Oh my lord.
The stuff you see on Era these says...
Are you even serious?
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Tom Warren: XSS GPU to be 20CU running at 1.55Ghz ≈ 3.97TF
- Thread starter Kolx
- Start date
The stuff you see on Era these says...
Are you even serious?
That doesn't mean that they don't want to sell as many consoles as possible.
Do you think it'll hold value the first year? Like, I'm thinking I could get an XSS for say 400 bucks, give it and GP a try for a few months and then sell it after the honeymoon is over... hopefully not losing much money
they probably don't want to take a massive loss fighting a hardware battle they don't seem to be concerned about either, though
I really don't get the idea that either MS or Sony want to massively subsidize the cost, but if anyone does I think Sony has more to lose if they don't
Yeah I mean I think people are misreading what the hints are. To me Xbox and Phil Spencer have been acknowledging they won't outsell PS5 and from their strategy they don't have to, but they will absolutely make it as hard as they can for Sony to take over as quick as they did last time.
That would actually be a bit lower than I expected. Don't think many games will hit that 1440p target, will definitely be a 900p-1080p machine.
Haha yea remember in 2013 when 1080p / 60 was the target for PS4 / X1? Then most games launched at 720-900p / 30
It's the fact that you end the post with that sentence that makes it so good.
Can we take the BOM for the One X and come up with a reasonable BOM prediction for Series X? I think we can.
Regardless of what the price of the Series X is at retail, it will cost more to build than PS5. If they price match or go lower than PS5, it will be a bigger loss for MS. Ppl keep saying they are willing to take a bigger loss, they will even if they price match PS5
Somehow the PS5 will still be outrageously high, lol.
The Series X is an absolute monster, it's gonna come at a price.
I have some good news, and some bad news for you ;-)
You will be able to get your PS5 for a little less than that, but your XSX could cost considerably more.
I don't think we should ever frame the question on retail price as if the key consideration is what your chief rival is doing - both are huge businesses with responsibilities to share holders, first and foremost. Adhering to internal sales and profit budgets will be far more important than simply undercutting a rival.
In Sony's case, they have only failed to sell in excess of 100m units once (for a home console) and, I think its fair to say, they prefer that scenario to "only" selling c.85m! Cerny delivered a console (PS4) on time and on budget that has delivered more profit than even they could have ever imagined, after the money-sink the PS3 was.
Having trusted him again with PS5 do we really think the breif has changed and they will be forced to go up-to $599? For me, no, unless of course they just get greedy.
The PS5DE is primarily a response to how their customers are using the PS4 - it also happens to be an excellent way of locking people into the ecosystem and selling more PSN subscriptions.
The next stage is getting people to upgrade to PSN+. Hence why GoT : Legends is free with no MTX, they just want people to buy the game at full price and they subscribe to PSN+
Given what we know about the cost of the XsX vs the One X 500 for the XsX is looking optimistically low.
And even without that how do you get $200 in cost reduction from the XSS while including retail margin?
This is fantasy land. There is no reason to go below 399 and MS would lose their shirts if they took a $100-150 per unit loss trying.
The reason why you won't see anything cheaper than 399- BOM aside- is the Ps4. Sony sold 115 million of those SO FAR launching at that price, and exceeding the rate they sold those is unprecedented. Even the PS2 didn't sell that fast.
That waves a big ass flag to Microsoft's marketing department that 399 is where the floor is for selling as many units as they can build.
People thinking the PS5 or XSX will be significantly more expensive than the other are drinking some strong kool-aid.
Perhaps but you're still selling the lesser next gen console for that $399. I know launch prices change, the XSX and PS5 might be $499-699 so that 399 is just a different tier, not a reflection of a next gen console standard. It would just seem kinda weird to sell the Series S for 399 unless the other consoles are widely higher like 599. Who knows, consumers might not care and bite you hand off for a 399 Series S.
microsoft probably wants to be the only company with a next gen console at 399 which is why they created the series s. sony is not gonna be able to hit that price point next gen at launch. having the console at 399 also helps them not lose too much money and allows them time to drop the price on the components. who knows when we will see price drops for the next gen consoles. i don't see a process shrink happening soon or it dropping the price of the cpu's or gpus in a significant way.
Eh Sony releasing a digital only box suggests they are most definitely Aiming for that 399 tag and the regular ps5 at 499 or 549
Sony is gonna be losing money on the disk based PS5 so why do people think they are gonna want to lose 100 more on the digital console when they are likely saving very little on the disk drive. Again most people are moving towards digital so losing a ton of money upfront makes no sense. I don't see the digital ps5 being 100 dollars cheaper but likely 50 dollars.
It's mentioned on Xbox controller packaging now so that's a good indication it's coming this year. It's always hard to be sure during this pandemic, though.
Thanks a lot for getting back to me, it's great to hear that the cheap(er) next-gen option should be out this year and those on a budget won't have to wait it out.
With all the new tech and machine learning they have it's not unreasonable to think 1440p could be possible.
you've got to give Ms credit for cornering the market on top power machine "enthusiasts" and lowest price machine "budget" it is a brilliant strategy actually and places the PlayStation somewhere in the middle in both counts contrary to last generation starting point
I think at the end of the day, they just want to be close to each other in terms of price.
This seems most logical so prolly won't happen. lol
I'm now mentally preparing for
X1S 249
XSS 299
XSX 599
PS5DE 499
PS5UHD 599
Agreed. If it were less than $599 they would have announced the price already, IMO.
XSS is a great way to make people into multiplatform gamers. This is the key to dumbing down the "console wars" imo. Yeah you'll have a few ppl on that "why get a box get a pc"..."no games rhetoric" wave. But I imagine a good chunk of people just want to play good games and if they can get a Ps5 and an XSS on the cheap on the side for some game pass then they'll take that
i know. It's just a point that Kepler / 680 did not have RT acceleration and that demo didn't have RT at all, it was all rasterized.
The lowend baseline for Xbox development will be Lockhart for the nexafter the year or so of Xbox One support, which I feel is going to be thinned out after the Halo delay.
Sony is NOT going to mirror their 2006 two PS3 SKU price points in U.S. Dollars.
I think:
PS5, standard $549 USD
PS5 Digital Edition $499 USD
Xbox Series X $599
Xbox Series S $299
Xbox One S $149 ~ $199
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Here's my guesses of prices based on some assumptions.
1. Sony knew Microsoft had two systems.
2. Microsoft wasn't expecting the PS5DE at launch.
3. Neither company would bother designing a second system if it didn't mean at least $100 MSRP.
Sony built the best system they could for $499. Microsoft wanted the most powerful system and ended up at $599 knowing they could still beat Sony on price by having the S at $399. Sony is going to sell the PS5DE for $399 knowing they will make it up off their digital store front overall. Microsoft still has the most powerful system, but now has a budget system that doesn't make nearly as much sense as when it was designed in a bubble.
1. Sony knew Microsoft had two systems.
2. Microsoft wasn't expecting the PS5DE at launch.
3. Neither company would bother designing a second system if it didn't mean at least $100 MSRP.
Sony built the best system they could for $499. Microsoft wanted the most powerful system and ended up at $599 knowing they could still beat Sony on price by having the S at $399. Sony is going to sell the PS5DE for $399 knowing they will make it up off their digital store front overall. Microsoft still has the most powerful system, but now has a budget system that doesn't make nearly as much sense as when it was designed in a bubble.
Personally I think folks are crazy thinking models in same console family will only be $50 apart. Thats crazy talk.
I also think XSX will be higher than expected, ie $599.
XSX - $599 - they have talked about "value", not competing with Nintendo and Sony, etc... Its going to be pricey.
XSS - $399, maybe $349 if MS really wants to push that GamePass sub.
PS5 - $499 or $549. Sony needs to be cheaper vs MS even if they initially take a hit. Plus that $1.3 billion write off in the next Q is a tell.
PS5DE - $100 less vs PS5. It needs to be enough cheaper vs regular model to make folks bite for that sweet 30% revenue (Unless Epic spoils the party).
I also think XSX will be higher than expected, ie $599.
XSX - $599 - they have talked about "value", not competing with Nintendo and Sony, etc... Its going to be pricey.
XSS - $399, maybe $349 if MS really wants to push that GamePass sub.
PS5 - $499 or $549. Sony needs to be cheaper vs MS even if they initially take a hit. Plus that $1.3 billion write off in the next Q is a tell.
PS5DE - $100 less vs PS5. It needs to be enough cheaper vs regular model to make folks bite for that sweet 30% revenue (Unless Epic spoils the party).
Ok I see what source your using and his assumptions dont make any sense to me. there are some huge issues with his methodology.
The biggest thing he's missing is that people with disc drives buy a lot of digital as well. Over 50% of all sales were digital this gen, and it's only going up. This means much of those costs previously associated with supporting a device with a disc drive is drastically reduced. It also means Sony's average cut per sale is already up over 20% and they didnt have to overcompensate for the removal of a blu-ray drive to achieve it.
What this means is that they'll make a lot more profit by only passing the hardware savings from the removal of the drive on to customers. They'll sell over 100 million devices anyway, digital will be the heavily preferred distribution method anyway and Sony will enjoy a near 30% average cut anyway - dropping the price by $100 would just be leaving money on the table.
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Kinda. To be honest, I find it makes the entire conversation look even more silly. TF are a meaningless way to measure this stuff, but you have people argue that it's totally the most important factor for Series X and totally not an issue for Series S. It's funny that it is this thing that matters entirely or not at all. It's used as nothing but console warring ammunition by people who (99.9% of the time) have zero clue what it all means.
I think people are overlooking that cutting $100 off isn't the only way to add value to a console. Bundling in a game or subscription is a way to add value without losing costs on the hardware in the hope that the people buying it make up the difference. Both Microsoft and Sony have incentives to do this.
I think Sony is in a slightly more awkward position because the more they eat costs on the PS5 DE the less they can on the PS5 while the XSX and XSS are already inherently designed to have a larger price point between them. Of course that's assuming the PS5 DE exists as a budget option to begin with and not as a digital enthusiast option which is still possible and is the precedent of all digital only systems so far.
I just think it's too early to really think what the tactics are for all of these consoles until we get to know what the prices are. If the prices were as simple as $499 and $299/$399 for different SKU's what are the big two waiting for?
I think Sony is in a slightly more awkward position because the more they eat costs on the PS5 DE the less they can on the PS5 while the XSX and XSS are already inherently designed to have a larger price point between them. Of course that's assuming the PS5 DE exists as a budget option to begin with and not as a digital enthusiast option which is still possible and is the precedent of all digital only systems so far.
I just think it's too early to really think what the tactics are for all of these consoles until we get to know what the prices are. If the prices were as simple as $499 and $299/$399 for different SKU's what are the big two waiting for?
MS isn't making two systems for sony it's to reach in to various tiers of performance as an appeal to 1080p or 4k consumers with next gen tech. Eventually with a mid gen refresh they will have another notch of selling their platform at certain thresholds of performance.
MS and Nintendo don't chase sony they mix up time to time but at this point they really aren't aiming to beat them just coexist and make what they get.
MS is getting smart post their losses to android, apple, and sony about how it can get consumers to use their shit and make money.
Series S would make an incredible portable hybrid console offering with 1.5 TF fp32 GPU in a portable form factor with a screen and built in controls that play the same games that Lockhart runs at 1080p60 with RT off. Adaptive resolutions/scaling from 720p/900p native to 1080p. 120hz screen.
3.99 TF in console/docked mode.
Nintendo uses XSS 2020 performance as a baseline to equal or beat with their 2023/2024 hardware using Nvidia/ARM silicon, appropriate bus width, memory architecture, RAM type/amount, and most importantly, fast mass storage.
3.99 TF in console/docked mode.
Nintendo uses XSS 2020 performance as a baseline to equal or beat with their 2023/2024 hardware using Nvidia/ARM silicon, appropriate bus width, memory architecture, RAM type/amount, and most importantly, fast mass storage.
nah. 8 cores at 3.8GHz probably used more juice than the switch does in docked mode alone
Yes, I feel the same way.
Unless I can connect an external Blu-ray disc drive, in which case I don't care as much.
But if I'm putting it on the big TV, it needs a disc drive.
plus there's the whole memory issue... memory consumes a ton of power and they're going to need GDDR6 to remain within firing distance of XSX.
on the other hand, there is always the possibility of a home/live portable which is basically designed to work off of xCloud or in home streaming.