Total War: Three Kingdoms |OT| Pursue the mandate of heaven with your dynasty's warriors!

[Anno]

It's also notable that Sun Ce and Lu Bu both seem to have really unique mechanics. So hopefully they're leaning into that stuff more. And bandits should generally be quite a bit more different now, too.

But yeah I think it's hard to replicate something like TWW. It's rare that you have people begging you to launch more paid content. It's a perfect and maybe unique storm of great video game, amazing mod community and a game maybe saving an entire world that a lot of people grew up really in love with.

For some of the same reasons I wouldn't be surprised if 3K continues to slowly grow as well, so long as the DLCs/updates stay up to par.

 

[Anno]

1.5 patch notes

Patch/FLC overview video:


This seems like a crazy big update. Very impressive.

 

[karnage10]

1.5 patch notes

Patch/FLC overview video:


This seems like a crazy big update. Very impressive.

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"Population now increases all income, not just peasantry"
what is this madness?

 

[Tmespe]

Seems like a really hearty update. I like that they seem willing to experiment more recently. Bandits work quite differently now, with a different tech tree and mercenary contracts. The spy updates also look really nice. The balance changes also all seem pretty good.

As a side note, I'm always amazed by how large some cities/provinces were back then. Between this update, Doom and Animal Crossing, it's gonna be a busy quarantine period for me.

 

[Kaffeemann]

Bought the new DLC but I will try the white lion bandit first to see how the changes to bandit factions work out.

 

[karnage10]

The DLC is live. I tried Lu Bu and lost so quickly :(
One pet peeve is that liu Chong is on the 194 map but isn't playable. IMO CA should allow every warlord to be playable if they are on the map... Did CA ever mentioned why he isn't playable?

 

[karnage10]

I have finally survived as Lu Bu and manage to get peace with Cao Cao. It turns out that i was playing all wrong. you see i was trying for even fights and avoiding too hard battles. Turns out that Lu Bu really is equal to a 1000 men.
What i did was attack whenever possible even if i was outnumbered by 1000-1500 troops. The way i won those battles is by moving Lu Bu and wipe the enemy generals (except strategist and sentinels). WHile i'm doing this my army tries to stall as much as possible. Lu Bu's cavalry is really strong so they wipe any ranged unit in a few seconds. After the generals are done and the archers routed the enemy militia usually breaks. Then its up to lu bu to wipe the enemy elite units and voila battle won!
Its mindboggling that i'm wining battles where the main and only strategy is wait until Lu Bu wins.

 

[Anno]

Yeah Lu Bu can wreck armies mostly by himself. He's so damned fast now that it's also really hard to punish him unless you charge some spears and get dismounted or something.

 

[Double 0]

Yeah the key with Lu Bu is you wipe armies with him, but never duel.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Sun Ce campaign is interesting.

 

[Double 0]

Sun Ce campaign is interesting.

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The Reckless Luck System is such a cool idea. Reminds me of William Peterson's character from To Live and Die in LA. Running on pure luck till it runs out.

 

[Anno]

Reckless Luck, mercenary contracts and Lu Bu/Sun Ce's individual quest logs are something I hope get nabbed for Warhammer ASAP.

Also the revamped spy system, even if only for Silver Pinnacle.

 

[Kaffeemann]

I think I've overestimated how good I am and now am stuggling in my very hard Yan Baihu campaign. Fucking Yuan Shao has declared himself Emperor and vassalized half of China again an I kinda neglected diplomacy most of the campaign.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Yeah the key with Lu Bu is you wipe armies with him, but never duel.

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That is sort of the nature of the role - red heroes are great vs. trash, but struggle against dedicated duelists (even is Lu Bu's stats are so comically inflated he can do it anyway). Get him a solid green to run around dueling people and that's sorta all you need.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

The Reckless Luck System is such a cool idea. Reminds me of William Peterson's character from To Live and Die in LA. Running on pure luck till it runs out.

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Also, the ability to get more characters as you go on is cool too.

 

[karnage10]

here is an example. i'm 1000 troops short

yet is till won relatively very comfortably. IF you take into account the high amount of replenishment of Lu BU i'll recover in a turn or 2.

Lu Bu essentially killed/route the enemy generals. the cavalry wiped ranged fire. The rest of the army kinda stalled the enemy until they routed.

 

[Poodlestrike]

People gotta stop pursuing Lu Bu. Just... run the other way. He's not the Flash.

 

[karnage10]

I have updated the OT a little bit.
I'm thinking of going the something similar to wh OT but instead of races use the playable chars.

People gotta stop pursuing Lu Bu. Just... run the other way. He's not the Flash.

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That is easy to say but Lu Bu has the red hare... at least he can only pursue 1 person!

Also Lu Bu is very self ware in his speeches.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I have updated the OT a little bit.
I'm thinking of going the something similar to wh OT but instead of races use the playable chars.

That is easy to say but Lu Bu has the red hare... at least he can only pursue 1 person!

Also Lu Bu is very self ware in his speeches.

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Well, it's got me reinstalling it again, lol.

Bandit Queen, let's conquer the world~

 

[karnage10]

Well, it's got me reinstalling it again, lol.

Bandit Queen, let's conquer the world~

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If you got the DLC the new start for the bandit queen is... harsh to say the least.

 

[Poodlestrike]

If you got the DLC the new start for the bandit queen is... harsh to say the least.

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It was already harsh, what did they do to her now?!?

 

[karnage10]

It was already harsh, what did they do to her now?!?

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she starts near Lu Bu, Cao Cao, Liu Bei, liu Chong and kong rong. All those have considerable territory. Alongside this she starts with 0 territory and an easy way to expand.
moving away a bit of her starting location to the north you have Yuan Shao with a considerable amount of strength and to the south Liu Biao and yuan shu both lead vassals that become strong rather quickly.

I think her only survivable option is to get away from NE china as quick as possible. That or using the mercenary contract to get some really good bonuses.

 

[Poodlestrike]

she starts near Lu Bu, Cao Cao, Liu Bei, liu Chong and kong rong. All those have considerable territory. Alongside this she starts with 0 territory and an easy way to expand.
moving away a bit of her starting location to the north you have Yuan Shao with a considerable amount of strength and to the south Liu Biao and yuan shu both lead vassals that become strong rather quickly.

I think her only survivable option is to get away from NE china as quick as possible. That or using the mercenary contract to get some really good bonuses.

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Goddamn.

Yeah, rolling down south with your starting army could work... hmm

We'll see how it shakes out. I play unwinnable starts all the time.

 

[karnage10]

when the Ai thinks they are safe in their settlement from Lu Bu.
I played enough atilla to know how to siege settlements...

 

[karnage10]

After a few dozen hours playing I have formed my opinion on this DLC:
What I liked:

• The new factions (Lu Bu and Sun Ce) are very unique forcing you to learn their mechanics so you can be successful with them. Their events are also, IMO, much better then most base game factions
• The new starting year has a lot of warlords already set up for greatness which makes the early game more fun since the economy is much easier to kickstart.
• The new chars make the new factions a lot cooler. Sun ce gets like an unique char every year or there about.
• the new events for old chars are ok-ish. I think they will fit well if you start in an early point of the game
• new units are pretty cool looking, almost as cool as the imperial ones.

What I disliked:

• Balance is, IMO,... unexistant at the moment. Lu Bu gets so much prestige that you become emperor in less then 50 turns. Sun ce needing certain province to survive means that if the any other AI attacks you chances are that campaign is lost.
• Lots of bugs most small but from key character deflecting their faction like dian wei leavin cao cao very easily to a lot of crashes in co-op
• Liu CHong isn't playable (maybe because it would be DLC for DLC?) despite being on the map and in a very interesting location
• A lack of portaits/unique models for some but, IMO, very important people for this DLC. For example Lu Bu doesn't have his daughter totally unique. He also doesn't get an unique daughter/son when he has kids with diao chan. Liu Chong is kidna fated to die and doesn't have some unique to take over his faction.Yuan Shu also lacks unique chars. Some of the Lu Bu kill targets are generic which just makes the game feel even emptier. One other problem is that after 5-10 years the ammount of factions with a unique char is very diminute.
• SW china is still a mess and needs more factions there so that they aren't guaranteed to become a kingdom
• SE china now has quite a bit of unique factions but most of them just have their leader unique
• To my knowledge there is no way to change unique mechanics mid campaign. For example starting as dong zhou and when you become Lu Bu you don't change to Lu Bu unique mechanics. IMO this is kinda a missed oportunity because it would make for some compeling role-play. Changing faction mechanics as your leader changes feels perfect for this game. And CA has done the "hardest "job which is putting in the pause menu a list of what your unique mechanics. So if you ever forget your mechanics wer are just 2 clicks away.

verdict: I think this DLC is great for people like me that want to have more content to explore and a less create your empire from 0 starting position. Its also great for those that want a non-traditional total war challenge. IMo where it doesn't shine much is if you re-use old chars. Its essentially a better starting position with a few new events.

PS. I'm going to say that the free patch char yan baihou is also very strong and, imo, maybe he should have been DLC and Sun Ce free. Bandit rework is very interesting I just wish AI could use mercenary contracts in other bandit factions.

 

[Anno]

i think factions being unique and faction imbalance kind of go hand-in-hand. I hope they continue to push things towards unique-but-imbalanced while trying to tighten up some of the frustrating edge cases.

 

[karnage10]

i think factions being unique and faction imbalance kind of go hand-in-hand. I hope they continue to push things towards unique-but-imbalanced while trying to tighten up some of the frustrating edge cases.

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In hindsight i wasn't very clear. I don't actually mind some char/factions being more powerful than others. I just think that both sun ce and Lu Bu are made in a way that I think its not workinga s intended.
For example Lu Bu can get up to 200 (perhaps more?) prestige from just his battles. This amount of prestige allows you to reach the 3 kingdom "challenge" with just a few provinces (i think i had 12 settlements). IMO it doesn't make for good gameplay.

Sun ce is kinda "forced" to conquer, duel as well as train a some officers to survive. This means that if any AI that doesn't belong in the SE like liu Biao attacks you ends up with sun ce dying. IMO having the faction leader die based on the roll of the AI is not a lot of fun. I think its fine if he dies because you couldn't conquer the territory quick enough but in harder dificulties it feels like a dice toss whether someone will backstab you or not.

I really enjoy the mechanics of each factions its jsut that IMO are not "tuned" to the rest of the game. A more constructive criticism:
Lu Bu shouldn't get prestige from his battles but from completing his objectives. He should get momentum even when occupying a city since his penalty for developing stuff is pretty high it is pretty brutal to raze a city for just momentum. Momentum shouldn't decay as fast.

 

[Anno]

In hindsight i wasn't very clear. I don't actually mind some char/factions being more powerful than others. I just think that both sun ce and Lu Bu are made in a way that I think its not workinga s intended.
For example Lu Bu can get up to 200 (perhaps more?) prestige from just his battles. This amount of prestige allows you to reach the 3 kingdom "challenge" with just a few provinces (i think i had 12 settlements). IMO it doesn't make for good gameplay.

Sun ce is kinda "forced" to conquer, duel as well as train a some officers to survive. This means that if any AI that doesn't belong in the SE like liu Biao attacks you ends up with sun ce dying. IMO having the faction leader die based on the roll of the AI is not a lot of fun. I think its fine if he dies because you couldn't conquer the territory quick enough but in harder dificulties it feels like a dice toss whether someone will backstab you or not.

I really enjoy the mechanics of each factions its jsut that IMO are not "tuned" to the rest of the game. A more constructive criticism:
Lu Bu shouldn't get prestige from his battles but from completing his objectives. He should get momentum even when occupying a city since his penalty for developing stuff is pretty high it is pretty brutal to raze a city for just momentum. Momentum shouldn't decay as fast.

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Fair. I think like TWW2 these mechanics will debut with numbers not quite where people would like them and ultimately be tweaked a bit to be a little more reasonable. I wish they'd go the other way and make Lu Bu able to rocket up the prestige charts like no other but introduce ways for him to also crumble, and give Sun Ce even more powerful advantages but make it impossible to completely win against the luck decline, but I understand that's way harder.

 

[Hella]

I haven't played in months, but I wish they went with Crusader Kings 2-style portraits for generic characters if they were gonna be so stingy with new, unique character art. Even a little variety goes a long way to making things feel less repetitive.

 

[Classy Tomato]

Does CA have a specific outlet where people can submit bugs? I used the support page to let them know about some bugs I had in the game, but the email they sent didn't tell me explicitly that they're aware or acknowledge the bugs. Instead, they told me to opt in/out from the beta or get a refund lol

 

[Kaffeemann]

Does CA have a specific outlet where people can submit bugs? I used the support page to let them know about some bugs I had in the game, but the email they sent didn't tell me explicitly that they're aware or acknowledge the bugs. Instead, they told me to opt in/out from the beta or get a refund lol

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CA COMMUNITY

Official hub for Creative Assembly games. Interact with fellow gamers, learn about the latest features and earn your CA badges!

forums.totalwar.com

 

[Classy Tomato]

CA COMMUNITY

Official hub for Creative Assembly games. Interact with fellow gamers, learn about the latest features and earn your CA badges!

forums.totalwar.com

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Ah I didn't know they use the forum to gather feedbacks and bugs. Thanks!

 

[Kaffeemann]

Wait, I thought that's the TW: Warhammer 2 thread. I'm sure you figured it out already but here are the 3K support forums:

CA COMMUNITY

Official hub for Creative Assembly games. Interact with fellow gamers, learn about the latest features and earn your CA badges!

forums.totalwar.com

 

[Kaffeemann]

CA will do a reddit AMA with a focus on the 3K DLC:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Classy Tomato]

Wait, I thought that's the TW: Warhammer 2 thread. I'm sure you figured it out already but here are the 3K support forums:

CA COMMUNITY

Official hub for Creative Assembly games. Interact with fellow gamers, learn about the latest features and earn your CA badges!

forums.totalwar.com

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Yeah, I figured it out. Cheers!

And it seems the bug is fixed with the recent hotfix. Now I finally can continue rampaging as Lu Bu.

 

[Bremsstrahlung]

Apparently the next DLC will include the Nanman? Maybe the campaign will focus on Zhuge Liang and Meng Huo.

 

[karnage10]

patch 1.5.2 available as beta. Looks really good

 

[Tmespe]

I'm playing a Liu Bei campaign on MoFH on the 1.5.2 beta and noticed that sometimes my characters automatically dismount without being able to mount again. It seems to be related to fatigue or damage maybe? Is this a bug, or a feature? Can't remember that happening before.

That campaign is though as hell by the way. Surrounded by all the Yellow Turbans without any settlements initially. I managed to get a some mine at least. Zhang Fei and Gan Yu have been carrying me so far, but I'm at the point where I'm unable to replenish between the YT waves. Quite fun though.

 

[Mewzard]

I'm playing a Liu Bei campaign on MoFH on the 1.5.2 beta and noticed that sometimes my characters automatically dismount without being able to mount again. It seems to be related to fatigue or damage maybe? Is this a bug, or a feature? Can't remember that happening before.

That campaign is though as hell by the way. Surrounded by all the Yellow Turbans without any settlements initially. I managed to get a some mine at least. Zhang Fei and Gan Yu have been carrying me so far, but I'm at the point where I'm unable to replenish between the YT waves. Quite fun though.

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IIRC, at some point it was updated so charging into braced Spear units knocked you off your horse (and prevented remounting), though I could be misremembering.

 

[Anno]

IIRC, at some point it was updated so charging into braced Spear units knocked you off your horse (and prevented remounting), though I could be misremembering.

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No that's accurate. Charging spears with a mounted character can be pretty dicey if they aren't otherwise occupied.

 

[karnage10]

I'm playing a Liu Bei campaign on MoFH on the 1.5.2 beta and noticed that sometimes my characters automatically dismount without being able to mount again. It seems to be related to fatigue or damage maybe? Is this a bug, or a feature? Can't remember that happening before.

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It is a "new" feature (i think it was added around the traps/stakes patch). I don't remember the exact numbers but the idea is that when your general is hurt there is a chance to lose his mount. The idea was to stop chars from just cycle charging infantry to death without being damaged. This was particularly noticeable with excellent chars like zhang fei where if you had the patience you could kill almost any infantry unit by just cycle charging him.
My understanding of how it works is that the higher the quality of the unit the higher the chance of it happening. It also happens more commonly if you fight anti large units. There is an almost 100% chance of losing your mount if you charge braced spears or stakes.

I have to say however that without the blood DLC pack the vanilla animation is a bit wonky. With the DLC blood pack the horse dies. without the DLC the rider is suposed to fall down and the horse flee. The problem is that sometimes the game uses the dismount animation and the horse doesn't flee. it just stays there and you can't mount it.

 

[Tmespe]

It is a "new" feature (i think it was added around the traps/stakes patch). I don't remember the exact numbers but the idea is that when your general is hurt there is a chance to lose his mount. The idea was to stop chars from just cycle charging infantry to death without being damaged. This was particularly noticeable with excellent chars like zhang fei where if you had the patience you could kill almost any infantry unit by just cycle charging him.
My understanding of how it works is that the higher the quality of the unit the higher the chance of it happening. It also happens more commonly if you fight anti large units. There is an almost 100% chance of losing your mount if you charge braced spears or stakes.

I have to say however that without the blood DLC pack the vanilla animation is a bit wonky. With the DLC blood pack the horse dies. without the DLC the rider is suposed to fall down and the horse flee. The problem is that sometimes the game uses the dismount animation and the horse doesn't flee. it just stays there and you can't mount it.

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Thanks! I figured it was probably something like this. It makes sense since cycle charging characters was super OP. I was a bit rusty so didn't pay that much attention to my characters, but now I've learned!

It's a good change overall. Actually makes sense to have them dismounted sometimes now.

 

[Classy Tomato]

Just finished Sun Jian campaign along with Liu Bei's (couldn't finish Lu Bu's as I overexpanded too early and unable to manage the corruption, damn his ineptitude in administration). For shit and giggle I defeated all factions and owned all counties, then I got a notification telling me that I won the ultimate campaign victory, which is kinda neat.

I wonder if the history team at CA is planning to make their own take on Warhammer's Mortal Campaign. Medieval 3 perhaps? I can see they focus on England and West Europe first, and gradually expand the world map to cover North Africa, the rest of Europe, and some parts of the Middle East.

 

[Anno]

I wonder if the history team at CA is planning to make their own take on Warhammer's Mortal Campaign. Medieval 3 perhaps? I can see they focus on England and West Europe first, and gradually expand the world map to cover North Africa, the rest of Europe, and some parts of the Middle East.

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I desperately want this to happen. Just keep expanding it piece by piece with a focus on making the various cultures/factions distinct.

 

[Classy Tomato]

I desperately want this to happen. Just keep expanding it piece by piece with a focus on making the various cultures/factions distinct.

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Yeah, they can make each faction really unique. They can also play around with different factions for a different time period just like what they did to DLC's in Three Kingdoms, from the Rome Britain era to the first crusade.

 

[karnage10]

For total war fans
total war troy was just announced released date 13/08/2020 as well as their first DLC will be about amazons.
The discussion has been toxic due to the game releasing as EGS exclusive for 1 year. It will be free for 24h at release day

 

[Classy Tomato]

I'm curious how they implement the addition of wood, food, and stone as resources needed to recruit units. I also wonder which game mechanics in Troy that'll be brought to and improved upon on the inevitable next main Total War game.

I'm also surprised that Troy's getting a faction DLC since Thrones of Britannia only got a gore DLC.

 

[karnage10]

I'm curious how they implement the addition of wood, food, and stone as resources needed to recruit units. I also wonder which game mechanics in Troy that'll be brought to and improved upon on the inevitable next main Total War game.

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That is not something new new. Previous total wars have had resources blocking some units. Usually however they don't directly block units but tech/buildings that recruit units.
That said it seems Troy is doubling down on it and i think it can be a great choice IF diplomacy works. Nothing will be more frustrating than being forced to always conquer certain parts of the map because the AI doesn't make deals with you for stupid reasons.
How many times in total war doesn't the AI reject a trade agreement because you get far more money than they do?

3 kingdomas has great diplomacy! if they can leverage that I think it could make the game a lot more fun

 

[Classy Tomato]

That is not something new new. Previous total wars have had resources blocking some units. Usually however they don't directly block units but tech/buildings that recruit units.
That said it seems Troy is doubling down on it and i think it can be a great choice IF diplomacy works. Nothing will be more frustrating than being forced to always conquer certain parts of the map because the AI doesn't make deals with you for stupid reasons.
How many times in total war doesn't the AI reject a trade agreement because you get far more money than they do?

3 kingdomas has great diplomacy! if they can leverage that I think it could make the game a lot more fun

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Oh, are bronze and stone treated as special resources in a sense that I only need to have a settlement producing those resources then I can recruit high-tier units as much as I want, or do they function as sort of currency? If all of these resources function as currencies and needed to both upgrade buildings and recruit units, I think it'll bring a pretty big impact on how we manage our resources, settlements, and army.

I absolutely agree that the trading system in Total War games is still left to be desired, and the change in the resources may improve it. Maybe just like how resources work in Civilization V? Like I'll have more leverage in diplomacy if I have resources that are needed by other factions, like rice in TW3K. Actually, having bronze, stone, and wood functions like rice in TW3K will indeed make the game requires more strategy and even more fun!

 

[Poodlestrike]

So, I read this manga, Kingdom, and it got me to redownload this. Naturally I decided to bash my head against the wall that is Zheng Jiang again, but this time, the later start is actually working out. I kept refusing merc contracts until I'd captured the iron mines near her start, then I took one... from Cao Cao... to go fight Lu Bu. I shoed up right when Cao Cao himself was about to assault Lu Bu's one stronghold and so collected a few thousand gold and Lu Bu's own personal spear for basically nothing. Meanwhile, Liu Bei took the city north of me, sadly, but I got another mercenary contract from Cao Cao to fight somebody who had the city straight south. Meanwhile, he was smashing the hell out of this dude everywhere else (I have no idea why Cao Cao kept hiring me, he didn't need the help), so I got a basically free city out of it. Was the guy's last province too. At which point, Lu Bu (who had joined Liu Bei) did the Lu Bu thing and snagged 4 of Liu Bei's territories in a rebellion. But I noticed he didn't have much in the way of actual armies, so I grabbed a basically-free farm province so I had everything in the commandery.

After a few turns staring across a river between the farm province and a small city with a full stack worth of Lu Bu, I decided to take a risk and moved up into Ambush stance. He took the bait. Ambush failed and I was looking a pretty dire prospect, with 0 forests to take advantage of my vanguard deployment in, a very small edge in numbers that was more or less negated by him having 2 units of heavy cav, and of course Lu Bu himself. I tried to get fancy and set up on a small island in a river, but it turns out shallow water doesn't do shit to cav charges and he ended up sweeping away basically all of my archers. Then something weird happened. He was refusing to duel Zheng Jiang, so I just had her follow him around and take potshots, and after a few of those he just sorta... went down? Like, really easily. After that it turned into a bit of a clusterfuck. Lu Zheng and her whole detachment got routed, as did most of my other units, but I'd snagged a legendary Vanguard general and gave him Lu Bu's spear, so between him and Zheng Jiang they managed to just grind out the remaining enemies like they were playing a Dynasty Warriors game. Was kind of ridiculous.

But now I've got that city of his. He sued for peace while he was besieging it, and I was low on dude, so I took the money. Now I'm just looking for my next expansion opportunity. And hopefully some more money so I can get a second army off the ground.