Totally Normal: Lakeland 11-year-old arrested for confrontation after refusal to stand for Pledge

MinusTydus · Feb 17, 2019

The district handbook explicitly states that kids can opt out "upon written authorization from parent."

Why the fuck does it need to be in writing?

How stupid is that teacher asking a child, why they don't leave the country? You. Are. A. Teacher! You shouldn't have to ask an 11-year-old boy why they don't move! Did she get her teaching certification for free with the purchase of a Big Mac? Christ.

Koo · Feb 17, 2019

Smiles said:
for anyone who wants to share this story from a website don't blocked by a subscription

https://www.theroot.com/11-year-old-boy-arrested-for-refusing-to-recite-racist-1832685230

still hope someone gets sued

Don't really like that last bit about having to get a note from a parent. Kids should not be forced by anyone to have to say the pledge. If the parent agreed with the school it's still taking away the kid's freedom of expression. Why is this so difficult, just let kids say the pledge or opt out on their own? What harm does not saying the pledge cause to anybody?

Antrax · Feb 17, 2019

If the school/cops didn't know the kid could sit for the pledge, they're about to find out (to the tune of punitive damages).

My school in rural MS was smart enough to drop the pledge altogether when I was in like 3rd grade. Not in good faith I'm sure (they just always ran from any potential controversy; think Greendale Human Being territory), but still, it was nice.

Smiles · Feb 17, 2019

Koo said:
Don't really like that last bit about having to get a note from a parent. Kids should not be forced by anyone to have to say the pledge. If the parent agreed with the school it's still taking away the kid's freedom of expression. Why is this so difficult, just let kids say the pledge or opt out on their own? What harm does not saying the pledge cause to anybody?

seriously they treat kids like shit in school, and we wonder why they don't simply obey anymore.

Deleted member 12177 · Feb 17, 2019

Smiles said:
for anyone who wants to share this story from a website don't blocked by a subscription

https://www.theroot.com/11-year-old-boy-arrested-for-refusing-to-recite-racist-1832685230

Thank you for this. This adds more relevant details to the original article. A few points of note:

- The teacher seems to be an immigrant from Cuba
- The detainment was by a school resource officer who was called in by the sub
- There's some quotes by the student, the sub and the police dept which need to be corroborated by the student body. I'd be curious if there's CCTV footage of the incident

Deleted member 8468 · Feb 17, 2019

Yeah, that 11 year old totally should have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and found a better place to live. Kids these days sheesh...

Deleted member 5359 · Feb 17, 2019

ACLU tooling up

Mammoth Jones · Feb 17, 2019

electroshockwave said:
What exactly does resisting arrest without violence entail? Are you supposed to handcuff yourself?

It basically means you have annoyed a white person by not mindlessly obeying them.

excelsiorlef · Feb 17, 2019

RobertR1 said:
Thank you for this. This adds more relevant details to the original article. A few points of note:

- The teacher seems to be an immigrant from Cuba
- The detainment was by a school resource officer who was called in by the sub
- There's some quotes by the student, the sub and the police dept which need to be corroborated by the student body. I'd be curious if there's CCTV footage of the incident

So are you ready to admit the teacher was wrong and racist, and that the student was unjustly arrested?

Or nah?

Mammoth Jones · Feb 17, 2019

Baconmonk said:
Yeah, that 11 year old totally should have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and found a better place to live. Kids these days sheesh...

Word.

Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg

Deleted member 3093 · Feb 17, 2019

RobertR1 said:
You might have access to more data but I dont have information on the sub outside of her occupation and employer to arrive at that conclusion.

She got a black kid arrested for not saying the pledge.

entrydenied · Feb 17, 2019

RobertR1 said:
Seems like a misunderstanding. The substitute teacher was from a staffing firm and not upto speed on the rules of the school. The subs comment was wildly inappropriate and likely opens up the school/agency to liability.

"
Kennedy said he could not discuss the student's discipline. He said Alvarez will no longer serve as a substitute in Polk County Public Schools and that they will be reviewing their training policy with the outside agency that handles hiring substitute teachers.

"Our HR department will contact Kelly Services, which provides our substitutes, to further refine how our substitutes are trained," Kennedy said."

A good course of action by the school.

A misunderstanding would be giving a kid detention when they didn't do anything wrong. They called the police and got this 11 year old arrested. It's ridiculous.

Hyun Sai · Feb 17, 2019

I'm not sure if I should be surprised that piece of shit got a defense force. A 11 years old refusing to do the pledge. Just think about it, Jesus fucking Christ.

Mammoth Jones · Feb 17, 2019

A.By said:
She got a black kid arrested for not saying the pledge.

Why is this even possible after West Virginia State Board of Education vs Barnett? This shit has already been settled.

This is just about some angry conservatives pride and nothing else. Such a waste of money. The district is going to pay a huge settlement for this and just for one white teacher getting triggered cause a black kid got uppity.

SurrenderDorothy · Feb 17, 2019

Hyun Sai said:
I'm not sure if I should be surprised that piece of shit got a defense force. A 11 years old refusing to do the pledge. Just think about it, Jesus fucking Christ.

I need more info before I make my final decision breh, these are tough situations. I mean we don't know what the kid was saying to her, y'know? /s

excelsiorlef · Feb 17, 2019

RobertR1 said:
Thank you for this. This adds more relevant details to the original article. A few points of note:

- The teacher seems to be an immigrant from Cuba
- The detainment was by a school resource officer who was called in by the sub
- There's some quotes by the student, the sub and the police dept which need to be corroborated by the student body. I'd be curious if there's CCTV footage of the incident

Like you have your context

He said I won't stand
She said love it or get out
And then called the office aka the school cops because she didn't want to deal with it anymore

Deleted member 3815 · Feb 17, 2019

Stat said:
Amazing as a non-American, how similar some parts of America are to authoritarian dictatorships and that certain Americans don't even see it as such

It's because they don't understand the different between patriotism and nationalism, nor do they want to acknowledge the fact that the US was founded on the back of slavery and genocide of the native Americans.

The US is a joke.

CDX · Feb 17, 2019

This story is crazy. Most of my teachers seemingly never cared

At my first school, when I was in kindergarten and the 1st grade, the pledge was done through the speaker system in the classroom. So the entire school did it first thing in the morning all at the same time. At all subsequent schools I attended, I guess it was left up to the teacher in each classroom.

I don't remember any of my teachers bothering to do it past the 4th grade or so. And the 1 or 2 kids that were Jehovah Witnesses sat out and nobody seemed to care or make a thing of it. I remember clearly and know for a fact we never did the pledge in highschool or even middleschool. So seeing comments that others had to justify why they were sitting out in highschool is strange to me, because it wasn't even a thing for me.

Lant_War · Feb 17, 2019

I don't understand how you can convince a cop to arrest an 11 YEAR OLD for this.

DBT85 · Feb 17, 2019

Lakeland is in North Korea or something, yes?

LL_Decitrig · Feb 17, 2019

Incidentally every American child should probably be told about the Great Loyalty Oath Crusade in Catch-22. It captures the insanity of this pledge culture perfectly.

ps3ud0 · Feb 17, 2019

Never understood this - then again I was at school at the time in the UK where you had to sing hymns in assembly every morning.

Not sure it's the same thing, but man that 11 year old kid is far more smarter than I was at his age and should be applauded for taking a stance.

I worry that this will lead to far more harm than good for him in what should be a safe place for inquiring minds.

America has a very fragile ego and needs a constant reminder why its the best.

ps3ud0 8)

Deleted member 862 · Feb 17, 2019

DigitalOp said:
I thought this was a "free" country?

you're free to leave if you don't do as you're told apparently.

Urban Scholar · Feb 17, 2019

But ya'll telling us Black folks racism is gone though...right? Right?

RoaminRonin · Feb 17, 2019

Libs are the real snowflakes though.

bluepolicebox · Feb 17, 2019

Lant_War said:
I don't understand how you can convince a cop to arrest an 11 YEAR OLD for this.

I doubt there was a whole lot of persuasion required.

Mechanized · Feb 17, 2019

The pledge should be banned.

Deleted member 4482 · Feb 17, 2019

You shouldn't be surprised. Polk County police are insanely racist and evil. Just search "Polk County racist" on twitter for an unending barrage of sadness.

y2dvd · Feb 17, 2019

demondance said:
I seriously don't understand how Americans can spend so much time shittalking other countries being brainwashed drones yet we do stuff like the pledge and turn football players kneeling into a never-ending enraged news cycle

It's always someone else. We never fall for propaganda ourselves, of course. We have freedom.

Not being a nationalist quickly gets you labelled as a commie here, and boy do we fear that word.

jman2050 · Feb 17, 2019

Mammoth Jones said:
Why is this even possible after West Virginia State Board of Education vs Barnett? This shit has already been settled.

The scary part about that court case is that, if you look closer, it overruled a supreme court decision three years earlier on this exact issue that had actually went against Jehovah's Witnesses, which had essentially come to the conclusion that public schools can totally enforce the pledge if they want and if you didn't like it you had to take it up with the school districts and have them change their laws/policies. Naturally because Jehovah's Witnesses are not known for compromising on their beliefs just because the law tells them to, this just led to the issue being dragged through the courts even longer until the 1943 decision finally settled it.

It's kind of disconcerting just how fragile the law can actually be and how 75 years of precedent can just be casually ignored by people today because they "didn't know about it" or whatever excuses they come up with to cover themselves.

Kthulhu · Feb 17, 2019

NeoZeedeater said:
How are there not daily mass protests across the US against this fascist pledge?

Because there are bigger problems in our society.

Deleted member 12177 · Feb 17, 2019

deleted bad info. sorry.

mod edit: let's not post stuff like this

Shame on me for posting this before doing additional research. Sorry if you ever see this Lori :)

excelsiorlef · Feb 17, 2019

RobertR1 said:
Took me a min but here's the SRO that made the arrest:

mod edit: let's not post stuff like this

I'm always a fan of having a large amount of information so good to see more surfacing. Hope it continues.

You should get paid for this PR you're running

Deleted member 12177 · Feb 17, 2019

excelsiorlef said:
You should get paid for this PR you're running

Sure. You can get be me 1yr of Gamepass.

Sykdom · Feb 17, 2019

Optional Objectives said:
That's living in shouldland, buddy. I think you'd find that the police are much more regularly involved at many schools all the way through the elementary school level. Shockingly, there are racial and other, associated demographic factors that influence heavier and more oppressive policing at different schools. There's a reason why we talk about a "school-to-prison pipeline" as an institutional failure.

See also, these articles.

As someone who grew up in predominantly poor areas I never saw any of this shit. Does that clear it up for you?

excelsiorlef · Feb 17, 2019

RobertR1 said:
Sure. You can get be me 1yr of Gamepass.

Bill the school and the Lakeland PD

I look forward though to you investigating if the kid's mother has unpaid parking tickets though.

Piecake · Feb 17, 2019

School Children do have the Constitutional Right to decide whether or not they want to stand for the pledge.

That school is boned

night814 · Feb 17, 2019

VectorPrime said:
That kids family is gonna get a nice plump settlement out of the upcoming lawsuit.

Not really worth it for having a kid go through this bullshit. I stopped standing for the pledge with a couple other kids in highschool and we got yelled at for it and walked to the principal's office. Principal was a cool dude and just told us not to go too far in our protest which is genuinely good advice, later I took care of his mother in my long-term care facility who was also very sweet and sang constantly lol.

Vinnie20 · Feb 17, 2019

That's basically 2 steps away from getting stoned to death for cheating.

Jag · Feb 17, 2019

Kid is a hero.

shadowsdarknes · Feb 17, 2019

I'm sure right wing comment sections are saying, "These kids are too young to be deciding to protest! Good on the school!"

cameron · Feb 17, 2019

Bit from WaPo: Florida sixth-grader charged with misdemeanor after refusing to recite Pledge of Allegiance

The student was later charged with disruption of a school facility and resisting an officer without violence, Gary Gross, a spokesman for the Lakeland Police Department, told The Washington Post. Gross said the agency can't release further information because the student is a minor.

A child gets charged with "resisting an officer without violence."

WillyFive · Feb 17, 2019

It angers me that the child now has a record due to this substitute. Thats his life crippled only 11 years in.

rjinaz · Feb 17, 2019

Imagine being a sub and giving a shit about somebody not standing for the pledge.

Also not even surprised the thread was derailed by "let's not call this poor woman racist" posts after she had an 11 yr old Black kid arrested at school. The sympathy for Black people, even kids, are somehow lost on certain folk for some damn reason. The same people that would probably argue Trump's attacks on Kaeprnick weren't racially motivated either. A petite blond girl that didn't stand for the pledge wouldn't be arrested, I mean, come on now.

Commander Quackers · Feb 17, 2019

cameron said:
Bit from WaPo: Florida sixth-grader charged with misdemeanor after refusing to recite Pledge of Allegiance

The student was later charged with disruption of a school facility and resisting an officer without violence, Gary Gross, a spokesman for the Lakeland Police Department, told The Washington Post. Gross said the agency can't release further information because the student is a minor.

A child gets charged with "resisting an officer without violence."

I get the feeling they make up charges on the fly

rjinaz · Feb 17, 2019

WillyFive said:
It angers me that the child now has a record due to this substitute. Thats his life crippled only 11 years in.

Seems likely something like this would be sealed since he's a juvenile, but, laws differ from state to state so who knows.

AstronaughtE · Feb 17, 2019

*kid is being dragged by police through the halls for not participating in indoctrination ceremony.*
"...With liberty, and justice for all."

samoyed · Feb 17, 2019

Was for the Bill Maher thread.

Regarding this topic, yeah, our nation's jingoism sucks.

excelsiorlef · Feb 17, 2019

samoyed said:
The problem with "better to have them on a left leaning show so they get challenged instead of fox news" is:

1) They don't get challenged, at least not by any appreciable sense. I mean they voluntarily agree to show up and I assume they have certain guarantees that their reputation will be protected, no one goes on air just to get owned except some really stupid conservatives egotists

2) They go on fox news/breitbart anyway

Ultimately it's just signal boosting them when we should be stamping out.

"Oh but free speech everyone deserves to be heard"

Nah.

Bill Maher thread is thataway ----->

XD

S-Wind · Feb 17, 2019

The Pledge of Allegiance, and everything surrounding it, is some fascist totalitarian dictatorship BULLSHIT!

Totally Normal: Lakeland 11-year-old arrested for confrontation after refusal to stand for Pledge

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