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P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,915
Barnsley, UK
Wondering how upset people would be if they saw my lists.

I only bought like 15 new games this year so half of my top 10 best games would also make it onto my top 10 worst games.
 

Deleted member 49611

Nov 14, 2018
5,052
the impression i get from this guy is that he doesn't like games. every headline he is shitting on a game. maybe that's his thing. just seems kinda funny he does a top 10 shitty game. i'd be interested to see what his top 10 best games are lol.
 

Exit Music

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,082
the impression i get from this guy is that he doesn't like games. every headline he is shitting on a game. maybe that's his thing. just seems kinda funny he does a top 10 shitty game. i'd be interested to see what his top 10 best games are lol.

it is definitely Jim's thing for the most part, but they'll have a best of list early in 2021 so stay tuned.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
the impression i get from this guy is that he doesn't like games. every headline he is shitting on a game. maybe that's his thing. just seems kinda funny he does a top 10 shitty game. i'd be interested to see what his top 10 best games are lol.
jim gets more attention from everyone for being negative. dude's gotta make money and they have a niche so you gotta play into that. i've followed jim since the destructoid days and they've always been like that.

they were basically a professional troll at destructoid and while they've toned down since then you see shades of it in the content
 

Clown_im_OP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,466
the impression i get from this guy is that he doesn't like games. every headline he is shitting on a game. maybe that's his thing. just seems kinda funny he does a top 10 shitty game. i'd be interested to see what his top 10 best games are lol.
Jim likes lots of games. You will see that in their annual Best Games list next week. If you're really interested.

And it's they/them.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,148
the impression i get from this guy is that he doesn't like games. every headline he is shitting on a game. maybe that's his thing. just seems kinda funny he does a top 10 shitty game. i'd be interested to see what his top 10 best games are lol.
Jim uses they/them pronouns and yes, they like games. There's a lot to be critical of within the games industry though and a large focus of their channel is used to cast a light on those issues.

You can see their Jimpressions series for more of a look on games themselves:
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
the whole narrative about jim shining a light on issues is funny because the game industry has actually gotten worse and more predatory while they made content lol. jim's message doesn't mean jack because they preach to the choir and doesn't reach the people that actually matter.
 
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P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,915
Barnsley, UK
the impression i get from this guy is that he doesn't like games. every headline he is shitting on a game. maybe that's his thing. just seems kinda funny he does a top 10 shitty game. i'd be interested to see what his top 10 best games are lol.
Hades, Streets of Rage 4, Ghost of Tsushima, FFVIIR and Fall Guys will be in his top 10.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,148
the whole narrative about jim shining a light on issues is funny because the game industry has actually gotten worse and more predatory while they made content lol. jim's message doesn't mean jack because he preaches to the choir and doesn't reach the people that actually matter.
It's not really a narrative, it's literally what they do. That they haven't managed to single-handedly reverse the negative trends in the industry isn't really indicative of much.
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,219
the impression i get from this guy is that he doesn't like games. every headline he is shitting on a game. maybe that's his thing. just seems kinda funny he does a top 10 shitty game. i'd be interested to see what his top 10 best games are lol.

There's enough people in the gaming media that cheerlead for games everyday.

And Jim Sterling clearly loves games, playing hundreds of hours of 'The Sh*ttiest Games Of 2020' couldn't be done by someone that didn't love games.

But gaming media is made up almost exclusively of people and publications that cheerlead and has a vanishingly small amount of people that focus on the things that can be improved.

Things like labour practices (crunch), gambling and MTX, representation. Basically the places where the industry fails it's audience and it's employees.

If there isn't people calling out these failures, how do they get better?

We want them to get better right?
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Me and my son played Dungeons through to completion, and started the next difficulty level and could barely scratch anything. It was weird, the normal was brain dead easy and the next step was impossible. The loot was boring, and in a Diablo game, what's the point if that's the case? We fell off quick.
That's not possible at all, if anything you had to grind a little bit more, and stop comparing it to a "Diablo game" when it's a "lite" version of that. Of course now there is more loot/armor and areas to explore. You should give it another shot on easy or whatever
 
Jun 13, 2020
1,302
the whole narrative about jim shining a light on issues is funny because the game industry has actually gotten worse and more predatory while they made content lol. jim's message doesn't mean jack because they preach to the choir and doesn't reach the people that actually matter.
This is insane. You're expecting one Youtube personality to single-handedly change the industry? You seem to have a hate boner for Jim based on your posts in this thread, but this argument is absurd.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
You have just patronised "younger gamers" in exactly the same way the video calls out.

Younger gamers are not stupid, they play minecraft, they build redstone calculators, they do this when they are four. The mental and physical dexterity to do so is way above anything like path of exile or diablo or other titles in the genre.

Minecraft dungeons was insultingly basic and shallow.

The best you can say about it, is that maybe it is a good introduction to wider gaming for Smash players introduced to the franchise by the dlc.
Bullshit at four year old kids making Redstone calculators.

Not even the 0.01th percentile of kids will be even approaching that level of complexity.

The beauty of Minecraft (and a fairly simple point that many seem to be missing) is that it's as complex or as simple as you want it to be. It's true that Minecraft has a crazy amount of depth but to many kids it's just digital Lego.

It certainly could be argued that Dungeons is disappointing due to lacking that depth, however, to claim that it's insulting the intelligence of its audience is asinine and absurd.

It screams of someone who is disappointed that the game isn't exactly what they wanted and so they came up with some bullshit to blame the devs rather than their own misplaced expectations.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Bullshit at four year old kids making Redstone calculators.

Not even the 0.01th percentile of kids will be even approaching that level of complexity.

The beauty of Minecraft (and a fairly simple point that many seem to be missing) is that it's as complex or as simple as you want it to be. It's true that Minecraft has a crazy amount of depth but to many kids it's just digital Lego.

It certainly could be argued that Dungeons is disappointing due to lacking that depth, however, to claim that it's insulting the intelligence of its audience is asinine and absurd.

It screams of someone who is disappointed that the game isn't exactly what they wanted and so they came up with some bullshit to blame the devs rather than their own misplaced expectations.

Precisely. Hit the proverbial nail fully on the head.

Are there some younger kids who are able to unlock tons of complexity in Minecraft? Most certainly. Is it likely that this comprises the majority of the younger or family Minecraft gamers? Not likely.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
This is insane. You're expecting one Youtube personality to single-handedly change the industry? You seem to have a hate boner for Jim based on your posts in this thread, but this argument is absurd.
i don't expect anything of course, i only find it funny that for all of jim's consumer activism persona the industry has gotten worse lol. almost like this whole thing is a put-on
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,749
it's like opinions can vary about different things/concepts and nobody holds one single monolithic thought in their head. crazy, i know.

You just called them a shill and doubted their advocacy. If there is something multifaceted about your opinions, this aint it. You can resume your Jim whining, I'm done going in circles.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
User Thread-Banned: Driving Thread Derail
You just called them a shill and doubted their advocacy. If there is something multifaceted about your opinions, this aint it. You can resume your Jim whining, I'm done going in circles.
i believe i would use fake vs. shill but sure, whatever. as with most quote tennis we're not going to change each other's mind so yeah.
 
May 17, 2018
3,454
the whole narrative about jim shining a light on issues is funny because the game industry has actually gotten worse and more predatory while they made content lol. jim's message doesn't mean jack because they preach to the choir and doesn't reach the people that actually matter.

Jim's problem is that no one that they criticize will ever listen to them because of their tone.

It works for their audience and for YouTube clicks and comments, but that's it.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The Shadow Ronin Samurai word salad whatever game is truly astonishing. How does Sony keep OKing these "games" in their platform?

Edit: Oh god, I forgot about the BLM symbol and evil riot imagery in that shitty Tom Clancy game. Not that it should surprise anyone given Tom Clancy being a massive right wing, flag and military-worshipping douche, so anyone making a game with his name on it knows perfectly what they're doing.

i don't expect anything of course, i only find it funny that for all of jim's consumer activism persona the industry has gotten worse lol. almost like this whole thing is a put-on

What the actual everliving fuck? You're saying Jim is dishonest because they, a single Youtuber with no actual executive power whatsoever, didn't single-handedly change the course of multi-billion corporations?
 
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Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,704
Upstate NY
Was kind of hoping "Everything Ubisoft Released This Year" Would make the least, but having that be represented by their most egregious offender was more than good enough.

...And I say this having just purchased Immortals: Fenyx Rising. In my defense I got it for like $20, so Ubisoft is losing money on selling me the game.
 

Karsha

Member
May 1, 2020
2,512
Battleground is not a bad game, with a different artstyle it would have been considered a cult classic lol
 

Golbez

Member
Oct 20, 2020
2,460
I was sure Jim would include Warcraft 3 Reforged in the list. Guess not even they remember that fucking terrible excuse of a remaster came out this year.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Jim's problem is that no one that they criticize will ever listen to them because of their tone.

It works for their audience and for YouTube clicks and comments, but that's it.

The point is not for those he criticises to listen to him. Corporate executives overworking and abusing employees, pushing lootboxes into children, and exploting BLM imagery to elicit fear aren't going to listen to voices telling them to perhaps not do that, no matter how friendly and kind the tone. The point is to make the general public aware of what these executives are doing, so that they may act accordingly.

And before you point out that the general public is mostly only concerned with their games and gives no shits about any part of the sausage making or political messaging, that's an oversimplification. The general public is not an unchangeable monolith, it's composed of individuals, and even individuals don't exist in a binary "cares / does not care" state; they can be brought to care more and more, eventually changing their purchasing habits over time. That is exactly what happened to me, and I would guess a lot of people in this forum. How the hell are people supposed to make informed, ethical purchasing decisions, even if they care, without people like Jim and Jason exposing these practices?

This "preaching to the choir" narrative assumes the existence of unchangeable sets of people (evil executives, alt-right douches, uncaring gamers, woke gamers, etc.) where no one individual is brought closer to a boundary by rethoric, let alone cross it. Which is demonstrably false, if only because GamerGate and the alt-right have been very effective in pushing people in the exact opposite direction for a while. Without people like Jim to push in the other direction, we're well and truly fucked.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
Yeah I think you're right, IIRC doesn't the retailer purchase it from the publisher? So Best Buy is losing money, not Ubisoft?
They buy on credit extended by the supplier. The publisher drops msrp by requiring the retailer to pay less back to them . Usually the loss for price drops like this are borne by the publisher.
 

Tanston

Member
Nov 29, 2017
336
I had no idea Minecraft Dungeons was such a bad game. Me and my son enjoyed the hell out of it. It scratched the AARPG itch for me and he loves minecraft so it was a perfect game for our family to play. Surely there was some other worse game out there somewhere? I'm all for subjectivity and all but this pick seems pretty damn bad, it was a well made game with pretty decent post launch support and near as I could tell pretty bug free. Not every AARPG needs Path of Exile levels of depth to be enjoyable.
 

Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,459
I didn't care to play anything on this list so I don't care but I don't really watch Jim's content for their opinions on what's a good game or not. Jim's very entertaining and the critical videos about the industry are appreciated for someone like myself who isn't always paying attention.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
The point is not for those he criticises to listen to him. Corporate executives overworking and abusing employees, pushing lootboxes into children, and exploting BLM imagery to elicit fear aren't going to listen to voices telling them to perhaps not do that, no matter how friendly and kind the tone. The point is to make the general public aware of what these executives are doing, so that they may act accordingly.

And before you point out that the general public is mostly only concerned with their games and gives no shits about any part of the sausage making or political messaging, that's an oversimplification. The general public is not an unchangeable monolith, it's composed of individuals, and even individuals don't exist in a binary "cares / does not care" state; they can be brought to care more and more, eventually changing their purchasing habits over time. That is exactly what happened to me, and I would guess a lot of people in this forum. How the hell are people supposed to make informed, ethical purchasing decisions, even if they care, without people like Jim and Jason exposing these practices?

This "preaching to the choir" narrative assumes the existence of unchangeable sets of people (evil executives, alt-right douches, uncaring gamers, woke gamers, etc.) where no one individual is brought closer to a boundary by rethoric, let alone cross it. Which is demonstrably false, if only because GamerGate and the alt-right have been very effective in pushing people in the exact opposite direction for a while. Without people like Jim to push in the other direction, we're well and truly fucked.
the unfortunate truth is that the genuinely toxic, virulent forces behind things like gamergate are stronger and savvier about pushing their vile message while jim has no influence on anything. it doesn't mean jim should stop, they are just a bad messenger honestly.

it's not unlike how republicans are expert messengers and spinners of their vile philosophies because they are playing to win while everyone else is hand-wringing.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
the unfortunate truth is that the genuinely toxic, virulent forces behind things like gamergate are stronger and savvier about pushing their vile message while jim has no influence on anything. it doesn't mean jim should stop, they are just a bad messenger honestly.

Oh yeah, they're a terrible messenger and communicator, what with the nearly million subscriptors and extremely successful Patreon.

Give me a break.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
ah right i forgot youtube followers and patreon dollars matter when it's convenient for your argument and don't matter when it's inconvenient. i forgot the rules sorry lol

Sorry, at what point do they not matter when discussing effect on an audience? I think Era is pretty consistent in making people with a large audience responsible for their words, positive or negative. And in any case it's certainly a damn better empirical indicator that "I just don't like their tone".
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,578
I had no idea Minecraft Dungeons was such a bad game. Me and my son enjoyed the hell out of it. It scratched the AARPG itch for me and he loves minecraft so it was a perfect game for our family to play. Surely there was some other worse game out there somewhere? I'm all for subjectivity and all but this pick seems pretty damn bad, it was a well made game with pretty decent post launch support and near as I could tell pretty bug free. Not every AARPG needs Path of Exile levels of depth to be enjoyable.

It's just their opinion. They also hated TLOU II, that has a MC of 93. And gave a 7 to BOTW.

People should see these lists as a personal opinion and not a fact.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
Sorry, at what point do they not matter when discussing effect on an audience? I think Era is pretty consistent in making people with a large audience responsible for their words, positive or negative. And in any case it's certainly a damn better empirical indicator that "I just don't like their tone".
we can discuss this for as long as you want but i have always felt jim's whole persona was fakey going all the way back to their tryhard edgy reviews on destructoid. i think they're a bad messenger based on all that.

that said there are contingents of people who just want a person on youtube to mirror their opinions back to them in a longform video and i think jim has cut themselves a decent paycheck on that. there's certainly no denying that they have enriched themselves on that type of modern personality-viewer relationship. it's good business

it kind of reminds me of how total biscuit had this huge cult of personality despite also being a fakey consumer advocate internet personality and god help you if you pointed this out in a total biscuit thread lol
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
we can discuss this for as long as you want but i have always felt jim's whole persona was fakey going all the way back to their tryhard edgy reviews on destructoid. i think they're a bad messenger based on all that.

that said there are contingents of people who just want a person on youtube to mirror their opinions back to them in a longform video and i think jim has cut themselves a decent paycheck on that. there's certainly no denying that they have enriched themselves on that type of modern personality-viewer relationship. it's good business

it kind of reminds me of how total biscuit had this huge cult of personality despite also being a fakey consumer advocate internet personality and god help you if you pointed this out in a total biscuit thread lol

It's not a "discussion" if the entirety of your argument starts and ends with "well it feels to me that way". Hell, it's not even relevant whether they're genuine about it; the only thing that should matter is whether they're effective. And if you think one million subscribers all started at "fuck corporations and these practices" from day one and none of them moved an inch in their belief through all these years, then your model of other people is in serious need of, well, updating.