The one x version will be this gen but at high resolution. The series S will be next gen but at lower resolution.
I would go for the Series S over the one X but each to their own.
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Tom Warren: XSS GPU to be 20CU running at 1.55Ghz ≈ 3.97TF
- Thread starter Kolx
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The one x version will be this gen but at high resolution. The series S will be next gen but at lower resolution.
I would go for the Series S over the one X but each to their own.
The cost per unit is governed not just by the number of CUs but yield as well. By being so highly clocked the yield for PS5 chips is guaranteed to be worse than the XSX and XSS comparatively.
For the GPU related cost I'd guess it's closer to
XSS - 0.33
PS5 - 0.8-0.85
XSX - 1.0
Xss will play x1s versions for BC not x1x versions if 4k BC is important to u
In my opinion is about the lost this companies are willing to take than the components price. Well see
Because Microsoft is much more willing to throw away/lose millions/billions than Sony. Plus I think their goal is to make the most revenue from the series s.
PS5 reported BoM by Bloomberg is US450.
XSX estimative BoM by Zhuge Ex is between US470~US520.
Sony wants to sell more DEs than regular PS5s so making the difference only $50 isn't going to sway that many people; me included. If the difference is only $50, I'm definitely getting the disc version.
Some people here trying to tell me that shaving off the disc drive is enough to remove $100 off the PS5 price, and then the huge gulf in specs between the Series S and the PS5 DE will only create a $50 price difference?
Okay chaps. That checks out.
Okay chaps. That checks out.
The majority of predictions I'm seeing seem to think this is case, which to me is definitely way off.
A blu-ray drive doesn't cost Sony anywhere near $100 on the BOM for 10 million units I'd be surprised if it was significantly more than $50.
The Series S is obviously a move for the price conscious consumer with specs that demonstrate that, minimum its $100 less than one of the high-end next gen machines.
In terms of the PS5 to PS5 DE difference $50 - $70 makes sense to me.
Custom don't mean expensive and even there patent with SSD was talking about how to make it cheaper than a normal SSD and MS SSD also bigger .
Higher clocks don't mean more expensive that would come down to yields , if they end up being the same Sony APU will be cheaper since it smaller .
Other things you list won't drive up the cost that high .
As for deeper pockets who know how much the willing to lose since both of them have been showed to lose billions when need be .
That is not guaranteed at all until we get some more info RDNA 2 yields .
Then why are we seeing prices of XSX as high as $599 and the PS5 as low as $399?
I doubt Microsoft is willing to take huge losses but you are also talking about a company who eseentially gave away Windows 10. Sony is also much more reliant on their console business but Sony changed it's whole strategy after the PS3 almost crippled the company financially.
No one is sure yet - but the thought is that lockhart should be able to play xbox one x profile games - so it should match perf for xbox, xbox 360 and xbox one games with xbox one x
For next gen it will be a 1080p machine mostly though
Yea doesn't make sense .
Imo
Xss 299
Ps5 de 449
Ps 500
Xsx 500
Given what we know there should be 150$ difference to entice gamers to get xss over ps5 de imo and there will be (ms knows it and they have said many times they won't be out of touch in price and value )
That narrative is severely lacking citation, specially when Phill Spencer said just days ago that their business strategy isn't selling more consoles than their competition.
It's not about the raw cost of the drive. Sony would take more of a loss on that up front to lock users into a digital ecosystem where they make significantly more from digital purchases through their store front.
This is my feeling - with perhaps the xboxsx matching ps5de
They are going to take a loss to push the market in a direction its most of the way to already? The digital one will be at the very most 50 dollars cheaper
So let me get this right, going from 10 to 12 TF (with a less capable SSD) translate into a 100$ difference between PS5 and XSX, but going from 10TF to 4TF (with a less capable SSD) translate into only a 50$ diff ?
because people are dumb.
MS will match any price sony puts out, Sony's machine wont be cheap. thats it.
Microsoft is flexible on the Xbox Series X price tag
Phil Spencer says the next Xbox is supported by MS leadership and they can "stay agile" with the planned pricing for the console.
Same applies to XSS though, it is a digital device with reduced ram and GPU, If sony can price PS5 DE at 399 then Microsoft can sell 299 XSS
Sony did not changed it's whole strategy it just got the lost under control .
Which is how it was for PS1 and PS2 where they lose money but not some huge amount like PS3.
Both MS and Sony could lose money on the console the question is what the max they willing to lose.
1. The different in price I estimated for the PS5 has nothing to do with BOM. It's all to do with Sony locking digital users into their ecosystem, taking the loss up front so they can bleed them dry with digital purchases.
2. I had thought that the XSX would be $299, but since we recently found out that the X1S new model is going to be that price there's no way that will happen now, and there's no chance it will be cheaper than last gen's console. $349 was the next best bet.
How is it going to work when they would have the XSX and the new X1S both retailing at $299?
I just don't think Microsoft would want to launch a console at a higher price than Sony again after what happened with the Xbox One - just as I think Sony would avoid $599.
As I said though, I also think the production cost of the XSX is at least closer to that of the PS5 than many suspect. Despite having higher performance on paper, you can see where they've reduced costs compared to Sony to bring its price down.
I wouldn't try to compare estimates by two different sources.
But that really wasn't the point of my argument: it was that there's no way the price difference between the XSS and PS5D - which is a large gap in performance and actual hardware costs - is smaller than the price difference between the PS5 and PS5, which is just a Blu-ray drive.
That makes no sense, unless Sony are artificially inflating the price of the drive by a lot.
I can only see it being more than $50-80 if they are trying to discourage people from buying it, in favor of the digital model. $100 or more seems unrealistic.
The citation I would use is cash on hand: reported to investors as the amount of cash a company has available.
Microsoft 2019 had the highest cash on hand in tech with $130bn, Sony 2020 has around $30bn.
If MS wanted to use $1-2bn of that to finance a price reduction on Xboxes it obviously is a much smaller proportion of their cash than Sony's.
Additionally Sony will definitely sell more consoles than MS so (paradoxically) making a loss on each console is not only a bigger spend into their cash on hand but a bigger (short term) problem as they'll lose more per month. Obviously in the long term for Sony that cash gets made back through game sales.
The point is though it hurts MS less to make that decision now. if they want to. That's not to say it a decision the CEO Satya Nadella and the rest of MS takes lightly because even $2bn just going to Xbox in one year is a lot, personally I think its unlikely.
Apples to oranges comparison. You need to compare ps5 vs series x and what we know so far (series x slightly higher BoM) and look how that would be expected to shake out. Then you need to consider what pricing decisions the console manufacturers can make from there.
So for xbox you would consider how much they can shave off the Bom by reducing ram and Gpu and cooling and optical drive. I think they could take off ~125 maybe more who knows. So I expect the Series S to be 150 cheaper because they are happier to take a bigger loss due to higher digital share.
Looking at PS5 the DE will be roughly $30 cheaper to manufacture so can be sold at $50 cheaper because of more likely to take a loss due to increased digital share. The problem is $50 isnt a lot on sticker price, so could be more aggressive And drop by $100.
Of course we could say that MS are not happy with the Series S only being $150 cheaper than series x so may take a bigger loss.
My expectation is:
Series S 349
Ps5 de 399
Ps5 449
Series x 499.
Reasoning being we know ps5 is or at least was cheaper to produce so if it is sold $50 cheaper than series X it is likely being sold at a similar loss to series X and then we can go from the for a $50 reduction for DE.
Series S could be cheaper than 349 but I dont see it.
Exactly. Xbox needs a big difference in price to be competitive against PS5. Current gen Xbox was basically on sale all year round and still sold less than PS4 month after month.
I know this is going to be seen as snark, but I sincerely hope that something like the Series S shows people how meaningless TF are as a measure of "power". I know that people want an ultra simple measure, but this has been silly for a long time.
Poor labeling on Tweak Town's part. Should say that it's both Series X and Series S exclusives.
They tell y'all constantly they don't want no smoke with the PS5, and y'all don't listen. And don't really know where you getting this from, lol.
Meaning they can hopefully match the price (at a loss) to stay competitive with the stronger system not "lose millions/billions" in a race they have have lost 3 times already.Microsoft is flexible on the Xbox Series X price tag
Phil Spencer says the next Xbox is supported by MS leadership and they can "stay agile" with the planned pricing for the console.www.gamereactor.eu
Yes, be agile on price has nothing to do with Microsoft willing to lose bilions, in matter of fact, all the moves done this generation tell a different story.
I don't believe PS5DE will be that cheap compared to XSS.
People are expecting way to low prices for Playstation but for Xbox they don't, like they want to sell it on profit.
As I already assumed. Lockhart can't emulate XBX games. There is not enough ram and the GPU is probably not powerful enough.
This cheap thing is going to be used to stream games at 1080p and a cheap next gen entry to fight Sony. It's win win for MS and unfortunately lose lose for developers and multiplatform games. The next gen baseline will be 10GB of ram + 4tf GPU.
This cheap thing is going to be used to stream games at 1080p and a cheap next gen entry to fight Sony. It's win win for MS and unfortunately lose lose for developers and multiplatform games. The next gen baseline will be 10GB of ram + 4tf GPU.
My opinion lol.
Look at the list of acquisitions from both companies. Look at the revenue of both companies. Look at how much Microsoft has been investing in gaming lately. Look at Nadella's comments on gaming. Look at the overall recent gaming strategy of Microsoft e.g. making gaming more accessible to more people.
The 360 was the cause of a 2 billion dollar loss in 2007 and no one blinked an eye lol. Now that the end goal of Microsoft as a whole is to get people signed up for services, they will in my opinion gladly take a big short term loss for the potential of long term gains.
But Sony won't be judged on price in a vacuum.
Lockhart/series s has been rumoured for a long time now and the PS5 DE came out of nowhere so Sony have had longer to decide on pricing and factoring in their competitors than Microsoft have.
As likely as it is that Microsoft could sell the series s at a loss and get it out cheap, it's just as likely that they figured the series s would already be cheap in comparison to the standard PS5 and series x and so price it higher than some are expecting now.
Don't forget, Tom Warren also tweeted once that "just because the series s is cheaper, doesn't mean it will be cheap".
As rich as Microsoft are, xbox are in a much weaker position than playstation is. As great as gamepass is, it is still losing money and the only was to change that is to get much more people subscribing. Series s could definitely help with that but selling it at a loss would also hurt that for a while.
Ultimately no one knows how this is all going to play out and anything could happen so it's exciting to see what does play out.
The price difference isn't the cost of a disk drive. It is the additional share earned from the psn 30% cut (though current antitrust against apple could be interesting).
The article below suggests a software attach rate of 9.6 games per console. That would more than cover the cost difference given it will all be through psn and there are no trade ins.
PS4 Has a Very High Software Attach Rate, Average Player Owns Around Ten Games
That's a lot
www.pushsquare.com
Yes, i have being looking for years now.
If you have being looking, they whould know that Playstation revenue is twice of Xbox, so your coment about one company willing to lose more then other makes no sense. And if you look at overall gmaing strategy, that makes even less sense to lose more money on hardware when they are going for a digital future.
It's an identical console minus the disc drive.
There's not really a $100 dollar give there at all.
They did indeed change their strategy, which is why we saw so many PS3 remasters and why they bought Onlive to help alleviate their BC issues. This gen was also them changing PSN Plus to a online paid service like Xbox Live. Sony did a lot of changes to be profitable much quicker and the PS4 was the fist console that was made for developers without proprietary hardware like Emotion Engine or The Cell. Sony was taking a huge bath on the PS3 and the dfifficulty to program for backfired because they lost marketshare.
Now we see Microsoft's startegy has changed as well. Game Pass, PC support of basically all 1st party titles, giving away Windows 10. They are playing the long game now, not a 6-7 year console life cycle the others do.
i mean that's not false, it's entirely possible (even probable) that Xbox is in the red over its entire lifetime. If that would be true for Sony (or anyone else really) they would be long gone.
that being said they're not going to undercut Sony on HW price.
All insiders seem to be pointing at Microsoft undercutting the PS5 price.
