So you're saying he evolved into his final form. Ultra Instinct Refn ? 😜 LOL.
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Too Old to Die Young - Nicolas Winding Refn Winding Refn Nicolas Refn Winding Refn - Out now on Amazon
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Everything with Martin was deliberate audience trolling, just Neon Demon 2.0. Spend the whole season with him essentially as the protagonist, and then we have to watch his gf brutally die. He hits every revenge story trope in the book from her death, to Martin being tortured in extremely long sequences, to Yaritza being framed as this unstoppable hero who stands up for women, the list goes on. He wants us to believe either Yaritza will save Martin at the last minute as revenge for what they did to that girl and all the other girls, or for Martin to fake out Jesus and grab the machete.
Of course none of that happens and there's just a long sequence of Martin getting hacked to death, because Refn is a troll. All he's interested in now is saying "fuck you" to the audience and making his third act deliberately unsatisfying to feed some dumbfuck pretentious statement that could have been delivered just as strongly without going out of his way to troll. I never expected Martin to live or come out the ultimate hero of the story, but the way his story ended was just shit. This isn't what good filmmaking and writing is, and it dooms this show to be forgotten just like Only God Forgives and Neon Demon have been forgotten.
Of course none of that happens and there's just a long sequence of Martin getting hacked to death, because Refn is a troll. All he's interested in now is saying "fuck you" to the audience and making his third act deliberately unsatisfying to feed some dumbfuck pretentious statement that could have been delivered just as strongly without going out of his way to troll. I never expected Martin to live or come out the ultimate hero of the story, but the way his story ended was just shit. This isn't what good filmmaking and writing is, and it dooms this show to be forgotten just like Only God Forgives and Neon Demon have been forgotten.
I actually have to change what I said, it's not Valhalla Rising, it's Neon Demon only worse. So if you liked Neon Demon maybe you'll like this.
I don't think Refn has anything new to say, and I don't know what kind of a career he really has in front of him with how badly this show is bombing
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Gotcha. I expected
Viggo to kill him. When Janey told the cop about who she was dating and at what age. I thought Viggo was going to find out through Diana. And Yaritza was used half ass. I don't get her. She is fucking with her husbands business. I could see why you thought she was going to be the one to save Martin. But it wouldn't make sense. Viggo doing it made more sense to me.
I liked Neon Demon too. LMAO.
It's got a banging soundtrack, as well.
That would have been way better. Still utterly tragic and sad, since they formed a bond, but I'd have preferred that to what happened and I can see it working since Viggo had such a strong stand against underage sex, pedophilia, and taking advantage of women. Like, I don't think anyone watching gives a shit about Jesus or the cartel at all. Yartiza's characterization in general made no sense and the moments of her killing people didn't matter to me because of how all over the place and inconsistent she was. Yeah, she had no reason to save Martin, but going all out on Jesus and his men for murdering his gf would have made her character relevant to the main plot. Instead, she was just an element of Refn's thesis statement which sure is nice for him but not satisfying at all from a narrative point of view.
Viggo, Martin, and Diana were the only characters I had any investment in. At least Viggo has a satisfying arc I guess. Diana was an interesting character until Refn just forgot she was a character and used her as his own soapbox to literally speak directly to the audience. Not to mention a 4 minute scene of her masturbating, a 4 minute scene of her dancing, and a long up and down pan of her ass by the pool in case you forgot after the Neon Demon that Refn really wants to fuck Jena Malone. Episode 9 and 10 were like watching his discipline break down in real time.
Viggo, Martin, and Diana were the only characters I had any investment in. At least Viggo has a satisfying arc I guess. Diana was an interesting character until Refn just forgot she was a character and used her as his own soapbox to literally speak directly to the audience. Not to mention a 4 minute scene of her masturbating, a 4 minute scene of her dancing, and a long up and down pan of her ass by the pool in case you forgot after the Neon Demon that Refn really wants to fuck Jena Malone. Episode 9 and 10 were like watching his discipline break down in real time.
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The masturbation scene was actually 2mins 40secs.
Not that I timed it or anything....
But yeah, Refn has a very weird obsession with Jena Malone and episode 10 is you need to watch to see it's getting worse. I'm actually glad he ran out of money, just so Malone didn't have to do more ridiculous shit for 90 mins.
Not that I timed it or anything....
But yeah, Refn has a very weird obsession with Jena Malone and episode 10 is you need to watch to see it's getting worse. I'm actually glad he ran out of money, just so Malone didn't have to do more ridiculous shit for 90 mins.
I liked it until the third act, I thought it was actually going somewhere and had a message about the modelling industry with how 'old talent' is discarded as soon as the latest young hotness arrives, but then that shit happened.
Fucking Refn. I should have known after that shit he'd lost his fucking mind.
The show might have been marginally better if it didn't have the cartel and all the bullshit it brings to the story.
Now that you mentioned it.
I think this series could have been a lot more coherent without the cartel story. I liked Viggo, Martin, and Diana. Just those three carried this series. He could have easily done a TV series or film just base on Jesus and Yartiza. Flesh them out more because it made it seem like something major was going to go down with Jesus back in the states running the Cartel. Especially with the whole Jamaican gang. But yes, he really wants to bang the hell out of Jena. And the fact that episode was so short and he was running out of money he was like "fuck it. With what I got left I need to do this and give the unedited clips to my perv boy Kojima".
With all that. I enjoyed the series as an NWR fan. But the question now is this. Is he finally going to get away from "I want to fuck my mom" flow he got going on? Because I think is time to move on, lol.
Kojima and NWR have absolutely bonded over their perv instincts and I won't believe anyone who tells me otherwise. NWR with Malone makes Kojima with Joosten seem tame by comparison.
And yeah, the incest stuff has run its course.
lol I also forgot about the shower scene
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Oh the Shower scene, right. She was actually a very interesting character, but NWR forgot. Her and Viggo are the best-written characters in this show.
Nic says the heart of the film is in a scene in Episode 9.
Ep9 spoilers
He's talking about Diana telling that story to the waitress, right?
By far. Really obvious fetishization doesn't undo the character work for her, its just awkward.
Yes, that is what he is talking about.
Is the same women that got harassed by Larry(The Cop) in the first episode. Don't know if you noticed that.
The more I think about Janey in this the more pissed off I get.
It all just comes off as nihilistically cruel in the end, and the show was not made better for it.
Watches her Mom kill herself, gets taken advantage of by a 29 year old in her most vulnerable time ever, does amazingly well in school but is sabotaged by her Dad who wants to fuck her, her Dad is killed by her bf, and then she is killed at the age of 18 just to get the audience riled up for revenge that never comes and be repetitive on the theme of men abusing women
It all just comes off as nihilistically cruel in the end, and the show was not made better for it.
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I thought the 'heart' of the show was the scene with Viggo in the cafe where he's eating pie.
Viggo is such a tragic figure, had the show focused on him and Teller's character instead of all the bullshit surrounding it, we might actually have gotten a pretty decent show, instead we have 13 hours of piss and shit.
That's some Wolfenstein level of subtlety.Wait, the trailer park scene happens in episode. Maybe that's the heart of the show?
Makes you think.
[
But that's not discounting Viggo's scene at all. I consider both scenes are the same.
What Diana said pretty much falls with her philosophy and the premise of some of the characters in this show. A good example of her story applies
To Yaritza
The first 40 minutes of the hour and a half episode six with no spoilers:
20 minutes of incredibly entertaining assassination plot
followed by
20 minutes of two people getting dressed for the day
I'm now convinced this is an exercise in never editing out a single bit of footage.
20 minutes of incredibly entertaining assassination plot
followed by
20 minutes of two people getting dressed for the day
I'm now convinced this is an exercise in never editing out a single bit of footage.
Wait, the trailer park scene happens in episode. Maybe that's the heart of the show?
Makes you think.
Extremely subtle. Thank you refn.
I enjoyed this a lot. I would have enjoyed it a lot more if half the people in the thread weren't just posting spoilers when the thing hasn't even been out a fuckin week.
I think it's probably like your reaction when you arrive upon an animal giving birth, and you're not sure what the animal is, and then it tries to eat you. You have to tell someone.
This is my refn fan support group.
4/5 were the best stuff he's done since drive and 8/9/10 was the worst stuff he's ever done. Man has lost it.
It's almost stunning how thoroughly Amazon has buried this show. You can't find it unless you search for it and its not being publicized or marketed at all. Even Reddit is dead as a doornail for discussion about it.
Either Refn pissed someone off high up at Amazon HQ or whoever is in charge watched the show and decided people would cancel their Prime membership if they watched it through until the end. Never seen anything like this.
Either Refn pissed someone off high up at Amazon HQ or whoever is in charge watched the show and decided people would cancel their Prime membership if they watched it through until the end. Never seen anything like this.
2 episodes to go. But these things are so damn long it ain't always easy to block out time for them lmao
They probably don't want the new subscribers for Good Omens to watch this.
I thought it was extremely disturbing until
Professor Venture almost looks right into the camera and says "start raping him" or something like that and I died laughing.
What a goddamn ride that show was. Definitely, some of my favorite shots of the year are within it. Almost impossible to recommend it anyone but I had a lot of fun with it.
Yeah, I thought it was really weird the other day when I went to look for it and I had to search for it. I even goggled it to make sure it was on Amazon Prime and that I wasn't mistake or confused.
Watched the first episode and part of episode 2. I'm into it... want to like it... it's hard to watch sometimes with all of the long, slow shots though... My own preference would be to dial back the frequency of them a bit.
Episode 2 was slooooooooooooooow, but damn it was pretty.
The last third of the show went full Refn. Maritza in those neon lights in the club, got damn.
The last third of the show went full Refn. Maritza in those neon lights in the club, got damn.
Finished it, some really cool stuff, some really lame stuff. Especially the long shots, I had to skip through some, while other left me utterly fascinated. I'm used to slow movies, but generally they have an intention with their slow scenes. This is pure style wankery. I'm glad Refn made this though.
About the ending
About the ending
what happened to Jesus? Did he become a god? Refn really went out of money and cut it short?
Thank you, oh boy, I wonder the context... this thing goes places.
Fear X and Valhalla Rising are both underrated atmospheric viewings. You just need to be in the right mood for his films. He's very much an acquired taste.
Watched episode 2 last night. Even for a Refn fan, I gotta say it was tough going at times. I like cinematography enough that I do find those slow panning shots to interesting by themselves, and I enjoy watching how he frames everyone during those really long unbroken takes (like the police station scene with Miguel and the chief), but there were a couple of times during that ep that I started browsing the internet on my laptop next to me without realising it.
I'm still into it though, everyone saying things start coming together from ep 3 onwards is making me eager to watch that later.
I'm still into it though, everyone saying things start coming together from ep 3 onwards is making me eager to watch that later.
Loved that Yaritza did end up being the suspected vigilante - I guessed it almost straight away, but that was because I kinda wanted it to be true as well.