• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Neat

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
New York City


I thought this was rather interesting. Tom Warren of The Verge thinks CPU and SSD (and not teraflops) are most important for next gen consoles, in order to push for normalizing 60fps, and according to him, developers that he spoke to feel the same way. He then went on to mention how Lockhart, the expected lower spec Xbox console, won't be holding back next gen games. Thoughts?
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,491
Makes sense. Lockhart is looking to compromise on resolution (1080p/1440p machine vs its 4k older siblings) and possibly visual effects, not game design - which is far more beholden to CPU, RAM and storage than raw GPU brunt. Still not sure why people fail to understand this.

I'm hopeful that when they reveal Lockhart they'll outright wag the fact in your face that Lockhart won't be undermining next-generation gaming. Just show me Fable 4 on Series X in ~4k, then cut to 1080p Lockhart footage.
 

Lowrys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,399
London
My understanding was that the current gen consoles had great GPUs but notebook-level CPUs, so I don't think this is surprising.
 

Atheerios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,099
Of course it won't hold back anything, just like lower-specs PC don't hold back the game market in that platform.
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
So lockhart will have an SSD comparable to XSX? Because (unlike GPU) I can't see how developers can compensate for a slower SSD.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
So lockhart will have an SSD comparable to XSX? Because (unlike GPU) I can't see how developers can compensate for a slower SSD.
I think the expectation is that Lockhart will largely be the same as the XSX with a much weaker GPU (and maybe less RAM?)
 

Turkoop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,655
Cologne, GERMANY
First, he says that the Gap between the GPU of PS5 and XSX will show its differences and then he says, GPU won't the most important feature ?!
Yeah sure Tom.
 

Ukumio

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,415
Australia
So lockhart will have an SSD comparable to XSX? Because (unlike GPU) I can't see how developers can compensate for a slower SSD.
Unknown, but based on what we know (or rather rumors and insiders) is that Lockhart is meant to give basically the same experience as Series X but at a lower resolution (and less flashing) so SSD would be comparable. I could see them also skipping the disc drive but who knows.
 

Azerach

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,196
The CPU and SSD have to be the same as series X then, which is already rumoured to be pretty expensive. They can't save much money on the GPU alone. I can't see the point of this SKU.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
So lockhart will have an SSD comparable to XSX? Because (unlike GPU) I can't see how developers can compensate for a slower SSD.
lockhart will reportedly have less ram, meaning it will use lower quality textures, then developers need to stream less data, meaning MScan slow down the SSD to an extent
 

kami_sama

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,005
Yeah, after all the GPU wasn't the issue with the pro or X.
If everything but GPU is the same on lockhart it'll be the goto console for 1080p.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Well, that's correct, but I believe many will interpret it however they want. CPUs in current consoles are very weak. HDDs aren't standardized in terms of speed, and even the best ones are very damn slow compared to even low-tier SSDs, denying certain speeds of data streaming and causing major loading times. A much better CPU and mandatory SSD will mean that developers will be able to stream so much more data, offer so much wider and busier open worlds without having to do excessive trickery by inserting view-blocking geometries, pop-ins and whatnot. This is a huge deal for consoles in general, as the ambition and scope of games will drastically increase.

Better graphics, in comparison, aren't gonna matter to that extent when you look at how games like Forza Horizon 4 or The Last Of Us 2 look. But don't be mistaken, as is the case between PCs with different tiers of graphics cards, the graphics will also matter, and overall (unless a studio optimizes the game in an odd way), games on Series X should look and perform better thanks to the better GPU and CPU. The SSD will certainly help with the scope, but not the actual visuals.

As for Lockhart, it won't hold things back because it's still gonna ship with a comparable CPU and an SSD probably, just with everything else on a far lower tier. So it's gonna be like PC, just as it was for XB1/X and PS4/Pro: you can either buy the expensive hardware and push up the settings to the max, enjoying photorealistic graphics with high resolution and framerate. Alternatively, you still get the same level of worldbuilding and gameplay complexity, just with less beautiful assets, lower resolutions, lower framerates (whichever the devs will prioritize). It's all about how much you're willing to spend and how much do you care about the eye-candy alone. Because Lockhart will, too, offer the same open world games, the same multiplayer experiences with dozens/hundreds of players, the same vast cities with hundreds of NPCs. They just won't look as sexy as on PS5, and especially not as much as on XSX.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Any PC-focused dev would tell you the same thing since a long time yeah.
 

Marble

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
3,819
Of course it won't hold back anything, just like lower-specs PC don't hold back the game market in that platform.

Of course they do, when they still use HDD's with slower CPU's and less RAM. Apples and oranges. Lockhart just seems to mainly be lower in TF with the rest pretty much on par with the high end Sony and MS console.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
First, he says that the Gap between the GPU of PS5 and XSX will show its differences and then he says, GPU won't the most important feature ?!
Yeah sure Tom.

Those statements aren't mutually exclusive. A gap in GPU power between products can be noticeable whilst not holding back developers from creating what they want to create.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Theoretically they can build a slower SSD on PCie Gen 3 into Lockhart to make it cheaper. With a lower resolution, you also don't need to stream 4K textures which needs a lot of bandwidth and asset quality can be turned down a notch. I would love for Lockhart to reach the magical $299 price point. And no, that won't hold back next gen at all. Textures are a thing that can be easily scaled.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
If the only difference btw XSX and Lockhart ends up being a drop in resolution due to the less powerful GPU then it could very well be a good option for many at launch.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,128
Both statements can be true.

Tflops on gpu will not limit the generation specially on a device aiming at a lower resolution, and the gpu that's better than the other one will have a performance advantage.

Bingo. And obviously there may be some advantages with having a faster SSD...but neither difference will anyway be transformative. Transformative will be next gen versus this largely because of SSD and CPU differences, which were the main bottlenecks this gen.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
And others before you Tom .Basically anyone with even a little amount of technical knowledge.
This guy...
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,355
If GPU is only difference I don't see how Lockhart could be that much cheaper than Series X. If Series X is 499$ I don't see how Lockhart could be $299 with just GPU being the difference (without taking big loss with every sold Lockhart) but then again at $399 Lockhart makes little sense. I guess we shall see.
 

Mistermetz

Member
Jun 17, 2018
290
If Lockhart is sufficient for FullHD resolution and some more advanced effects than current gen it's a day 1 purchase for me. Dont want to upgrade to a 4K TV anyways for at least 5 more years.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,597
Sadly I don't think SSD's will make such a difference for third parties, requiring a SSD on PC would be suicide.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
A difference being noticeable does not mean that it holds anything back. Visual differences between XSX and Lockhart would be very noticeable, but it doesn't mean that the game on XSX is not as much as it could have been.

Exactly. The graphics and performances between PS4 and XB1 would often have noticeable differences, but the games were still virtually the same. Differences between XSX/PS5/Lockhart won't be as crazy as between X360/Wii or PS4/Switch for example, but they will be visible for anybody looking at both versions. It's just that the complexity and scope of games won't change. A GTA VI won't have a smaller open world, less vehicles or fewer missions on the different consoles, not it will skip Lockhart because it can't handle it. It will only offer graphics and performance differences between the various hardwares. The point of these tweets is that these SSDs and CPUs will allow devs to create games of unprecedented scope and complexity, which definitely outweighs the stronger GPUs' benefits (aside from raytracing, which is likewise a huge addition). But make no mistake, an average third party will look best on XSX due to the beefiest GPU, then PS5 and Lockhart respectively.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
If there was one thing I could make people un-know, it might be this whole tech specs dance. Nobody knows what they're talking about and everyone is talking about it and getting into fights over it. It absolutely kills and colors all excitement I could personally have about new machine coverage. Pointless drivel, most of the time.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
4TFs ain't getting the price down to $399. They have to be cost saving elsewhere, surely.

Microsoft could be implementing a loss-leader strategy. They're definitely in the position to do so and, considering a lot of their strategy so far has been based around promoting services and the Xbox eco-system over the individual consoles, it would make sense for them to do so.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
I think we need to see 'how much' less RAM, and also how the CPU and GPU are clocked.

SSDs and RAM are two sides of the data coin. If potential data access in a given timeframe is lower on Lockhart because of RAM differences, then, to whatever extent a game leans on data that isn't scalable with resolution will determine how different the landscape is vs if XSX were on its own.

Sadly I don't think SSD's will make such a difference for third parties, requiring a SSD on PC would be suicide.

A certain amount of what SSDs bring to the table may be offset by more RAM (and a longer load) on PC. On the other hand if games lean in on unpredictable access to on-disc data, that offset might be trickier.

That is - depending on usage, SSDs may make a much bigger difference on RAM-limited consoles than on PC.
 

Sems4arsenal

Member
Apr 7, 2019
3,627
Microsoft could be implementing a loss-leader strategy. They're definitely in the position to do so and, considering a lot of their strategy so far has been based around promoting services and the Xbox eco-system over the individual consoles, it would make sense for them to do so.

Eating losses on two SKUs would be very bold.
 

Deeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
966
United States
I mean this has been the sentiment from day one. I've heard tons of devs talk about how transformative the CPU + SSD is.

The CPU + SSD+ RAM is a huge accelerated pipeline that's basically like the autobahn for the Ferrari GPU.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,597
A certain amount of what SSDs bring to the table may be offset by more RAM (and a longer load) on PC. On the other hand if games lean in on unpredictable access to on-disc data, that offset might be trickier.

That is - depending on usage, SSDs may make a much bigger difference on RAM-limited consoles than on PC.
Pretty sure the transition would be slow. like 2021 will have 1 game which requires a SSD, 2022 will have 3 games, 2023 will have 7 games and so on.

Yeah. That's why I think Sony is pushing the SSD so much, their studios can use it fully (if PS4 games are over after Tsushima).