
5,485
I know this is a tad off topic but how long is Final Fantasy Adventure? I'm planning to play these in order and I'm trying to figure out if I can binge the first in a day or if I should take it slow.

I looove Game Boy games so I'm having a great time with it so far.
This is becoming my favorite SNES RPG ever, and that's like crazy high praise from me. I really, really like this game -- it has so much warmth and detail to it that many RPGs did not have at the time.

I'll get the remake regardless -- it looks beautiful -- but this is one of the best SNES games I've ever played.
I feel like I can trust your opinion given your EO name and DQ avatar, so you've got me excited to play it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,300
First time I played it, and I'm really enjoying it so far. It's damn near a next-gen game - I thought FF6 and Chrono Trigger were pretty games but this is amazing.

So far the battles are a bit chaotic and I haven't found many spells to use, but it's good fun. It seems I will need to make Kevin a healer to make up for the rest of my team. Going through candy like it is... candy.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
2,996
The only characters who get any spells/skills at all before class change are Charlotte and Angela.

If you're having trouble healing, I suggest buying Poto Oils at the black market in Byzel. They heal your characters just like a normal recovery item does, but they get stronger as the user's spirit stat raises and they can be multi-targetted, meaning you can use one to recover from party hitting attacks instead of having to use three pieces of candy.
 

rics2980

Member
Oct 28, 2017
157
Can this version be played co-op with both joycons or do you need a separate controller as well?
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
I don't think there are actually ever 4 enemies on the screen at once anyway. ;) IIRC, the limit is set at 3. I could be wrong though. It's been a while since I played. It's also very rarely that you run into 3 enemies at once who have access to high-level techs. The whole "death counter" issue is mostly a final dungeon problem anyway since enemies with powerful counters don't appear THAT often during most of the game. And depending on the character, if you punched said enemies often enough to fill up your tech bar to the max, there's a very high chance that your level 3 tech blows them up before they can retaliate.
I distincly remember the Luna dungeon having some mob groups with at least 3 werewolves that proved grieving.
it's also around that time when you're in the last stretch before the character specific end dungeon where the enemies are ALWAYS over your level by 3 or so.
It's not a thing to worry for a long time and even then when it happens you kinda can see it coming because the enemies that do that are more humanoid AND are significantly stronger then the rest.
I think you're right on the limit of 3 although I would have to replay it to be sure....late August can't come soon enough.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,766
$40 was a bit much, and I wasn't going to, but then I had a few beers and said fuck it. Haven't even turned on my Switch since Octopath Traveler last year. Also allowed me to finally get that free Nintendo Online thing going from Twitch Plus.
 

Kubricks

Member
Oct 31, 2017
913
Anyone knows if the crits and dodge rate works now or is it just a direct port with all the small bugs?
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,981
Splatlandia
Spells against high level mobs may prove to be unwise if they counter with their strongest attacks right away.
My advice would be to get strong melee fighters and a major healer to button mash your way to victory.
Also manually heal whenever needed.
I didn't know this was a thing! Could explain the pain train I get sent on.
 

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
Still curious if the other two games got new translations or if they're using the original localizations. Can anyone confirm?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
United States
I cant believe I actually get to play an official localization of this game.
Holy shit. This was the game that sent me down the road of learning Japanese.
I bought a Japanese copy. Later, I bought a fan translated repro. Now, I have the real thing. Good lord, this is a surreal time to be alive.

Good God, the tunes...its all coming back. Between this and ff8 remake, it's nice to see square show some respect for its amazing back catalog.

I used to think a xenogears remake sounded crazy but I just saw square announce a remake of Seiken densetsu 3 and then release the original in english the same day. Anything is possible.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,255
Midgar, With Love
I cant believe I actually get to play an official localization of this game.
Holy shit. This was the game that sent me down the road of learning Japanese.
I bought a Japanese copy. Later, I bought a fan translated repro. Now, I have the real thing. Good lord, this is a surreal time to be alive.

Good God, the tunes...its all coming back. Between this and ff8 remake, it's nice to see square show some respect for its amazing back catalog.

I used to think a xenogears remake sounded crazy but I just saw square announce a remake of Seiken densetsu 3 and then release the original in english the same day. Anything is possible.

Oh my god yes. A return to Xenogears would make my decade.