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Tom Warren: Developers are saying CPU and SSD are key to next gen, not teraflops, Lockhart won't hold back games
- Thread starter Neat
- Start date
I agree. at 4.8-6GB/s and 8-9GB/s as the throughput you can do equally amazing things.
I think we are more likely to see Sony do a PS5 Pro and drop the price of the PS5 than see them release a cheaper version.
I can tell you for me, playing Watch Dogs 2 on a base PS4 and One S, finishing it on a One S, no. Each console was in a different room.
Now, if you mean DF threads, sure. I can see most things if its pointed out to me or I actually look for it.
How good my tv was probably played a bigger part vs the actual consoles.
Fair enough, I know I can see the difference between 900p and 1080p.
Halo 4 was a late gen game that pushed the 360 and seems like halo infinite will do the same for the xbox one
If a next gen game targets 4k60 then Lockhart will be 1080p60 with the same graphical settings.
Im not sure why the concern for it being underpowered when 4TF is actually a bit overpowered for its task of quartering the XSX's resolution.
Differences in approach make for more interesting competition, IMO. It means more creatively will be needed across the board to claim the hearts of potential consumers. It also might make investing in both more worthwhile.
Halo 4 was incredible at the end. Game wad gorgeous. The difference between halo 3 and halo 4 was nuts. Really showed how power evolves throughout a generation.
It's not. What you saw there is another example of people twisting things to fit their faulty narratives. A lot of that going around in this thread.
Games will get a bit smaller because of the SSD, but lockhart can also have a smaller install like texture packs on pc
Seems like each measurement is using specific metrics.🤔
Such is the life in these kinds of threads...lol.
Well since you said it, lol Basically this.
Hmm if you have a game that relies on ray traced lighting for puzzles etc how would that translate to Lockhart? Is it going to handle ray tracing even at 1080p? It would be nice if it was integral to lighting the game and not just eye candy.
Because hellblade II looks better than any real-time game ive ever seen in my life.
According to Andrew Goossen, the System architect they are aiming for over 6GB/s. Here is the article. I suspect the actual throughput will be between 4.8 and 6 once we know the full details.
Below is the quote from Mr. Goossen. We also need to remember we still haven't heard about the theoretical max throughput from MSFT. I know Cerny said 22GB/s for the PS5. Personally I doubt such figures and wonder of what use that is so maybe someone else can shed light on this.
Minecraft RTX seems like more od a proof of concept than anything. I wouldn't really consider it an example of the types of games we'll be getting next generation
So let's say microsoft releases a 1080p60 or 1080p30 game on Series X with full RT...lockhart how?
Lockhart has 1/3rd the power for 1/4th the resolution. The games might even perform at better frame rates than the XSX.
Why would anyone releaae a 1080p game in 2020+? You guys love the bring up this argument and it just isnt realistic.
"Our second component is a high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s". Andrew Goossen.
So to be fair that's why I said 4.8-6GB/s
The 6GB/s is the theoretical max throughput of the block, just as the 22GB/s is for the PS5. Neither console is going to typically, if ever, hit the theoretical max of the block. Claiming the XSX SSD is capable of 6GB/s and comparing it to the 8-9GB/s figure for the PS5 is being disingenuous.
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It really doesn't. Am 8c/16t CPU is going to eventually fall asleep at 1080p, leaving the 4TF GPU as the major bottleneck.
I game at 1080p with an i7-9700K and RTX 2080, and the latter is still what holds me back.
This 12TF vs 4TF scenario is not going to just be the ""meh, flip the switch from 4K to 1080p" solution people are writing it off as. Much stronger sacrifices will need to be made if games are targeting the full potential of the 12TF machine.
And no, before someone quotes me, this is not a PC situation. Devs do not care about how things run on lower end PCs as the platform in general is not the major target. System requirements are posted and you sink or swim.
Why oh why do we keep regurgitating this flawed position. If games were made specifically targeted at the RTX 2080 or similar tier GPUs, would you be able to say what you are? Would Star Citizen be what it is if CIG cared about servicing a massive range of low spec hardware?
Lower spec PCs don't hold back higher-end ones, because so few games are made JUST for the higher-end one. In fact, so few graphically intensive AAA games are made JUST for PCs AT ALL.
Games are made for consoles first and foremost. Devs do not target for the consoles and also think "hmmm what potato PCs do we want to be able to play this?" PC is the afterthought, no use pretending otherwise. Watch how the system requirements change when the next-gen exclusive games start popping up. Is little Johnny with his GTX 1050 going to be in consideration? Nope. Will poor Bobby and his quad core CPU be in the thoughts of the developers? Maybe their prayers. The same thing happens every generation. The specs required go up, and you upgrade or swim with the sharks.
With the consoles, targeting the full potential of the 12TF console, while mandatory support for a 4TF machine is ordered is a completely different scenario. There is no go sink or swim to pass along to users. The devs have to make sure everything they want to do work on that system.
You are a PC gamer, so I know you have seen enough benchmark graphs to know how much stronger a GPU with three times the theoretical compute actually is in practice. It's massive.
I don't know enough about tech but I certainly would have assumed such a different in console power would make it harder on game development or that the final version would be noticeably worse. I don't know?
EDIT: I'm curious what AAA developers think about having to take into consideration a 4TF machine. If they were being honest would they be annoyed? Will some consider it an afterthought anyways?
EDIT: I'm curious what AAA developers think about having to take into consideration a 4TF machine. If they were being honest would they be annoyed? Will some consider it an afterthought anyways?
When the ramification of PCIE 4 NVMe SSD have been outlined by the lead system architect for one of the systems, coming across a post that reads blatantly obtuse it is like suddenly walking into a wall.
Yea but that's a trailer that might not be running on actual Series x hardware where Minecraft DXR is running in realtime on series x hardware with one of the most graphically expensive features available now and at playable framerates.
And why is that the case? I'd say this generation made a pretty decent case for the impact of scaling resolution.
They aren't going to do that.
If it takes nonsensical hypothetical scenarios to discredit the entire technical strategy, then maybe the strategy isn't actually bad.
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Okay I posted the article where Goossen says over 6GB/s. Where did he mention it as a max throughput? If I remember correctly, Cerny clearly stated that it was as much as 22GB/s.
I feel like I should post this again:
www.resetera.com
WindowsCentral: Xbox rumor roundup: 'Xbox Series S' Lockhart, new Xbox headset, May event, and more
Man I'm getting too old for this shit. Thread whining isn't really my thing but this train has officially been derailed. Which is a shame because there are good discussions to be had without all the system wars bullshit and the strawmen being brought up against imaginary attacks.
www.resetera.com
One X and One S are definitely being phased out but I feel like One SAD sticks around for a while as a super cheap entry point system.
Hopefully they don't do that and make the entry point xCloud, but we'll see
It doesn't really affect new releases, I don't think SAD staying on as an ultra cheap entry point means new games have to release for it. It's just for the type of consumer that only comes on at like, a $99 price point lol.
Okay so it's 6 point something. Regardless of what it is, you're comparing it to the typical performance of the SSD in the PS5; which one again is a disingenuous comparison meant to downplay the difference. If it was the typical performance of the SSD in the XSX, Microsoft would had used that figure instead of 2.4GB/s Raw and 4.8 GB/s Compressed.
if you are targeting the full potential of a 12TF card, what stops you targeting the full potential of a 4TF card and having things scale?
Why do you think dropping resolution isn't going to work? That's exactly how we get scaling between machines these days. Unless the GPU is not "just" less CUs and different frequency but rather has major different bottlenecks somewhere else. The TFLOP differential between Xbox One and Xbox One X correlates fairly closely to the difference in number of pixels pushed between them - a factor of 4 (1080p -> 4k or 720p -> 1440p or similar for heaps of games).
There are other architectural differences at play there - higher resolution requires higher bandwidth, and so the X1X also has better bandwidth and more system memory to allow for other things. Slightly faster CPU. But why shouldn't we expect that the difference in power, if other parts of the device are the same, couldn't be made up for primarily by droppping resolution? I'm not following your argument here, really. This is the kind of thing that will depend on the game, and I'm sure some will be using effects that scale very favourably or very unfavourably based on resolution, which will require tweaks on either the low or high end machine to give both similar performance profiles, but the general principle doesn't seem flawed at all.
Lol, Teraflop train lmao. But i dont see how this will work tbh. Hopefully it does.
You obviously have no idea how the storage device actively plays into the design of games itself.
SSDs are changing the game.
User Banned (3 Days): History of platform warring
Tom must be pretty excited about the 120% gap in favor of the PS5 if the devs he's talked to are saying SSDs are the real game changers