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Classy Tomato

Member
Jun 2, 2019
2,514
A new Troy overview video about multi-resource economy just released on YouTube.




It seems my assumption that the new resources will have a similar role to rice in Three Kindom is more or less right. I like that it expands diplomacy and resource management in the campaign map, adding more depth.

(I can't help but feel like watching Age of Empire videos with the addition of new resources though lol)
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
A new Troy overview video about multi-resource economy just released on YouTube.




It seems my assumption that the new resources will have a similar role to rice in Three Kindom is more or less right. I like that it expands diplomacy and resource management in the campaign map, adding more depth.

(I can't help but feel like watching Age of Empire videos with the addition of new resources though lol)

I love this!
This game can't get here quick enough
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal


Changes to troy based on fan feedback. I hope some of those changes end up in other total wars. Arrow trails is such a good change!
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
I really appreciate it when a company takes fan feedback, but it also makes me feel a little uncomfortable, just because I think back on what so much "fan feedback" looks like. Damn silly reaction, I know, but it's there.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,394
The ranged changes are very intriguing, just what the largely-melee and terrain-focused Troy needs IMO. Promising stuff.


I watched Troy (the Brad Pitt masterwork) recently so I'm ready.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
I really appreciate it when a company takes fan feedback, but it also makes me feel a little uncomfortable, just because I think back on what so much "fan feedback" looks like. Damn silly reaction, I know, but it's there.
I can't imagine the shit grace has to filter to make constructive criticism for total war.
That said there are other ways for them to incorporate fan feedback like data on how people play their games and achivements.

IMO CA should try to get more "normal" players as testers because IMO there are a lot of QoL/tutorial stuff that should be added so that new players aren't as lost when starting the game.
I hope wh3 is more beginer friendly because it is a shame if the "complete" game doesnt' reach as many people as possible.
Not sure if I understand it right, but flanking with ranged units wasn't supposed to be in the game? Or it wasn't as effective as it is now?
Without having acess to the game is hard to answer your question.

My comprehension is that CA "upped" the ranged damage so that these unflankable and high armored units would have 1 weakness.

The easiest way to do that would be to change the WS from normal to AP. That way a ranged unit will deal the same damage to low armored low tier units and high armored high tier units. I'd imagine that the high tier units will have silver or gold shields so they will heavily reduce damage from the front; thus by changing the damage and flanking with ranged units you can now kill these behemoths.

That said CA could have added a new stat/ modifier for ranged fire where depending on where the unit is hit the damage dealt is increased or decreased.

We will have to wait for the game to see how CA did it.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
Namnam confirmed for next DLC. Seems to a larger expansion.
Part of me was super confused on why CA was jsutifying the screw up for hu lao gate then it it me... the DLC is probably close to release so it is probably arriving september.
If true it is great news!
I also really enjoy both meng huo in the screen shot and i think it should be Zhu Rong on the banner. They look beatifully done. very non-han like i wanted.

Sounds like a lot of changes are coming...and they confirmed a second expansion later when revealing when they'd fix an issue with the map. Glad to see Three Kingdoms is still getting some love.

This is excelent. As someone that doesn't know a lot of 3K (mostly from DW) I want more and mroe content to the game. IMO this period is perfect for total war so I hope they flesh it out with not only mroe characters but more cultures.
I hope that Korea gets in eventually.
 

Zoidn

Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,711
Looks like we're getting a Three Kingdoms announcement in 15 minutes. Looks jungly, Nanman incoming?
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
That looks fantastic. Did the other expansions add variation like that? I think that was my biggest gripe with the game (and Shogun) was the lack of variety between factions. There's definitely an opportunity for other cultures. Do they have some steppe cultures yet?
 

Tmespe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,441
I don't think they're riding the tigres. Only controlling them in battle, which still is not that realistic, but who cares.
 

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
3,439
Now this is a big DLC, if the look at the map and the unit variance is any indication.

I wonder what the FreeLC faction is...
 

Classy Tomato

Member
Jun 2, 2019
2,514
Aw yeah. I always find the southwest regions of the map dull and not fun to conquer. Now I can't wait for my army to be slaughtered by tigers and elephants!
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
Saw the trailers. Looks fabulous IMO the southwest map was one of the worse offernders in the game with free real estate for a lot of factions.
I wonder if the map is expanded further down. IMO 3k map is really small for,well, china.

That looks fantastic. Did the other expansions add variation like that? I think that was my biggest gripe with the game (and Shogun) was the lack of variety between factions. There's definitely an opportunity for other cultures. Do they have some steppe cultures yet?
Yes and no. The other DLC (mandate of heaven and Lu bu one) did add new cultures/ways to play while eight princes and the yelow turban remants did not.
Mandate of heaven addds 2 new ways to play:
  • Yellow turbans -> their faction has a pooled resource that they need to constantly get or they get raveged by infighting. Their unit roster is completely seperate to the han. heavily focused on militia and peasant units
  • Liu Hong -> being the emperor you have a very corrupt court that is basically siphoning any resource you came about. With the yellow turbans and the warlords going to mess with your empire until you can purge it. To defend yourself you have acess toa single army which boasts the strongests units in the game. THe catch of that army is taht it only replenishes in the capital. So every lost soldier in battle can be really plainful if you are far from your capital.
The LU Bu DLC adds
  • Lu Bu and sun ce have some really unique mechanics
  • Bandits became their own culture with their own mechanics and units (i think their rework was free but i'm not 100% sure)
Note that many features above are free. The imperial units are unlocked for free when you reach the end of the tech.
Did...did the Nanman actually ride tigers into battle?
I doubt it. Most of war IRL is 90% maneuvering, waiting and maintain supply lines while 9.5% is pointy spears stabbing pointy spears.

Glad they choose to ignore history because IMO hollywood or romance versions of conflict are much more in tune with what i want to see.
PS: i'd still like that swords units didn't exist or that they didn't' win against spears, that is a really strong pet peeve fro me.
Now this is a big DLC, if the look at the map and the unit variance is any indication.

I wonder what the FreeLC faction is...
It is shi xie. the generic strategist that ruled the southeast before the DLC
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
OMG i just noticed the steam store page screenshots has these bad boys!

ss_94fdf95dca5afbb0de5065c641ad50dd0c9bd531.1920x1080.jpg
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
Shi Xie confirmed as the FLC. His store page is up. THe only thing i'm concerned is that CA hasn't shown any unique char for shi Xie; which would make it a bit boring campaign if you just start with just generic chars.


It also shows a bit of the the map changes
ss_ef774e0514add3e95bf1ef397a04feebc4edb8eb.1920x1080.jpg

looks like they pushed the map south and west.
He can also see the starting positions for the Nanman
 

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
3,439
Shi Xie confirmed as the FLC. His store page is up. THe only thing i'm concerned is that CA hasn't shown any unique char for shi Xie; which would make it a bit boring campaign if you just start with just generic chars.


It also shows a bit of the the map changes

looks like they pushed the map south and west.
He can also see the starting positions for the Nanman


I've watched a few previews from Youtubers, and they showed off three Han units with unique character portraits. Wei Yan, Xun Rou, and Li Ru. If they were updating these three, I can't imagine they'd give Shi Xie no unique units.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
I've watched a few previews from Youtubers, and they showed off three Han units with unique character portraits. Wei Yan, Xun Rou, and Li Ru. If they were updating these three, I can't imagine they'd give Shi Xie no unique units.
wei Yan? I wonder why he was selected. Isn't he only notable much later in the novel? like in 190/194 does he do anything special?
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,363
Thought I might play a campaign before the DLC drops so I started a game as Yan Baihu in the 194 start since I haven't tried out the revamped bandit factions yet. The "tech tree" is a bit of a pain to navigate; I wish it was easier to find out which node gives what. The loot distribution stance is gives pretty good replenishment. Public order is kind of a problem, since there's only 2 tiers of the granary and the food camp to help mitigate it, and upgrading to the small regional city for higher tiers of granary gives a penalty.

Anyway, right off a bat I signed a merc contract with Wang Lang against the YTs in his commandery. I took control of my initial commandery and some territory in Poyang then went after the YTs. I handed all the territory to Lang but got some nice weapons in exchange. Also got friendly enough with him to form a coalition. Zhou Tai showed up in my recruitment pool so I grabbed him.

Afterwards I went to take full control of Poyang but Sun Ce already took the town while I was preoccupied, so I signed a merc deal with Liu Biao against him. I took Poyang and Changsha and gave some territories in Yuzhang to Biao. When the contract expired I made peace with Ce, marrying Lady Wu to Yan Yu and taking a bunch of gold. Liu Biao was willing to join my coalition, and after a few trade deals so was Sun Ce.

After building up my cities a bit, Liu Bei proposed a merc contract against Cao Cao because he was down to his last territory surrounded. I figured I could use a foothold in central China so I went up there. I took Yangzhou (? The commandery south of Chen) and Nanyang while Biao had Runan, protecting my westernn flank. I gave Chen and Yingchuan to Bei. After Cao Cao was annihilated Liu Bei and some minor lords joined the coalition. Zhang Yan and Zheng Jiang were already destroyed, but I managed to recruit them.

After building up a bit more I went after Chang'an to get that last bit of prestige I was missing. The three kingdoms ended up being me, Gongsun Zan, and freaking Liu Bei. He left the coalition and everyone else followed him, leaving me all alone. Sun Ce and Liu Bei immediately declared war on me. Liu Biao and Wang Lang are leaving me alone for now, which is a relief since I'm already being attacked from the north and the south. So that's what I have to deal with right now. I'll put up a defensive force to the north to hold back Liu Bei while I mop up Sun Ce who's expanded to the south. Then I'll push all my forces north to deal with Bei and Gongsun Zan.
 

Kaffeemann

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,337
Germany
I watched a bunch of preview gameplay and the lack of new voice acting for the Nanman is a real bummer.
Some of the playable characters have a couple new voice lines but still the same voice actors. None of the Nanman units have new voice acting either.
For me this kills off the flavor of the faction. We now have Han, Yellow Turbans, Bandits and Nanman who have all the same voice acting.
It's weird that there isn't more feedback on this. Imagine if the Vampire Coast DLC for Warhammer 2 launched and had the same voice acting as the Vampire Counts. People would riot!
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,394
I've always gotten the impression that Total War games have really budget DLC... except for the Total Warhammer games, for some reason. Like I know Total Warhammer DLCs sell quite well, but even the early TWWH1 DLCs feel like a significant step up compared to other titles.

Kinda thought they were pivotting post-TWWH, but 3K's DLC approach has felt similar to historical titles. (Of course, I haven't actually played 3K since release so maybe I'm off-base here. The DLC just feels a lot smaller in scope vs. the fantasy titles.)
 

Zoidn

Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,711
The patchnotes for Patch 1.60 are out and they seem sizeable. https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-patch-1-6-0/

One highlight, finally:
Ambushes
We've changed the behaviour of ranged units when you are attacking in ambush battles. Previously they would start with fire at will on, but not fire until the player gave an attack order. Now, they will start with fire at will off, but will open fire at any units in range once it is switched on
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,363
Finished that Yan Baihu campaign. Took the other 2 capitals and vassalized a whole bunch of factions for the win.

Then I started a MoH Liu Bei campaign. That was an interesting start. Took Anping as my first settlement and pretty much let the YT take most of the northeastern commanderies so I could take them for myself. Then I expanded west and eventually controlled the whole of northern China. Liu Chong and Cao Cao became kingdoms alongside me but I had Yuan Shu, Liu Biao, Sun Ce, Tao Qian, and a bunch of minor factions as vassals to distract them while I take their capitals.

Anyway, that should tide me over until the DLC drops.

The patchnotes for Patch 1.60 are out and they seem sizeable. https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-patch-1-6-0/

One highlight, finally:
Ambushes
We've changed the behaviour of ranged units when you are attacking in ambush battles. Previously they would start with fire at will on, but not fire until the player gave an attack order. Now, they will start with fire at will off, but will open fire at any units in range once it is switched on

You can now choose whether characters live forever or not
  • This is an option in the campaign selection screen
  • Age/dates now replace with showing turns alive or turns progressed
  • Characters can still die in battle with this option enabled
  • Children will still show ages until they come of age, and will then show turns alive

Ooh.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,363
Went ahead finished a Tao Qian campaign in the MoH start but didn't get the achievement for becoming emperor with a governor faction. I guess that only applies to the 190 start?

I used Lady Mi to get Lu Bu into my faction via marriage and made him heir. Then I divorced them and recruited a bunch of other legendary generals the same way. Ended up getting Ma Chao, Xun Yu, Sun Quan, Liu Zhang and Guo Jia this way. I also used spies to recruit legendary generals, and Gongsun Zan was even willing to straight up be a turncoat. Satisfaction was low in the early game but Sun Qian and Lady Gan have the satisfaction boosting assignment so that helped patch things up, and I also got lucky and got a concubine ancillary fighting the Zhang bros so that's another +10 satisfaction.

Tao Qian died not so far into the campaign from old age. A bunch of other generals died too over the course of the game; Ji Ling, Li Jue, etc. Huang Zhong actually made it to the end, he was like in his mid-90s. I guess this won't be a problem after patch 1.6 drops, though.
 

LightInfa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
118
So, is anyone playing the Nanman DLC? It seems like everyone switched to Crusader Kings 3 :P

I ended up choosing Nanman over CK3... Nanman has probably been my most desired addition since Day 1 and I have to say it's living up to the hype. The new faction roster is very fun - without cav you have to be a lot more creative in your tactics and army comps. I've started as Shamoke, which is especially challenging since he doesn't start with any access to the fun units (Tigers and Elephants), so you're stuck entirely with light infantry for the early game. You do get elephant mounts pretty early for characters, but it's not always a good idea to use them because without cav you need the speed of horse mounted characters to chase down archers and routers (especially when fighting Han with hordes of archer militia that are not friends to your light infantry). Progression is pretty satisfying - you can expand pretty quickly early as most of the minor tribes are just one province minors, but by midgame the Nanman usually will have consolidated into two other power blocs around the major tribes. Meng Huo is bogged down against the Han, so I'm about to stab him in the back for the next stage of expansion.

I also really enjoy the dilemmas the research tree poses between doubling down on Nanman units and abilities or becoming essentially a hybrid Han faction. Shamoke emphasizes this dilemma because he's the one Nanman character who can actually become emperor, so I've been taking technologies that allow me to build relationships and alliances with Han powers (just formed an alliance with Shi Xie that will hopefully be the start of my path to the throne), but this has made satisfaction much harder to manage among my Nanman court. Militarily, I'm staying Nanman to get more elephants, but I'll probably choose the Han tech for the last choice to get access to cav.
___
With Paradox games I tend to prefer to play megacampaigns, so I'm going to wait for half decent converters to show up before I jump on CK3.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
I am excited to try it out but I'm trying to get a handle on Crusader Kings at the moment. I'd love to see some of these systems make their way over to Total War. One thing that stuck out to me is the War Score system allows you to win a conflict and make demands on your enemy without having to totally annihilate them. Every big conflict eventually turns into a series of sieges and I'd like to see a system where a decisive victory or capturing of various prisoners allows you to negotiate concessions. I feel like a combination of Total War and Crusader Kings would be the perfect strategy game. I really miss the real time battles and some of the other features of Total War when I'm playing CK.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,394
Yeah, that's what I was hoping 3K was gonna be--Crusader Kings meets Total War. But the campaign map just kinda has trappings of CK, with little actual substance. It's still very Total War, with, er, all roads leading to... y'know... war. Total war, one might say.

The reason CK2/3 works is because it's trying to be more than a wargame; it has systems that generate stories and give character to everyone. CK2 bridged the gap between strategy game and RPG, and CK3 embraces it fully. Which are things 3K--and Total War in general--is hesitant to explore.
To be honest, I'm so scared to get into Crusader Kings.
It'll take a while to get used to the systems (let alone understand them), but CK3 is infinitely more approachable the 2. Better UI, better tutorials, and it's a lot less obtuse in how you play. It's on Game Pass for PC, so that's an easy way to 'demo' it. (Just be sure to buy it elsewhere if you dig it.)

There's never been a better time to get into Crusader Kings.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,363
Pretty neat that Meng Huo's initial chain of dilemmas end with him marrying and confederating Zhurong. Less neat that his ambitious trait turns into incompetent later.

Satisfaction's been a pretty persistent problem, so I ended up just "recruiting" a bunch of Han strategists (including Xun You somehow) and leveling them up a bit so they can do the satisfaction assignment. In fact, I also suspect Han generals might make better administrators cave lords because of their skill trees.
 
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LightInfa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
118
About to wrap up a Shamoke Emperor playthrough (on the verge of conquering the last imperial seat). Overall very fun playthrough but going for emperor revealed a few difficult quirks I hadn't anticipated.

-Reaching emperor level prestige was much harder than I anticipated because Han cities do not give you any prestige. As a result expanding your empire once you unify Nanman does nothing to help you level up. The only thing you can do is expand Nanman cities and spam prestige buildings in those places to hit emperor tier.
-Once you unify the Nanman you basically stop getting any candidates for employment because you control every Nanman character. This becomes a problem as you expand your armies and assignments as you don't get any Han characters in your recruitment pool. So your only avenue is to try and employ every Han character you capture; unfortunately I cut myself off from this by executing everyone of Sun Ce's generals (and eventually Sun Ce himself) on my warpath across the Kingdom of Wu.
-To the point about Han characters, if you are aiming to become emperor as Shamoke you should bringing in as many Han characters as possible from the start of the game. Shamoke already has -10 satisfaction with Nanman, but if you choose the emperor path after you unify the Nanman, you are immediately slapped with a -20 satisfaction penalty with all Nanman characters for 20 turns. I was playing on normal so I could manage this with some aggressive ancillary trading, but on higher difficulties if you aren't already relying on a lot of Han characters your court and armies could just evaporate.
-OTOH Shamoke gets some pretty great buffs for diplomatic relations with Han characters, so once I started expanding I was able to build some pretty powerful alliances quickly (which was essential in stopping the Wu juggernaut).
-You can exceed the cap on elite unit types like elephants and tigers by recruiting Nanman generals that have those units in their retinues. Definitely worth hiring those guys if any show up as a candidate, especially for Shamoke who can't get any of the fun Nanman units early.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
I am enjoying the DLC my main problem is that controlling the satisfaction of nanman chars is really hard. IMO CA needs to change that, I have like 6 tribes under my control and i can't use most chars because they rebel instantly unless they are level 1 or 2. IMO this isn't fun.

That said the new beta patch seems to solve that issue or even mitigate it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,363
I am enjoying the DLC my main problem is that controlling the satisfaction of nanman chars is really hard. IMO CA needs to change that, I have like 6 tribes under my control and i can't use most chars because they rebel instantly unless they are level 1 or 2. IMO this isn't fun.

That said the new beta patch seems to solve that issue or even mitigate it.

Yeah, that's really a problem. I kinda got around it by capturing Han strategists and doing their satisfaction assignment, but it's nice to know that they're fixing it.

  • Factions declaring war against vassals are now considered to be the aggressors towards the vassal lord when resolving treachery and generating subsequent deals. This should prevent instances of the player gaining treachery penalties when their vassals are attacked. If you spot any other erroneous treachery penalties occurring in your games, please report it on our forums

Yaaaay.