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Menome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,399
For those wondering why Warcraft III: Reforged wasn't on the list, I'd surmise it's because Jim just doesn't play strategy games. At all. In the same fashion that they don't play fighting games either. Back when they were still doing 'traditional' reviews for fighting games, Jim would employ Laura Kate Dale to write them for their website and I don't recall any ever being put up for a strategy game ever.

Jim covered the initial clusterfuck overWarcraft III: Reforged's release and that was that. They've likely forgotten it even existed by this point. 🤷‍♀️
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
CT
For those wondering why Warcraft III: Reforged wasn't on the list, I'd surmise it's because Jim just doesn't play strategy games. At all. In the same fashion that they don't play fighting games either. Back when they were still doing 'traditional' reviews for fighting games, Jim would employ Laura Kate Dale to write them for their website and I don't recall any ever being put up for a strategy game ever.

Jim covered the initial clusterfuck overWarcraft III: Reforged's release and that was that. They've likely forgotten it even existed by this point. 🤷‍♀️

Which honestly still deserved to be on the shittiest games list because of Blizzard's action in late 2019, especially over Minecraft Dungeons.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
CT
I don't understand "it's basic... but it's minecraft" defense for Dungeons. Like have you played Minecraft? The amount of crazy shit you can do in that game in mind blowing.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,459
I was gonna say... I played it and it really isn't that bad. Kind of basic, but it's Minecraft.

I wasn't expecting Path of Exile.

I don't understand the confusion at all. Minecraft (the source material) is not basic in any sense of the word. It's limitless creation with some fairly complex systems under the hood. When you hear of a spin-off title with that pedigree you expect a portion of that creative juice to find its way into the spin-off (or at least that's what I had hoped for). They're not saying it's bad, it isn't top ten bad/worst games.
 

dreamfall

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,948
Sterling is the absolute best- heartily enjoyed this list, the Swery approach to Deadly Premonition 2 was so scathing and so shitty.
 

Argentil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
732
Cyberpunk: Regardless of the developer or problems at launch, you can't tell me Cyberpunk itself, is a bad game.

It's a bad game. I played it on a good PC. Cannot fathom why CDPR chose this IP and setting. It is neither Cyberpunk nor role-playing game. The wasted potential, lies, rampant exploitation and misrepresentation of minorities, and skeevy treatment of employees - oh, and let's not forget how openly they bribed influencers - all of that is the cherry on the shit pile. It's deserved.
 

Deleted member 1698

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
4,254
Minecraft dungeons is an odd choice. Played it with friends, and though it's shallow compared to other games in the same genre it was no slouch. Difficulty could be pretty brutal if you bumped it all the way, and there's some neat builds you can do. Pretty much the perfect introduction to the genre for younger gamers.

You have just patronised "younger gamers" in exactly the same way the video calls out.

Younger gamers are not stupid, they play minecraft, they build redstone calculators, they do this when they are four. The mental and physical dexterity to do so is way above anything like path of exile or diablo or other titles in the genre.

Minecraft dungeons was insultingly basic and shallow.

The best you can say about it, is that maybe it is a good introduction to wider gaming for Smash players introduced to the franchise by the dlc.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,046
You have just patronised "younger gamers" in exactly the same way the video calls out.

Younger gamers are not stupid, they play minecraft, they build redstone calculators, they do this when they are four. The mental and physical dexterity to do so is way above anything like path of exile or diablo or other titles in the genre.

Minecraft dungeons was insultingly basic and shallow.

The best you can say about it, is that maybe it is a good introduction to wider gaming for Smash players introduced to the franchise by the dlc.

This is the kinda complaint an adult will make an a kids behalf. Show me a kid gets minecraft dungeons then complains about it not being deep enough.

The game is more complex than Diablo 1, and that was the fucking amazing back in our day. Adult or child.
 

Deleted member 1698

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
4,254
This is the kinda complaint an adult will make an a kids behalf. Show me a kid gets minecraft dungeons then complains about it not being deep enough.

The game is more complex than Diablo 1, and that was the fucking shit back in our day.

Minecraft is not a kids game. If kids do play it, they are well above the level of basic shit like dungeons.

The same thing applies to just about ever videogame out there. Try to give it to a minecraft kid, they are back playing minecraft as soon as you turn around.
 

Kittenz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,156
Minneapolis
THE GI Joe that came out. I LOVED GI Joe when I was little, so I thought it'd be fun rent on Gamefly. OMG it was the most terrible 3PS ever.

EVER.


And Minecraft Dungeons was great. I second...or third...or fourth that injection.
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
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May 10, 2020
10,441
I guess the thing Minecraft Dungeons was missing were skill trees like this:
PassiveSkillTree.0.10.0.jpg


The game was always supposed to a basic ARPG for younger demographics unfamiliar with the genre.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,217
Pretty good video, Minecraft Dungeons feels out of place on this list though. Cyberpunk is extremely deserved but I don't think they mentioned the transphobic marketing surrounding the game in much detail.

I think Jim thoroughly enjoyed TLOU2, but I hope they forego including it in the best of 2020 list. It may be a cinematic and technical marvel, and a damn good game, but the crunch culture and the studio's portrayal of PoC in their most recent games shouldn't be something worth celebrating. But we will see. DOOM Eternal as well. Most publications aren't going to give a shit.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,459
what

have you actually.... watched the video.... read the video title?
they're saying its bad. its the top 10 shittiest videogames of 2020. is this a real post

Yeah I watched it. Check minute 25. "Shittiest doesn't just mean the bad game." The irony of asking me if I watched the video, lmao!
 

Deleted member 1698

User requested account closure
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I guess the thing Minecraft Dungeons was missing were skill trees like this:
PassiveSkillTree.0.10.0.jpg


The game was always supposed to a basic ARPG for younger demographics unfamiliar with the genre.

How about, I don't know, some sort of building and crafting system? Would that have made it too complex?

Building, crafting, fighting stuff, exploring. Oh shit kids just got introduced to minecraft! But will their tender minds be able to handle minecraft if all they have played is minecraft?

...

Introduction to the genre my ass.
 

ArgyleReptile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,914
Something that should be noted is that Jim specifies at the end of the video (you know, if you watched it), that shitty doesn't just mean the worst game or a game that isn't technically competent. Shitty, in their mind, encompasses any number of things which is why certain games like Avengers or Cyberpunk make the list. I personally had a decent time with Avengers and will do so again when more characters drop, but the stuff surrounding the game can indeed be called shitty.
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
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10,441
How about, I don't know, some sort of building and crafting system? Would that have made it too complex?

Building, crafting, fighting stuff, exploring. Oh shit kids just got introduced to minecraft! But will their tender minds be able to handle minecraft if all they have played is minecraft?

...

Introduction to the genre my ass.

It was a $20 ARPG for kids. It's a spin off of Minecraft, it doesnt need all of those things you've mentioned.

I thought it was fine for what it was and my younger cousins had a blast going through it with me.
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,306
ITT: Lots of people defending crap games

Saw someone say Hellpoint is a "strong" 6/10. That's 60%. How is that strong? Why should anyone waste their time on a 6/10 game when there are hundreds of great games to play that have come out in the past 20 years? Time is precious, and I personally can't understand intentionally wasting it on subpar experiences.

I just don't get it. Why go through all these hoops to defend below-average games? It's like spending a day listening to a shitty album when there are thousands of hours of great music out there that I haven't even tapped into. People need to stop selling themselves short.
1) The main point is that a 6/10 game probably does not belong on a "worst of 2020" list. Especially if there wasn't any hype behind it that may have lead to some massive disappointment or whatever, it feels cruel to add a possibly underwhelming, but otherwise decent indie to a "worst of" list.

2) As for why people play "6/10" games, well... perhaps it's not a 6 to others? If it's in a genre or style that someone really enjoys, or if there's a uniquely appealing aspect to the game amidst its flaws, what's an unremarkable game to some might be more enjoyable than a popular "9/10" game because of the niche appeal. I'd rather play a 6/10 Souls-like myself than the newest Mario game, simply because I enjoy those types of games more. My time is enjoyed more when spent on that then on a so-called 9/10 game in a style I don't care for. Frankly, your comment about "selling themselves short" feels kind of condescending. I know what my time is best spent on, thanks.

That said I only played the Hellpoint standalone demo and not the full game, but if it's representative of the final game, I would agree with the consensus in this thread that this game doesn't belong on any kind of "worst" list. It's a competent sci-fi Souls-like, at the very least.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,459
so you're maintaining hes not saying the game is bad and this isnt a list of bad games just because of that line

okay

I'm literally quoting them. They don't say it's bad. They says a lot of negative things about it (although not about its quality). A game can be shit to someone based on their expectations/disappointment.

But go on try to backpedal your way out of the irony.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,366
I'm literally quoting them. They don't say it's bad. They says a lot of negative things about it (although not about its quality). A game can be shit to someone based on their expectations/disappointment.

But go on try to backpedal your way out of the irony.

I don't need to backpedal anything. You're the one trying to argue that a game named for the top 10 shittiest games of 2020 with a barrage of arguments on why its bad wasnt actually called bad and how this isnt a list about bad games. You missed your own quote where he say "just" which means they might consider them shittiest despite them not being bad games.

"A game can be shit to someone based on their expectations/disappointment." i agree. but that doesnt give anyone immunity to others discussing their decision if they think something is shit based solely on personal expectations.

" They don't say it's bad. They says a lot of negative things about it (although not about its quality) " since you like linking the video so much from 8:01 onwards they say "it's lack of quality doesn't offend me as much" which pretty much means they're talking about quality yes, but maybe they didnt mean i- oh no they follows it up saying its still shite, yes, its about quality.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,815
i just wish he stopped calling games "Shit" because that does not help the discourse.

I wish he called the corporations and their policies "Shit"

Pretty gross honestly... the whole act is pretty cringe but meh, that's what Sterling wants to do and the audience enjoys it, but if they want to call out games for being bad (for the various reasons they listed in the intro), they could do so without just resorting to "shitty lip stick on a fucking ugly pig".
 
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RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,459
I don't need to backpedal anything. You're the one trying to argue that a game named for the top 10 shittiest games of 2020 with a barrage of arguments on why its bad wasnt actually called bad and how this isnt a list about bad games. You missed your own quote where he say "just" which means he might consider them shittiest despite them not being bad games.

"A game can be shit to someone based on their expectations/disappointment." i agree. but that doesnt give anyone immunity to others discussing their decision if they think something is shit based solely on personal expectations.

" They don't say it's bad. They says a lot of negative things about it (although not about its quality) " since you like linking the video so much from 8:01 onwards he says "it's lack of quality doesn't offend me as much" which pretty much means hes talking about quality yes, but maybe he didnt mean i- oh no he follows it up saying its still shite, yes, its about quality.

You called out my post asking if I had even read the title or watched the video. I clearly have and I would say more than you. Their shitty game list is not just bad/worst games. That was my original point that you quoted and it's still my point.

I didn't say it gives anyone immunity from discussion, and same can be said about those in the discussion not having immunity either.

They're saying it's still shit doesn't mean it's based on quality. They literally say their reasoning seconds after that.

And can you stop with the wrong pronoun already.
 

MrNewVegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,707
You have just patronised "younger gamers" in exactly the same way the video calls out.

Younger gamers are not stupid, they play minecraft, they build redstone calculators, they do this when they are four. The mental and physical dexterity to do so is way above anything like path of exile or diablo or other titles in the genre.

Minecraft dungeons was insultingly basic and shallow.

The best you can say about it, is that maybe it is a good introduction to wider gaming for Smash players introduced to the franchise by the dlc.
Either my kids are dumb as bricks or these 4 year olds building redstone calculators are a 0.00001 percent of the minecraft player base. I have a 9 year old and a 3 year old. Neither could come close to building that. Hell, my 3 year old is happy with chopping blocks and that's it.
 

OnanieBomb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,476
Pretty on point about Deadly Premonition 2 unfortunately. The game is so frustrating and disappointing.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,366
You called out my post asking if I had even read the title or watched the video. I clearly have and I would say more than you. Their shitty game list is not just bad/worst games. That was my original point that you quoted and it's still my point.

I didn't say it gives anyone immunity from discussion, and same can be said about those in the discussion not having immunity either.

They're saying it's still shit doesn't mean it's based on quality. They literally say their reasoning seconds after that.

And can you stop with the wrong pronoun already.

I stopped with the wrong pronoun as soon as i saw jim identified in another manner and edited my posts. attack my arguments and myself, but dont try to imply this shit on me please. i know enough about being misjudged to not replicated it.
 

Dervius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,896
UK
I'll paraphrase and say they thought it was a paint by numbers Souls experience with nothing new to add. Dropping enemies haphazardly around sparse barren levels with the usual tools to deal with them.

They spoke more positively about Mortal Shell and Surge 2 (specifically 2).

Edit: Fixed pronouns!

I profoundly disagree with their points, but thank you for laying them out.

I do agree that both Mortal Shell and Surge 2 are excellent Soulslikes however. But I also think Hellpoint has some very cool ideas.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,459
I stopped with the wrong pronoun as soon as i saw jim identified in another manner and edited my posts. attack my arguments and myself, but dont try to imply this shit on me please. i know enough about being misjudged to not replicated it.

I did go after your arguments. And I asked if you could stop using the wrong pronoun as a single sentence at the end of longer post after watching you use the wrong one multiple times. Thanks for editing your posts.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,459
I profoundly disagree with their points, but thank you for laying them out.

I do agree that both Mortal Shell and Surge 2 are excellent Soulslikes however. But I also think Hellpoint has some very cool ideas.

What do you like about it? I have it on a wishlist to check out and honestly don't mind Souls games that may fall short of where the genre got its name.
 

sacrament

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
2,119
Disagree on Minecraft, had a great time sllo.and playing with my son. They keep adding to it also. Great value, for some simple fun. And I like it has a different take to leveling via weapons and no classes - simple and refreshing, and forces different gameplay constantly.

Otherwise, great list and an entertaining watch.
 

ZeroNoir_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,726
Pretty gross honestly... the whole act is pretty cringe but meh, that's what Sterling wants to do and the audience enjoys it, but if they want to call out games for being bad (for the various reasons they listed in the intro), they could do so without just resorting to "shitty lip stick on a fucking ugly pig".

For exampl that Hellwhatever game. You can say it's derivative, it's bad, but they insist in "it's shit"

It's self published, it's not an ubisoft/activision/cdpr game, their attack is, well, unwarranted.

Gross.
 

panda-zebra

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,735
Dungeons isn't like the others, but if there's one fair reason Dungeons has a good shout for being alongside them in a top 10 shittiest games of 2020 list it wasn't mentioned by Jim... and no it wasn't that it was a rip-off to charge more for the game & promised expansions than buying them separately, it was simply how utterly fucking broken it was. The usual general bugs like levels/enemies/bosses not spawning properly or being invincible or in their wrong phase, crashes, graphical errors, perks not being compatible/clashing, broken online play, glitching/semi-responsive perks/artifacts, trophies/achievements not popping, characters getting overwritten with other player's character data, different platforms with all manner of fruity unique bugs, etc., etc. and the very worst one - save game corruption - and not just one bug causing it but seemingly loads of potential triggers.

If anyone had to report a bug or 3 as I did on the official mojang jira bug tracker, you could have seen endless examples of all of these issues and plenty more, some of the most memorable from parents telling of their kids who are distraught after losing their save game by simply booting the game up/starting a game/ trying to play co-op and even just by having their controller disconnect, asking mojang to do the impossible and recover their characters which was never going to happen as all data was saved locally (and the ways it could be destroyed numerous). It wasn't just crying kids, there was one guy whose girlfriend was so upset she couldn't even think about playing with him again after losing many hours of progress and a guy similarly who couldn't face starting the game a 4th time after losing progression again. Really unforgivable with this kind of game where you invest so much in your character and their set up. Checked it a while back and noticed a *lot* of the older ones had been vanished, bzapped out of existence, consolidated or lumped in with other semi-related stuff. I kinda lost hope at that point despite thinking they were turning it around with their updates and plans. Looked again just now and there's still a hot mess of issues despite the patches and updates.

I backed up our saves every time we played, but my kid wouldn't play again after one of the 2nd DLC levels crashed on us right towards the end (he was in tears) He's a *huge* MC fan playing on tablet, computer and ps4 (often at the same time, I'm not really sure why lol), he's got PJs, slippers, dressing gown, t-shirts, posters, top trumps, duvet, soft toys, more than a PS5's worth in MC/MCD Lego sets, I'm probably forgetting half of it. Dungeons has the same names for things and similar looks for most things, but it never had anything that hooked him in or made him feel like he was playing a MC universe game beyond the superficial. So as a MC game, yeah I'd go as far as to say it's maybe shitty in that regard, too. I wouldn't have been qualified to make that statement msyelf back when I was playing Dungeons, but since then he got me into MC with him and he helped me platinum it, which opened my eyes to what the game involved so I can understand some of the comments in here regarding Dungeons playing it too safe and being too dumbed down a game to bear the MC name or some percieved notion that more depth would be too complex for mere MC players, that's laughable.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,535
Portland, OR
I pretty much agree with that list, minus Minecraft Dungeons. It wasn't a top tier game for sure, but as a time waster for APRG fans, it did the job. I got it as part of Game Pass, played it for a few hours, had some fun with it and moved on. That's more than can be said for half the games I buy.
 

Bxrz

Banned
Dec 18, 2020
1,902
Cyberpunk being on this list makes this list invalid imo but its his list so more power to him
 

DrScruffleton

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,536
how is watch dogs legion escaping these worst game lists. Fuck that game, broken piece of shit. Did people already forget it existed?
 

Shpeshal Nick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,856
Melbourne, Australia
Great game TBH, one of my most played last six months. Well yeah, JIm can be a bit of a baby sometimes...

But like...what's supposedly actually shitty about it.

It's fine if you don't want a Minecraft based Diablo clone, but what's actually shitty about the game?

I'm not aware of too many other dungeon crawler/diablo clones aimed at kids. Seems like it's at least filling a gap.

edit: I"m not referring to you specifically in my post.